Undeadly
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Posts posted by Undeadly
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Just now, EnixLHQ said:
Drink their tears, for they give you strength. You are the commander of an army that feeds on fear and grief, after all.
What bothers me the most is fielding my models and being asked if I'm playing NH or LoG, and if I answer anything other than LoG I'm told I'm playing them wrong. The outcome no longer matters if they salted the table before we even play.
I'm the type of player who will tell you, on your turn, not to forget a key ability. So I appreciate opponents who like to work with me when I play than against me. These players make the game fun, and I try my best to foster that feeling whenever I'm at the table.
Those are the best kind of opponents; those that are more than happy make the game fair. Even if it is as simple as reminding your opponent of rules or special abilities.
Although, I will contend that LoG is probably not even the best way to play NH. That title belongs to bare bones LoN, since you can pretty much everything in that book. No kidding, LoS is my second go to instead of LoG, simply because being able to cast better and get good artifacts makes them a really appealing choice.
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Honestly, at this point, I hardly think of things in Nighthaunt in terms of lethality; because, lets to be honest, about the deadliest things we can throw on the field is fully tricked out Bladegheists, Olynder or a huge horde of Grimghasts, and none of those are really game changing units.
Instead, when making a list, I usually think in terms of adding *just* enough damage to sucker punch a really scary unit, and the rest in mobility, durability and screening. An army that can't reach the objective's can't win, simple as that. To that end, I usually only add a 10 or 15 man Squad of Bladegheist, and then just load up on screens and chaff, with the idea to drop the gheists, cripple what I need to, and then force the enemy to try and kill the rest of my army before the game is over.
Let me put it bluntly: Nighthaunt will ***never*** win a game purely through brute force. Our units are simply, in other words, rubbish in the combat department. You need to harry the enemy, pick your fights, strike where you absolutely must, and then force them to come to you. Even the mighty Grimghast will simply evaporate once they run into a properly buffed out unit.
Now, none of this is the same for LoG, but seeing as to how LoG is a mico-faction in Forbidden Power, I wouldn't put much stock into them.
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40 minutes ago, Uvatha said:
Arkhan being a Monster (because of his mount I guess), he is excluded from the benefits of "Look Out Sir" rule?
I mean, it hardly matters; the Dolorous Guard is a pretty rock solid defense. Pricey, yes, but 20 wounds for Arkhan is pretty freaking great.
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So, I have been doing a bit of theory crafting around a really low drop list for Nighthaunt, and this is what I've gotten so far:
Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Leaders
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
- Artefact: Cloak of the Waxing Moon
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Wychlight Lantern
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- Artefact: Midnight Tome - Reaping Scythe
Battleline
5 x Hexwraiths (140)
5 x Hexwraiths (140)
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
30 x Chainrasp Horde (240)
Units
15 x Bladegheist Revenants (270)
Battalions
Chainguard (120)
Dolorous Guard (140)
Emerald Host (80)
Forgotten Scion (120)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Vault of Souls (20)
Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 155So, for starters, this is a 2-drop army. This is one of the big advantages of the list, since you can decide when and where you want to drop your units, and how to force your opponent to move. And thanks to absolute oodles of CP you get, as well as Artifacts, you can deck your heros out how ever you choose to, as well as claim the title of fastest army in AoS once more.
The Dreadblade general will be the one mobilizing the army, pulling your Bladegheist's, Hexwraiths and Chainrasps where they are needed, and out of danger. One thing to keep in mind is that this list is so mobile, that you can pretty much deploy your units anywhere on the board, and thanks to the high CP, your more likely to be able to get those 9's to charge, though not that you should be aiming for that. Instead, this should be an army about controlling your opponents movements with your Chainrasp hordes, and using your Hexwraiths and Bladegheists to help knock out heavy enemy hitters. Bog down your opponents forces, and force them to wade through your hordes, all the while you control the objectives.
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2 minutes ago, Lebenski said:
Can someone please confirm for me that both the KoSos’s command ability and the Dolorus Guard ability will affect both the rider and mount for Hexwraiths?
Meaning that a unit buffed with the command ability will be dishing out 8 (4 for rider, 4 for mount) attacks per model on the charge?
It would be correct; the battalion and CA say add +1 attacks to all Melee weapons.
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1 hour ago, The_Dudemeister said:
Can't you just take them in units of 16? Makes perfect sense for GW just like the glorious Spirits of Fellblood battalion in the Start Collecting Malignant box with the Mortis Engine. Gee, thanks GW 😅
But nay, these battalions will have great powercreep and singlehandedgly make Nighthaunt competitive again. The winds of Shyish are whispering it in my ear. Not kidding, I'm actually full of hope.
Honestly, at this point, beggars can't be choosers. I'll take what ever they give us.
