Snakeb1te
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Posts posted by Snakeb1te
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2 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:
It‘s not. That line makes sure you have at least one hero so you can‘t spam 8 Chaos spawns for the battallion
What he means is - why can't they just word it something like "requires 7 mortal Slaves to Darkness units, at least one of which must be a hero".
I suppose it doesn't match the format.
Anyway @Nasnad, have yourself a Plaguetouched if you can.
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1 minute ago, Gistradagis said:
If that's for the Nurgle battalion, then it's not enough. It's a hero + 7 units, meaning 8 in total with the Mark, I believe?
Well a hero is fulfilling the requirement of being a unit and a hero isn't it? Perhaps the more experience folk in this thread can confirm.
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- Karkadrak
- Sorceror
- Lord
- x15 Warriors
- x5 Knights
- x5 Knights
- Warshrine
Boom. Heroes count as units.
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Glad you liked the feedback. Go for the batallion
I'm not sure how to better spend those 100 or 200 points than a batallion which provides a command point to a starved army, and with a nice MW bounce back ability to a block of tanky warriors and knights.
Otherwise you could consider a squad of marauders, and start the game with an extra CP.
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59 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:
2 units of 10 warriors is... kinda rough. I'd almost recommend running them as 5 and 15, so that at least one of these blocks can be more durable, and the other functions as a screening unit, or to leave behind on some objective.
Just a few thoughts - I don't play much but I spend way too much time reading and over-analysing, and I've read this thread in its entirety.
- Traits - Bolstered by hate add two wounds to your sorcerer, eternal vendetta (reroll wounds) for Chaos Lord, and Master of Deception (-1 to hit in melee) for Karkadrak.
- Unless you're deadset on the Fomoroid, keep in mind it isn't worth 100 points as it is. It costs as much as a hero, but is lacklustre in melee, will probably only deal 2 damage per ranged turn, and whilst having 10 wounds, is only 5+, so anything with rend will decimate it in short order anyway. Its ability to damage units near terrain isn't meaningful either. At 80 points it could be worth a punt but not at 100. A Sphiranx would be better for those points.
- Option A - split the knights, join your warrior squads into one (to make it x20). That way you have a tanky anvil to drop buffs onto. Plus it is a little trickier to have all x10 knights having space to attack at the same time, whilst still keeping in range of the various buffs. As much as it'd be cool to buff the ****** out of a unit of x10 knights and have them go to town, I'd say it is better to split them up and bulk up your chaos warriors, who will then have many more turns of rerolling saves. You'll then be able to retreat out of combat with one unit of knights, whilst charging in with the other.
- Option B - split one squad of warriors, making one squad x15. That way you get a bit better of an anvil, whilst still having a backup squad for something. Not sure what a x5 of warriors will achieve on its own as they do very poor damage, but the idea is that you're taking option B if you really want to have a meaty lance charge with x10 knights.
- Why is the Warshrine Undivided? Read the ability carefully. The upgraded buff provided by the Warshrine does not depend on the mark it has, but the mark the receiving unit is. Therefore, make the thing Nurgle marked, in as it'll get a -1 to hit from shooting when near a hero, and in case it needs to buff itself, +1 to save. A mostly inconsequential change but still better than what you've picked currently.
- You have a massive choice for artifacts, I've heard the -3 rend on the Karkadrak is great - hard to argue unless you're against Nighthaunt.
- Remember that you'll be looking to summon in 3 units during this battle. You'll need to find a way to spare command points for that. Marauders or Marauder Horsemen seem like the best choice, but summon whatever you can, as long as you remember to get the models for this.
Consider also one last thing. If you drop the Formoroid, split the knights, and have only one unit of x15 warriors, you'll have 300 points spare with 7 units. That means you can take the Plaguetouched Nurgle battalion. That means an extra command point and artifact, and turns your army into a one-drop, giving you a big advantage in picking the conditions of the first two turns. Obviously you'd have to mark all of your units as Nurgle though (losing out on the Khorne buff).
Battalions aren't usually worth it at lower point levels, but because you can summon units in through Ravagers, I think it is worth the trade.
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Well and the new Rock throwing guy as well as a hero or two.
You're barking up the wrong tree looking for shooting units in Slaves to Darkness. If you give them the Tzeentch keyword you could build a list with some units from the new Disciples of Tzeentch book which is more on the shooting side of things.
