IndigoGirls

I hadn't considered the possibility of failed battleshock on them. I think I'd really only be scared if I lost 3+ in one round. Then again, I'll have a bonus command point for battleshock test immunity should things go south. Part of me wants to go so far as to run a squad of 9 as a huge screening unit. In my mind they would... 1. Occupy a huge amount of real estate 2. Be a considerable anvil 3. Increase the effective range of Fierce Rivals The problem is, I don't feel like Beast Hammer has a unit you really want to screen. They could screen a butcher or thundertusk. Butcher's cauldron doesn't hit them and taking a thundertusk is a whole lot of points, really limiting what else you can fit in the battalion. @heywoah_twitch I came up with a Beast Hammer list very similar to the one you posted previously (vs Archaon). I made a few swaps and ultimately dropped the extra command point. When you played, did you feel like you needed to start the game with +2 command points? What was your general goal with the command points? Re-rolling charges and the occasional unfortunate battleshock test?

Has anyone played around with the Eurlbad Battalion at all? At 170pts it is significantly cheaper than Beast Hammer and appears to offer some decent punch. Also, for those of you who have used Beast Hammer, has anyone used units of 6 pigs? I believe the expected damage on pigs is less than Mournfang but a squad of 6 pigs seems like solid chaff (30 wounds on a 4+ at 280pts ?).

@Freejack02 thanks so much for the math help! It's not my speciality ? you were right in the end! I think my tl;dr still stands though!

Apologizes, my math was a little off the mark and hastily done. I took the time to do the correct math, which is as simple as 1 minus the probability of failure (1/3) times the probability of failure (1/3). In the end your 3+ rerolling 1s ignoring modifiers passes 8/9 times or 88.88% of the time. My bad on communicating it to be 1/12, it's actually 1 out of 9 to wounds will not be saved. I think the two options are simply different but equally viable. Against rend of (-2) /(-3) the amulet is favorable. Against (-) and (-1) rend it is certainly worse. However, the opportunity cost of an artifact and trait cannot be denied. In taking something like Warsinger, you increase your charge probabilities (for more than just the general), which is significant. It also frees up Oaken Armor for another character (relevant to lists with a Durthu and TLA). I brought up the amulet as a lesser discussed artifact that's worth a look. Also, I felt like there wasn't a ton of conversation around realm artifacts on the big trees. tl;dr ethereal amulet - strong against high rend threats, allows more flexibility weak against hordes with low or no rend gnarled warrior and oaken armor - strong against hordes with low or no rend weak against high rend threats, limited flexibility

Two things... First, on the topic of artifacts, I can't help but think the ethereal amulet is an underrepresented choice on TLA. I'm a fan of 3+ re-roll 1s ignore all modifiers. To do the exact math, you will let through more (-) rend and (-1) rend attacks (as compared to 2+ re-roll 1s ignore rend -1) but you're still only taking a wound 1 out of every 12 that gets through and you now have access to a different general trait. That gives the TLA some interesting choices besides Gnarled Warrior. Personally, I've been enjoying taking the amulet and warsinger. My spellcaster heroes (wraith and wych) are taking artifacts to boost their spell casting, as we don't have any natural +s to cast, I think those items really shine on the little guys. Especially wraith who is already fairly sticky with LOS and Wyldwood proximity for -2 to hit from range. Now, once a round lens is still powerful for soaking up spell damage that goes off and I still think we will see a lot of it. Second, has anyone considered Overgrown Wilderness combined with Dreadwood? I see Ambush as a great option (for certain scenarios/matches) where a small hero can ambush to an objective with acorn and plant it. In that way, only flyers can get at them and you've teleported to an objective immediately while putting down a piece of LOS blocking terrain. In my opinion, Overgrown Wilderness is a powerful boost for Sylvaneth as you get to control the when and where. With smart placement you should be able to reduce what your opponent's options. That being said, messing up the placement now comes with a line of sight cost. But does it really? I usually have trouble fitting it in but Treesong offers forgiveness for poor wood placement plus the ability to move LOS terrain around. It feels stronger now than previously.

