Skarbrand.

[Arkiham]

For skarbrands ability "total carnage "

If a target is hit by it the target suffers 8 wounds, no saves can be taken.

If this is used against a target who suffers half damage from attacks, does this still deal 8 wounds? As the writing is quite specific. "Target loses 8 wounds "

Or does it deal 4.

[Nico]

Let's see if they respond.

[BaldoBeardo]

Standard combat sequence;

Attacking Unit rolls to hit, rolls to wound.

Defending unit rolls standard saves.

Damage from unsaved attacks added to damage pool.

Defending player applies damage from damage pool to a model.

Model removed. Repeat for any remaining damage pool.

Some units have abilities that convert hits of 6 into MW, some units re-roll saves, etc. - but most importantly none of these change the standard sequence. Although some may skip steps, the sequence is still there.

Skarbrand's ability *changes* the sequence because you jump straight from rolling hits to applying damage to a specific model before you finish the hit-wound-save-pool-inflict cycle of combat for all his attacks. They occur out of sequence, therefore it is not necessarily wise to assume that abilities that come into play based on that standard sequence apply.

To put another way, if the Stonehorn's ability is triggered by Skarbrand's total carnage rule (I.e. treating it as a damage 8 attack) then the Stonehorn's ability is absolutely no defence against damage 1 attacks because you're creating the precedent that individual attacks are discrete to each other which is *not* covered in the rules.

We're used to rolling buckets of dice to speed things up, but that doesn't necessarily reflect the underlying mechanics.

It's entirely possible the FAQ will clarify that RAW is not RAI here, but reading the rules and Skarbrand's abilities as a technical document that's what happens.

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[BaldoBeardo]

There are also plenty of units with abilities that can avoid damage at the point it is inflicted/suffered - plaguebearers, Phoenix Guard - these are *not* saves. Saves are taken prior to damage allocation. These are described as - at best - 'additional rolls'. They may thematically be considered saves, but they aren't save rolls in the context of the rules.

Yet Skarbrand's ability states they are slain outright as they have less than 8 wounds. Which means that the wounds aren't being applied in a standard sense.

So if those abilities are ignored, then by extension units with more than 8 wounds and a similar rule (GUO) likely also do not get them.

Not aware of any other rules similar to Skarbrand's, so it's a poor control group for comparison.

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[Nico]

Let's put this one to bed:

Quote

Rune Eriksen If target model halves any wounds, then four is dealt.

 

Like · Reply · Yesterday at 15:52

 

Warhammer Age of Sigmar We'd play it this way too.^

 

Like · Reply · 21 mins

He's still incredibly powerful with 2 Bloodsecrators giving him 3 Carnage attacks and +1 to hit from the Command Trait.

[Arkiham]

According to the Facebook page it is indeed only 4 wounds. 

So it's their terrible wording which needs altering.

[Arkiham]

23 minutes ago, Nico said:

Let's put this one to bed:

He's still incredibly powerful with 2 Bloodsecrators giving him 3 Carnage attacks and +1 to hit from the Command Trait.

Hush! Don't tell everyone my super secret plans. 

 

How does it affect this model then ? Dead or nearly dead.

[Nico]

Nearly dead.

[BaldoBeardo]

...and it'll still kill a Stonehorn with 8 wounds left outright.

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[Arkiham]

Doesn't feel right but sure ok.

 

The rule writer should do a better job next time.

[Arkiham]

52 minutes ago, BaldoBeardo said:

...and it'll still kill a Stonehorn with 8 wounds left outright.

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Apparently not.

Only deals 4 wounds as of the stonehorns ability.

 

It's so poorly written it's a joke, if it does 8 damage an the model only has 8 wounds, of course its dead you just killed it! Don't say you automatically kill it in the rules when infact a large amount of the time you don't. 

[BaldoBeardo]

Apparently not.

Only deals 4 wounds as of the stonehorns ability.

 

It's so poorly written it's a joke, if it does 8 damage an the model only has 8 wounds, of course its dead you just killed it! Don't say you automatically kill it in the rules when infact a large amount of the time you don't. [emoji35][emoji35][emoji35]

Eeeeexactly.