IndigoGirls

Two questions. Anyone think there is any gas in the Lords battalion? I kind of like it. Second, do we think Winters Bite will combo with Drycha?

Completely agree, very exciting for list building where they won’t all be 200pt chunks.

I think, as always, the Kurnoth load outs all have their place. Swords had and still have better output than scythes but are limited by reach. For bows to make a solid return they do need some change or a good drop in points. The to hit and low number of attacks makes them too unreliable, which is only made worse by 2.0s changes to character sniping. Overall, very excited to dig into the new tome and for Sylvaneth to be brought up to speed with more recent tomes.

Yeah I completely agree with you haha I'm just really trying to squeeze an Azyros in to play around with the model. If I dropped him I would take another 80 pt wraith and bump the spites to revs, which I think has an infinitely better game plan!

Wow, so much good discussion recently!!! I haven't posted in ages (got sucked back into 40k...) but I was hoping to get some opinions on a 1k list I've been messing around with. My only criteria for the list was forcing Drycha and a Knight Azyros because I love the models. Allegiance: Sylvaneth LEADERS Knight-Azyros (100) - Allies Drycha Hamadreth (280) - Deepwood Spell : Regrowth Branchwraith (80) - General - Command Trait : Warsinger - Artefact : Ranu's Lamentiri - Deepwood Spell : Verdant Blessing UNITS 3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200) -Scythes 3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200) -Scythes 5 x Spite-Revenants (70) 5 x Spite-Revenants (70) From having played the list once things went fine. My main concern is when I encounter an army that wants to space me out. The list doesn't have much reach (ranged or teleport via revs). Azyros buff with Kurnoths/Drycha was pretty nice. Any thoughts on it? Probably not an ideal 1k but it has been fun nonetheless.

I say bring whatever you think is fun but if you are trying to win (i.e. this is a tournament situation where you want to shine) then what I'm about to say probably doesn't apply! I certainly don't think Alarielle is cheesy or that summoning ~200pts of models is OP. Your opponent will likely do something equally "cheesy" or "OP". Personally, I don't like the idea of 600/1500 of my points being in a single model so I wouldn't take her. Especially if you want hunters, TLA, Dryads and Revs. Quick math on that puts your list firmly at... Alarielle (600), TLA (300), 3 x Hunters (200), 10 x Dryads (100), 2 x 5 Tree Revs (160) = 1360/1500 (not much flexibility left, though your best bet from here is probably wraith and cogs or wych and balewind) Kurnoth hunters are my favorite unit aesthetically so bringing a bunch of them is always cool plus they are certainly competitive. My choice is drop Alarielle and your TLA instead taking Durthu (380), Drycha (280), and 240 spare points. Upgrade your hunters to 2 x 3 or 1 x 6 (400), upgrade your Dryads to 20 (200) and throw in a Wraith or Wych (80). If you want to get really cheeky downgrade your Tree Revs to Spite Revs (2 x 70), drop the Wych/Wraith and try out a Knight-Azyros (100) behind a Durthu who is pumped up with Ghyrstrike or whatever that artifact is called (also a joy behind 6 x Scythe/Sword Hunters).

In hindsight, I'm fairly certain you're correct on this one. It's not often that I venture outside of the Sylvaneth battletome and I confused myself. In that case, I'd take Warsinger to help boost the wraith's movement a little and make units that are screening more reliable on the charge without flipping cogs. Two other things... First, has anyone considered running solo Household? I really like the ability you get and I'm kind of alright with paying the treelord tax. Doesn't offer the same utility as a TLA but offensively it's the same if not better (more reliable ranged attack). Second, Alarielle can benefit from re-roll all failed saves when manipulating the cogs, correct? I recently played a game where she was on throne of vines and manipulating cogs to give her metamorphosis a little extra punch. At the time, I completely forgot cogs confers a defensive bonus to the user and it seems that re-roll would be wonderful on Alarielle (a surprisingly squishy 16 wound model).