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41 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:
For you, the great blades are useless? We can run them with a mix of weapons, so the shields serve the saving, and the greatblades serve the damaging?
With rerolling 1s for instance, they have the same output as hand weapons I believe. The MW5+ save is so much more valuable than even a little more damage that the greatblades provide.
The only argument for a loadout that isn't sword and board, is for double handed weapons at units of 15+ (rerolling hit rolls and rerolling saves without needing buffs), and halberds, for the truly massive brick of warriors in narrow spaces.
Unfortunately, I think greatblades are pointless without any way to make them +1 to hit.
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Ah ok - everything but the hair.
What do you guys spray them? I tried Corax white in my last batch, but I'm thinking of trying out Chaos Black to produce easier shadows in the recesses, as well as not needing to paint the black boots or try too hard at patching up all the white seeping through.
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Modelling question - I'm assembling two squads of Witch Aelves and two squads of Sisters of Slaughter.
So far I've only glued the bodies to the base. What would be your suggestions in terms of painting order?
Spraying, gluing, painting whatever. I made the mistake of gluing them all together and painting them that way last time... bit of a mistake.
Should I keep everything separate and glue it on at the end?
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50 minutes ago, Graywater said:
I like the medusa, though the tradeoff of the second caster versus expanding those other units is a tough one and probably going to be up to some playtesting by you to see which way you personally prefer. I will say that I dont think morathi needs the balewind. She doesnt have range issues and she's already a tank capable of getting -2 to hit and a 3+ without doing anything you wouldn't typically do anyways (extra -1 from look out sir, and cauldron +1 to save). Some people play for her to stay small as long as possible. It's totally a match by match basis and something that comes with practice, but in an army with only 2 offensive threats, she's going to need to turn to her big form at some point. Learning when to do that is a skill into itself because a lot of the time you'll want to take advantage of the extra spells and bonus to range and cast in her small form. And to bring it back to the balewind, once she turns big, you have nobody that can utilize it. Geminids are scary because they go out into the midfield to effect your opponents army, but that's exactly where you are going to, and so it is easy to have those used against you. You dont want to get hit by either effect of those things. Getting something that can be worked around would be my suggestion. I like the prismatic palisade or soulsnare shackles a lot for messing with the movement of my opponent.
Have you looked into the harpy units? They arent a bad include if you drop the medusa and only buff one squad to full size. They (heartrenders in particular) are great for coming onto the board in later turns to snag objectives. Even just the threat of them doing that will force your opponent to try to accommodate for them.
If the slaughter queen is your general, like is the case with your list, you want her. The command ability is going to be huge in getting extra output from the few high offensive output units you have. Also it let's you get around some activation shenanigans that go off in the combat phase, but dont come into effect if you fight in the hero phase. And the 30 points from her isnt getting you much.
Yes, the cauldron gets her own buff. Units are always in range of themselves.
I agree that that the medusa v max size conundrum is going to be down to personal preference - I suppose the former will be better for my wallet given I do not yet own the additional box of medusa and w.aelves.
I feel like Morathi transformed is ok, but I was under the impression she's more of a monster tarpit rather than actually putting out much damage. Chances are I'll want an excuse to use the big model if just for the fact I painted it!
I have avoided Khinerai for an admittedly petty reason, in that the models are beautiful but the rules for them mean they're incredibly frail and easy to kill, which is something that bothers me considering they look like elite troops. I am aware of their incredible utility (I use Chaos furies in my Slaves army) and I love hit n run units usually, but I tend to prefer tough elite units (melusai with all the buffs), or hordes that are either glass cannons or tarpits. Let's just say I'm voluntarily hurting myself for irrational reasons!
I forgot about look out sir, indeed that does make Morathi quite a bit more resilient than I thought. Plus with the cute melee profile it could be fun to have her follow a squad into the fray.
Yeah I assumed the slaughter queen would be the no brainer pick. It's a little frustrating that she has to be the general to do it, as this affects the viability of another list I was interested in (Temple Nest).
The advice about the geminids is a good shout - I just feel like they're an auto include because of the far range they have, and can be hitting backline shooting units like Kurnoth Hunters and Vanguard-Raptors. I considered both Palisade and the Shackles too, but I feel like both of those could end up hurting my own units too. In any case, with all your advice I'll be sure to playtest these.
Thanks again for your thorough replies - it is people like you that make me enthusiastic to visit this board.
