mmimzie
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Posts posted by mmimzie
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Just now, Seraphina of the Seraphim said:
Right, everything you said about the Marauder Horsemen and Knights makes sense, but about that Lord. Wouldn't it be hard for a footslogging Lord to keep up with the Knights? Also, if it does make sense and I'm just being a dummy, what would you drop for the Lord?
The knights are definitly fast and i won't say there won't be times when you're going to struggle to keep him in position. that said you use the ability after the charge, so you just have to make sure the chaos lord is within ~12" from your target, and just don't charge the unit all the way in and save that for the pile in. However, having played similar armys it's few and far between that the foot sloggin general is struggling to keep up.
For drops you have a few options:
I would drop the chariot, it's abit lack luster. That said chariots are really cool.
I like the 2 wizards as it gives you insurance for the powerful buff, most our spells are tough to cast (at a 7) from our lore. I think 7 is unreliable so maybe you could drop one.
coooould drop the manticore. She's not bad, but you have lots of threats, and they want love and support. So she is weird as while she's not bad, she's also not going to be a one lady army. -
9 hours ago, Mcthew said:
As you say it's odd. Either this is badly worded or the choice to run mixed units is wrong. They're incompatible rules.
FAQ here we come!
(Seriously, GW are the Apple of tabletop games! So many bugs and so many updates, but the stuff sure is pretty!)
no need for an FAQ answer because it already exist.
Q: Some units can carry different weapon options, like spears or swords – can I build my unit (and my models) with different weapons? For example, 8 spears and 12 swords? A: It depends on the description; if the description says that the unit can be armed with different weapon options, you can only use one of the weapon options. If the description instead states that models from the unit can be armed with different weapon options, you can choose a mix of weapon options.2 hours ago, Seraphina of the Seraphim said:I've been thinking about a Undivided based list, any ideas/critiques from the more tactically minded people here?
RAVAGERS(2500)
Heroes:
Lord on Kardadrak(250)
-Chaos Undivided
-Ruinbringer Warband
-Flames of Spite
-Sword of Judgements(Ulgu)
Chaos Sorcerer Lord(110)
-Chaos Undivided
-Bolstered by Hate
Chaos Sorcerer Lord(110)
-Chaos Undivided
-Unquestioned Resolve
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore(260)
-Chaos Undivided
-Master of Deception
Darkoath Warqueen(90)
-Chaos Undivided
-Favoured of the Pantheon
Darkoath Chieftain(90)
-Chaos Undivided
-Eternal Vendetta
Battleline:
40x Marauders(300)
-Chaos Undivided
40x Marauders(300)
-Chaos Undivided
20x Marauder Horsemen(360)
-Chaos Undivided
-Ruinbringer Warband
5x Chaos Knights(180)
-Chaos Undivided
-Ruinbringer Warband
5x Chaos Knights(180)
-Chaos Undivided
-Ruinbringer Warband
1x Chaos Chariot(120)
-Chaos Undivided
-Ruinbringer Warband
Battalions:
Ruinbringer Warband(140)
I think i'd run the marauder horsemen as 5 man units. as you can charge with each unit and get d3 mortal wounds with each successful charge. Run them in lines, and they'll be like an old fashion bretonian style lance. From there i'd personally merge the two knight units into one 10 man squad as that one they can all swing at once to smash threw units. A chaos lord would not be out of place here as your knights are going to be rerolling saves and at a 3 wounds, and you undivided buff they are really durable. So they can take the double pile in both and survive what ever remains from your first activation, and then swing again with powered up lances.
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I mean azyr also says the gaunt summoner on disc is 200pts.
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38 minutes ago, Mcthew said:
True - its never been needed before. But you're mixing save abilities here by saying you have half a unit that can save mortal wounds and half that don't. But you can pick which models your opponent can spell cast against? Sorry, but if someone tried that on me I'd think they were cheating.
Kairic acolyte's already work this way. One shield buffs the whole unit with a mortal wound save. It's a game of magic trying to perscribe any sort of logic is a mistake. There are about a 100 excuses you can make for any direction you like.
For instance in this case I could say that you fire an arcane bolt at me and my warrior trys to blot the bolt with his save, but doesn't get it up in time, and thus is slain.
