Badlander86

This is a slippery slope because even with companies with "tighter" rules systems like Privateer Press, there is always going to be winners and losers and everything in between with every new addition. This saltiness is existent in many game systems where a major review/revision of rules comes about. Maybe KO power players (and there are many of those) bought into armies because they were at the time, above the curve or an army with a wider threat range in the wider...and I hate this term because I've heard it so much in other games...."meta". But now, we have a significant meta change in a new edition of the game in its infancy. Is KO good/bad/somewhere in between? Who can say? If someone top 3's a tournament of note somewhere in world, suddenly KO will be hot again regardless of how janky the list is. And quite frankly, I don't trust players anymore than the designers to make "balance" gameplay. We are all self-indulgent to some degree. What seems fine to me, might feel overpowered if you are on the receiving end. If a Stormcast player rolls utter nonsense in a few games, we might be inclined to believe Stormcast are not as good. Here is another example, and this is a stretch but bear with me here: Most of us are old enough to know what Street Fighter is (I hope. I'm old so maybe the new hotness is something else). We all know, Ryu is the main character of the game. Ryu is generally easy to pick up and it feels cool playing as him, most new players start as Ryu. After awhile, you may get bored of the basics of playing Ryu and try another character like say...I dunno, Cammy or Balrog that have almost no similarities to Ryu . The curve suddenly picks up and you need to put in more effort to pull off moves and combos and competitively, Cammy and Balrog don't have the range of Ryu and is harder to use, but a good Cammy/Balrog/whatever player can beat an average Ryu player if he/she knows what he is doing. Then we go to the upper end of the spectrum. Lets say Street Fighter pro players, who are they using? Usually characters like Ryu or Akuma (Ryu on steroids) that are known to be basic in their inputs. Of course, these guys have their characters down pat, they know their subtleties and combos like the back of their hand. The "pros" need to gravitate to something familiar, with the least amount of effort and once mastered, with the lowest amount of variance. Yet why is it even at such high play, with money on the line, do we see guys coming into to play I dunno, Zangief or something on twitch against players like Infiltration or Daigo? Why not just play Ryu and clones? Because its not fun. Sometimes beating guys you know are above the curve is where the mark of a true competitor is. If every team in the world rolled over for Real Madrid because Ronaldo plays, of for the Lakers because LeBron plays, what would be the point of having a game? Not everything is Moneyball. It's why we play the games. The Stormcast Eternals are Ryu. They are meant to be good, easy for newer players to pick up and feel great then they will either hit a wall or get bored. Even the design of the Stormcast are meant for them to be easy to pick up from a hobby perspective.

So I had a few small games at 1000 points against the new Stormcast. Lost 2 in devastating fashion, won one 1 decisively. Here are my thoughts: - At minimum loadouts, Unit vs Unit, Stormcast battlelines eat Arkanaut companies alive if they have a chance to attack first. - Weird as it sounds (for Dwarfs), it seems Mobility is the key factor for KO as it was in previous edition which I only played in sparringly. Its all bout identifying the weakpoint in the line as it pushes up. This is assuming you are playing Barak Zilfin and chooses to go 2nd. At 1000 pts, the table size plays a part. - If you hang back to shoot, you are going to get charged. And with Cavalry and hero units with a 12" movement and the new 36" artillery piece, there is really no range you are safe it. - As it turns out, charging in with Skypikes is respectable. 6 attacks (maxed out on 3 dudes) and D3 damage should put a dent in something. Preferrably on a Hero or Monster. If you +1 to those attacks using the Aether-Khemist, your chances go WAY up and your opponent's hero or monster doesn't benefit from Look out sir. Its tough but as I suspected, our average statline can be balanced out by our movement shenanigans.

I am actually having a bit of Painters' regret on my models as the Barak Urbaz colors are warming up to me, especially the blue steel look of some of the metal bits. Unfortunately I havent seen much more concept art or photography to see how the paint scheme of Urbaz ships look like.

Very nice! Did you use Non-Metallic Metals painting techniques on the swords? Don't let the overall salt of the thread discourage you from the hobby. The Kharadron Overlords are still fine kits and models and I am happy I took the time to build and paint them in my hobby time. Pain in the ass to transport though. No helping that I am afraid. Stats and rules can be change, physics not so much.

That would require a rules system on some form of allegiance ability onto itself. Maybe if there is a wider Duardin allegiance that can be expanded to include options for Aether weapons or Runes or very special traits. It would motivate me to consider purchasing outside of my current faction.

I think its a case of being written into a corner rules wise. I harken this back to Tau and the "no psykers" perceived weakness. KO are in a simlar situation. 7th Ed was heavy on the Psychic Phase which for the most part was pointless to Tau and they were still an army with questionable statlines. I guess it depends on how GW wants to swing this. Are KO an Elite shooty army or a shooty tanky armor or a glass hammer? Its a case of them having these awesome model designs, told to make some rules (FYI, GW games testing and rules has confirmed that they get the Model designs first then come up with the rules for them. I cite the interviews that MiniWarGaming did with some members of GW) but to ensure they weren't too good. Let's face some facts: - Stormcast Eternals are the face of the game. So they have to be good enough to play, a little above the curve and easy to paint and assemble. So it makes sense for GW to push these out as much as possible. - Death for a longer time had cool models but lacklustre rules and little to no narrative but now they are the face of the main opposition in this edition so likewise with the first, they SHOULD be easy to pick up and above the curve. - Game balance is a questionable concept and most game systems get it wrong. Yes, the Overlords are in a questionable spot points and statwise but I have seen people do wonders with lower tiers lists and decks in other games. This feels like a skill-tester army at this point. - The Overlords fluff don't really lend themselves well to taking part of the larger narrative in the current lore.

