IndigoGirls

I used bow hunters in my old book list and they've only gotten better so this does not surprise me. I'm also not surprised they were an MVP unit for you. However my problems with bow hunters are... 1. their consistency, aka extremely variable 2. once they're locked into combat their effectiveness is greatly reduced Of the above points, 1 is the deal breaker for me. Points of failure include 2 attacks per model (very low) hitting on 3s, mostly 4s, or 5s (based on lookout sir and leader differences). You will miss a lot of shots. Wounds on 3s is fine, -1 rend is fantastic, but d3 damage is not where I want to be. Given how few shots will actually wound, you can easily roll 1 damage. Many times you won't connect and even if you do the damage is unpredictable. Sadly bow hunters don't put out a lot of damage so they aren't great for deleting units or removing screens (unless they're gunning down a small 1 wound squad). They don't receive buffs well (other than re roll 1s, which doesn't increase max output and due to the low number of attacks doesn't re roll that many dice so it doesn't help even their damage curve much either). BUT when the stars align they feel like absolute beasts because they have high max potential. I'm happy to see people use them because they are my favorite kurnoth sculpts but Im still not sold on them outside of skewed lists in team tournaments. In friendly games, I use them. At a 5 game tournament, Id leave them on the shelf (edit: or just bring them and realize certain games they'll fail you. Honestly just have fun. Obnoxious attitude in my original post).

Two things here, I don't know if a TLA belongs in every list BUT it's one of my favorite Sylvaneth units. I think the real problem with the TLA is you expect it to do damage because it's this huge tree. I expect my TLA to do 0 damage a turn. Any damage he puts out is the cherry on top. What the TLA is to me is 1 - guaranteed woods 2 - an anvil/distraction 3 - a caster 4 - sometimes a useful CA (mystic shield on himself/Dryads/Drycha/charging kurnoths is useful usually once a game). For me where the TLA shines is throwing him at objective holding hordes before they reach an objective. For instance throwing him into 40 stabbas or 30 Dryads. Without rend those blobs will do almost no damage to him (with re-roll 1s up). He doesn't do much damage back but keeping them off objectives is the name of the game and there he shines. Even more choppy units that don't have rend (horrors) aren't super scary when you're a 3+ reroll 1s. I take him in Dreadwood so he's also -1 to wound. Maybe drop him from your list or try using him as a great anvil against certain units. Also if you give him Regrowth he becomes rather self sufficient. Also I 100% agree the tree revs would do more good for you in your list then Palisades + spites.

I think what is optimal is largely based on the situation. That said, we should analyze what kurnoth hunters are good at and what they are bad at. For this review I will not incorporate bow hunters as they differ greatly from the melee variants. Pros: durable, medium damage, consistent, self sufficient Cons: slow, low model count We can shore up their weaknesses, lean into their strengths, or a little bit of both. TLA - improves their movement (via woods), improves their durability on the charge (command ability). Costs ~1.25 hunter units. Nice way to get them to move around better and kurnoths in terrain are much stronger than kurnoths in the open. Wraith - improves movement (can cast woods or spiteswarm, etc.) OR improves the bodies issue (summon dryads). Costs ~0.5 hunter units. Flexible army addition, doesn't do a ton for kurnoths but can help with the bodies issue or their movement (or both with multiple casts). Archie - improves kurnoth consistency (re-roll 1s), improves max damage output (command ability). Costs 0.5 hunter units. Nice piece to force multiple kurnoths or other units. However, spending 1 cp to add 3 attacks to a unit is pretty underwhelming. Archie encourages larger blocks of kurnoths to make the most of the CA. Drycha - improves movement (can cast woods or spiteswarm). Costs ~1.5 hunter units. Drycha is going to be a replacement for kurnoths. She is a flexible unit (ranged damage, melee damage, caster, fast). Strictly speaking I prefer 1.5 hunter units to Drycha; unless you build around Drycha. Dryads - solves the bodies issue. Costs 0.5 - ~1.5 hunter units. Relatively durable and cost effecient. Strictly going to replace kurnoths. If you need to contest objectives you'll probably be using these (or some form of the more expensive revs). Outcast battalion - will get you more CPs, another artifact, and lower your drops. No direct impact on your hunters but CPs and artifacts can boost them in interesting ways. None of what I wrote above explains how you replace hunters and I think that's important. It's great to compare units but what matters even more is your game plan. Your game plan typically starts with the glade you choose and that immediately changes how hunters behave. Example, if you take Dreadwood your hunters movement problem is solved. If you take Gnarlroot you improve their durability. To give a meaningful answer on this theoretical exercise we need more info. 'Optimal' shifts based on your plan, the scenario, and your opponents list. What I will say is this. Kurnoth hunters are my rock. They do basically everything I want and my lists often run 9 of them (block of 9, block of 6 and 3, or 3 blocks of 3). That said I have 0 lists running running more than 12 of these guys. In my experience spending 1k points on hunters starts to reveal weaknesses in my lists and limits my ability to produce meaningful list synergies. I'm not sure if this post is helpful at all but these are my thoughts. I also think you slept on Alarielle as a replacement but maybe I'm in the minority.