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So, question, but I have two Feast of Bones sides of the Ossiarchs, but I'm having a hard time deciding on how to build the Stalkers or Guard. Which is the better, in your opinion.
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After getting the Iron Golems warband from Warcry, I can confirm that they do use a 28mm base, which is bigger them.a 25mm but smaller than 32mm.
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1 minute ago, SwampHeart said:
Yeah I'm just thinking about it from the perspective of my HoS list. I feel like I'd have way more trouble with PG than Blackguard. In a 'mirror' (between my ideal BG list and HoS) I win the drop contest with HoS and deploy to take the aggressive first turn where I'm entirely capable of making a turn one charge with multiple units - KoS moves 26" before charge with a 1 CP expenditure, 28 with cogs, Bestigors move 16/18", same thing and all charges are at +1/3 with cogs. You'd have to screen aggressively but I feel like the only screening option are the shooters and if I can get through those its still a win.
I'm not saying this guaranteed or that you'll face that type of set up regularly, its just something I think about because of my HoS army.Thats true; but one good thing to keep in mind is what units we have access to. Darkshards would be more along the lines of a secondary chaff, only when needed; the real defenders in my list would probably be either something super tanky, like a phalanx of Phoenix Guard, or a big unit of Sequitors, or something I can throw away for cheap, like a few units of Dreadspears or Freeguild guard, which I can get 40 wounds on the table with a paltry 320 or 280 respectively, both of which still have a 4+ save.
The problem I think Slaanesh especially will have with them is that due to how bonkers Hallowheart is magic wise, even Slaanesh will struggle to shut them down entirely, which when coupled with some additional shooting from something cheap or deadly, like Darkshards or Irondrakes, means that if you don't break my front line, and loose the roll off, you will get horribly punished via a mountains worth of short range fire power. That leaves my unit of Black Guard to go in for the kill, speeding over to the objectives to mop up who ever is there.
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29 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:
My biggest concern with Blackguard is what happens when you play Slaanesh or FEC and they swing before you.
@PJetski You get to pick a 2nd spell on all those casters (except the Frostie) - not that it super matters but just as a heads up.Thats precisely why you bring those super fast Darkshards and Sorceress, along with a some sturdy chaff. A Terrorgheist and Keeper of Secrets are both scary hombres, but if you can smack them with enough spell power or fire power, then suddenly they aren't quite so terrifying. Although CP expensive, a fully buffed unit of darkshards can easily get in range and outright kill a KoS or at least wound it. And thats only if it didn't get any wounds what so ever from your hero phase. And even if they do decide to charge, you still have your MW on a 4+ suicide bomb to finish them off.
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Just now, mmimzie said:
First page my list is there. I think blackguard as where it's at. With wildform you can go 15" and charge with +3. While darkshards can also be buffed to get early reach. I don't personally rate the dragon super high though as it's range is very limited.
I'd say that bigger base, higher wounds/movement, and the Flying movement makes her really invaluable; she helps keep the buffs going, keeps up with the units themselves as they go blazing off without her. The spell can be fantastic as well, since it can deal a ****** ton of wounds on units that have pretty crappy saves. Plus, her other command ability can help Blackguard get even more blendy.
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Why no love for Blackguard and Sorceress on Black Dragon? Black Guard seem crazy fast and crazy deadly, when combined with a Sorceress' command ability and her mere presence. And speaking of the Sorceress, she can easily blend away whole swathes of hordes with a deadly combo of her breath attack and elemental cyclone, and then finish them off with a fairly tough combat phase. Sure, Black Guard don't get that test 4+, but you get them for 40 points less, while being twice as deadly and twice as fast thanks to their ability to charge and run with the Sorceress.
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26 minutes ago, Frowny said:
Chaff Infantry
Note that here, I included the unit size buffs and the 'near leader' buffs, since these are likely always in play.
Standard in the range of chaff. Here, I included the unit size buffs already since as chaff, they will likely already be getting them. Note that this actually makes them poor carriers of buffs, since most of them are already hitting on 2's just with the unit size buffs and the very easy-to-trigger proximity to hero buffs.
Longbeards stand out as especially poor damage output, but as you will see later, they are among the sturdiest to to rend - attacks per point, and the grumbling has other uses for buffing other units. I think for pure defensive roles their sturdiness and grumbling make them superior to several of these options for other reasons.
All units here seem to have some roles. Bleakswords and dreadspears can be eaten by sorceresses, although darkshards are likely more useful there.
Interesting to see that halberds are pretty solid if you want melee guard
Heavy Infantry
Note that buffers for everything cost points, which I did not include. In a lot of situations it may be better to just buy more models. Standout-buffers are the Rune lord for +1 attack, which pays for itself if he can use it even on only 20 models.
