mmimzie
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Posts posted by mmimzie
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So i see folks have been working on new tech. Figured I'd post my list and see what you all think.
Grey Seer Bell (Master of magic+skitter leap)
Grey seer bell (death frenzy + skaven brew)
Arch warlock
Claw lord (verminus valor)
Warbringer
40xclan rats
40xclan rats
40x clan rats
40x clan rats
Warp lightning vortex
Gravetide
Pendulum
Vermintide
1990
Been playing with this list or similar for a while. The bodys and control is fun. Adding in the arch war lock to make warp lightning work better. Feel like a bell needs 80 clan rats around it to really justify its existance, and keep it relavant.
Comments and thoughts welcome.
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Honest 120 is perfect. I just think the discount is all wrong. It should have the same discount sequitors had qnd i think still sort of do?
Should be 120/400. Its verminus hordes should be easier, and at that pts cost they'd be perfect. They would be relatively tanky, but damn deadly in a frenzied or double frensied 40 block, but still wouldnt be quite as good as sequitors were at 400.
Plus optically storm vermin being twice that of a normal clan rat feels right.
While plague monks should maybe have alittle less of a discount or no discount at all.
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Honeatly think it might still be worth it to bring 2 greyseers on foot to get the WLV off. One to warp token skitter leap and the otherto cast the vortex. That second one could throw out plague for funzies.
This is my list with the changes i think this is just under on points:
Grey seer on bell w/ master of magic + death frenzy
Warbringer
Warpseer w/supcious stone
Claw lord
Grey seer w/skitter leap
Grey seer w/plague
40x clan rats
40x clan rats
40x clan rats
Pendulum
WLV
Gravetide
Vermin tide
1990pts (i think)
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1 hour ago, Kramer said:
1 have 5 with, 5 without. Unbuffed I spike higher mixed but without keeping track I feel the 5 perform more consistently. Then there is of course the plan. If I drop them in with a frigate with a hero for scenarios it’s most likely the khemist (especially now it’s only 20pts more than a admiral) all rifles can get a better buff. Plus the better range
Buuuuut... the true, deepest part of my heart reason... unless it’s really better... I’m still taking more rifles because the mixed unit feels like admin 🤭
Too many extra tricky choices. Super annoying when one or two die, who do you take? When rolling you have to roll one after another instead of all at once. And when you do set them up/move them how close are you getting. Or do you just accept the fumigator not shooting.
You don't take the fumigator just take 2 sets of rifles and then the 3 concerted weapons. The fumigators don't even buff your other weapons, so why make it more complicated for a weapon that likely will never land shoot.
The list i'm using them in isn't exactly KO so it's just 20 thunderers for me, and the more thunderers the higher the odds of getting the concerted buffs of course.
that said average damage for 20 thunders with a Khemist buffing them is something like 14 damage. against 4+ saves
Where as 20 thunders with special weapons (no fumigators). Does 13 damage. against 4+ saves. Mind you the thunderers get better and worse depending on the targets save gets better or worse as your odds of successful doing damage goes up and down.
So for 140pts your getting basicly +1 damage at the end of the day. Also other buffs like +1 to hit or reroll 1s are pretty dramatic on the thunderers as again you start getting that buff chain more reliably. So reroll 1s is usualy +1/6th damage its more like +1.5/6th damage for these guys when all is said and done.
I was gonna fiddle with numbers of bringing the khemist with the mixed weapon folks buffing that cannons, but i got lazy. -
9 minutes ago, Dekison said:
just my thought and again useing wh40k
the MIXED part would mean the ranges are differnt and while that is versatile it would suck to have only 1-2 units be able to shoot from far away while some are more close to medium.
as a space marine unit that makes more sense since they are able to take the hits and even in close combat stand their ground.
the KO thunderes are almost more like the eldar ( the old ones) where you could sepcailize in a specefic ranged unit.
or in real life - why give a group or archers a few guys with slings and some with rocks to throw and expect them to "adaptive"
they gna get charged and rofl stomped.
so for a "dawrf" army that used to be pretty tough they get rolled especially the ranged units.
Well and this us why i said don't take the fumigator and did all my calculations with out it. As the other 3 have the dame range.
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I was curious why folks don't run thunderers with the mixed weapons?? Is it simply just a ranged thing?? or is it also just the lack of khemist buff.
When i do the math on it (or attempt to :P) I feel the thunderers are more cost effective with the mixed weapons than the atherkhemist+ thunderer rifles combo. Just wondering if there is more there i am missing?? Mind you this is not using the fumigators as getting in range for that is too tough.
