Badlander86

Its a volume thing with 3 shots on each Rigger at -1 Rend. Also, -2 Rend and wounding on 2s for the Endrinriggers makes them KOs premier melee combatants especially against armies with higher Saves. The D3 damage is a gamble most people are willing to take. I would agree that with the prevalence of Nighthaunts these days where Rend is a non-factor, Skywardens do feel better against Nighthaunts. On a modelling note, I don't feel comfortable with the Skymine attachment parts as they seem very easy to snap.

Nice. Did the Drill Cannons manage to inflict Mortal Wounds on anyone? You buffed them along with the Rifles? I'd drop Breath of Morgrim for The Last Word though since as you say, the Ironclad is going to be your wall at will inevitably draw a lot of hate and charges. 8 shots on each charge (re-rolling 1s if you use Make Every Shot Count) would certainly help to thin out the swarms or mobs coming at you.

And on that note, allow me to share one of my latest attempts at trying to have a proper flight stand for my boats. I got fed up using clear acrylic rods. 3mm to 5mm rods are too thin to hold a Frigate up and 6-7mm rods required some major drilling and scrapping. So I decided to try out another method. Had some old Bandai flight stands from their Stage Act Stands sets and tried filling up the hole of the Frigate peg with Green Stuff. Waited for it to dry then drilled about 1mm hole deep enough of the peg of the flight stand to be pushed it. Sits quite well so far. Tempted top try it on my Ironclad but the Ironclad seems ok for now while my Frigates keep snapping off their rods.

I would ask your friend to really consider what he wants out of the game/hobby. Because at the moment, game wise KO isn't in a good place and hobby-wise, while the KO models lines are among some of the best stuff in the AoS range, it also seems to be among the pricier models in terms of real world money. He isn't going to get trounced but right now its mainly 70/30 chances because of how much focus Magic has in this edition along with some major changes to the Kharadron Overlords rules to make the faction less...potent.

There has to some match ups that favor Kiting. Khorne is going to lose at least half of their army after a solid round of shooting. Orruks and Grots would potentially break on Battleshock. If you roll 6s on the Drill Cannons wounds, you can spread D3 Mortal Wounds around, hopefully killing Heroes or damaging to the point of your opponent having to rethink their opening moves. Shock and awe style.

Guys, how effective is kiting in real tabletop? In theory, because we need to hit hard from a distance, we should be maxing out of threat distance. A friend of mine who is a lot more knowledgeable then me in terms of the game has been observing me play Zilfin and thinks that as it stands, its not really the best Allegiance ability to work with. He recommends Urbaz based on his reading of the ability and after I explained how hard KO as a faction leans on the Aether-Khemist. He laid it out to me as such where if I insist on taking Endringgers, they need to be able to "kite" and after I explained the limitations of the Grapple Launchers now, he stated the obvious choice is to use the Ironclad or any boat of choice with a Wounds characteristic of 10 as an "Anchor". Basically, its a hit and run list with the Aether Khemists handing out buffs to as many things as possible. On T1, look for the "soft spot" in an enemy line keeping in mind where you want to put your Ironclad as an "anchor", and use Fleetmaster as necessary. Disembark your Endringgers 3 inches forward, us 1 Aether Khemist to buff the Rivet Guns Profile and Drill Cannon Profile. Then in the Movement Phase, move your Endriggers up their maximum distance (+3 inches if you deployed them forward) and then move your Ironclad (the Khemist handing out the first buff should be embarked into the Ironclad after the movement phase) into a position within 24" and preferably behind a terrain feature that won't be easy form non-flying armies to get to. Then in the shooting phase you get 24 shots with the Rivet Guns and 6 shots with the Drill Cannon. Ironclad can also fire with its Great Sky Cannon and Torpedoes, after giving itself "Make Every Shot count". If the round of shooting goes well, you can choose to grapple towards the enemy if the right kind of terrain or model allows, or grapple at the Ironclad to get out of dodge and get another round of buffs from the Aether-Khemists. Seems very logical and fun but placement of models and table size do matter. It allows the Riggers/Skywardens to yo-yo safely in and out of enemy firing range to get buffs where required. The only problem is with enemy summoning and other teleportation, they might cause a problem for the Grapple Launcher's new rule about 3" of enemy models and the "Direct Straight Line" Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords Skyport: Barak-Urbaz Additional Footnote: There's No Trading With Some People LEADERS Aether-Khemist (160) - General - Command Trait : Fleetmaster - Artefact : Aethershock Earbuster Aether-Khemist (160) - Artefact : Aethersight Loupe UNITS 10 x Arkanaut Company (120) - 3 x Light Skyhooks 10 x Arkanaut Company (120) - 3 x Light Skyhooks 10 x Arkanaut Company (120) - 3 x Skypikes 12 x Endrinriggers (480) - 3 x Drill Cannons - 3 x Grapnel Launchers 9 x Endrinriggers (360) - 3 x Grapnel Launchers WAR MACHINES Arkanaut Ironclad (420) - Main Gun : Great Sky Cannon - Great Endrinworks : Breath of Morgrim (Barak-Urbaz)