Buckle up folks, this is going to be a long post. See above post but here is a non-battalion list I'm going to try. I call it"Look ma, no battalions" LeadersAlarielle the Everqueen (600)- Deepwood Spell: Throne of VinesBranchwraith (80)- General- Trait: Strategic Genius- Artefact: Ranu's Lamentiri - Deepwood Spell: Verdant BlessingDrycha Hamadreth (280)- Deepwood Spell: RegrowthBattleline5 x Tree-Revenants (80)5 x Tree-Revenants (80)20 x Dryads (200)Units6 x Kurnoth Hunters (400)- Scythes3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)- GreatbowsEndless SpellsChronomantic Cogs (60)Soulsnare Shackles (20) Lets start by looking at what's going on with this list. First, we have plenty of anti-horde à la Alarielle and Drycha (perhaps too much against elite lists, but how common are those these days?). Second, we have elite character killers in 400 pts of scythe hunter, why not swords you ask? Simple, swords provide more damage to low(ish) saves and we've got that covered through my first point. Third, we have a great anvil unit to work with in 20 Dryads, we want to place these guys on a highly contested objective, ideally where we have spawned a wood. Fourth, we often have a difficult time reaching the end of our opponents zone, introducing our version of khinerai heartrenders, old faithful "fail the re-roll charge" tree-revenants! Though I'm mocking these guys a bit, they have won me many AoS1.0 games. Here, we are using them to pressure weak/isolated heroes, artillery crew, or (my top choice) jump in turn 4 or 5 to take a late objective uncontested. Fifth, we really invest in valuetown with our Branchwraith build, Alarielle, and cogs. Admittedly, our ability to spread woods is awful in this build (addressed later). In order to remedy that shortcoming we take ranu's and cogs. Casting order for T1... Alarielle casts throne of vines > cogs > mystic shield. Cogs are set up to be used by Branchwraith, now with two casts we do verdant > roused. I have done this combo many times with my Dreadwood list and it works like a charm. If cogs fail, we still favor verdant over roused with the wraith as we really need those forests out. The valuetown present with Alarielle should be clear but we've built the list to take advantage of our three best options (20 Dryads, Treelord, 3 Kurnoth Hunters). If we really need to bunker down (and if I had enough Dryads) we will use another 20 block to hold a different objective. Treelord is very situational but I can see some use in scoring schemes where behemoths score or as a distraction piece for people who don't know just how likely this dude is to completely whiff. The most attractive option and part Six are 3 Kurnoths, Alarielle is the reason we've brought 3 bows along. I've previously defended bows, but if they stink after a couple of games I'll find a better use of 200pts. However, here is why they are included. A 3 group of bows, is kind of a miss but they can still do a few things we're missing. At size 3, they can hold a deep objective, they can pop artillery crews, they can whittle down behemoths, turn 4 or 5 they might remove an enemy from a scoring position, and they can ward off some deep-strike threats (i.e. mirror match tree revs or heartrenders). Worst case, I'm happy to simply shoot into an elite unit to pick off one or two models (see brutes, melusai, etc.). Now, when you have 6 bows, things start to get interesting. Even with -1 to hit pesky heroes, you should still be able to remove one every two turns, if you're lucky you'll get a bunch of hits and blow them up in a turn (oh and 6 bows are great for weakening/finishing behemoths and elites). Finally, we take shackles and not swords because they're easy to cast (good for rousing/casting without a modifier), if they go off enemy is -1 cast on their turn, can't be moved, and best case scenario enemy misses the unbind and suffers movement penalties. Wow! That was a lot of text, but it's not over folks. My chief concerns with this list. 1. We are abysmal at spreading woods. As someone who has been rocking an acorn and TLA this concerns me but lets turn a weakness into a strength. Our verdant blessing is as strong as we can make it (potentially +3). If we take 3 more bows with Alarielle, the board now has less LoS terrain to inhibit our shooting. The switch here is Drycha. I just bought her and want to use her but TLA for Drycha and the Shackles is our swap. TLA has been a real disappointment in AoS2.0 and a 50-50 for a forest is not the gamble I want to take. However, with the number of Dryads this list can rock the TLA command ability is stronger. 2. Our general can't make great use of a command trait. I think we want strategic genius here to help power Alarielle's ability/battleshock/and failed charges. Other consideration is Warsinger (but we can switch cogs to cover that), Inspiring/Wisdom of the Ancients, or Tenacious (she is that important). Also, to make her actually reliable, we take Ranu's even though I'd rather have some defensive help (particularly against mortal wounds). 3. We don't get too many Deepwood spells to play with... I really like 2x regrowth when possible (redundant but it increases board presence). Also, if the Branchwraith dies we no longer have forest spread (a sad thought). Overall, I think the spell chose and placement above makes the most sense. 4. This list is 8 drops, yikes... Most games we aren't choosing when we go. We need to deploy smart and use our flexibility. Honestly, I think we have enough going on where the difference between going 1st and 2nd is whatever. On top of that, unlike our one drop variants this actually allows us to see how our enemy deploys before plopping everything down. It's a wrap folks.