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10 hours ago, Graywater said:
Depending on where you are located will determine what is the norm regarding realm rules. Every 2 day event I've been to in the last year have used realm spells and all but 1 had predetermined realmscape features. So it is normal for me. I play in the Northeast US for reference. With that said, I agree morathi likes having the important mind razor spell. I like doubling up on it with the medusa though, because it opens up options in case one dies/is out of range/is casting realm spells. And morathis bonus to cast goes away once she turns, which she will do fairly early with your list only having 2 other threats (the snakes, and the witches to a lesser extent).
Your description of the tankiness you can get with the snakes by the cauldron is exactly why you want that defensive buff from the blessing of khaine prayer. It let's you ignore so much damage, and is more valuable than 6s to hit causing an extra hit. Numbers wise, it's getting an extra 33% value in damage ignored, versus the extra 16% offensive output. And having your models survive will lead to more damage in the long run over a small increase in damage for a turn, especially in an army where we get offensively stronger as the game goes on. This is why I personally value it most of all out of our prayers and want it on our hardest to kill unit.
I have three follow up questions for you as you seem to have the math figured out
- Well I wanted to use the Medusa on the Balewind, but is she really worth 180 points? Removing her along with the Balewind would mean I can bump to max size the Witch Aelves and the Blood Sisters, which still leaves me with 80 points - Geminids then? Or still the Balewind for Morathi?
With a Balewind we could get Morathi to a 2+ save (Cauldron and Balewind), with a -1 to hit from her beauty, and never have spell range issues (you mentioned having a backup caster is handy, but with such high defense, and double range to cast & 6" Morathi is able to hit anywhere and the Medusa may not be needed). Question is whether I would get 480 points value out of her if I never transform, simply using her as a mage.... that being said, with so much damage mitigation if she did transform she'd have a healthy amount of wounds in her snake form. If none of that persuades you, then I suppose Geminids would be better over the Balewind.
- The other question is whether it is always worth having a Slaughter Queen on cauldron rather than hag... I could shave 30 points off the army if I swapped them but I suppose that command ability is probably worth 100 points on it's own isn't it..?
- Does the cauldron benefit from its own +1 to save?
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5 hours ago, Graywater said:
You are going to be absolutely fine against stormcast and sylvaneth, especially with hagg nar. You have a pretty standard list, minus the absence of either kind of harpies. The choice to go morathi and a big unit of blood sisters is also a bit different, but I like it personally. Both your witch aelf unit and the blood sisters are one size increase away from getting the horde discount, so thatd be nice to get, though I wouldn't know where to get the points from except dropping the medusa and balewind. I dont know if it is worth it though, as a second spell caster is definitely a nice thing to have. Do you play in the realms? If so, I'd double up on mind razor. That way you have options for who can cast it and you arent wasting a spell slot because there are always other useful things to cast.
Your artifact choice isnt bad, as keeping that cauldron alive is important. However, what is maybe more important is keeping your buffs going. Shadow stone on the medusa is big to help get mind razor off, but perhaps not as good since the medusa isnt too hard to kill. Iron circlet is also good to give you rerolls for prayers. Relying on a 2/3 chance when you really need the buff never feels great. Regardless of whether you change the artifact, I'd move blessing of khaine to the cauldron, as that prayer is essential in keeping your units alive and the cauldron is much harder to kill than the lone hag. Plus, the cauldron is giving the 5++, so your consolidating the buffs with that move.
As for formatting, I have no idea. I can tell you used warscroll builder, which is what is typically used, but I dont know why yours is spaced the way it is.
Do you mean the realm rules? Aren't they just for casual/fun games as they seem a little unbalanced/random for competitive games.
Indeed I've gone for a block of Blood Sisters because I adore their models and boy can they put out the damage in the right conditions. I'd love to have them be tanky too with the Cauldron of Blood for a sweet 4+/5++.
The most important spell must be assigned to Morathi, as her natural +1 to cast would be pretty useful.
Actually I chose to put Catechism of Murder on the Cauldron precisely because it already has the defensive buffs that it does - do you think the unit underneath it also needs rerolls to the save? I thought putting it on the Hag would give it more versatility considering it is giving offensive buffs (+1 attack to witch elves, and the witch brew).
I tried to copy your formatting but I get massive spaces between paragraphs...