Has anyone considered foregoing magic completely? I'm not a fan of missing out on a phase of the game but BCR isn't anything special when it comes to casting... Also is a single huskard on thundertusk that negative? Their burst potential is surely worth something. I admit the unit may not make its points back but I still see it as a valuable asset. I made this list very quickly but just said ****** it, no magic I want my once (or occasionally more) 6 mortal wound character execute. The list clearly has no anvil or butcher, sadly. I took a 4 pack of mournfang for a unit with bigger punch potential. The 2 pack is to fill out battleline (alternative would be hunter as general and a squad of cats, which might have more uses, but I doubt it). Looking for some thoughts overall for including a thundertusk in a Braggoth's. I saw @heywoah_twitch comments on the unit earlier and largely agree that a single thundertusk is sketchy. That being said, I wonder if others have strong feelings on this controversial unit.

After seeing your artifact choices I thought to myself, "aren't we limited to one realm artifact regardless of how many we have access to?" Then I flipped open the Malign Sorc book and saw no such rule. Since learning this I haven't had the time but any other appetizing realms with multiple useful artifacts?

Good investigation! Perhaps I'll go back to how you've been playing it. I was ignoring the change until my play partner brought it up and thought the citadel wood change would affect wyldwoods. At that point I switched over and started using the new rule.

@Kaylethia I've been playing it with the citadel wood rules as the wyldwood warscroll say a wyldwood consists of 1-3 citadel woods. I see it going either way I've just taken it as a wyldwood is a combination of citadel woods. Not sure if there is an official rule to help clarify this. Pulling info from another scroll feels wrong.

@Lanoss Don't be gutted by your 6 bow hunters! I agree with @ppetford I think they still have legitimate uses! As he already said, they are great for objective holding while applying pressure from range. I already posted thoughts earlier on the new LOS rule combined with their pretty sketchy hit rolls. I'll re-post my thoughts here. 1. I've got a vital enemy hero low on hp but not dead I'm happy to shoot everything into them with bows to finish the job. 2. They help influence and predict enemy movement. If you have a pure melee army (or very limited shooting) then enemy heroes can (basically) run around and not worry about LOS. With bows, the enemy has to think about the placement of their hero and your 30" snipers. 3. They help cripple certain behemoths. Example, shooting into a maw'krusha to bring down its move characteristic is a good use of their time. Shooting into a thundertusk to reduce its mortal wound output is a good use of time. The list goes on. 4. They can clear objectives/units that are otherwise a pain to close out on. Lets say it's a mirror match and the enemy is holding an objective with 5 spite revs. I'm happy to take my bows and try to shoot them off to stop scoring on that point. Or if I'm playing against a Slann who can teleport around the board, I like the thought of being able to hit him almost wherever he runs. I could continue this list but I think my point is clear. Are they the small hero killers they used to be? Probably not. Do they still fulfill some situationally vital roles? I'd like to think that they do. Generally, I don't think I'll include the bows in my list (my list simply needs more damage than they can provide) but I can see myself bringing in 3 with Alarielle in certain match ups. Kurnoth bow hunters were the model that made me fall in love with Sylvaneth (not Scythes or Swords) so maybe I'm biased but those are my thoughts P.S. IF your bows aren't painted up, it is very easy to remove just their arms and swap out for a melee weapon. Pick up some debonder (I prefer bob smith industries), apply a solid amount to the army joint, wait ~5-10 minutes, take your exacto knife working it into the armpit groove, and give it a good wiggle. If they don't pop the first time repeat the steps and eventually they will come off. Worked like a charm for me but three of mine were only primed (I still have some kurnoths with bows).

@Richelieu interesting experience perspective and thank you for the opinion! To add a different gaming ideology (TCGs) I see Alarielle in Dreadwood as similar an important piece of a midrange deck (same as the new branchwraith). She has to be one of Sylvaneth's most point efficient models, additionally she allows the Dreadwood player flexibility to pick any option from the table. In an all-comers list that flexibility seems key. I'm happy to see that you think she has a place in the battalion, at this point I just need to keep playing my list against different armies and refine it if problems creep up.

Thank you... it seems fairly obvious that you choose one weapon going into the battle and that's what she is stuck with. Whether or not you can change between tournament rounds I've never considered. Out of curiosity, in your Dreadwood experience do you drop the TLA and go all in on the ambush (bunch of kurnoths, durthu, and drycha)? I really want to rock Alarielle in Dreadwood but am starting to think that may not be ideal...