Yeah so I missed the LoS clause on the spell... Probably because I haven't used it in ages... The thought process was to expand aggressively turn 1 and park the branchwraith behind a unit of 9 scythe kurnoths. You'd get a triple caster rolling 3 dice and able to bring back a kurnoth, summon 10 dryads (to secure the objective via bodies), it would be the Gnarlroot general so heal something d3 (most likely), and either mystic shield, bolt, summon woods, or deploy the lists one offensive endless spell. This variation also keeps the branchwraith off throne of vines so she doesn't butt heads with Alarielle. Cogs acts as a spiteswarm so when that plus move and charge is needed you can flip the switch. Finally, cogs slow mode and Balewind are redundancies. If cogs fails then I can still boost the branchwraith to a second cast via Balewind. I used the combo against Big Waaaagg last weekend and it felt rather nice. I had to position the branchwraith precisely but I was able to screen her with 5 spites get all the endless spells off and revive kurnoths from my block. Ultimately it probably is just a thought exercise of pushing something as far as possible but I think it might have a place? Having 7 casts per turn in my list felt very useful and flipping the cogs to speed mode on turn 4 allowed me to get to objectives I'd have missed otherwise and secure the game.

Has anyone tried the following combination in Gnarlroot? If you have, do you find it consistent at all? Gnarlroot - Allarielle + Throne of Vines - Branchwraith + Chalice of Nectar + Verdurous Harmony - Balewind Vortex - Chronomatic Cogs Turn Sequence Deploy Alarielle within range to cast cogs and have the branchwraith use slow mode. Alarielle casts Throne of Vines, Alarielle casts Cogs Branchwraith uses Cogs (Slow mode cast) to cast Balewind, Branchwraith uses Balewind to cast Dryads. At the end of this Alarielle has 1 cast and branchwraith has 1 cast. This is 800 points of investment so I'm not sure it's worth it but I find the combo interesting and potentially powerful setup with redundancies incase cogs or Balewind fails turn 1.

Personally, I'd drop the Arch-Rev since you get re roll 1s on the charge and his CA is the same as Harvestboons. Just sort of a redundant model for you and you don't have that many hunters. You could take a balewind to make the branchwraith a bit more of a threat? Or just beef up some spites? Minor changes. I find 30 Dryads hard to work with so I'd probably drop them to 20. The list seems fine though, my Harvestboon experience is equally light.