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What do you guys think of the below list? It utilises every model I own, without overdoing it on SoS or WE which are expensive and boring to paint en masse! I feel like this isn't as many wounds as I'd like (you're probably going to tell me to drop the Medusa), but I feel like this has a fair bit of punch among my casual group (Stormcast Eternals and Sylvaneth). Does this work? Is it worth moving the artifact over to the Medusa?
Also how do I format this better? Why are there such huge spaces between lines...?
Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine - Temple: Hagg Nar
LEADERS
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood (330)
- General
- Command Trait : Devoted Disciples
- Artefact : Thousand and One Dark Blessings
- Prayer : Catechism of Murder
Hag Queen (90)
- Prayer : Blessing of Khaine
Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
- Lore of Shadows : The Withering
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- Lore of Shadows : Mindrazor
UNITS
15 x Blood Sisters (420)
20 x Witch Aelves (240) - Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
10 x Sisters of Slaughter (120) - Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives
10 x Sisters of Slaughter (120) - Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Balewind Vortex (40)
TOTAL: 1980/2000
EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0
WOUNDS: 100
LEADERS: 4/6
BATTLELINES: 3 (3+)
BEHEMOTHS: 1/4
ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 1/1
ALLIES: 0/400
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4 minutes ago, Graywater said:
I'm right there with you. The inability for it to move on it's own is what I couldn't stand. So this is mine. It's a helstalker from the 40k lord discordant kit, but the saddle has been replaced with the platform for my "hag" to stand on. I dont have a side picture but it has a small ruined wall on the side that its crawling up to give it some height. Then the avatar of yncarne is my avatar model. I have it floating off the top of that low wall.
Very clever using an alternative Avatar model! Love it - though I feel the monster below perhaps is not thematic enough to fit with DoK, this conversion is beautiful, and hands down beats the 'wheelchair' of blood
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Hi all I really don't like the Cauldron of Blood model. It looks really goofy for me, flimsy, and weird.
However as much as I'd like to skip it, it really does seem like a must-take in DoK, so has anyone managed to convert it or have a GW model proxy as it?
I was thinking of converting one of the giant chariots of Slaanesh into one. Has anyone done it before, have ideas or pictures?
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Hi all I really don't like the Cauldron of Blood model. It looks really goofy for me, flimsy, and weird.
However as much as I'd like to skip it, it really does seem like a must-take in DoK, so has anyone managed to convert it or have a GW model proxy as it?
I was thinking of converting one of the giant chariots of Slaanesh into one. Has anyone done it before, have ideas or pictures?
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Hi as the title says, I've realized that I do not have the time to paint up everything I need in time for an event with my friends that is coming up soon, but I'm looking to hire a painting service to help me out with some Melusai.
Can anyone recommend a painting service or have a list of painting service providers?
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19 minutes ago, KoalaSnok said:
1-3: Yes. (I suppose you mean s2d wizards in question 1)
4: Only the 4 godspecific battalions which all specifically state that they can be used both in their respective god's allegiance and s2t allegiance.
This is my perception at least, please correct me if Im wrong.
Thank you.
So you're saying that I could not use a Ruinbringer battalion with Slaanesh Allegiance?
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I'm a beginner to this game. I like versatility of rules and builds in my armies, so S2D are perfect for me (5 useable battletome allegiances).
1) Can mortal wizards in god-marked allegiances cast S2D endless spells?
2) Can god-marked wizards in S2D allegiance cast god-marked endless spells?
3) Can a khorne-marked warshrine in S2D allegiance army cast Judgements?
4) Can I use S2D battalions in god-marked armies without worrying about allies?
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2 minutes ago, themortalgod said:
Yeah, that is fairly similar to lists I run. Though I tend to either go heavy on Ushabti or Knights, usually not both. I prefer to spend the points on bigger units of chariots because I find 15 wounds is just too easy to obliterate in a single turn and deny me recovering them. The latest build I'm planning to run is:
TKoECTomb Prince
Herald
Herald
Herald
9 Chariots
5 Horsemen
10 Skeletons
6 Knights.
Not sure how the herald spam will play out but I'm curious to see how it will work. Bringing back 4 Knights per turn could be crazy powerful.The other list I run a lot is
TKoEC
Tomb Prince
Necrotect
6 Chariots
3 Chariots
5 Horsemen
6 Ushabti
6 Ushabti
6 Ushabti
3 Ushabti
That list does quite well. Most armies can't deal with all the Ushabti. I also have experimented with a 27 Ushabti list that doesn't bring a TKoEC. It has done ok as well.
