Snakeb1te

Not sure about your model availability but here would by my suggestions: You don't need two Sorceror Lords, replace one with the Chaos Lord to allow one of the Marauder blobs to pile in twice and delete something! If you do that, you won't need a second Exalted Hero in my opinion, as you will not be able to spend a command point every turn to summon in AND use the Chaos Lord fight twice. I'd replace the second Exalted Hero with one squad of Marauder Horsemen.

Buffs are what make the difference but unless you're running 15+ I don't see them being worth the buffs as I doubt you'd manage to get all 15 into combat, and there are other units that can deliver more with these buffs. Marauders as you say- are the way to go. I agree with you about the disconnect, which is why I'm running Warrior models as Chosen - that way I get to see the Armoured doing some damage alongside the Unwashed masses! Marks I would suggest reconsidering the Undivided Mark. From a rules perspective - I think it is generally accepted that most of the units in this book aren't terribly points efficient and lack for damage aside from a few particular combos. What this means is that you might have trouble displacing well entrenched enemy units from objectives, which is a problem considering we also have a low model count and will generally have our objectives contested. Khorne, Nurgle and Slaanesh marks have the potential to help you with that. That's not to say Undivided doesn't have its place, but when it comes to units with low damage output relative to their points (Warriors, Knights, Varanguard) you want to try to get the most out of them with mark buffs that'll give them more bite. Battleshock immunity is tremendous, but do you think it does enough? Playtesting will give you that answer. From an aesthetics perspective - I also prefer the Undivided look. But in my mind, if I give them the marks they are just rules to help the unit fight better. Just because my unit can reroll 1s and do extra damage near a general doesn't mean I have to paint them Khornate. Take the rule you like and you can generally justify it (within reason). Halberds I don't have such a conclusive answer on Halberds. Again I think most people would advise you to avoid, but I would argue that they do have a place. As I mentioned before, Warriors are an anvil unit so you really want those higher numbers and shields, in order to activate the defensive buffs. Once you hit a certain number of models (arguably 15+) it gets pretty difficult to make sure they all fight during the combat phase - using halberds resolves that. Using halberds comes with the 4+ to wound however. That is not good at all, and without reroll to wounds you're looking at a significant damage drop off. This is why I mentioned before that marking your units to assist with damage output is important. A Khorne general near that 20+ Halberd unit is going to give them 2 attacks at 3+ (rerolling 1s) 3+, which if you can get all 20 models to fight is quite powerful. Slaanesh wouldn't be too bad either, but you'd need to give that unit one of the many reroll hits/wounds that you have available. Then if you can afford to add +1 attack in Bloodsecrator, or Khorne Battalion - then you're going to add a lot of value to a unit that is attacking in multiple ranks. But much of this advice depends massively on your opponent. If you have more details about that we can tailor our responses further. EDIT: Totally agree with the guy saying go with what you think is cool ;). That is what I am doing, with some 'counts as' with regard to Warriors as Chosen, and Undivided colour scheme on units which will always be marked. As a poster above said, if you like the look of greatblade warriors, or twin weapons, or halberds, go for it! They aren't all THAT different from each other, and with supporting elements they can all work.

I think Shields are the best, followed closely by the twin weapons. 5 Chaos Warriors with Greatblades vs 5 Chaos Warriors with Twin weapons (11 attacks): Default - Twin weapons more damage against save of 3+ or less Khorne General aura - Twin weapons more damage against save of 3+ or less Khorne Hero aura - Equal damage at 4+ save, Twin weapons better at 5+ or less Full rerolls to hit AND wound - Greatblades are better That's just a short summary. There are obviously quite a few other permutations that we could go with. In most situations our twin weapons are better, with the exception being the expenditure of Daemonic power or Undivided Warshrine buff - but if you think of those as resources, then you are having to 'spend' more to make the greatblades better. The main point is that we shouldn't be relying on Chaos Warriors to deal damage anyway. They are a unit designed to hold the line, given by the fact they have two wounds, a good save, option to deny mortal wounds, reroll saves at higher numbers, and their 32mm base size which inhibits good pile-ins and and are limited by weapon reach. Otherwise, you would take them at minimum size simply to use as battleline, meet battalion requirements, or act as a mini screen. I think most people would agree with me that your best bet is to buff some other unit more able pile-in to combat which has more damage. But to your question - between twin weapons and shields? Either one is fine but I'd prefer the shields. The damage is never going to be mindblowing with this unit, so you might as well make them that bit harder to remove. If you want the beefy rend attacks I'd just take Chosen, who have an extra attack, a better hit roll and a little mortal wound output, along with an aura buff if they kill a model. In my gaming circle, I just run them as Chosen, alongside Chaos Knights, and the occasional Varanguard unit. Marauders fill up battleline. I want my Start Collecting Chaos Warriors to be as scary as they look!