Or I could say my warrior walk in shield wall formation with shield raise against enemy magic's. An arcane bolt flys through a gab in the Shield's, nailing a member of the back rank.
I could also say your arcane bolt kills my shield weilding model, but to keep up the formation the warrior behind him drops his weapon and make the shield. Mind you this is how the game worked in warhammer fantasy battle.
It's a game, basic in a magical fantasy land, and the second you try to apply common sense over some one else's common sense, you are wrong.
41 minutes ago, DarrinTheOccult said:The rule says that a unit that carries chaos runeshields can save mortal wounds. First you calculate the damage, next you allocate wounds, so you don't have to kill shield guys (althought you can)
I will note that mortal wound saves and any none army save specifically happens after the entire the attacks sequence and after allocating wounds. This is specified in the chaos warrior war scroll and in every other special save. The attack sequence is only for ranged and melee weapon attacks, and that feeds into wounds.
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I wonder how do slaves to darkness auras work with heros with no marks. Like darkoath chieftans and warqueens. The aura ability says all heros have an aura, but they have no access to any of the marks. I assume they don't have an aura?
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come to think about it, this is so fluffy it's literally the story of the darkoath war queen book.
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12 minutes ago, Charleston said:
Not brewing it myself but Marauders are an autoinclude. 2 bigger blobbs seem worth concidering. As much as it is unfluffy, a sorcerer with the teleport spell to throw a unit into the opponents backline is really worth concideration here. This shall be enough to keep enemies turn 1 locked in their own deployment zone. The other marauder blobb could be buffed by a bloodsecrator, bloodstoker and/or Wrathmongers to get a really sick lot of wounds. 4 attacks 3+/3+ with rr 1 to hit, all wound rolls, a minimal charge of 10" seems quite vaiable to me, as long as you are not up against a big petrifex blobb. Lord of Chaos could allow you to fight twice. A Warshrine could provide a 6++ aftersave and up the to-hit reroll, althrough the latter one isn´t worth it. You could take an DP in addition to provide a valuable beatstick that keeps your opponent from charging you.
is it truely unfluffy?? a sorcerer bending a barbarian horde to his will, using them as sacrafices to his dark god. That wasn't even unfluffy in Warhammer fantasty, and it's about 100% more fluffy.
Heck this is basicly the lore of cabalist. -
2 minutes ago, DarrinTheOccult said:
But do pinks get a spell from the lore of the damned?
no thats why i said it's good if your running generic endless spells. a few generic endlezss spells, 2 gaunts, and a bird dombined with the daekfire cvcan make for some pretty strong spell onslaughts. you could potentialy get that endless szpell doing flat 10 mortals to targets in it's path.
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54 minutes ago, Grimrock said:
Really the biggest weakness I can see for the cabalists is a lack of cheap double casters to put down endless spells.
for generic endless spells the gaunt summoner is sort of a 3 spell wizard as he can summon 10 pinks on turn 1. 2 gaunts a lord of change make for a great spell battery for endless spells all geting +1 to cast a turn from the big bird, and the pinks geting +2 because they have friends.
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2 hours ago, Grimrock said:
First, I've run larger units of 25 mm bases and I've found its very viable to get 30 models in at once, especially with the massive charges marauders should get regularly.
The way i see combat is specific unit removal and general i feel banking on 30 25mms in my experience is rather unrealistic, and from there once you hit 40 marauders i think other units start to compete with them.
20 models can be buffed to the point of getting a job done, and thats how i see army design. I build units to do jobs. I want units that can do 30+ wounds in one round against a 4+ save, once a unit reachs that it's in a good spot and more i find wasteful. A chaos lord + sorc Lord/undivided war shrine prayer is enough to get you there. Mind you this needs a mind stealer, and maybe you want a khorne daemon prince to let you get the stealer in range to do it's deal. BUt from there you can take multiple instances of marauders that you can send out every turn to kill stuff.1 hour ago, whispersofblood said:No one is going to use cabalist
models are cheap and a marauder army can definitly bring the numbers to off set any lost of what 3 models max?? or whatever?? that's nothing, all game that won't even cost you a full 20 maruader squad. While just +1 to cast is enough to tip you into a safer 6 to cast range.