I never run Liche Priest anymore, they just don't bring much value. Statistically smiting doesn't actually increase output enough to be worth paying 120pts for. Especially when you consider that it likely will only be cast (and not unbound) about half of the time.
And you are correct. Settra only nerfs other command abilities if he is present on the field. Though, I feel that TKs now are too CP starved to really stack many command abilities anyway.
I agree on the Ushabti math - I also did the math recently and figured out they're pretty good on their own.
I thought bringing along a Liche Priest would be useful as a form of unbinding, and technically an endless spell thrown in there too. You don't really need him for the Ushabti but if you have 6 Necropolis Knights that is when you get the real value. But are you sure in what you say? Remember that Necrovenom on 5+ is giving you a lot of MWs.
I would've liked to capture the feel of 'legions' and have lots of infantry, but I simple don't have any skeleton foot trips, and the old Tomb King ones looked pretty poor anyway (aside from the shields which are awesome).
Was always curious about a Khalida shooty list, but the buffs don't really seem to make them all that great.
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Just now, themortalgod said:
I've never heard of it being banned anywhere. It is certainly powerful but in the great big scheme of ridiculously powerful combos in the game I don't feel it is nearly as outrageous as what some armies have access to.
Even if it was questionable in terms of balance, I wouldn't feel bad about using it in TKs given that the rest of the army is pretty neutered compared to modern armies. (lack of spell lore, allegiance abilities, artifacts, etc. Not to mention almost every unit in the army ranging from somewhat overpriced to obnoxiously overpriced)I feel you. I'm planning to use the following:
Settra
Liche Priest
Herald
Chariots x3
Chariots x3
Chariots x3
Ushabti x9
Necropolis Knights x6
I think I have enough staying power with the herald to keep the Legions units alive. The Ushabti still hit surprisingly hard (around 21 wounds against a 4+ save with Settra buff).
Oh and one more thing - technically Settra's Command ability nerfs command abilities to only be useable once.... but if he's not in the game and his warscroll isn't being used, I don't think his warscroll should be cancelling anybody else's in case, say, you want to bring along a Tomb King or Tomb Queen and stack it.
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1 hour ago, themortalgod said:
Yeah, I felt the same until Malign Sorcery, 80pts of garbage turned into 80pts of god.
As you suggest though, the 9" charge is problematic and if you fail it leaves him in a super vulnerable position. That is why I almost never deep strike him. I just deploy him with my army as usual. Usually someplace in the middle behind a unit of infantry where he is pretty safe. This allows him to move up into the middle of the board where he has a massive threat range (12" + 2d6" in any direction). Your opponent then has two choices, either completely avoid that area with his monsters and heroes (big win for you) or step into that threat range and risk getting an expensive model deleted. (big win for you)Personally, I feel that the addition of another mega threat for 80pts is far more valuable than any artifact you can give the TKoEC
Isn't Sword of Judgement usually banned? The item feels a little 'cheap', in that it is outrageously powerful with just a couple of modifiers.
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On 9/3/2019 at 8:39 PM, themortalgod said:
Given that other legends units have been re-written/modified before going into legends I wouldn't be surprised to see the same happen with TKs before being eternally stuck. (for better or worse)
At the very least Id expect to see TKoEC fixed and for Scarab Prince to be smacked with the nerf bat.LOL and there I thought the Scarab Prince was the worst thing and a joke of a unit. Just realised it can get 5 Attacks at 2+/2+, with D6 MWs on any 4+ to hit.
But with a 9" to charge is it really going to be that reliable to land the charge against the particular hero you wish to snipe?
I do love the idea of the guy actually being scary, considering it is a dirty, traitorous little ****** who vomits scarabs on people. But not sure if it is worth taking away the artifact from Settra to do this.
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I like the look of the horses, and the hero with the scythe. The rest don't really do it for me (big tomb kings fan). I admire the direction but sadly it doesn't scratch the itch. I wish everyone collecting them well though, even if I suspect this will be a very expensive army to collect. I'm also a little weirded out by the grinning visages and hunched postures.
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I'm not sure how to better spend those 100 or 200 points than a batallion which provides a command point to a starved army, and with a nice MW bounce back ability to a block of tanky warriors and knights.
AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
I've had a look at the three Cancon lists running Plaguetouched. They do indeed have 8+ units, but that could be because they did not want to risk running afoul of a ruling... or that they genuinely wanted those two extra Chaos Spawn in their list ;).