Of the killy infantry, Hammerers stand out as being the killiest. They are the only heavy damage infantry that can get the 3rd attack. I didn't include them with full buffs since they are so far ahead of the other options that it makes the colors not as helpful. I think they were ~1.3, twice as killy per point as evocators.
Executioners are worse than both greatswords and hammerers, since their attack sequence stops with the mortal wound.
Greatswords are the best without buffs, but carry buffs poorly since they already hit on 2's.
Wildwood rangers are amazing vs monsters and should be used as such. They are below average against infantry and much more fragile than other options due to their price and 5+ save.
Pheonix guard are solidly in line with other options. Their strength is in their defensive stats, though, so they are slightly behind here.
Ironbreakers are interesting. Of these options, they are the 2nd sturdiest, losing out only to Pheonix Guard. And with their 3rd attack they carry buffs quite well, but start off only about as killy as chaff. A middle-road infantry. Time will tell if that is valuable but may lose out to more dedicated hammers and anvils.
So Black Guard are pretty decent already, and are on the higher end of the spectrum when given that +1 to wound, but loose out when up against Greatswords and Hammerers. Not too shabby.
One thing that helps set them apart from those two is that they have a 2" range, as well as how easy it is to get that +1 to hit. Not to mention that they can get into position faster thanks to the Sorceress' CA that lets them run and charge.
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34 minutes ago, spenson said:
My issue with the Darkshards is that they don't compare very favorably against the shadow warriors. The darkshards are 2 shots 3+/4+/- while the shadow warriors can easily be 1 shot 2+/3+/-1. The darkshards may deal a tiny bit more damage and are slightly cheaper but they can't deapstrike. As you said, the darkshards will require the sorceress CA if you have the first turn and want to shoot.
I would call Darkshards superior in actual line combat; that comes from their mobility being available when ever you have a CP to spend, versus one turn of deep striking. That means that if a situation gets a little dicey, or you need to do a big aggressive power play with them, you've got options. Once a Shadow Warrior drops, they are pretty much hugging cover 24/7 while being stuck at 6" move. That Deepstrike can be super awesome, and really help board control, but in terms of actual mobility after the deepstrike, they sorely lack. And if I want to do some first turn pressure, I think that the Soulscream bridge via Sorceress can be quite effective due to its extended range.
Secondly, as for damage, one thing to remember is just how much stuff we have to buff with. With the right combination, like having a Hurricanum nearby and casting the Hallow Heart +1 to wound spell, you can get the same hit values with an extra attack instead of rend.
I think competition wise, only Irondrakes and Sisters of the Watch can really compete with Darkshards; Irondrakes have a pretty good gun, the torpedo and similiar number of shots, while Sisters of the Watch can put out a decent number of MW.
My problem with Shadow Warriors is that while they make awesome objective holders/stealers, their innate squishyness and weak CC power kinda makes their deepstrike hard to use. Plus, Darkshards are murder bait for Sorceress, so 10 points a turn for +2 to cast is pretty great.
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1 hour ago, Nasnad said:
What do you all think of black guards, and dreadspears/bleakswords/darkshards? .. Also how are dark riders vs pistolers and outriders?
They're intresting, and while not super impressive at first, they can do some good stuff. Black Guard are probably the most killiest of the 4 Elite Swordsmen, beating out Great Swords due to their 2" range. They may not have the crazy survivability of Phoenix Guard, they
Executioners are just kinda rubbish now, since they lost half their MW output, leaving them as weaker Greatblades. They are just flat out bad.
Dreadspears and swords aren't terrible, they have a bit more offense and defense when unbuffed then their Freeguild Guard counter parts, but lack the killing power that they can get from Freeguild General, Size bonuses and Halberds. Dreads won't be beating them in combat, but that 4+ save and extra 1"
Bleakshards are fantastic in my opinion; they are one of the few archer units to have a base 2, and a decent stat of +4(+3 if at 10+)/4+ which can be buffed up via spells and abilities. That means you can actually move and reposition them, instead of leaving them as a static firing position. When combined with the Sorceress' CA that lets them run, they can actually cover a lot of distance and lay down a lot of fire power.
Dark Riders are a bit tougher, with a 4+ save vs the pistoliers. While Pistoliers are better for running down dying units and finishing off, while the Outsiders are better for picking off some wounds here and there. Dark Riders are better at melee on the charge, and are a bit faster. They can sorta act like a poor man's Eel, since they do get 2 damage on the charge, as well 15 rather crummy shots.
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Lets put it this way; I honestly only found Slaanesh and Skaven to be on the far end of whats strong, and thats mostly due to Slaaneshes summoning and Skaven having the best of both worlds of battleshock resistant hordes and powerful ranged options. Once Slaanesh gets a double look at its summoning process, and Skaven gets some price increases, I think we'll be in a decent level of balance.