I think gaunt summoners supported by a Lord of Change is not a bad idea in cabalist, even more if you want endless spells as you can then take pink horrors. -
1 hour ago, Charleston said:
That´s the point: The wording sounds like mix and match is allowed right now, as it allows "each [Warrior] armed with one of the following options"
Fair fair yeah didn't read it right i guess my brain filed it away.
I guess shields and halbreds would be best. Technically you only need 1 shield, so the others could be great swords or paired hand weapons.
Paired hand weapons are generally always better, but any big bad unit we run will likely get buffed by a chaos sorcerer lord or one of our other sources of rerolls. Maybe if you run a specifically nurgle getting reroll wound rolls with the nurgle shrine ability and the +1 save. Alternatively you could run undivided warshrine and get reroll hit and wounds that way. I think the great swords are better if getting buffed by sorc or shrine using undivided prayer, as the rend can make a pretty big difference against some units. -
1 hour ago, Gibs said:
That is annoying need to get the book to study it 30 minutes wasn't enough haha. I am not sure the shields are worth taking on a full unit of warriors then?
I don't think you take Marauders in units sizes less than 30 they are basically a barbarian horde so the more you can take the better. Back in fantasy units of 50 Marauders were not an uncommon sight on the table.
Maraurders are taken in lots of 20, and max 40. The 20 buff is just rend, and with the way AoS tends to work you shouldn't get more than 20-25 25mm bases into combat. At 40 you start running in battleshock issues really hard really fast, as you start auto failing battle shocks at 5+ deaths. While losing jsut -1 rend isn't gonna break your damage so much if you lose a single model.
once you start thinking of maxing the maurders other units start to matter like unmade. -
21 minutes ago, Gibs said:
However, was considering running shields in the front and then halberds in the rear
Warriors have to all run the same weapons.
in my book as long as you don't need battle line iron golems are where it's at for tanky little units, or even tanky big units. -
39 minutes ago, Gibs said:
Marauders are looking badass and clearly the chosen infantry in this book!
Putting them to one side what are your thoughts on optimizing Chaos Warriors and Knights given we have amazing new models for them?
marauders want cabalist as an important note as they want to be teleported, and that spell goes off a a 7+ which means 42% of the time (not a small margine) you won't be picking your fights against a lot of the fighty armies. While you definitly want 20 man squads, 8 wounds of on a couple of these units is enough to make them basicly useless, and means they can be threatend by throw away screen and small objective grabber units. Thier power lies in MSU and being layers of onions that need to be peeled. I think if your gonna go heavy maurder battalion heavy is where you want to go. Maurders definitly are money damage wise, but i think if your not running cabalist you might be a bit disappointed with your army needing crucial spells.
I think the knights are no joke, while they have a lower damage output they need less support to do thier job, just a chaos lord hanging around and a sorcerer lord for easy buffs. So they can fight into any army as a strong hammer unit. I think the mounted lord command ability is too much of a CP expenditure for this army that doesn't have a strong CP engine.
I know you didn't mention them but maunder horsemen in ruin bringer warband seem great as they can all just charge into units and mortal wound out units, and allowing them to side step activation wars. This on top of thier not amazing shooting attack. But it's enough to put down a keeper of secrets safely. Chaos knights could fit into ruinbringers giving them a few extra mortal wound on the charge, and some more CP to work with. -
16 minutes ago, Kyyn said:
A question.
Regarding Endless Spell, Eightfold Doom Sigil, it says that at the end of the turn, the player whose turn is taking place select a STD unit, adding +1 attack until that player´s next hero phase.....
So in case of double turn, this has no effect ?? as that player´s next hero phase would start right after the end of that turn.....
Your opponent must buff your models.
So if your opponent kills models and rolls 3+s they have to buff your units. Meaning if you are next you get buffs or if you get a double turn you have 2 turns of bonus attacks.