You can run a block of 6 with arch rev support, pop the CA, and ruin a block of mortek (and by ruin I think I killed ~14 of 20, which was good enough). Using +1 attack on a block of 6 that are all in combat essentially pushes them to an unbuffed 8 man (24 attacks). Also worth noting, 3 sword hunters and a TLA took on 20 pretty well. The opponent threw all of the attacks into the TLA and at -1 to wound (Dreadwood artifact) + re roll 1s to save he took 14 wounds total on the double turn. If I'd gotten a turn to try for regrowth he may have seen 3 rounds. In that time, the sword hunters did a fair bit of work through mortal wounds and that flat 2 damage leaving the guard very depleted. Worth noting, the crawler character shot is very scary for the arch rev since he has the fly keyword to start. If you can get him to take a wound to stop flying it's probably worth it against the crawlers. Branchwraith was in the woods so no worries there. Also, the normal crawler shot can devastate kurnoths if you miss your saves. I lost 5 kurnoths to 2 crawlers in one turn because I failed 5/6 4+s... We were also playing a 3 objective scenario which I think favors OBR because they're not that fast and do not spread out on objectives well. Even so I felt fine.

I generally agree with Craze's post above. Overall Sylvaneth are not doing very well on the table top at tournaments. I think this boils down to us having a fair book while being a very difficult army to pilot correctly. On top of that, the current book gives you the space to play the army in many different and viable ways. Want more damage? Winterleaf. Want restoration and magic? Gnarlroot. Want teleportation and surprise? Dreadwood. Want to charge all day? Harvestboon. Having so many options only makes list building more challenging but I think it gives the book a huge amount of flexibility. To that end, I think Sylvaneth have pretty solid matchups against DoT and OBR. I played DoT (not change host) and felt well equipped to answer their problems. Same with OBR, I haven't seen Nagash OBR (which does concern me) but artillary and mortek heavy was easy to manage. You'll probably see most people playing Winterleaf. I'd expect minimum 9 kurnoth hunters in a list. You'll probably see Outcast battalion and some spite revenants. Treelord ancient is becoming more popular. Then most lists tend to have a pet unit in Durthu or Drycha or Allarielle. Other glades that are floating around in larger numbers seem to be Gnarlroot and Dreadwood. A lot of folks are pretty down on the trees and for fair reasons. In most YouTube tier list videos they're sitting near the bottom (stats shows like the Honest Wargamers show similar trends). I'm a bit more optimistic and I feel they are right in the middle of the pack (and better off then some other tomes). It's a flexible book and an army that is exceptional at playing the objectives. When I play my list I usually feel like I have a line of play that can win me the game. Sometimes the line is slim and sometimes it's wide but I love that Sylvaneth always make me feel like I'm in it. For these reasons I think a top list under a top player can go 4-1 at a big event and even 3-0 something local. Stats show a much worse trend but I think that comes back to this being a hard army to master, it's certainly not an army I'd recommend as someone's first.

How'd the trees do at the LVO???

Thanks for the quick thoughts! I think I agree. I do have some concerns with the list and all of the points I'm putting into support pieces (TLA, Branchwraith, 20 Dryads, extra CP, and the hive). The hive also concerns me because it casts on a 7 and with the brooch over stave I'm not running any multi casters who can same turn spit out throne of vines into spiteswarm.

Last 100pts list question for the group. Which do you like more? Dreadwood TLA - General + Jewel of withering + Regrowth Arch-Rev Branchwraith - Aetherquartz brooch + Throne of Vines Drycha - Regrowth 20 x Dryads 10 x Spite Revs 10 x Spite Revs 5 x Spite Revs 6 x Scythe Hunters 3 x Sword Hunters Outcast battalion Vengeful Skullroot Or, swap out the bold items for... 5 x Spite Revs (down from 10) Spiteswarm Hive Extra CP Thought with the swap... Cons: Fewer bodies and less damage via Skullroot Pros: More consistent charges and extra CPs to feed the aetherquartz brooch

I'm pretty sure you declare at the start of each battle round whether or not Drycha is deployed in the table. That's how I've always played it. The rule doesn't specify if this model is on the table or currently deployed so I assume it's constant.