There is that. Something to note is as compared to a lot of factions,KO doesn't really have much in the way of situational Mortal Wounds. Like Executions from Dark Coven, Mortals Wounds when hitting on 6+. Maybe Give the Thunderers an ability called Entrenched which if they didn't move (excluding Disembarking), during the Shooting Phase, Hit Rolls of 6 are Mortal Wounds BUT they cannot use the "Keep Your Distance" so it plays into the Risk/Reward system...which is sorely lacking in other factions. By which I mean those factions are only rewarded with abilities that pose little to no risks.

I dunno, I would rather hit on 3+ with 35 shots with a 10 man squad of Thunderers(with a Khemist buff from 18") vs Arkanauts and their painful 4+ to Hit. The 4+ Save feels better to. I see the combos they want us to play: Use the Frigates to screen our Thunderers, if they are charged drop the mine on a 4+ (which if needs to be reliable should be a 3+ but hey, wishful thinking) which forces the charging unit to go into combat last, retreat with the Thunderers and pump them full of lead next turn. The synergies are there but feels like something is missing. My luck with the Arkanauts has been atrocious so far.

With KO bandwagoners falling off the hype train, I think whatever changes they've made last round are going to stick. There are at least 4 more factions trickling out (Moonclan? Darkoath? Malektih Aelves? Tyrion Aelves?) so I think until they've pushed out their new products, the only balances we are going to see are within the current metagame favorites to make the new stuff more appealing. Or...it could be an internal balancing problem. I think they don't want to make the same "mistake" giving KO free reign of their movement shenanigans. If they make Thunderers Battleline, no one would play Arkanauts, if they make Frigates cheaper, something has to get more expensive...etc etc. I've said it before, KO feels like a faction that one subtle change might be the difference between meh and broken.

Wow. They really want to let Wizards cast spells don't they. Another few question then. If I insist on running Zilfin for fluff reasons but forgo equipping any of my Skyvessels with Aetherspheric Endrinworks, instead going with The Last Word, is that list legal? Also, If I accomplish the requirements of the Iron Sky Command battalion by bring the 3 Heroes (Aetheric Navigator, Aether-Khemist and/or Endrinmaster) in any combination, but choose to include the Admiral in the army, is the Admiral able to be embarked in the Ironclad? It seems very clunky but my hope is if I go T1 (which I will have to now because of the changes to Disembarking and There is Always a breeze), in my Hero Phase I will use Batten the Hatches and Fire at Will from the Ironclad and take my free 8 inch move. Then run 14" because we always roll a 6 on running, hopefully in a position where you can do some damage by shooting since the Admiral allows the ship it is embarked on to run and shoot on the same turn, then safely unload the rest of the force. Keeping the free move in your back pocket feels redundant and since now it makes more sense to go first to be able to disembark and have your units do something.

Can I confirm if the rule for "There's always a Breeze if you look for it" has changed to prevent disembarking? The June FAQ states : Change the last sentence of the first paragraph to: ‘It can act normally for the remainder of the turn.’ So no more free move and dump out?

Urbaz does seem to be the way to go with KO's heavy reliance on the Aether-Khemist as our only viable boosting ability. Being able to add +1 to 4 different weapon profiles to several units seems reliable. I just wish it wasn't the case. Maybe my dice rolls haven't been kind or my opponent's saves are just too timely. Especially with Nighthaunts and some other factions where the almost have 2 to 3 different save rolls.

Well, on minor change if I could have is the rule for Heavy Skyhooks. It doesn't make sense that the ship moves towards the target it hits but should instead be the target being pulled towards the firing ship. This could help pull enemy heroes out of Look out sir range or combat with any of our units. More importantly, closer to our guns or charge range. There is still a lot of thing I think GW doesn't want to commit to. Game balance is quite delicate for the KO. Make certain changes and you might have an extremely broken faction than everyone will bandwagon on, not until they figure out how to balance out the other factions. As it stands, a lot of the factions carried over from WHFB are a little above the curve to throw a bone to the old Fantasy players and make them viable. I get some of the hesitation. They don't want to make a faction that they don't want to push as being too powerful, not until they are done with their push of their newer models. And even then, the whole shooting vs combat struggle is something GW has always struggled with in general. As it stands, the KO is a glass cannon shooting bean bags right now. I am having fun but I will admit being salty with the amount of special rules, charge shennanigans and other special rules other factions have. Quite frankly, the battleline statline is designed to be painfully average in a faction that seems confused to either hang back and shoot vs rush up the board and fight. And with how fast our unrestricted some factions are with running and charging, and some factions have 36" weapons with better Stats than ours, we lose out either way.

