dmorley21

Nobody knows what the new book entails. Recommending what to buy next is a fool's errand. Based on the FOMO box, it seems like Myrmourns are pretty good. And they're cheap. So buy those. I'm interested in people's thoughts on the new Incarnate. Not sure if everyone has seen the rules, but in essence it's a 400 point monster that starts at level 2 and instead of being slain, it can go down a level (or up if it eats an endless spell) at the end of combat. It bonds with a non-unique hero, grants re-roll charges and runs to everybody (you and your opponent) within a certain range (12" at max) and if you use all out attack on it, it grants all out attack to nearby friendly units. In addition, it's a monster (has the keyword). It moves 12", flies, and has two attack profiles: 1", 7-9 attacks, 3+, 3+, -2, 2 damage 2", 2-4 attacks, 3+, 2+, -3, 4 damage At first blush, it's the monster we always wished we had. If your bonded hero dies, it goes wild and can and will attack your own units. This is problematic if you're in a fight with it and another one of your units. However, until the new book drops, Emerald Host is a way of preventing this from happening (this matters to me as I'm in a GT in May that won't use the new book unless it drops in April). It also prevents you from using other allies. Worth noting, Nagash is not an ally. I've currently got two lists I'm spitballing: Nagash / Scriptor Mortis (general, PotFW) / Incarnate / 10 Chainrasp / 5 Hexwraiths / 6 Spirit Hosts or Guardian of Souls (general, PotFW) / Reikenor / Spirit Torment / Incarnate / Cogs / 30 Reapers / 5 Hexwraiths / 9 Spirit Hosts/ 8 Myrmourns The Scriptor Mortis is an interesting take as it's a bit more survivable than our other basic heroes. Plus it can just do its thing and hide in the backfield while it's Incarnate rampages along with Nagash. The second list is much more balanced. Both seem like a lot of fun to play - I'm bummed the darn Incarnate is currently trapped in an expensive terrain box, even if the terrain looks awesome. Hard to justify when there's a new book around the corner.

It’s also worth noting that with each 3.0 book there were a lot of people who thought the book was rather weak/bad. Even Stormcast players! So expect that when the new book drops. Each book though, with time, ended up being solid IMO (and per tournament results, if you play those like me).

The Bonesplitterz subfaction got hit hard and players of that army are fair to be upset... otherwise I disagree with you. SCE has some overpowered warscrolls: Stromdrake Guard, Fulminators, and Longstrikes. The latter being overpowered mainly due to faction rule and Fulminators have counterplay. They have a ton of warscrolls, so of course there's some duds (Vanquishers, step right up), but overall, it's a really deep book. Recently I've seen Annihilator, Vindictor, and Chariot lists do really well. Ironjawz are in a good place. So is Big Waagh. Kruleboyz aren't but most people who play them say they just need a points adjustment and Hobgrots to be battleline - they like the army mechanics. People were down on Nurgle, but it's been a really solid book that has done well since it came out. Idoneth has not lost a step besides eel spam lists, and Fyreslayers have been doing better than people expected at tournaments. Anecdotally, my buddy has been doing really well with them in more casual play. Also, there's been some recent results from Nighthaunt doing well without Nagash or the Mega-Gargant. Tom Lyons just went 3-1-1 at Adepticon while somebody else (I need to find her name/Twitter username) just won a GT going 4-1 with Nighthaunt.

Arena of Shades has gotten more coverage than Fury of the Deep.

I still think Nagash lists for Nighthaunt have juice until the new book arrives. I also think Incarnate lists could be pretty strong. I’m playing in a GT on May 14/15 that is not allowing new rules after April 28. So I think I’ll be choosing between one of those list types.

Gotta say, some of you had crazy unrealistic expectations. We knew the Scriptor Mortis and Crossboos. If you expected more than what they showed, you haven’t been following the previews. Also, the trend has been for warscrolls to be simplified and lose some abilities. I’m not surprised to see Bladegheists and the Spirit Torment lose some abilities. My biggest concern is that Myrmourns and to a lesser extent Crossboos did not go to 2 wounds. Those are tiny units to be at 1 wound a pop. I’m sure there will be synergies in the books. All of the 3.0 books have had good stuff in them.

The idea would be that it's no longer unmodified. So Cogs can modify it. Death Riders could. The unique command ability could guarantee one. Then other units could give charge boosts. Neither here nor there though; we're getting new warscrolls Saturday and a whole new book likely next month.

Had I continued, I would've added once per game Spectral Commands like Stormcast Holy Commands. One would've been a once per game Spectral Summons and another would've been a once per game ability to replace a charge roll with an unmodified 10".

