Burning chariots as core? Overseers Fatetwisters list added

[backslide]

anyone actually done it? contemplating a fatetwisters overseers as my basic list, 4 flamering chariots, as core, and a decent sized summoning pool

 

so burn, and magic the bad guys, then summon bloodletters to crush them, with a few fate dice in hand summoning could be very very evil 

[Nico]

I've looked at it repeatedly and bought 6 kits, but it just doesn't fly. They and the Herald on Chariot are probably 15% overcosted in a Battletome where there are few bargains. The minimum sizes of the Battalions are horrible at 2,000 points. You can try 6 Exalted Flamers (the list I built for The Exalted Conflagration); and then take Pinks or other Battleline. Skyfires are so much better in every respect however.

Taking a 7 wound 5+ save General who cannot hide anywhere to SCGT (for example) is also suicidal. The general's role is very important for Battleplans and Agendas.

[Ugly Green Trog]

I'm doing at the moment with my Slow Grow army built off the Start Collecting box, I agree with Nico. Both the chariots are too expensive and easily focussed down. I like the models but I can't see myself building the chariot as my general for long.

[backslide]

basic list is this:

 

Lord Of Change (300)

Herald Of Tzeentch On Burning Chariot (200) - General - Staff of Change

The Blue Scribes (120)

Herald Of Tzeentch (120) - Staff of Change

Battleline

1 x Burning Chariots Of Tzeentch (160)

1 x Burning Chariots Of Tzeentch (160)

1 x Burning Chariots Of Tzeentch (160)

1 x Burning Chariots Of Tzeentch (160)

1 x Burning Chariots Of Tzeentch (160)

Battalions Overseer's Fate-twisters (80) 

Total: 1620/2000

 

The heralds spell is so much better than the one on the disk other wise I would be entirely flying circus,

 

a decent sized summoning pool, summoning with fate dice is a totally different prospect... with a 6, 5 and a 4 20 bloodletters charge something turn 1, a khorne daemon prince summoned would give them reroll ones and be pretty killy too, even an arcane transformation on his sword and he has 5A 2+ 3+ doing D3  

[Tokyo Nift]

You can't use destiny dice to charge the Bloodletters, Destiny Dice are only usable on units with the Tzeentch keyword. I found this out the hard way ?

[backslide]

15 hours ago, Tokyo Nift said:

You can't use destiny dice to charge the Bloodletters, Destiny Dice are only usable on units with the Tzeentch keyword. I found this out the hard way ?

opps, not a difficult one to miss but so noted for future reference

 

cause i used that tonight with a change host that will learn me

[blueguy203]

I am in the process of building a list that would feature this warband. Here is my version, comments and critiques are always welcomed.

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300)
- General
- Trait: Magical Supremacy - Tzeentch Daemon Hero
- Artefact: Wellspring of Arcane Might
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Herald Of Tzeentch (120)
- Staff of Change
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Herald Of Tzeentch On Disc (120)
- Staff of Change
- Lore of Change: Arcane Transformation
Herald Of Tzeentch On Disc (120)
- Staff of Change
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Gaunt Summoner (100)
- Artefact: Wellspring of Arcane Might
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future

Battleline
20 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (280)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch

Units
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (120)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (120)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (120)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (120)

Battalions
Overseer's Fate-twisters (80)

Total: 2000/2000


Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

[Nico]

What concerns me is how unbelievably squishy the army is. You don't even have any ability to Split with that list. Gunlines that take turn one can have a field day.

[blueguy203]

16 minutes ago, Nico said:

What concerns me is how unbelievably squishy the army is. You don't even have any ability to Split with that list. Gunlines that take turn one can have a field day.

Nico, I hear what you are saying however, i have not really run into any serious gunlines other than  sylvaneth. What kind of Gun line army lists are you referring too?

[Nico]

The one that 90% of DoT players will be using: 9, 18 or 27 Skyfires:

Also Stormcast.

[Tokyo Nift]

@Nico Offtopic kinda, but why dyu think the Changeling is such a prevalent unit? I like him and have used him to good effect in my lists, but I've always wondered what exactly it is about him that's worth 140 points. Dyu have an analysis?

[backslide]

19 hours ago, blueguy203 said:

I am in the process of building a list that would feature this warband. Here is my version, comments and critiques are always welcomed.

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300)
- General
- Trait: Magical Supremacy - Tzeentch Daemon Hero
- Artefact: Wellspring of Arcane Might
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Herald Of Tzeentch (120)
- Staff of Change
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Herald Of Tzeentch On Disc (120)
- Staff of Change
- Lore of Change: Arcane Transformation
Herald Of Tzeentch On Disc (120)
- Staff of Change
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Gaunt Summoner (100)
- Artefact: Wellspring of Arcane Might
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future

Battleline
20 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (280)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch

Units
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (120)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (120)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (120)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (120)

Battalions
Overseer's Fate-twisters (80)

Total: 2000/2000

 

 

certainly different to how I would do it, I'm always concerned with my number of deployments, exalteds are good but I love that chariots for so little more points 

[Tokyo Nift]

Something noone has mentioned yet is that as far as the Azyr app is concerned - and thus possibly RAI - you cannot take Chariots as Battleline in a Tzeentch army. You can only take them if your allegiance is Daemons of Tzeentch, which is a separate allegiance in the app.

Galrauch, for example, is takeable by Daemons of Tzeentch but not by Tzeentch. I have no idea if this is intended or not, but might be worth considering.