So I had a 1000 points game with a fresh player running Stormcast Eternals. He had 2 Ballitae and a Lord-Ordinator. To avoid confusing him with rules overload, we agreed to run our forces as stock, meaning just referring to rules as stated on the warscrolls and the basic rules, so no allegiance abilities, no equipment etc. Man, that ballista is brutal. Rolling to see number of wounds feels very broken for both modes of firing. If it were just for the Rapid Fire Mode or vice versa, maybe it can still be fair but having 2 of them hitting on 3+s and then rolling number of wounds and then -2 rend? Yeah, its no joke. I lost the game but I didn't want to squash someone who is just getting into the game with tons of rules. But yeah, SCE are Age of Sigmar on easy mode to be sure. That being said, I am highly tempted to get that damn Lord-Ordinator now. I am a bit torn, one one hand, I want to try running the Grundstock Escort Wing in Barak Zilfin because it opens up a lot of possibilities on your shooting turn (drop in a Frigate, unload your 9 or 12 Skywardens and some Arkanauts, then declare All Hands to Guns to reroll misses? Seems good). Focus Fire on T1 into a hero or unit that just has to die. If you have a Lord-Ordinator tucked away among your Gunhaulers, hitting on 2+ on either the Sky Cannon or the Drill Cannon seems very tempting. But I don't want to buy and assembly 9 to 12 Skywardens.... On the other hand, Barak Zilfin running Iron Sky Squadron seems is more in keeping with my current collection. I just wish both the abilities weren't so...meh. And the Barak Zilfin Iron Sky Squadron's added benefit of running Endrinriggers seems quite pointless since nothing in the Battalion's abilities benefit them, unless I am missing something from an FAQ that allows the Endrinriggers to benefit from Bold Privateers? Anyway, to me at least, Grundstock Escort Wing is a good "I choose to go first" army which doesn't fare badly if you go 2nd either. But man, Iron Sky Squadron is a definite go second type force.

The July update it out, and the Thunderer's Mortar is still 36". Is this safe to confirm?

It would certainly help shore up some of the faction's weakpoints. But it will need to be balanced with an eye to the effectiveness of Magic. GW wants Magic/Sorcery/Summoning to be an integral part of this edition. Hiding a majority of our forces in boats really reduces the effectiveness of such spells

My guess ia because KO is supposed to be the exact opposite of Fyreslayers. Fyreslayers are supposed to the melee dwarfs with stand and deliver style of play while KO are meant to be the shooty dwarfs with a mobility and range game. Both versions of Dwarfs have units in their model line which are exceptions to the rule. And after getting the GHB 2018 and looking at some of the other factions, maybe we are quick to assume KO are in a bad spot. New models would be great of course but for now maybe we should all work to see how our current stuff plays out.

Here is my list if anyone is interested. Going to need someone to rules check it because I am not sure whether I can have another Great Endrinwork if I have a Warscroll Battalion. I know it applies to Artefacts of Power but no idea on Endrinworks. Skyport: Barak-Zilfin - Additional Footnote: There's No Reward Without Risk LEADERS Aether-Khemist (160) - General - Command Trait : Doughty Champion - Artefact : Aethershock Earbuster Aetheric Navigator (80) - Artefact : Aethersight Loupe Aether-Khemist (160) Aetheric Navigator (80) UNITS 10 x Arkanaut Company (120) - 3 x Light Skyhooks 10 x Arkanaut Company (120) - 3 x Skypikes 10 x Arkanaut Company (120) - 3 x Aethermatic Volley Guns 12 x Endrinriggers (480) - 3 x Grapnel Launchers WAR MACHINES Arkanaut Frigate (240) - Main Gun : Heavy Sky Cannon - Great Endrinworks : Aetherspheric Endrinds (Barak-Zilfin Skyvessel) Arkanaut Frigate (240) - Main Gun : Heavy Sky Cannon - Great Endrinworks : The Last Word BATTALIONS Iron Sky Squadron (130) TOTAL: 1930/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2 WOUNDS: 102

How tanky is the Celestant Prime? I think Gunhaulers feel better in multiples. Maybe instead of just having 1 Gunhauler, you should drop it, your 3-man squad of Endrinriggers and get another Frigate so at least most of your Arkanauts aren't foot-slogging. If you could part with Brokk, you could upgrade to an Ironclad and all three of your Battlelines would be embarked. You would still have points to spare if you really want that 3 man-Endrinrigger team or maybe invest in Anti-magic with the Aetheric Navigator or an Endrinmaster who if you keep him embarked on the Ironclad, makes it more tanky as you have chances to heal up at least 1 wound each turn, 2 if you get lucky with Tireless Endrinriggers

Ok, so I need to ask this about Battalions. Say I am running Iron Sky Squadron. I have all the required units. I bring along my 2 faction heroes that are not part of the battalion and my 3rd battleline plus a few other stuff. Can the Heroes be embarked on my Frigates even if they are not part of the battalion?