Yeah spites are interesting. 15 is also the number I never take and my problem with 20 is if I want to use outcasts a 20 and two 5s is 320 pts while two 10s and a 5 is 300 pts. Yeah I'm down 5 bodies and only saving 20 pts but I've found those points to really matter. If all you want spites to do is chaff and get you a battalion I'd take 3 x 5. Ive personally been doing 1 x 5 and 2 x 10. I'm not convinced it's optimal but the 10 man's can kill things, are better screens, and count as 10 bodies on an objective so I feel they're useful. Spiteswarm is interesting... I've been playing Dreadwood without it but want to fit it in now that the TLA single handedly almosy freed up enough points. Having played without it, charges off the TP are sketchy so generally my TPs are more of the alpha bunker variety or Drycha moving to shoot. This works super well on high objective count scenarios and not so hot on low objective count scenarios. I also run the aetherquartz broach so I have CPs up to attempt the charge reroll any turn where I need it.

So happy to see someone else feel this way. In my games 10 spites getting into combat and getting the chance to swing have done huge damage. They also absorb the arch rev command ability very nicely. Only problem is the fall to a stiff breeze and are battle shock prone. That said, I really liked how 10 man units played on the table top. Been saying this for a while now but the guaranteed 2nd wood in from the TLA in Dreadwood is so powerful. Getting the CA teleport and realm root teleport online turn 1 is huge. I've also found the Dreadwood artifact to be rather useful on the TLA.

Has anyone found success running the vengeful skullroot? It seems unwieldy but potentially powerful. Its casting value is reasonable, I like that it can't hurt Sylvaneth, and I like the potential near Wyldwoods. It's reasonably pointed, I'm just concerned about moving it around.

I have yet to play against Ossiarch but I would imagine mortals through casting, scythes/sword hunters, Durthu, Allarielle, even Drycha. To be honest I would expect most of Sylvaneth's hammer units to do decently well as they come with rend. Also we have some ability to output mortal wounds which is elite armor save's cryptonite. I think in general you want to get to the harvester ASAP. Assuming it's nicely bubble wrapped you can try to lay down enough fire power to ensure you wipe entire units at a time. All of this said, even if the units are well positioned the Ossiarch defense may be too much. The best bet is probably beating then to objectives when possible.

The point I was hoping to make with my Winterleaf comment was... what the glade offers seems less than Dreadwood. Dreadwood helps alleviate some of the strain placed on the army's mobility. In terms of pushing strengths further I think Gnarlroot does a great job of that, pushing healing and defense just a bit further. That said I can see arguments made against healing as a powerful ability in the first place. Really the question that I still have is, are people generally not playing Dreadwood? And if that is the case, why not? I see soo many Winterleaf lists in comparison and I believe Dreadwood offers as much upside if not more.

Yeah I agree with what Dreadwood does to shore up some of Sylvaneths problems so why isn't it appearing as much? Unlike the other glades I feel it makes Sylvaneth more consistent overall. The next most attractive glade to me is Gnarlroot with Allarielle and as many multi wound models as possible (maximizing kurnoth units as points per wound they are effecient). I have yet to try this idea out but in practice any unit that is not killed should be topped off during your turn. Winterleaf just feels like a bit of a win more ability in comparison. I don't think it shores up many weaknesses in the army.

Interesting thought, I previously used 25 or 30 spites which is £125 or £150 for a very small number of points (300pts or 320pts). That price tag doesn't take into account the Looncurse box (very hard to get ahold of) or different currencies (where they get even more expensive).

Hey all, I just watched AoS Coach's video - Age of Sigmar Emerging Meta (Nov '19) and was surprised to see Dreadwood as the 4th most popular glade. I've enjoyed Dreadwood these last few months and have had good success with it. To be fair the only other glade I've played is Winterleaf and the only other option I've built around is Gnarlroot. Just looking for some thoughts on the low representation of Dreadwood. I especially question it's low meta percentage in light of Sylvaneth's overall low win rate under the new book. Personally, I chalk this up to the following... the benefits of Dreadwood are not as obvious as Winterleaf, Gnarlroot and Harvestboon so most players avoid it. Cheers everyone!