As for getting into range, an ally wizard or two can bring the screamer bridge and send lots of thunderers up. -
3 hours ago, Malakithe said:
So i dont know where im going with this lol any help/suggestions to get this to a workable 2k? Edit: everything except for the EvoCats can be swapped/shuffled
- Stormhost: Celestial Vindicators
Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (220)
- General
- Trait: Single-minded Fury
- Artefact: Stormrage Blade
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Mount Trait: Pride Leader
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Knight-Incantor (140)
Lord-Ordinator (140)
5 x Liberators (100)
5 x Liberators (100)
5 x Liberators (100)
3 x Evocators on Dracolines (300)
War Machines
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)
Everblaze Comet (100)
Total: 1520 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 9
Wounds: 81
The lord ordinator doesn't break even on paying for himself until you have 3 ballista. So you could drop him and take a 3rd ballista, or you could drop the knight incator+comet for 2 more balista.
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Well also to a not small extent avainst many armies
10 wounds with a 6+ save isnt much different fro. 10 wounds with a 4+ save as both will die to a single round of combat from most killy units.
So in the case of skinks you are paying for the cheapest 10 bases you can find. So while as long as skinks are cheapest at 70 they are your best screening option.
More over the power of skinks is also that the unit has to be attacked first, as it can just walk away and be safe thus keeping the screen intact.
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THe best kind of movement tray are 5 man movement trays that are straight lines, as they can go single file through doors and over terrain, big 40 man units turn into 8 man units that can be lined up as need be and not generally taking off the trays for most of the game play.
For instance these are great by magnet baronSpoiler
Source
https://themagnetbaron.com/collections/trays-bases/products/movement-tray-ferrous-5x1-straight
I use these with my skaven, and general for the whole game i don't have to take them off because they line up more or less perfectly, evne for competive play they get so close no one really seems to care them being a tiny bit off some times.
I hope if GW does an AoS version they make something like this in mind, or they release it along side a change of how weapon ranges work. OR give the movement trays a special rule that lets you use them more easily.-
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So i wonder for KO why not run the deep strike frig, and bring lauchon with a knight incantor casting.
Could pitentially run the frig with 15 thunders, the knight incantor + lauchon (ghetto frig) with 20 thunderers, and a unit of 40 company with skyhooks??
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5 hours ago, Kramer said:
Wont work, give up.
Man... really?? I get your disappointed, but let's not put folks down.
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3 minutes ago, Iron Fist said:With new points:Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
Skyport: Barak-Mhornar
Leaders
Aetheric Navigator (80)
- General
Aether-Khemist (140)
Aether-Khemist (140)
Battleline
30 x Arkanaut Company (360)
- 9x Light Skyhooks
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)
- 3x Light Skyhooks
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)
- 3x Light Skyhooks
Units
14 x Grundstok Thunderers (270)
- 14x Aethershot Rifles
War Machines
Arkanaut Frigate (200)
- Main Gun: Heavy Sky Cannon
Arkanaut Frigate (200)
- Main Gun: Heavy Sky Cannon
Arkanaut Frigate (200)
- Main Gun: Heavy Sky Cannon
Battalions
Iron Sky Squadron (130)
Total: 1960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121look like pretty sexy list i think!
I'd find space for a lord ordinator i think.
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I feel like the thunder's being 90pts with cheaper friget/ironclad make just better KO list over all. The Thunders with only rifles already compete with skyhook for damage, if you compare only the hooks to the rifles the rifles do a tiny bit more damage (like 5-10%) this is when both are buffed with a chemist.
More over the thunders can be more impressive as the chemist buff is a less than 50% damage increase vs the skyhooks geting a 100% boost, meaning it might be worth just taking more thunders in some cases (depending on how pts work out for fitting stuff in your list). Where as the arkanauts don't even have that option, as it khemist+them or nothing.-
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Really hoping we get points changes to nerf plague monks & buff storm vermin. I believe a sweet spot exist where a all pestilence list can still be really good, but also a spot where stormvermin in mixed skaven/pure verminous can also still do really well.
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3 minutes ago, Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll said:
Luckily, the units you don't like or have budget concerns are all either bad or just inefficient. Reavers are bad as well, but you can easily mix Thralls in with Eels and keep a competitive army, though maybe not a tournament-winner like with full Eel lists. Shipwreck is free points-wise: it won't hurt anything but your pocket-book.