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2 minutes ago, grucha said:
Sounds like I should buy 20 more poxwalkers to convert them to nurgle marauders
Thanks! Do you know how has hard is it to cast this spell?needs a 7+
2 minutes ago, Argonoch said:What do people think of 10-15 marauder horsemen? 15 shots at 3+/3+/-1 seems decent and they arent terrible in combat anymore
I think the ruinbringer host giving marader horsemen 2+ d3 mortal wounds on the charge makes javalin horsemen a thing. I wouldn't take 10+ though i'd keep them at 5s to get more of that charge hits. A chaos lord of karkadrak + 4 mauder horsemen units could do 6d3 mortal wounds on the charge and shooting with those javalins before charging in. Letting you do some decent damage before combat starts. Give them all mark of slannesh so they can reroll those charge rolls and do extra hits on 6's Then the karkadrak itself is pretty killy and can be buffed up just as a on foot marauder or chaos knight unit can be to go in swing to finish off whatever you multi charged, or to sneak in and kill heros behind a screen you just charged through.
honestly, this is where i'm going for my battle line as it's none tax, gives CP, and the maurder horsemen looks actually decent.
59 minutes ago, Asamu said:"Battleline in Slaves to Darkness army if all units are Host of the Everchosen."
oh thanks a lot!! i was going by that image that was posted where the person had compile the points and text. Guess they missed this batta line bit.
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4 minutes ago, grucha said:
What gives marauders opportunity to teleport and fight twice?
marauders musiciangives +1 to charge, marauders also have an ability that lets you set the lowest die roll when charging to a 6. One of the slaves to darkness spells lets you teleport a unit any where more than 9" away. The chaos lord command ability lets you fight twice.
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8 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:
So, according to new book, is there a way to make a (almost) competitive list WITHOUT the marauders? don't like them. Want knights/warriors/chariots (got 3) varanguards and mounted guys (on monsters)
Chaos knights are about as good as maurders. They basically do the same thing in my book. Both want sorcerer buff and to pile in twice against a target forced to attack last.
Splintered fang want to be killer and have the whole unit attack and pile in using the dark path chieftain.
Unmad are Abit weaker than maraudere, but can force unit to be stuck in combat with them. Allowing you to go in for a strong punch and keep the target unit locked down for a turn.
4 daemon princes working together as one pusudoe unit are also pretty strong, and don't need much support
29 minutes ago, Asamu said:All models in the list must be from the Host of the Everchosen subfaction. Which basically means they're battleline if you're bringing Archaon and not taking allies.
This doesn't work. There is no way as far as I can see to make a StD with varanguard as battle line.
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34 minutes ago, Souleater said:
If I ran a Khorne S2D army would I be able to access Judgements?
you also can run one of the StD battalions in your khorne list.
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2 hours ago, Asamu said:
After toying around with list building some, it's really not that bad actually. There's not a lot of pressure to dump a ton of command points outside of niche lists, since most of the important abilities are from other things like spells or warshrine prayers.
You can get a battalion, spend 50 points on an extra CP, and run Hysh for the 5+ CP generation if you feel like you need it. For Ravagers, that might be worth doing, but one of the heroes in a ravagers list can take a trait to use one of the 3 basic command abilities each turn (turn, not round, so he could inspiring presence every battleshock phase), which should make managing points quite a bit easier. Unless you're doing something like the teleporting marauder list below and spamming that nurgle DP command ability, you don't need that many.
Despoilers have it easier with the +d3 command point artefact if you really want more CP.
i guess i'm mostly looking at ravagers as they seem quite CP hungry. You wanna drop that CA every turn. Then ravagers have some really strong CAs as well like the darkoath chieftan lets stuff like splintered fang take a charge and swing back with every model in the unit, potentially rerolling everything fishing for 6s with sorc help. Or the chaos lords ability letting units swing twice, and again when combined with a spell lets you swing 2 times before your enemy swings one time.
Though as you say for ravagers i'm thing battalion, buy cp, and the hysh artifact is definitly the way to go.45 minutes ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:I plan on doing an all-Marauder, Cultist, and monster list. Don't plan on using any models in chaos armor. Pray for me
i'm going for same.