I am referring to it. Now that the Empty Throne rules are part of the '5th' legion of our S2D tome, we can include the Bloodmarked Warband battalion. Combine that with a Bloodsecrator and/or the Doom-Sigil (though at the moment I would never use it due to it failing when there's a double turn) - Daemonforged Blades Varanguard could become quite potent. Pile in twice within 6" with grasping plate? Great!

I'm referring to this... I want to see it!

To be clear - any hero in the Knights of the Empty Throne list can perform the Unmatched Conqueror's command ability right? Not just Varanguard I hope. Also could someone post the Bloodmarked KotET list? I'm trying to make one myself.

So Legion of Chaos Ascendant, and Legion of the First Prince - are both separate allegiances to S2D. Only Knights of the Empty Throne are a sub-allegiance of the overall S2D then?

Wait wait - so the FAQ means we're finally getting to use the three S2D allegiances as a of our book at last? How did you get three artifacts - shouldn't you only have two? Does the whole unit of Varanguard make use of the artifacts? Also that is a very very cool thematic list. Making use of the Untamed beasts for early game screening is something Rob has been harping on about for ages now.

That's a cool list @DaCapo but I don't think it would be terribly effective. The Marauder Horsemen that you've taken in groups of x10 melt easily to basically anything - and their low bravery (bravery 7 if in range of Archaon otherwise bravery 5) would mean you'd lose some to battleshock. We can see that you're trying to put together a beastie list, but then you might want to take 3 x 5 Marauder Horsemen, freeing up 360 points for other things. Gaunt Summoner for magical support perhaps?

Hi guys - quick point of clarification. Using the AoS mobile phone app, if I include Skarbrand in my S2D army he is listed as having the Aura of Khorne. Am I right in thinking that this is a mistake? I was under the impression that units outside this book could neither benefit from nor emit an aura.

*Cough*. Thanks. I've reviewed those scrolls over and over but from the beginning my eyes were glazing over that part as I tried to figure out the book synergies. Damn! Sorry!

One thing that annoys me personally, is that the S2D units lost the ability to be marked on their warscroll. This means there's no sense in using them in a Grand Alliance Chaos allegiance as they won't receive any buffs from the other army units. But I totally agree with TheWorldTree. Cultist units really should've at least had the Undivided trait, and Chaos Warriors some kind of rend. It is so frustrating that they pushed marauders this way. Now what - if I go out and buy a bunch of Marauders and Marauder Horsemen, go through all the effort of mixing and matching bits with other sets - then they release a Marauder box in 6 months. Man I'm gonna be pissed. Same with Chosen.

A unit can only belong to one battalion unfortunately. Which is why I like that the Karkadrak has the same charge ability as the ruinbringer, as he can still make use of it in godsworn Sorcerer with teleport - understood. What about the fights last spell? If I had another 100 points I would definitely include the Sphiranx, as I think some presence in the activation wars is a big deal. Plus the teleport seems really weird thematically... and I want the Marauders to be some kind of a screen.

Yes the idea is to have the two heroes getting stuck in as they're both relatively killy, helped further by a trait and artifact. A Sorceror would be my bet as well, though I wondered whether some among you would prefer the Chaos Lord to make use of the extra CPs. I mean, I could go the Ensorcelled - my friends would be kind enough to let me have the lances 'count as'. Just thought that as the list is living and dying on its charges, that I might as well go all in with that. With enough mounted units, I'd be looking to cycle charge the lance units. I won't have cutting edge S-tier lists as my opponents - if I do I'll play my Daughters of Khaine. This list is for the average person who may have semi-optimised. That being said, the idea is that this army has a fair bit of damage, and if I get 'pinned' in my deployment zone on turn one, all that means is I'll be within charge range on turn one or two. Besides, with Ravagers, I'd have the option of summoning around the table, so in theory be in a position to claw back some ground.