[Nico]

It may take them a long time to get all of the extremely fiddly allegiance rules fixed in the Azyr App. It might almost be better if it didn't tell you whether the army was "legal" - so at least the false positives would be avoided.

[Nico]

Quote

@Nico Offtopic kinda, but why dyu think the Changeling is such a prevalent unit? I like him and have used him to good effect in my lists, but I've always wondered what exactly it is about him that's worth 140 points. Dyu have an analysis?

Let's start with the fact that the Chaos Sorceror Lord is also (overcosted) at 140 points.

The Changeling brings an awful lot of tools to the box and has different roles for different enemy armies.

• Slowing down Deathstars and Stonelords - pretty obvious, but massive. Note that this happens in the enemy hero phase, you don't have to pick in your hero phase, so it works even if the enemy take turn one.
• Unbinding turn one. While rarely worthwhile, he's a hard counter to any Sayl list that's trying to lob something at you or any other pivotal spell in the enemy army, which could even be Mystic Shield on a key target (you may need to use Destiny Dice to ensure the unbind). This will likely ensure the imminent death of the Changeling
• Acting as the target for the first swap in the Changehost. This makes him an autoinclude in any Changehost based army. Bascially, you swap the Changeling for another Wizard in your deployment zone turn one, then that Wizard casts some nasty spells at point blank range, then you swap the other Wizard for a different Wizard or Combat/Pew Pew unit as the second (and different) pair of units.
• Assassin with the Trickster's staff. He can grab a super weapon and smack down the bearer with it - Archaon, Alarielle, Durthu etc. (and he doesn't fluff his hit and wound rolls if you spank Destiny Dice either).
• Casting a key enemy spell.
• Hopping on a Balewind in your Deployment Zone and firing off any of your spells (e.g. Gateway) with double range in turn one. 
• You can also use the Balewind to shove enemy models away from an objective - until he gets sniped.  

I'm sure we're only scratching the surface of what this epic dude can do.

[backslide]

Very little shooting around except for fyreslayers and dwalfs ironically

 

Given its one drop very very seldom I'll move second unless I want too

 

I used a change host last night that an eye opener

 

Changeling is in the to do list 

[Nico]

Quote

Something noone has mentioned yet is that as far as the Azyr app is concerned - and thus possibly RAI - you cannot take Chariots as Battleline in a Tzeentch army. You can only take them if your allegiance is Daemons of Tzeentch, which is a separate allegiance in the app.

You're right (more or less). They are even worse than I thought originally! "Tzeentch Daemon" allegiance plus the general requirement (in the back of the DoT book). So you could only take the GS and the Shaman from the Arcanite world (as they are Tzeentch Daemons). Truly, truly awful at the 2,000 point level.

[Brimstone]

On 04/04/2017 at 0:45 PM, Nico said:

Changeling

• Hopping on a Balewind in your Deployment Zone and firing off any of your spells (e.g. Gateway) with double range in turn one. 

That sounds like a great idea, I'm assuming the example was The Lord of Change Infernal Gateway? 

Would you base the roll needed on the number of wounds suffered on the Changeling?

If the Changeling charges Skarbrand and uses the Formless Horror ability to make his attacks. The Changeling chooses Skarbrands Carnage to attack with and selects a Destiny Dice to make the 4+ To Hit roll. The next roll wound be the To Wound roll which is based on the Damage Table. Can The Changeling use another Destiny Dice to pass that roll and deal 8 wounds?

[Tokyo Nift]

10 minutes ago, Brimstone said:

That sounds like a great idea, I'm assuming the example was The Lord of Change Infernal Gateway? 

Would you base the roll needed on the number of wounds suffered on the Changeling?

If the Changeling charges Skarbrand and uses the Formless Horror ability to make his attacks. The Changeling chooses Skarbrands Carnage to attack with and selects a Destiny Dice to make the 4+ To Hit roll. The next roll wound be the To Wound roll which is based on the Damage Table. Can The Changeling use another Destiny Dice to pass that roll and deal 8 wounds?

No, you can only use destiny dice to pass specific rolls, and you can use it for wound rolls but not for the total carnage roll.

Another question is does the Changeling even get total carnage? And just more generally, if the Changeling fought Archaon, could he use destiny dice to rouse the demon in the Slayer of Kings and instantly remove Archaon?

[Nico]

Quote

Another question is does the Changeling even get total carnage? And just more generally, if the Changeling fought Archaon, could he use destiny dice to rouse the demon in the Slayer of Kings and instantly remove Archaon?

Rule of cool says "Yes". It's not clear and would be FAQ'ed. Logically the attributes of the weapon would be gained by the Changeling, but the rule doesn't specify this. The same would apply to Starsoul Maces.

Conversely, you wouldn't pick up the Battlebrew Buff from a Stonelord when The Changeling smacks it with its horns as that's a property of the target unit and not an aspect of the weapon.

Destiny Dice wouldn't be usable on custom rolls for special rules. One borderline (and not terribly important) case might be the Curseling's Glean Magic spell, which requires you to roll two dice to equal or beat the casting value of the spell before nabbing it - literally that's not a "casting roll", but purposively, perhaps it is. 

[Nico]

Quote

Would you base the roll needed on the number of wounds suffered on the Changeling?

Yes. For example, the Blue Scribes might learn the spell and the LoC might then die. The Blue Scribes would still know the spell and would use its own wounds taken to determine the strength of Gateway.