You are likely still bring him for the +1 to hit, especially from Range 24". Positioning him is going to be key because with Gunhaulers flying about, keeping every war machine within 6" (not wholly within) might be a challenge. Since its an aura and not an activated ability that you need to roll for, and Mov 5" and access to On the Double, shouldn't be too difficult

Can the Lord Ordinator be brought in Barak Thrying Grundstock Warscroll Battlion as an Ally? Suddenly Gunhaulers hitting on 2+ from 24" seems a lot more appealing.

You're right. As an obvious and ignorant snub to baseball, AoS is supposed to be fun. I can understand your anger if Kharadron Overlords was an old faction with 10, 15 years of history in a game just as old. AoS like many of its factions are new and there is going to be a feeling out process with checks and balances. And if GW never gets around to it, C'est la vie. At least I have an army I am proud I put time and effort into painting, and I can still run them in casual games with friends.

The Thrying Grundstock List doesnt seem too bad. Unfortunately the Skywardens feel like an unnecesary tax but if you max them out at 9 guys, 3 of which with Drill Cannons, you have more than a good chance of denting something . You could use the Focus Fire ability to maximum effect for your 3 Gunhaulers, whether for the Cannon or the Drill. With the speed of the Gunhaulers you can play a run and gun style battle, hitting on 3+ on a specific enemy unit, re-rolling 1s thanks to the grudge. Exploding Drill for is actually a good deterrent or counter to Look Out Sir actually...hmmm... The Thrying Grundstock Escort list lets you take another Frigate but I don't think you will need it. Use the grudges (you should at least get 2 in the worset case) run your Arkanauts to be bait or contest objectives or hold up chaff, hang back and shoot whatever takes the bait. Use the Thunderers only as a last resort. In fact keep them loaded up in the Frigate and only drop them in when you absolutely need to max out on shooting. With all the necessary taxes (3 battleline, 3 Gunhaulers, 1 Skywarden unit of 9 optionally, 10 man unit of Thunderers, 1 Frigate with a Skyhook maybe and your Battalion cost) you are looking at maybe 1770, 1800 pts. With only 200 pts to work with, either drop the skywardens to a minimum and you can bring Brokk in. But I like the idea of 9 Skywardens, 3 with Drills, hitting on 3+ with Focus Fire and re-rolling 1s to the grudge. Throw an Aetherkhemist into the mix and you have 6 Drill shots. If you minimize your Thunderers and max out on a 12 man unit of Skywardens with 4 Drills....I think you get the picture. Its tempting. A highly mobile army with a significant ranged punch.

Hi Hannibal, at 1000 pts, the Ironclad is too much of a points sink for you to have in an already smaller game. With the changes to shooting (if you aren't aware, if your model is engaged i.e. within 3 inches of an enemy model or unit, you can only shoot at the models you are currently engaged with), the Ironclad can be tied up effectively by chaff or stubbornly tanky units. In terms of firepower though the Ironclad hands down has the advantage, with 8 to 10 Carbine shots (a special ability gives it +2 to Attacks), the Torpedoes and Aethermatic Volleygun (optional weapon). It has a better save value (+4) and a ton of special rules which are dependent on dice rolls. The problem is, if you run it and your 2 battlelines, your effectively more than 1/2 your points in 3 units. Against a horde army, you might be severely outnumbered and the board might get crowded enough that your mobility doesn't count for much. I would suggest going for the Frigate. At 240 points and your 2 battleline, you have 480 points, freeing up the rest either for more heroes or units. The battleforce box comes with the Skywardens/Endrinriggers. Both versions are now 3 man squads at 120 points. Statwise, Endrinriggers are better (for now, things can change) so I suggest going with what you like in terms of the looks. If I were to recommend you next purchase, aside from another unit of Arkanauts get the Heroes: Aether-Khemists and a maybe a Navigator for anti-magic. If you are ready to upscale to 2000 points, then you should consider the Ironclad because you do have more points to work with and the table size (which is a factor) can really help in your list-building.