I've never been into the bravery shenanigans with Nighthaunt - I'm much more into the Wave of Terror and Legion of Grief builds. I started a Google Doc with changes I'd make to the army... but with the new book on the way and life getting busy I doubt I'll add much more. But here were what I had so far: Battle Traits Deathless Spirits Roll a dice each time you allocate a wound or mortal wound to a friendly Nighthaunt model from a unit wholly within 12” of a friendly Nighthaunt hero or wholly within 18” of your general or a friendly Nighthaunt totem. On a 6+, that wound or mortal wound is negated. Aura of Dread Subtract 1 from the Bravery characteristic of enemy units while they are within 6” of 1 friendly Nighthaunt unit. Subtract 2 from the Bravery characteristic while they are within 6” of 2 friendly Nighthaunt units. Legions of Grief and Spectral Hunters You must decide if your army will be a Legions of Grief army or a Spectral Hunters Army. Record your choice on your army roster. All Nighthaunt units in a Legions of Grief army gain the Legions of Grief keyword. All Nighthaunt units in a Spectral Hunters army gain the Spectral Hunters keyword. Legions of Grief After territories have been chosen but before armies are set up, you can pick up to 1 point on the battlefield within your territory and 1 point within your opponent’s territory to be Lanterns of Grief. Each Lantern of Grief must be more than 1” from all terrain features and objectives. Instead of setting up Nighthaunt Legions of Grief units on the battlefield before the battle begins, you can place it to one side and say that it is set up in the underworld as a reserve unit. You can set up 1 reserve unit in the underworld for each Nighthaunt Legions of Grief unit you already have set up on the battlefield. At the end of any of your movement phases, you can set up 1 or more of these units wholly within 12” of a Lantern of Grief and more than 9” from all enemy units. At the start of the fourth battle round, reserve units that are still in the grave are destroyed. In addition, if a Nighthaunt Legions of Grief unit is wholly within 12” of a Lantern of Grief, it can heal D3 wounds or return an amount of models with a combined wounds characteristic equal to or less than the D3 roll. Also, add 1 to Deathless Spirits Rolls while a friendly Nighthaunt Legions of Grief unit is wholly within 12” of a Lantern of Grief. Spectral Hunters If you make a charge roll of 10+ for a friendly Spectral Hunters Nighthaunt unit, it can fight immediately after you complete the charge move. This does not stop the same unit from being picked to fight in the combat phase of the same turn. Deathly Processions You can pick 1 of the following subfactions for your army (core rules, 27.2.1). All Nighthaunt units in your army gain the keyword of the subfaction you picked, and you can use the allegiance abilities for that subfaction. If a unit already has a different subfaction keyword on its warscroll, it cannot gain another one. This does not preclude you from including the unit in your army, but you cannot use the allegiance abilities for its subfaction. The Emerald Host After each army finishes deploying, choose an enemy unit on the battlefield. Roll a dice for that unit at the beginning of each battle round. If the roll is equal to or less than the battle round number, reduce that unit’s save characteristic by a number equal to the current battle round. If the roll is not equal to or less than the battle round number, reduce that unit’s save characteristic by 1. Reikenor’s Condemned Each friendly Reikenor’s Condemned wizard can elect to deal D3 mortals to itself at the beginning of the hero phase. If it does, it can add that value to its casting rolls. Myrmourn Banshees are battleline. The Craven Host Craven Host units can retreat and charge or shoot. Craventhrone Guard are battleline. Death Riders Death Riders units with mounts gain +1 to charge. In addition, if they are Spectral Hunters, the Spectral Hunters ability is activated on a 9+. Black Coaches are battleline. The Sorrowmourn Choir The Deathless Spirits ability is activated on a 5+ for Dreadscythe Harridans and Myrmourn Banshees. Dreadscythe Harridans are battleline. Execution Horde At the beginning of each battle round, select an enemy unit. Friendly Execution Horde attacks against that unit are +1 to hit and +1 to wound.

I haven't seen this, but another one/game designer has been posting occasional pictures of building and playing Nighthaunt this winter, so your mileage may vary.

Yeah I had just built 9 Spirit Hosts too; however as others have said this was expected. All re-rolls are going away in 3rd. And as someone who once ran 60 Reapers, that’s probably for the best in terms of game speed. Not a wizard. That would be keyworded.

A couple initial thoughts from what we’ve seen of warscrolls: Ethereal and wholly within bubbles are staying the same. But I’m guessing the army is going to play fast seeing our slow units got bumped to 8”. Chainghasts might actually see play now. The Scriptor getting bodyguard makes it more usable, but still hard to justify when it doesn’t do anything against 4 armies in the game.

So the Spirit Torment and Chainghasts now move 8”. Spirit Torment lost re-roll 1s with no replacement, but does better healing and more consistent damage in melee. Chainghasts now have a buff aura of +1 to hit as long as there’s a Spirit Torment on the field somewhere. The Scriptor gets ghosts to bodyguard it.