Wow there has been so much discuss since I last posted, it's wonderful to see When I say 4% above, I'm talking about the tax to take our cheapest artifact bearer i.e. a bwych/bwraith (80/2000 = 0.04). In every list that I made using a two battalion system I've forced myself to provide three artifact bearers. What I was getting at is it might be ok to not use all three artifacts and it sounds like @Mirage8112 might agree. From reading through the forums over the past week or two I see a lot of people asking @scrubyandwells for his thoughts on Dreadwood lists/it seems all people are talking about is Dreadwood and Gnarlroot. From what I can tell, more folks have been interested in starting Sylvaneth or have in fact just started. What I'd like to say to everyone is don't get stuck on these two battalions. Sylvaneth has a lot to offer outside of those two that I don't think people are properly experimenting with. If last year is any indication, a non-battalion Sylvaneth list can do very well at top tournaments (i.e. Adepticon) and I believe that still holds true in AoS 2.0.

I've been doing the same thing this whole time. However, I'm starting to doubt myself. Spending 80pts (4% of your army value) to ensure an artifact bearer might not be the right choice. I'm glad to hear that my original opinion on the matter is echoed by others. Lately, I've been thinking up lists that can't make use of all the artifacts I have access to so I think part of me is trying to justify those lists against my opinion that everything I'm given through battalion choices should be used.

I may look to post this elsewhere on the forums but it is a question I feel Sylvaneth easily encounter. With of the two battalion options we have most lists I write up contain 3 artifacts. In some variants I end up with only two of the three being used (i.e. Drycha and Alarielle in a list). How do people feel about NOT using an artifact slot? Maybe I'm overvaluing but I always want to use all I'm given.

True, Dreadwood also lets you do some cheeky plays with ambush and an acorn.

@scrubyandwells thank you for your thoughts! I would agree that Silent Communion is not reliable enough. Regardless, thank you for echoing a sentiment that I had felt but was uncertain of, i.e. TLA not being an auto-include. @Aezeal I listened to the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCOCzPII5R4) again and have approximate timestamps for broad categories of discussion! 0:35 - 1:23 Sylvaneth warscroll/rules change discussion 1:44 - 2:07 Dreadwood Battalion 1:44 - 2:07 LoS Forest Ruling 2:07 - 2:23 Other Sylvaneth Battalions 2:23 - 2:44 Potential Allies 2:44 - Close Match-up Discussion Hope it helps make a long video more accessible

Personal tip, I listen to every week of Warhammer Weekly while doing hobby work (building/priming/painting). Good listening during mindless tasks. More useful information, the conversation starts around the 35 minute mark. Early discussions focused on unit changes and how the crew felt about those units. Good early discussion on kurnoth hunter loadouts, LoS blocking woods, and the current value of the various Sylvaneth units. Then the conversation transitioned to Dreadwood builds and their pros/cons. After that they talked through the various match-ups that Syvlaneth will face. This is a rough timeline without timestamps, if I listen to the conversation again I can jot down times and post them. There is a lot of good information and thoughts in this nearly 3 hours of Sylvaneth talk. I strongly suggest listening to it in the background during your daily commute or hobby time. It brought to light some things I had felt after roughly a dozen games of AoS 2.0 that I don't think get enough attention. One example, I've been running a TLA in every game and I'm just not feeling him as much anymore. Tyler brought up that perhaps the value of TLA had gone down in a variety lists and I am feeling that from game experience. @scrubyandwells If you've got the time I'm interested in your opinion. I really want to swap the TLA for more reliable damage (those sweeping blows, especially when wounded feel awful) but I'm very reluctant to miss out on a woods generator... The re-roll 1's doesn't feel super relevant for my list either but that 4+ forest creation would be missed, even when I have a hero casting verdant blessing with Ranu's and an acorn bearer. Another downside is my ideal swaps (Drycha, Durthu, or simply more Hunters) would result in me have access to three artifacts but only taking 2 (and that just feels like a total waste).