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13 hours ago, JackStreicher said:
That‘s still no valid argument as to WHY GW adds such a rule that robs the fun of 3 factions? (Nurgle Demons, Nurgle mortale, Nighthaunt)
@umpac that is nonsense, this is also no counter unit but a COUNTER FACTION that No-brainer massacres entire factions. It‘s hilarious how you are even trying to defend the biggest design fault in AoS 2.0 apart from the always strikes first shenanigans.
“very healthy“: I want to play Nighthaunt, oops, I am dead. Same goes for Nurgle. - VERY healthy indeed.
this is my last word on this since power-Fan arguments are beginning to rise in defense of GW, as usual.
If you play Nighthaunt for Ethereal and the 6++, you are ignoring 80% of the entire army.
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As a lover of all things that over the top evil, but still technically on the side of good, I have my eyes on the dark elves. And for the most part, I am very pleased with both of the previews shown so far. It seems like GW has made quite the attempt to appease older fans by providing a fluffy and mechanically coherent book. This doesn't excuse their lack of communications, but they are showing a commitment to whats left of the ranges. I would also like to see more warscroll updates, but thats just me. I also feel reluctant to do any more AoS purchases for my LoN, since I feel as if they too are due for a squatting.
However, enough doom and gloom, I want to see what new toys CoS has to play with! I really want to see Darkling Covens get a bit of attention; I think it would be awesome to have a deadly core of executioners guided by a Sorceress, while protected on the flanks by units of Freeguild, while Cannons and Gyrobombers pummel screens into oblivion.
Anvilgrad looks neat, but depends heavily on the artifacts/ca and Tempest eyes seems like a dream for most dwarf players, especially with the fabled rumor that they will be getting a second wound.
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11 hours ago, AthlorianStoners said:
This is honestly getting crazy, people need to calm down with this. The books will be here in a few weeks. I get it’s frustrating when you want something, but it’s really not that bad. You’ve waited years for this book, surely a few more weeks isn’t going to kill anyone.
No, but it certainly killed more than a few armies, RIP High Elves
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Honestly, it's somewhat weird that he can be taken in any order army as an ally. Why not just make him only GA: Order in the first place?
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Those do not look like 25mm's, but I could be wrong.
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20 hours ago, Dead Scribe said:
Most people I talk with feel battleshock should be eliminated entirely because its a negative play experience when your models run away, and there are just so many ways to ignore it anyway that its kind of useless.
23 hours ago, zilberfrid said:Deletion due to battleshock simply feels awful. Now a unit running off and needing a hero to chase after them sounds a lot better.
The list I build is largely immune to battleshock, because the mechanic as ruled in AoS is awful.
So does loosing any unit in combat in the first place; thats just part of the game. What feels worse is having half the rules in your book, and an entire allegiance dedicated to that mechanic. I wouldn't be opposed to a rework of morale, but when quite a few abilities for factions are based around that mechanic, it would becomes even worse feeling when almost every army you encounter just shrugs them off.
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18 hours ago, Landohammer said:
Good summary!
If I had to find one thing to complain about in our book, its that Winterleaf is just so good that it tends to overshadow the others in competitive play.
For example, Dreadwood is meant to buff Spites specifically, but winterleaf spites outperform dreadwood spites while also buffing every other unit in the book. Winterleaf also has the best glade item.
It kinda makes you wonder if Winterleaf exploding 6s were perhaps originally intended to be for Dryads only? All of the other primary glades specifically favor certain units. IE
Gnarlroot - Wizards
Dreadwood- Spites
Harvestboon - Durthu
Oakenbrow - Treelords
Yet winterleaf buffs everyone? Doesn't seem right.
Well, Harvestboon is pretty decent all around, in my opinion. It's command ability is the most applicable to all units, and it's bonus is nice to have on units like Dryads or Tree Revenants. I'd say there really isn't a unit besides maybe Kurnoths that don't benefit from it.
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On 6/17/2019 at 2:45 PM, SleeperAgent said:
Nighthaunt getting punished for Legions using Grimghasts is gonna sour a lot of people who bought into NH. I know it did for me.
I think you mean that its gonna sour people who bought 90 Grimghasts.
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AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion
in Death
Posted
Its a bit wonky, but I would honestly say that with what you've got, your better off running them in Nighthaunt. Using a lot of minimum sized units of Spirit Hosts and the new Hexwraith battalion, you can have Lady Olynder as your general, and make her a good beat stick AND MW dumper. Using your Grimghasts as a sort of horde mulcher with the Knight and Guardian of Souls would be pretty good as well.