Here is the post I put up on Facebook explaining my favorite bits, weaknesses, and choices going to 2k. The 1500 pt list is everything in the 2k minus a TLA and the 20 Dryads. The withering artifact moves to the arch rev. Enjoy the longggggggg post! TLDR - Drycha was an MVP in my Dreadwood list. Self-reliant, disruptive, and flexible. My favorite list element; it's happy to go 1st or 2nd Turn 1. Drycha: My favorite piece in the list (MVP 2 would be the 6 scythes). Often opponents would out drop me and force me to go 2nd turn 1. Teleporting Drycha on a weak flank (or ideally in their backline/near an objective) allowed for strong options going into a potential double turn. I could drop her at 9in, take her shots and go for a charge. Or place her further back but within 18 allowing her to deal out chip damage, protect herself from an opposing charge, but still put her in range of a charge if the double turn worked out. Her move 9 coming of the teleport allows her to chase down units (or just teleport again). An absolute swiss army knife unit. Expanding to 2k points there are some weaknesses to address... Issue 1 - Summoning woods: The Dreadwood CA helps mitigate the need to use navigate realm roots BUT it 100% doesn't replace it. My 1500pt list would be helped by more efficient early turn wood placement. I failed a number of 6+ casts and was denied in later turns which made positioning a challenge. Fix - 1 TLA: Much to my surprise I think the addition has to be a TLA. The guaranteed wood is very strong in Dreadwood where I have limited means of improving the lists ability to successfully cast spells. TLA opens up a 3rd army cast, guarantees a wood, offers some nice utility via the stomp and CA, offers a bit of chip with an 18in shot and a long range unique offensive spell, is reasonably resilient and self-reliant (aided by the Dreadwood artifact and regrowth spell), opens up a free wood teleport, and is a pseudo distraction carnifax. This is the most excited I've been for a TLA in any list I've written. Issue 2 - Objective bodies: 25 spite revenants was enough to contest points, but it meant committing a lot of independent squads to one region. Also spites are frail and battleshock prone. A few times I was able to teleport 1 unit onto an objective but that unit didn't have the bodies to immediately control the objective (5-10 man squads). Fix 2 - 20 Dryads: This feels like a slam dunk pick. Dryads offer resiliency and high base mobility. They are a great squad to buff with the arch-rev (large squad size and 2in reach) and pair nicely with the TLA CA. The other options is 20 spite revs but I'm not sure I want to take any blocks of 20. Playing with 10 man squads felt ideal offensively. Spite revs aren't in the list to be an anvil and they're far from self-reliant. Dryads fill the role of large unit objective contesters. It's worth noting, without bonuses to cast I'm only expecting to summon 10-20 Dryads a game. Most games I'm really only going for 10 and then I'm trying to bring Kurnoth's back to life so I'm not planning to summon 30-40 Dryads. Issue 3 - Reliable charges: The list made some 9in charges. Improving its ability to do so would be a big bonus. The only mechanic I could rely on was the re-roll failed charge CA. Fix 3: This one I have to compromise on. My options for better charges are mostly spell based (Cogs or Swarm) and I don't have powerful casters so shooting for 7+s feels like a losing bet (never mind if I'm in unbind range). In general, I tried to always keep 1 CP available going into charge phases where I knew I wanted to make a long attempt and that's what I'm going to keep doing. Holy cow, that was a lot! Hopefully, it helps The list exceeded my expectations. It excelled at controlling the pace of the game. In objective based game play it'****** and run tactics are extremely powerful.