I wholeheartedly agree with your post @blueshirtman. It does feel like BCR got the short end of the stick. It seems like we are expressing the same sentiment. While I still enjoy breaking out my BCR, it's an extremely frustrating army to love... they feel like a forgotten faction. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that some love comes to Destruction (as a whole) soon and that love trickles down to BCR. Until that time, when I feel like rolling some dice and not busting out a top tier list, my ogres are the perfect doods.

As a Sylvaneth and BCR player, I don't think I'd bring Alarielle at 1500 pts. However, that's not my point. In general, BCR is going to struggle against Sylvaneth simply due to our large cav bases and their ability to create channels and impassible areas via wood placement. The woods are now LOS blocking too, which makes the Thundertusk even more of a miss. Honestly, I'm not sure how much their army composition matters due to the nature of how they play. It's simply a hard match-up. I can't agree with this less. There are some armies that will, and can, abuse summoning. That being said, GW is quickly fixing the broken elements (i.e. Seraphon changes). I think this is an especially misplaced comment in terms of Sylvaneth. The Dryad summoning is great but far from broken (80pt caster that can't do anything alone, 50-50 chance to summon 10 drayds [can be dispelled], restrictive placement, and can't move when placed make them far from freebies) and Alarielle's once a game summon makes up for the fact that she is a 600 pt model who is otherwise over-costed and a total glass cannon. Now, can summoning be frustrating? Absolutely. Were certain combinations overlooked? Sure, and GW is already acting to correct the worst offenders. This is a new edition and with it comes a different meta, BCR got the short end of the stick again (which stinks since they were my first AoS love) but it is so refreshing to see armies on the table using these new rules to do interesting things. My buddy plays flesh-eater courts and while they still have a host of problems he can now summon without putting aside points. That certainly makes the army play a lot better, which makes are games closer and thus more enjoyable. I'm sorry if you've had some bad experiences in the new edition, so have I, but I really do feel the pros of new summoning outweigh its cons.

Still looking for thoughts on transporting Sylvaneth via plane/shipped box! I'm most concerned about my TLA as he is the pointy-est of the bunch with lots of bits that can easily break under any amount of pressure. I think Dryads, Hunters, and Revs can all be safely put in a box with interior padding and a bunch of packing peanuts without much cause for concern. Thanks!

@BadDice0809 I think this is about as all in on the melee alpha strike that the army can go. Now, some thoughts! 1. Warsinger is worth considering to help those charges on the hunters. +1" to charge is great and benefits everyone. 2. I would consider taking the Quicksilver Swords instead. As I've found out many games in a row now, those shackles are (for the most part) dispelled every game during my opponents turn, if they aren't denied with an unbind. Up to you though, perhaps the versatility is better than ~2 mortal wounds at range. 3. Have you considered giving acorn to the branchwych and ambushing her? With good placement I believe you can get all of the people you care about in and around that forest and 9" away from the enemy. All that being said, I had not thought to use moonstone, smart way to basically guarantee a charge nor realm walker a 50-50 where Durthu's charge is basically guaranteed. I like your spell selection as well. I'd only say maybe take regrowth on Drycha. It's redundant but your TLA could get blasted off. None of your big trees have a lot of defense so if you survive you're going to want to healing options.

I tried the spread out game and it failed miserably for me, though there were also some misplays by me. I've noticed this time and time again with Soulsnare Shackles. I really like them, but against a lot of armies they will simply act as a means of reducing their casts by 1. In a tournament setting if you roll up against a Destruction or Chaos list with minimal casts they can be crippling. However, against DoK they were dispelled every time. Minus one spell is still useful but I think the Quicksilver Swords would have been a nice way to reach out and ping the buff heroes (Medusa ?).

Unrelated question from my previous long post. Anyone have tips on transporting Sylvaneth models on a plane? I had initially thought I'd take my BCR army but I love these guys too much to leave them behind. The only two I'm concerned about in my list are Alarielle and TLA. My spites/dryads/ and kurnoths should be fine with some good bubble wrap around each and a fairly tight container in my carry-on.