No word on new units unfortunately. Hopefully we get an Underworlds warband soon though, could use some more sculpts at the very least.
Eels+ thralls do just as well as Just eels due to taking tide caster general and flipping the tides table. So the eels+thralls were un changed really, while pure eels were mildly nerfed.
1 hour ago, Reuben Parker said:If you go full Mor’Phann infantry the list will at least be around 180 cheaper so an extra unit and render might squeeze in.
I will be interested to see if thralls still get unit discount including the reduction as 30 at 330 would be quite reasonable.
Yeah the thralls did get a good point drop, i'd definitly still try to find room for a soul scryer even with the points boost he's pretty pivotal.
5 hours ago, DragonRider said:How would some 1000point lists look like?
With pts changes and the new 1k format we aren't super sure. I think morrsarr will be very powerful if you bring a king as general as you can still take units of 6, which is the normal unit size we tend to take. That when compared to units of like which are very powerful. Thralls also shine as 10 man units, so they also won't do too poorly in the 1k format. The aspects of the storm and sea are actualy better in 1k pts as they aren't likely to die in a single turn, letting them take advantage of thier healing.
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6 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:
So after having learned out of my mistake (thanks to all of you wonderful, very trustworthy skavenplayers (really meant in a positive way and not ironically) I’ll be playing a small game of aos today against a good friend of mine.
I myself will be using:
heroes:200p
New Skaa (clawlord):100p(powerful, or savage overlord (not sure yet probaly the first one))
Grootos squigslayer(master moulder):100p(General; moulder supreme, and rabid crown)
battleline:480p
40Clanrats:200p
Red guard (20 Stormvermins):280p
others:270p
The thing-crushers(4rat ogres):200p
the squigburner(warpflamer):70p
total:950p
CP:1
It’s nothing special and I’m not intending in winning the game.
its more meant for a good time and well playing after a certain fluff.
although I’m still hoping that you guys will enjoy the battle report tomorrow, when I had the chance to write it down.
At the point the most skaven thing for me to do is to play against you, and when we get at the table say "You don't mind if i'm at 1020pts, yes-yes??" LMAO!!!
ANyway i think the list pretty fun. If you dropped the storm vermin to 10 a greyseer with death frenzy would really up the killy stabby
40 minutes ago, Cullen rothery said:4 screaming bells
from FAQ:
Q: If I roll the ‘A Stirring Beyond the Veil’ result on the Peal of Doom table for a Grey Seer on Screaming Bell, does this stop any other Screaming Bells from summoning a Verminlord if they roll the same result?A: No, it only applies to the model that the roll was being made for.
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12 hours ago, frostfire said:
Hey guys, how do you deal with heavy shooting armies? I've found plague monks and acolytes die out soon by some good shootings and their damage drops significantly when the model counts drop. Since we don't get to summon new rat, that could be a problem.
Those are like out of phase melee attacks and aren't all that great if you ask me. Like the flayers have to be in combat to not get a penalty to thier roll.
I'd say skyre is maybe the most as risk from real shooting which is stuff like kunin rook or KO arkanaunt companys with buffed sky hooks. Or well skyre with warp lightning cannons, jazzels, and acolytes.
Good shooting in my book is long ranged with high damage and good character sniping power. Otherwise they are a melee threat that our good melee units can deal with, and aren't really much different that a melee threat that are stronger melee units can deal with and our rat trap and general hold at bay.
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21 hours ago, gronnelg said:
C&C
Solid list there friend.
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4 hours ago, frostfire said:
Hey guys, how do you deal with heavy shooting armies? I've found plague monks and acolytes die out soon by some good shootings and their damage drops significantly when the model counts drop. Since we don't get to summon new rat, that could be a problem.
As i see it heavy shooting doesnt put out enough damage in the furrent meta to be q threat. Outside of maaaaybe skaven.
16 hours ago, Hagbean said:i've come up with;
For the verminus one I'd take a warbinger and a greyseer with death frenzy. I'd get the point by swaping out atleast one stormveemin unit with clanrats. Generally clan rats are better than storm vermin.
The skyre list doesn't seem to have a good target for the vigor dust injector outside of just the clanrats.
Moulder i can't comment as i havent messed with them at all
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4 hours ago, Maddpainting said:
If they did this then every army needs to stop doing that, BoC can take Bull and Dragons Ogres as BL, FEC can take Dragons for a couple examples. They wont do that, it takes away a large part of the game that players like and it isnt that unbalanced. Some Point changes stops spam.