Hey all, looking for thoughts on my list. This is the list I plan to continue modifying and I'm wondering if anyone has run this exact list? If you have, how has it faired? In my only game so far its felt very strong. I see a lot of lists similar to this one floating around but no exact matches. I'm happy to go into detail on my choices, I did a fairly extensive post on this in the Facebook group. Sidenote: I played a 1500 pt RTT in Bristol UK with this list (minus TLA and 20 man Dryad block) and went 3-0 (all major wins against DoK, FEC, and LoN). Cheers! Allegiance: Sylvaneth - Mortal Realm: Hysh - Glade: Dreadwood LEADERS Arch-Revenant (100) - General - Command Trait : Paragon of Terror Branchwraith (80) - Artefact : Aetherquartz Brooch - Deepwood Spell : Verdurous Harmony Treelord Ancient (300) - Artefact : Jewel of Withering - Deepwood Spell : Regrowth Drycha Hamadreth (320) - Deepwood Spell : Regrowth UNITS 10 x Spite-Revenants (120) 10 x Spite-Revenants (120) 5 x Spite-Revenants (60) 20 x Dryads (200) 6 x Kurnoth Hunters (400) - Scythes 3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200) - Greatswords BATTALIONS Outcasts (100)

To the best of my knowledge the new tree sets are meant to be another option for Wyldwoods. Not 100% on this but I believe 3 new trees = 1 old tree base. This is what I see floating around and if it’s true no need to convert. I’d just hold tight! Or if a conversion is easy for you I’m sure no one would mind.

Thought I’d post a fun list I’d like to try out when the new book drops. I call the list Battalion Behemoths. Gnarlroot LEADERS TLA - Ethereal Amulet, Regrowth TLA - Spell TBD Branchwych - Warlord, Auto-Cast Deepwood Artifact, Verdurous Harmony Branchwraith - Gnarlroot Artifact, Spell TBD TROOPS 5 x Tree -Revs 5 x Tree-Revs 30 x Dryads 3 x Kurnoth Hunters (Greatsword) BEHEMOTHS Treelord Treelord ENDLESS SPELLS 50pts of TBD (maybe soulsnare and gladewyrm) BATTALIONS Lords of the Clan Household 2000pts on the dot Whats the game plan? This list is meant to grind, take maximum advantage of the Gnarlroot passive, and take advantage of the very powerful Sylvaneth casting artifacts. In order to grab all the artifacts we want we’re going double battalion. The new auto cast deepwood lore artifact looks rather strong especially when combined with Gnarlroots warlord trait of healing something D3. Verdurous Harmony is bonkers if you can bring back a kurnoth (keeping the 30 dryad anvil healthy isn’t a bad backup). Gnarlroots specific artifact is very powerful on our branchwraith to help guarantee 10 dryads a turn. Our 4 wizards should keep everyone in re-roll 1s to hit radius. We have a plethora of CPs in the list and sadly not too much to spend it on. However, that means we’re getting re-roll 1s to save every turn and likely the Gnarlroot Ability or battleshock immune. This list is going to pump out a lot of woods, it’s got enough big bodies and heals that if a tree lord isn’t killed outright and it’s our turn it’s likely back to full, it’s got lots of free teleports, and four chances to make an enemy unit swing last. You may be asking yourself, where is the hammer? Sadly I don’t think this list is optimal because it’s basically 5 anvils. Tree lords and TLA have too few attacks to be consistent and are closer to anvils than hammers. That said, we have an ok mid range shooting phase with the Clans ability and our Treelords combined shooting. The game plan is to grind. My goal is to get on objectives early and plant roots. Force the enemy to engage on my terms and break them on anvils. Also with tagging objectives tree revs can force the opponent to keep some units back so their objectives are swept up under their feet. This will only help reduce the pressure on my many anvils and hopefully Im adding 30 dryads over the course of a game. I think there is an iteration of this list that includes more small casters, kurnoths, and a durthu but I thought this was a fun take. As a note, I thought this would be a good list for those people consumed by spite revs, bravery debuffs, durthu, and great swords. While I think those are all good options, the leaked info this book has a lot of nooks and crannies to explore. I think Treelords are priced appropriately now and wanted to build a list that pushes them hard. Cheers all and keep your heads up, this book is very fun and has gas albeit not straightforward. Then again, Sylvaneth was never a straightforward army to pilot.

Great that’s what I thought. Still a nice addition on 20 attacks.