Short answer? To make magic more appealing.

How old is AoS and Kharadron Overlords comparatively? My guess would be all the factions would get new stuff based on the order of orignal releases. So Stormcast has got their stuff representing Order, Nighthaunts are the newness for Death, Destruction is long overdue for a new subfaction or expansions to current armies, and Chaos is probably getting Darkoath stuff as a faction soon. To say nothing of factions like Sylvaneth and Ironjaws which were one of the original factions at the start of the game. So, its probably going to be a slow year if you are only invested in KO as I plan to be. Hopefully it will pay off.

Ok, so is the requirement to be 3 inches away from the enemy unit really a "nerf" or just a formality? If you were already locked in combat with an enemy unit, (which is 3 inches anyway), its not like you could shoot out of combat to disengage or pull out of combat. Sounds like they don't want yo-yoing Skywardens and Endrinriggers which are pretty mobile as is. On T2 if you are on Barak Zilfin, you get your free move up of 8 inches in your Ironclad, disembark forward of the Ironclad within 3 inches and you've already got an 11 inch movement shenanigan of which you can still move the 12 inches and get in shooting range with the Rivet Guns, depending on the table. Seems like value in the movement phase at very least. Whether you run 2 or 3 Grapples, if the intention is to close the distance for charges, I think the rules change is ok. Its just unlikely your Riggers/Wardens will survive the combat after charging if they don't kill everything. I am tempted to get another 2 boxes of Endrinriggers and run them as a 12 man squad with 3 grapples. At 480 points its, a pretty big investment but in 2000 points, it actually fits into a big Iron Sky Command build: 480 from the Riggers, 360 from the Battleline tax, 420 in the Ironclad+150 points to the Battalion cost, 160 for the Khemist which now more than ever seems to be an Auto-Include, 130 for and Endrinmaster and 80 for a Navigator with the Aetheric Loupe for 2 or 3 unbinds if you give him the Command trait. Throw in a 220 Frigate to complete the 2 ship drop list and at least none of your Arkanauts will be foot slogging. Rounds out to 2000 points with 1 battalion and starting off with 2 Command Points. I am not sure about how to equip the ships though. Aetherspheric Endrins does not suit the Ironclad. It attracts way too much attention and would be better with the Last Word. But it seems wasted on the Frigate unless the intention is to capture a far off objective.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/age_of_sigmar_kharadron_overlords_errata_en.pdf Based on the FAQ it does say at the Start of your Hero Phase but unless there was an Errata for the Aetherspheric Endrins rule, I am inclined to believe that the dropping in and disembarking is done simulataneously (if you so choose to disembark in the Hero phase you choose to deploy it). I assume like special abilities that allow to Run/Shoot or Run/Charge, this ability supersedes the initial restriction.

Yeah, the Thunderers save never made sense. They are clearly wearing way more armor than the Arkanauts but have the same save. Here's a gameplay question: in general, give the choice with the new roll off for double turn rules...would you choose to go first or 2nd? I think 2nd still suits the gameplay of hoping your enemy moves up enough inches for more firepower to be put into them but not sure sure how Malign sorceries affects that situatuion. They are unlikely to cast a Malign Sorcery on the first turn. The placements for most of the spells are too close. So going 2nd still seems like the wiser choice.

Don't mistake my tone for utter abandonment. I will still continue to collect and paint Kharadron Overlords and I do know how things like this work. What sucks today will be broken tomorrow and vice versa. I will however need to be a lot more selective with my buying which again, sucks because most of the KO line is cool. As I said in the previous thread, this feels like the KO is going to have to be played a finesse army by player with a higher skill than myself both in terms of list building (I have always hated the process of min-maxing in ANY game). Even subtle decisions like going first or second , deepstriking or regular deployments need to be measured and reconsidered before committing, knowing how merciless the dice gods can be. In other words, KO is going to be playing AoS on Very Hard Mode. Some people welcome the challenge, some people don't. I guess it depends on what you started the collection for. My concern is for the casuals like myself whom buy collections of models because we think they look cool and that the faction is mainly about "A" which lets say is our ships, but is actually about "B" which is actually specific infantry shooting. I am not opposed to more Dakka but I don't appreciate the bait and switch. Its like imagine buying into Imperial Knights the Codex thinking the army is all about the big robot...but is actually about the Skiitari, and as much other Imperial ****** you can min-max into the list. I may grope about the lack of new stuff but it may be mainly because we are seeing cool new stuff for other factions everyday whilst Kharadron Overlords seem to be on the back burner for the time being. On the bright side, I might be able to get Arkanauts with skyhooks on Ebay if the salt levels are so high that power players decide to liquidate their collections.

Darkling Coven has 3 Battleline choices of Elite troop choices (Executioners alone are deadly and problematic enough) with a higher than average statline, special rules and access to Magic. The can run and charge to close distances and if they spike on charge distances, suddenly shooting and range advantages fall short. I've seen GHB 2018. No new allegiance abilities for KO as a faction. I think this isn't a good start to AoS 2.0 for the Kharadron Overlords.

My 2 cents is this: -At the cost of the lack of magic and the smaller range of models to choose from if you are the type of player whom prefers faction purity (working with Umgi? Never. Good for easy money of course), and the whole thing of the Overlords being about the boats, the boats really really need reworking on their statline. A higher than Average save would be a start. As it stands, aside from the boats and the transportation shennanigans, the Overlords are comparatively very vanilla.