The two getting the most love are Gnarlroot and Dreadwood, then to a lesser extent Harvestboon. All of them seem to be having success. In your variant of Dreadwood are you not taking TLA? Or are you taking 6 hunters, Drycha, Durthu, TLA? 9 hunters plus the other two prohibits you from taking TLA. Do you find she does that many mortal wounds? Which of her ranged weapons do you take? I've always favored the Swarm.

@Kimbo I too love kurnoth hunters, they're a staple in many Sylvaneth lists. Buy them, love them, and rock them. My current list is using 9 kurnoth hunters, so 600 pts in hunters. If you have the start collecting and really love your kurnoth hunters, you could add on two boxes of hunters and a box of tree/spite revenants. Army would consist of... TLA Branchwych 10 x dryads 5 x Revenants 3 x Kurnoth Hunters 3 x Kurnoth Hunters

The change is in GBH18, I believe someone posted the exact change wording earlier in the forum. I believe the wording is the same as suffocating gravetide only units can't be the targets of attacks (whereas gravetide counts as cover). 1. It's hard to recommend where you should go for your 1k army, you have a lot of options with Syvlaneth. My suggestion would be find a unit you love the look, rules, and lore of and go from there. If that unit is Drycha or maybe kurnoth hunters, add them to your Start Collecting box and fill out points from there. Your only required purchase will be a second battleline unit. Sylvaneth can take dryads, tree revenenats, or spite revenants. All of them are legitimate choices in their own way (semi-exception, spite revs are not very impressive but they are cheap on points and can give you access to outcast and dreadwood battalions). Though it is not required to play the army you should buy a Sylvaneth Wyldwood (3 x citadel woods). I'm sure you could play the army without the woods but it would not be very enjoyable/defeats the purpose of the army. My personal choice would be another box of dryads and drycha. That would put you 960 pts, give you a cool centerpiece character, two battleline unites, a general, and a little caster. It also requires minimal money investment (a bit more than a second start collecting box but I think drycha is a very cool model). 2. Tactics depend on who you are playing and what you are bringing to the table so it's hard to give advice here. Before you invest in the army I would strongly suggest watching some battle reports on Youtube for Sylvaneth. I would watch multiple videos so you can see the different unit choices in action.

What do folks think of ethereal amulet on TLA? 3+, ignore rend (can't think of a situation where he can get +1 to save anymore), re-rolling 1s. Seems like a better version of gnarled warrior.

I like your new version more, though you won't be able to tell me how the battalion plays! My only thought on this new list would be maybe drop the second branchwraith and use the 30 points you're floating to upgrade a dryad group to 20. That can be your main anvil. Or, break out a unit of tree revs for sneaky distractions/objective grabbing. I love the idea of turtling behind a bunch of woods and picking people off! My only conern personally is the placement rules for woods are rather restrictive making mass woods tough to pull off. Also, with the new line of sight stuff you won't be able to shoot at things that are behind woods unless the woods aren't blocking your view of them. If you really want to slow people down, I would suggest taking the soulsnare shackles! Those are also better than floating 30 pts if you don't want to drop the second wraith.

From my few games with the wraith summoning, people just left her alone. In my games I've turtled her in a corner behind a wood where she just tries to summon every turn. Since she is covered by the wood and often has 10 dryads around her no one has gone near her. The wraith is miserable in combat and in the one game where I tried to advance her up and summon she just fell apart. I really like the geminids and you'd have to lose that and the palisade to afford cogs so maybe not? It's tough, I see woods as accomplishing a lot of that spell. I say just give the pallisade a go.

I think this list is rock solid. You certainly do NOT need to use a battalion and this list is a great example of why that's the case. My only concerns are... 1. Why take Circlet on the Branchwraith? I think that Ranu's Lamentiri is a much better alternative. That +1 to cast is huge for getting dryads out (which is why I assume you took her). The increased spell range really doesn't do much for that spell other than minor flexibility. 2. What's your game plan for the Palisade? I think it's an awesome spell but our woods (with the new rules) serve a similar purpose. Unless you are trying to use the blind effect offensively on the opponent, but I'm not sure how well that will work. It's only 30 points but you could take swords/shackles or drop the geminids for something like cogs or another 60pt spell. Hope these help! I think the list is very solid and don't worry about the battalions. If you're interested in some of the more talked about ones just go through this thread earlier. A lot of talk around Gnarlroot and Dreadwood. Little talk on Harvestboon as well.