Dragon orgres just aren't at the level of morrsarr guard, and we also already have ishlaen as battle line. I like ishlaen as battleline and morrsarr as not battle line.
Like FEC dragons as battle line aren't jack in comparison to morrsarr guard.
Same with many of the other choice. Morrsarr are decently durable, Really fast, and really killy. Having them as also battle line is too much. The only other unit that does this are witches from daughters of khaine, but it's more a need to fix hagnar which makes them too durable. -
I'd say i prefer the current system. 40k is kind of a ridiculous comparison but the stupidly nitty grittyness of that is goofy and hammers getting new players in the game when the simple act of puting your army together in the way most people play is overly complicated.
I also like to think on the battle field a block of 40 clan rats isn't realyl a block of 40 clan rats it could be be a unit sizing between 30 and 50, and we are just seeing that classic general top down veiw of the battle field. So optically i don't pain over individual models.
Lastly, I think the fact the folks still need to make a 1020pt list even in 40k because they want to add 1 more terminator or do like wise in AoS because they don't wanna be under by 30-60pt. While the game also gives you CP and endless spells to fill list with, and a triump if you r the lower pted player.
I don't know it just doesn't seem worth it to me, so i can add 3 clan rats to my list.-
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One thing about this meeting engagement format is that i don't know that it would really change match speed a 2 or 3 hour game might only see about 3minutes taken off the total game time.
The different wings being set up mid game are going to kind of slow the flow of the format, and i feel like with out big mega kill units (side from the few behamoths aloud) chaffe units that can hold table will still be big. Think clan rat squads, gloom spit git mobs, and other such difficult to remove units that in the current game are killable after potential 2 turns of combat by some of the most killing units, will likely last the whole game against most other units being dramatically limit in thier size and effectiveness.
That said i do think it might be a bit faster, and the tournament scene for 1k could be very compelling. So it would be cool to have a 2nd format that is completely different. Imagine the 2k format after the release of a few books becomes unbearablely terrible, we could potentially have a compelling 2nd format to work with.
Also i think 1k being a thing with compelling game play is a good move for GW to make if they seek to reduce the par to entry into the game as whole (i feel i said this last one already, but i must be too tired right now in rereading i can't find where i said as much T.T) -
5 hours ago, cranect said:
Oops I did have a grey seer just forgot to put it in the post above. I forgot gryph hounds were even a unit and I own some. Are the clan rats any good for finishing people off or as just chaff? They would definitely delay longer. Changing to clan rats also just allows the vermintide in addition.
just pick a target and roll the amount of damage done or taken by either clan rats or storm vermin. The clanrats general just preform better in every metric.
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5 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:
I see your point, still I doubt anybody will have problem playing against somebody with 20points more.
Unlike in 40k we basically don’t have the possibility of taking models away from a unit till it fits perfectly or almost into the exact point limit.
sure you could technically take out a hero and replace it with something else (which isn’t really a problem for me) but could still be a struggle for other players who only have like those models and nothing else to replace them with.
anyways I guess you could basically say that as long as your opponent is fine with it it shouldn’t be a problem.
same goes for events or tournis.
surely (hopfully) they’ll right back to you if the disagree with your point of view.
I'm abit anti going over points. Its sort of what get that extra cp for being under 50pts is for, the point of triumph, and that i feel rarely games are won or lost by being under 20 or 100 pts so why go over.
That said if your friends are chill with being over, go over, but I'd let them get there extra cp if the pts your over by is enough to let you get another cp.
43 minutes ago, cranect said:nobody can retreat after fighting
Gyrph hounds can
43 minutes ago, cranect said:best I could come up
Clan rats are better than stormvermin in almost every way. Take 3 units of 20 atleast.
Vermin tide is a better movenent blocker than the shards, by alot.
I'd take a grey seer over the bombadier if you have the pts. You dont need another warlock in that list IMO.
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AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion
in Skaven
Posted · Edited by mmimzie
single/double death frenzy clan rats with +2 attacks from skaven brew and claw lord, and if really need the damage the warbringer can command ability as well. With the warbringer buff they've taken out 20 man sequitor blocks reroll armor.
Edit: and not saying it's omg the best thing in the game, gonna win everything, perfect list. Just that's what the current list does, and seeing if folks having any cool alternative recommendations that fit well. I like the call clan rats because any near the verminlord or frenzy bell can be weaponized, giving me a larger potential damage block??? than say if i had 1 just unit of plague monks, the opponent would know to just avoid that block of plague monks.