Ok - well here's a fanciful but fluffy list. Not for tournaments, just casual club play but hopefully with some bite. Two Battalions - thematic list. Legion: Ravagers Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount (170)5 x Chaos Knights (either weapon, counts as) (180)5 x Chaos Knights (either weapon, counts as) (180)5 x Chaos Knights (either weapon, counts as) (180)1 x Chaos Chariots (120)Ruinbringer Warband (140) Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (250)20 x Chaos Marauders (150)5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)5 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (90)5 x Chaos Chosen (140)Godsworn Champions of Ruin (180)Total: 1870 / 2000 Things to consider: This is a 3 drop army, with at least 3 CPs in turn one. Ruinbringer units have high armor and high health, which should allow them to survive and get more charges off. Deliberately opted for MSU for more D3s. Everything in the Godsworn battalion is essentially expendable, as it revolves around the damage of the Karkadrak anyway. For Ravager summons, I only have 20 x Marauder models waiting in the wings, though I guess one of the two Marauder Horsemen units would eventually die and be brought back on. I haven' t included Chaos Warriors because I find their warscroll doesn't reflect the badassery of the model - running them as Chosen instead. Questions for y'all: Spend the 130 remaining points? If I don't take a 3rd hero I would lose a command trait, an artifact, and a ravagers summon. Which marks? Slaanesh seems the best to me what with the extra attacks and rerolling charges, but without a warshrine - maybe undivided or tzeentch for durability? Which artifacts? Chamon or Ulgu would be the realms of choice because of the -3 rend item that I would give the Karkadrak. Any other tips/changes?

You're not wrong but as a member posted after you - I was referring to a double-turn situation. Sounds to me like you misunderstood so I'm not particularly offended, but I'm just going to point out that if you felt I was about to make a fool out of myself for emailing the errata team, you could've said so and explained why, rather than being sarcastic and posting the rules. I don't think I was coming across entitled so it was a little uncalled for. If I interpret this somewhat charitably, you do have a point if what you're suggesting is that by electing to take the double-turn you're already getting enough of a benefit, and so it is by design that the sigil would have no effect. But I'd argue that this would be a very disappointing 40 point endless spell then. The point remains however, that there can be situations where you go through the work of tallying it all up, only for the buff to disappear without it being used until your opponent's combat phase - that sounds a little awkward to be intended by the rules writers.. It should instead say "until the end of that player's next turn". This would allow the buff to be applied in my turn, and then rerolled/reapplied at the end of that turn going into the following one. If anyone has additional points of query for the rules team do let me know.

I don't feel as if I need a refresher..? The sigil buff is applied at the end of the turn and undone at the start of that player's hero phase. If that player has a double turn (me as the S2D player or my opponent) I will have gone through the effort of counting casualties, allocating attacks, picking units to get the buff... for nothing. That's just a bad gameplay experience, and pretty silly to cast an endless spell and not get anything for it for potentially two turns (I cast it at start of my turn 2, allocate attacks at end of turn 2. But I go first in battle round 3, lose all the attacks, and have to apply them all again at the end of my turn 3). The other question will be to clarify whether the god battalions need a hero in addition to the x units, or whether the hero requirement can be fulfilled within the x units. Any other reasonable points that people want me to bring up? I'm not going to mention points decreases or anything like that - this is rules interpretation only. I'll post back here if I get a response.

Brilliant. I plan to do the same for x40 Marauders, grabbing a couple of the Untamed Beasts or Splintered Fang boxes. Right! *rolls sleeves up*

How can I contact GW for errata/designer note inclusions and queries?

Is this confirmed? In Warscroll builder the Knights of the Empty throne are pickable as a Legion.

Can you clarify what you're referring to here? Also I've just realised the Doom Sigil is almost completely pointless. Here's an example You summon it in your hero phase. At the end of your turn, you allocate attacks to your units. You roll priority and elect to double-turn. "Lasts until that player's next hero phase" means all the attacks you got in the previous turn are instantly removed. What the heck? That seems pretty damn pointless - and I REALLY wanted this spell to work as there are a number of units which could benefit from +1 attack.

I'm personally going to use the new sculpts of Chaos Warriors as Chosen, so that their combat ability matches their look and reputation. Sure I'll be missing an anvil, but the idea is to use some nurgle marauders as a bit of both (using Untamed Beasts as proxies). To be honest though - any of the cultist units and Darkoath themes do not appear to be terribly competitive, as they completely miss out on the allegiance auras and Warshrine buffs, which are most of the army's allegiance. Maybe do as I plan to, playing a small number of Warriors as Chosen, lots of Marauders, Knights, and beefy heroes.

Tough to justify taking out the warshrine. Without it you're losing a lot of staying power in the +1 save prayer, as well as the aura. Moreover, the marauder horsemen are very fragile, so half of your warband will be gone fairly quickly. I've been thinking about a ruinbringer band for a little while now, but I'm not sure it's worth it unless you have at least five units. A full mounted list would get a lot of value from it but I'm not sure that your minimum size list - especially with only two of the tanky variants - would make this worth it.

A single mortal wound on a 5+? That doesn't seem worth it in the slightest. The reason they're even considered is their very fast speed combined with a huge base to plug the gaps. But at 120 they're still pants, they're just cheaper than x5 knights.

Park them on an objective, too gross that enemy units don't want to come near..? ;D