Darkoath Warqueen
Darkoath Chieftain
Chaos Lord
Gaunt Summoner
Sorcerer Lord (mark of nurgle general)
Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount (Mark of slannesh)
5 Marauder Horsemen (mark of slannesh)
5 Marauder Horsemen (mark of slannesh)
5 Marauder Horsemen (mark of slannesh)
5 Marauder Horsemen (mark of slannesh)
40 Splintered Fang
38 Unmade
Eightfold Star
Ruinbringer Warband
Bonus CPTotal: 1980
I think the rinbringer warband is great with a spam on marauders as you can charge all 5 units in for a bunch of free mortal wounds, if you toe touch one unit. A argument can be made for the lizard to make for a more smashy hero as he'll have 2d3 mortal wound charges.
Splintered fang work great as a big screen that can attack back really hard when supported with a Darkoath Chieftain. Even more so if they get buffed by the start, they'll kill most things that kill them, and worse with sorcerer buff.
Unmade are blendy with chaos lord support and sorcerer lord support.
Only downside is mabye i want a 2nd unmade or splintered fang unit.
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Ruinbringer warband battalion looking like a pretty good core for any slaves army.
with 4 min squads of maurder horsemen squads and your lord. Thats ~5 d3 mortal wound on the charge, on top of javalin damage. All happening before any combats are selected. Also that extra CP (which we will be struggling to get, atleast what i've seen of cabalites, ravagers and despoilers) and artifact won't be too bad. -
We are gonna have a tough time getting CP i feel. Didn't see anything to let us farm up CP, harder on ravagers as likely you'll only be using that ability more toward the end of the game.
We also have the "enemy unit attacks last" Spell. This is also pretty for us letting any army play in the attack's first meta.
26 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:Guys week end is for pre order, but when we can buy battletome?:)
Pre-orders today, out next saturday. SO buy now if you wanna be sure or wait till next week and try to find one in store. battletome is up for pre-order this weekend.
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1 hour ago, armisael said:
Just read eightfold doom-sigil warscroll. Is that mean if 20 models die within 12” you can roll 20 dice. For each 3+ you will get 1 attack. So, you can potentially give 20 additional attack to slayer of the king?
each unit can only be affected onced. It's effectively, if your opponent went first each your in that 18" range for the rolls get +1 attacks if you are running a horde.
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3 hours ago, angrycontra said:
I like the overall changes but man, those Varanguard are horrible. Their average dam/pts is on the same level as chaos warriors (which is rather terrible) but with half of the chaos warrior's survivability. I don't know chaos knight points, but assuming they cost less than 200, I see no point ever paying 300 for 3 varanguard. Even the possible book buffs don't convince me varanguatdrd can be saved because you can already get units of 10 chaos knights with full hit, wound and save rerolls through chaos sorcerers (not to mention +1 to hit from mounted lord command ability and some chaos aura bonus). It doesn't help that varanguard are worse with no archaon in the army (who is already a massive point sink).
You are paying for the lower surface area. Six varangaurd can fight in the same location 10 chaos warriors or 6 chaos knights can. meaning your fitting 600pts of damage in a small space.
In most charges even with cav you really aren't getting big huge surrounds. Likely it's some reduced frontage vs another frontage. General 10-15 25mm 10 32s, 6 cav bases, 1 monster, etc.
It's why morrsarr guard are better than thralls in deepkin, enlightend are better than tzaangors, keepers are better than the rest of thier book, etc. lots of damage in a tiny space. As such varanguard can fight twice with the safe area that knights can only fight once without CP help.So when you compare that and just look at the spears vanaraguard will get double the damage with out even double piling in and no arkaon. When they do double up they'll get even more in there, and thats including any possible buffs such as a sorc lord.
It's more damage vs durability.
(edit: both try to get a sorc to give them rerollable saves so that they can fight even against units that attack first, this is not a the more reliable strategy. )
5 hours ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:I just put Marauder Horsemen heads on the Marauder bodies. They're still oddly proportioned but it isn't as painful to look at.
funny i was just thinking of using horsemen because they look quite abit better.
Slaves to Darkness - Everchosen 2000 points list. Need help!
in Chaos
Posted
Well if you arn't charging with the golems they get the reroll saves, as it's normal move that turn and not battle round. So on your opponents turn they always reroll saves (unless forced to make a normal move).