Hey everyone, looking for advice versus DoK. For reference I'm including the list I used in my game... LEADERS Treelord Ancient (300) - General - Command Trait : Gnarled Warrior - Artefact : The Oaken Armour - Deepwood Spell : Regrowth Alarielle the Everqueen (600) - Deepwood Spell : Regrowth Branchwraith (80) - Artefact : Ranu's Lamentiri - Deepwood Spell : Verdant Blessing Branchwych (80) - Artefact : Acorn of the Ages - Deepwood Spell : Treesong UNITS 5 x Spite-Revenants (70) 5 x Spite-Revenants (70) 5 x Spite-Revenants (70) 5 x Spite-Revenants (70) 6 x Kurnoth Hunters (400) -Scythes BATTALIONS Dreadwood Wargrove (90) Outcasts (90) ENDLESS SPELLS Chronomantic Cogs (60) Soulsnare Shackles (20) First, how do people generally deal with 20 blood sisters? I was able to handle the 30 witch aelves but not them AND blood sisters. When a group was fully buffed... brew, razor, blessing of khaine, and hagg nar I could not absorb their hit/deal enough damage myself. Second, is it worth the risk going all in with ambush trying to melee deepstrike my 6 kurnoths, Alarielle, and my TLA? In our game he bubbled his heroes and blood sisters with witch aelves (40). I could have attempted charges with +2 sending the TLA to swing at the 30 witch aelves before they were buffed with high rend. Alarielle could have followed him or taken the other side of the bubble (blood sisters wrapped by 10 witch aelves) and swung over the 25mm bases with the 2" horn. Kurnoth hunters would have piled in where possible, ideally towards the blood sisters to try and get damage on them, if not, just eliminate more witch aelves. We were playing Star Strike, so instead of going all in I turtled using the 12" ability of Dreadwood to limit Morathi's spell range. Ultimately, the first star landed in the center of the board and a huge fight broke out . Any thoughts on the match-up is greatly appreciated. My own personal take away... Quicksilver Swords may prove more useful than the Shackles and once things were buffed up with -2 rend, I would have preferred my TLA to have ethereal amulet and warsinger.

I don't follow the international scene all that much but I would wait for NOVA results to see which places well. I'm sure some UK folks can weigh in on their scene though as there may have been (?) some larger tournaments using 2.0 recently?

@Malakree Awesome and informative post. Thank you for your perspective and confirming much of what I had hoped for! A real problem for BCR is a reliable anvil. While I could take grots in large groups as an ally I much prefer the Beast Hammer battalion and the idea of pigs as my anvil. The last thing I want is my stonetusk stuck in with a bunch of garbage because I lacked an appropriate screen. Additionally, I want a unit that can take a hit from something big and keep fighting. Basically, I want some options and see a 6 squad as being able to fulfill that role. An alternative is a squad of 4 mournfang but when you lose one you lose a lot of potential damage. As you noted, the 6 man squad can take a hit and keep chugging. Again, thanks for all the information, I'm planning a big move and will be taking my BCR with me. Therefore, I'm trying to think of some fun additions to keep the army fresh and the pigs seem like the ideal candidate.

Thanks for the advice! I believe their bases are the same as mournfang, which are rather large and awkward. With that said, I should probably cap it at a squad of 6. As I thought 9 would be... adventurous. This is basically what I was hoping. I want these guys to bog down my opponent so that my big hitters can get around and smash. It is good to know that I shouldn't expect much damage out of them. I would LOVE it if BCR had access to anything else Ironjawz Sadly, we're limited to one battalion that lets you take 2 squads of pigs. A lame restriction in my opinion.

Hello Ironjawz boyz and girlz! Beastclaw Raiders player here looking for some sage advice. Has anyone run a squad of 6+ gore gruntas? Through one of the BCR battalions we can ally in gore gruntas. Part of me wants to try running a squad of 6 or even... 9 as a chaff/zone control unit. Most lists I see take squads of 3, am I out of my mind thinking that 6+ could be a solid anvil? Obviously battleshock is a bit of a concern but with my army's lack of command point outlets I don't mind dropping one or two to save a 5 wound model. Also, as I've not used gore gruntas before, how do people generally feel about their damage output? Obviously, it is much better on the long charge but do you see them accomplishing much in that department most games? I've heard stories of their lack of damage, just seeing if those have any legitimacy. Thanks!