@Deja vu I'm having trouble quoting you're post... the list won't add but that's no big deal. First, let me know how the Heartwood plays! I've never considered running it but am curious about how it plays. Second, I worry about your lack of command ability spending. You have two battalions so three command points to start. You can use them through the generic rules but wouldn't a TLA add a whole lot of value? In general, I think TLA is a most for Sylvaneth lists, he offers so much utility. Third, I worry about the number of endless spells in your list (160 pts is a lot). You only have two spells a turn with this list (assuming you don't get off balewind or cogs) and I assume you want to use both of those caster's unique spells? You don't have any plus to cast so getting off cogs and balewind may be a challenge in its own right, never mind if your opponent tries to deny. Final thoughts, I'd consider dropping the Seed of Rebirth and going for Ranu's Lamentiri. I think you can basically throw your branchwraith in a corner with a wood and just cast the summon dryads over and over and not worry about her getting picked off. Dryads will protect her against most deep strikes and the next turn they can move to a more useful location. Then she also gets +1 to cast or +2 on her Sylvaneth spell. Why so many bow hunters? What I'm asking is what is your game plan? You are very low on damage with all the bows, if your hope is to grind out the opponent from range and hinder their ability to get to you then bows would probably be good. However, if you are looking at them to be a significant source of damage I'd look to swords or scythes personally. Hope this helps! Let me know how the battalion works

Endless spells seem hard to pull off effectively in a lot of cases. However, I also think they are the most likely thing to stick around in the tournament scene from the Malign Sorcery addition. Them or the realm specific artifacts. Realm artifacts seem fair since they help armies with poor artifact selection without taking away from armies with good artifact selection. I play BCR as well and I love that I can take a much better artifact now instead of my relatively weak tome options.

What did you think of the gnarlroot abundance of casts? Who was your target for hand of glory? Did the tournament use specific realm rules/realm artifacts/endless spells?

Unfortunately, I don't think it is that simple. I haven't crunched the numbers but Durthu plus 3 x Hunters turn 1 damage may be greater than Alarielle's (I wouldn't be surprised if it is, especially if the opponent does not have a sizable unit that needs to be killed to swing the game in your favor). When using the Dreadwood's ambush ability that turn 1 damage matters (amplified further if you can swing the double turn). I don't plan on replacing her, I'm happy with how my list performed and want to iron out my ability to play it to its potential. What I'm looking for is people to weigh in on whether or not they felt like Dreadwood was tense to play. Setting up and executing the ambush was difficult, any advice on making it feel less so is my aim.

General question for the Dreadwood players out there, I got my first taste of a Dreadwood game yesterday and everything felt good but also like I was walking on the edge of a razor... Alarielle is sweet and fairly costed now but my list felt like it had just enough hitting power. My offense on turn one was Alarielle, 6 Scythe Kurnoths, a TLA, Branchwych, and multiple Spite Rev squads. Spite Revs did almost no damage (as I expected, more for some bravery shenanigans and objective control), TLA thankfully made his hits and wounds but my d6 damage rolls were a hot mess, Alarielle exploited a favorable matchup against a horde unit which she promptly took off the table, and Kurnoth's did everything I hoped for, but all of it was soo close. Is this a typical feeling on the ambush? Thank goodness I had +3 to charge with cogs and warsinger otherwise I would have missed some key charge rolls. Just hoping someone familiar with the battalion could weigh in. Overall, I had a ton of fun playing it but man was it stressful! I'm wondering if a Durthu and 3 more Kurnoths would outclass Alarielle, or Drycha and Kurnoths etc. The one nice thing was Alarielle dropped in support troops for turn two as did my branchwraith, so I had a lot of board presence.

This list seems fine to me, I think the only issue that you might see is woods restricting how your Stormcast can move and shoot. With how citadel woods work now those Ballista could have some troubles firing as desired. Also, in general the woods you set up are going to be weird with your Allegiance set to Order and not Sylvaneth. All the unit choices are solid otherwise.