Ted Lasso disagrees. Anyway, I’m of the mind that we got to see the book first. I saw enough initial pushback on Soulblight, Stormcast, Ironjawz, Nurgle, and Fyreslayers to know that these books need to be taken as a whole. Looking at little revealed bits of info from select warscrolls just doesn’t tell you enough. We’ll know more once the new warscrolls in the box are revealed and then obviously will have to wait for the book for the whole picture.

I've been expecting to lose Spectral Summons. Amongst the 3.0 books so far, I believe only Fyreslayers have kept an army wide command ability. I am happy to read the description and hear that it looks like they'll keep movement shenanigans as a part of Nighthaunt. While I've been underwhelmed by the revealed rules of the new stuff just like everyone else, I remain optimistic because I think the 3.0 books have been really good. They all have a distinct playstyle that matches their lore and I think even the lower end of books (Fyreslayers/Kruleboyz) are 3-2 armies. I'm excited and hopeful to see what Nighthaunt end up looking like once we have the new book in front of us.

@Boggler I agree with you that Olynder is a bit of a trap if you take her with Nagash. Seems it should work, but it just doesn’t. Hope it goes well!

@Boggler I never played with old Nagash as I don’t play other Death armies, so I can’t really compare though I did hear he was weakened. I’m one of those 3-2 finishes with Nagash/NH at Brewhammer in the beginning of February. With the new rules from the latest battlescroll, one of my losses would have been a win most likely as I had to chew through 3 units of Pink Horrors. I think a Nagash/NH list is a 3-2/4-1 list. There’s lists it just loses to, but as far as Nighthaunt go that’s still really strong. My biggest issue with Hand of Dust is spending the extra points for the spell portal. I just haven’t been able to justify that, as any list with Nagash needs bodies. I also haven’t gotten any IRL games in since that event I went to - been busy. Gotten a few in on TTS.

Gotta disagree here. I’ve played Nagash/Nighthaunt 10 times, and think Nagash is just about right for his points. I think your issue is going for Hand of Dust. In 10 games, I’ve never used it. With Reaping Scythe, Arcane Bolt, and at times Soul Cage; Nagash is just an absolute beat stick. I haven’t used him against a Mega-Gargant yet, but he’s run over everything I’ve thrown him against (except for one set of bad rolls versus a min unit of blightkings). He also is such a threat that he forces your opponent into bad positions often, which any regular NH player has learned to take advantage of. There’s a reason a Nagash NH list made it into the top 8 at LVO. It’s definitely a powerful list as long as NH spells remain the same.

I agree with this, though I think it’ll see a lot of casual play. Unlike, say the Lord Executioner, it has a fun ability with high damage spike/potential. Still don’t see it being a fixture of most lists, and that’s fine. NH have plenty of small heroes. Will be more interesting to see the other warscrolls in the dual box.

One guess: there will be a subfaction or an artefact that subtracts 1 from judgment rolls.

I think the new hero’s rule is really fun and will be great for PtG, narrative games, or casual games. Its damage spike is unlike anything NH have ever had, which is promising. I don’t think it’s reliable enough for tournaments at first blush, but that’s fine as long as there’s other stuff that is. I don’t think it’ll be a mainstay, but it’ll be a fun add from time to time.

Fury of the Deep had two preview articles before it went up for pre-order. One was December 27th, and the other was January 7th; it then went on pre-order on January 9th. Based on that, I'd expect one more article before the pre-order for Arena of Shades.

I've only played them once and had Nagash, but my recommendation would be to try to pin them or feed them screens to prevent them from scoring objectives. Expecting we'll be getting new rules (new warscrolls from the boxset soon), so really talking strategy too much is a bit moot at the moment.

@Drujeful The problem with leaning into anti-bravery stuff is that it’s too good against Destruction, too bad against Chaos and Death, and works as intended against most order. Just not something that can be balanced to make for fun games IMO. @EnixLHQ Like already noted, it’s just 1 hero and 5 archers in the box.

Ha, that’s cool to note on being the only 3-2 in Feb. Nagash lists will just take reps; I don’t think any companion is a trap. It’s definitely a list that takes considerable thought. With the new book on the way, it’s also kind of a bummer to play those lists as I’m sure the spell lore will change… and that’s what makes Nagash so good. Reaping Scythe/Soul Cage/Shademist/Lifestealer… just so good for him. I’d hazard that there’s really good lists with him and Spirit Hosts. There might even be synergy with Myrmourns. And I still want to try a 30 Reaper deathstar with him. As for Harridans, they’re honestly just plain good. People sleep on them way too much IMO. The 1” is a nuisance, but I can honeycomb them to get most of the models in the fight often enough. Also, they’re often in multi-engagements, which helps getting the most out of them. I just wish they were battleline.