Increasing Warrior Brotherhood cheese

[Requizen]

Tell me if I'm interpreting this wrong, because it's pretty brutal if not.

We all know how to combo the Knight-Azyros and the Warrior Brotherhood. However, according to the FAQ: " ‘Set-up’ is typically when a unit is placed on the table during deployment, but can also refer to a unit being deployed in a location other than on the battlefield, or being put into play once the game has started (a unit using the Stormcast Eternal Warrior Chamber’s Lightning Strike [...] for example). Models can set up within 3" of the enemy, even if they are set up in the movement phase, unless noted otherwise in the rules for the ability that allows them to be set up once the battle is under way."

So according to this, bringing down a unit (of, say, Retributors) with the Azyros, you can place them immediately in base contact with an enemy if you have enough to daisy chain them? Thus preventing things like Fanatics blocking the charge?

I feel like this is just mean, but it seems to be the rules, no?

[Nico]

Yes - this is exactly right -  set up adjacent.

There's some residual doubt over the meaning of wording like "This is its move for the movement phase." Warrior Brotherhood and equivalent wording for the Hammerstrike Force.

Some take the view that this means that this rule is both a set up rule and a move. I don't think anyone thinks that it is just a move.

3" rule on a totem?

Partly this is because the 3" rule has been put up on a totem (maybe because we all have the Combat Gauges). The Clan Skryre battalion blew this out of the water, since it expressly indicated that the filth can be set up adjacent to the enemy models if you really want to (and take D6 mortal wounds for the privilege).

Can a rule be both a set up and a move?

In my view being both a set up and a move leads to a paradox as the rule is then within both of the FAQ answers on page 2 of the FAQ (the one you cite and the one in the opposite column about the Movement Phase). Does it trigger a Gryph Hound or not - set up says "yes", move says "no". The FAQ answers paint a bright line between set up rules and move rules, which strongly suggests to me that a given rule cannot be both. They really go to town on this and even give specific examples such as the Warrior Brotherhood.

However, the Clan Skryre/FAQ answer principle applies to all of the other set up rules which don't have an express (more than 3/6/9 inches away from the enemy wording in their rules - 3 is Vexillor, 6 is Tomb Scorpion from memory, 9 is the default for all the summoning spells).

 

Purposive interpretation

The unfortunate wording in question ("This is its move for the movement phase.") probably means (interpreted purposively as GW have indicated that they do in the AoS context) merely that the unit cannot move in the movement phase - it can only shoot and charge. The "is its move" means "counts as its move" (wording that appears on other scrolls) - i.e. expends its normal ability that it would otherwise have to do a move in that movement phase.

 

The Azyros Rule

If you look at the Azyros rule in isolation, then it's even more clear cut (because it doesn't have the reference to movement at all).

 

What the GW community website said on the matter

Furthermore the GW Community Website described the Warrior Brotherhood as follows:

Quote

Ben’s army comprises a single Warscroll Battalion – the ‘Warrior Brotherhood’. What’s great about this particular battalion is that it allows every unit to deploy using Lightening Strikes. This means you don’t need to set them up on the board and can instead deploy your army within 3″ of the enemy (it’s normally further away than this, but clever placement of the two Knight-Azyros models reduce this)! 

Emphasis added.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/11/29/top-5-lists-from-blood-glory/

This should be conclusive pending another FAQ answer on the point.

I don't know whether Ben Johnson actually played it adjacent or not - as discussed, it rarely matters a huge amount for the Warrior Brotherhood, except vs Fanatics. It's more important for other set up rules.

Clearer wording

The clearer wording is that on the (new) Bloodletter scroll for example "the unit cannot move in the following movement phase" (of course this is accompanied by the 9 inch distance rule). This achieves the same end, but doesn't lead to confusion over whether the set up is also a move or not.

A similar issue arises on the Navigate Realmroots rule (which is plainly a set up rule), where this depends on the meaning of "instead of moving" and whether the Navigate Realmroots rule adds a third option to what a unit can do if it's within 3 inches of an enemy unit. This then determines whether Navigate Realmroots is a retreat or not (it's a set up, hence it cannot be a move, hence it cannot be a retreat; and it's adding a new option to the unit beyond the ones available in the 4 pages of the rules - this is what special rules on Warscrolls do).

Sam the Slayer and balance

Sam the Slayer, the People's Champion etc. smashed people up with the Warrior Brotherhood partially by deploying the models adjacent to the enemy units - it is helpful. It's rarely a decisive factor for this Battalion (the main strength of which judging from his interview etc. is the flexibility of when you drop the units, cf. Skyborne Slayers). 

If you want to change this for balance reasons (completely see the possible merits of this), then I would suggest adjusting the cost of the Warrior Brotherhood, rather than over complicating the fundamental rules of the game - a clear distinction between moves and set ups makes things a lot simpler. 

From a gaming perspective, knowing how set up rules like this work is really important for newer players. You don't want to be caught out when you would have been fine had you deployed slightly differently. If you face an army you've never seen before, the set up, teleport etc.. rules are probably the first thing to check.

It's also worth noting that Fanatics are hands down the best unit for their cost in Destruction and a strong contender for the best unit in the game for their cost. Not least because they synergise so well with other non-Moonclan factions.