[The Rumour Thread]

Grots: "Hey our bad moon is the baddest around"

Black Legion: "hold my beer."

 

Wonder how usable these new kits will be for AoS? Curious to see.

[The Rumour Thread]

12 minutes ago, JPjr said:

Well, looks like I'm going to have to totally revaluate everything I thought I knew about WWI & II now.

The treaty of Versaille nerfs changed the meta

[The Rumour Thread]

5 minutes ago, Overread said:

The mods confirmed it was another user posting under an alternate account and as for their rumours, well the skaven battletome coming next year was a bit sooner than expected  NDA also went very quiet once called out.

 

Suffice it to say even if they acted in good faith their source is likely unreliable and thus far proven incorrect. 

Ah, fair, musta missed that part. Oh well.

Also, since the debate keeps coming up about rumours vs facts, I petition that this thread to be renamed 'Whispers of Ulgu' so we know that there's an expectation of unreliability, rather than cold hard fact (that can be the "Hysh Bulletin").

[The Rumour Thread]

It's not like the NDA breaker thing was definitively disproved. It was fishy, and there were contradictions (the thing about KO being merged, and then going back on that) which were likely mistruths but could've been miscommunications in the leak chain. Let's not fixate on it, but we don't know. 

If I remember correctly, the biggest, juicy rumour of last year was 'Deep One Elves', which were speculated about as Cthulhu-inspired in aesthetic (like the Tenebrael Shard).

And while we did get Deepkin later, the actual army bore little resemblance to the Lovecraftian rumours (more Atlantian than anything). That was our biggest, most reliable rumour, and it still turned out only half-right. 

I like hearing the rumours. I may be disappointed on occasion if they don't manifest, sure, but the only thing to do when you hear them is file away and wait to see what comes of it. 

[The Rumour Thread]

 [Obligatory pinch of salt for unsubstantiated rumours]

Aside from sounding like quite a fun game (and well suited for AoS, what with the magnitude of terrain), there are two juicy snippets which excite me: foot Varanguard (which hopefully will be a replacement for the Chosen: I've got to believe GW has heeded the endless complaints about being unable to mark them without fielding Archaon), and the possible release of Highborn/Exiles elf battletomes (tidying up the danglers, woo!). 

[The Rumour Thread]

19 minutes ago, michu said:

No, he's not. When Fyreslayers book will be released (or rather if), Doomseeker won't be there as it's currently OOP. Same goes for Excelsior Warpriest (but Darkoath Chieftain is still there, go figure).

Someone recently mentioned a key distinction in what does and doesn't get released separately after a Boxed gamed goes OOP: shared vs separate sprues.

All of the Silver Tower HEROES are on separate sprues, which means GW could easily sell them separately (and currently does with the Chieftain, Ogroid and the Knight-Questor). Because of this, I would put money of GW re-releasing the Doomseeker alongside the inevitable Fyreslayer update. Unfortunately, the same thing doesn't apply for the miniatures of shared sprues, which means we probably won't see the Deathrunner again. I guess you just use it as the deathmaster. 

[The Rumour Thread]

Oh, speaking of the ST Doomseeker, is the Deathrunner in the new Skaven tome? I assume not since I've not heard anything.

[The Rumour Thread]

Oh,

Just now, amysrevenge said:

Thanes and Ironbreakers and Hammerers -> Hearth and Hold ->  Valaya -> ??? Something new

 

Valaya is also the god of alcohol, so Battletome: Sloshed Stunties confirmed? 

[The Rumour Thread]

3 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

Fyreslayers represent Grimnir, Kharadron Overlords represent Grungni, Dispossessed represent the late (?) Valaya.

Kharadron have a sort of secular, post-ancestor culture (except for Barak-Thryng, who are basically Duardin Rockabillies ). The dispossessed seem to have a greater link to Grungni, which comes across in Spear of Shadows (they do feel a bit abandoned by him, though). Valaya would have to be a whole new faction, as she's currently forgotten. But poised for a comeback (the more I say it, the more likely it is to happen, right? That's how new age stuff works?) 

[The Rumour Thread]

Just now, Thomas Lyons said:

Agreed, that said, I think that is how you fix Dispossessed.  By the lore, they're dwarves that have been rejected from their holds, hence the name. I think you keep the core faction and keywords, but allow them to include any other Duardin keyworded unit (so FS, KO, Iron Weld) in the army as not an ally, although they gain the dispossessed abilities (i.e. grudges for past sins against them, resolute, etc.). So those other allegiances (KO and FS) maintain their distinct character, while recognizing that even Fyreslayers can be dispossessed of their holds and find common cause in grudge-settling with their kin. 

Yeah, I'm less certain on the mechanics front (not my area, that's for others to offer their expertise) but in terms on lore, I think a Khardon/Dispossessed merger makes sense along the lines of an Ancestor god reunification (which therefore leaves out the 'post-enlightenment' KO).

• The Fyreslayers have a distinct and established culture of lodges, but their main priority is restoring the shattered essence of Grimnir.
• Grungni, who could act as the Dispossessed's 'returning ancestral father', could offer the Fyreslayers help in that quest in return for reestablishing old alliances.
• Perhaps Valaya manages through some contrivance to escape Shyish/Nagash's belly, where she could act as a third party keeping the brothers together (release a few models so it acts as the Thunderscorn/Troggoth smallest third faction). 

Presto, three factions in one book. Like the Gitz, each has a distinct identity but have a strong unifying theme (with GG it's permutations of the Bad Moon, with Duardin it's the Ancestor Gods). 

 

[The Rumour Thread]

2 minutes ago, Requizen said:

BCR maybe souped with Gutbusters?

I'm also into the rapid release of battletomes, even if it shortchanges some factions of a massive release. The underrated part of that approach is this: JUST THINK OF HOW MUCH LORE WE'RE GOING TO GET!

It was less relevant with 40k, as the Codexes were just re-issues of established factions, but let's not forget that Gutbusters, Wanderers, Dispossessed etc. have had very slim write-ups in this new setting, so we don't yet have their 'identity' nailed down. 

I do hope 'soup' doesn't become the default. This is a personal opinion (I did a whole wishlist write-up on reddit about it) but I DO NOT WANT BCR and Gutbusters combining. I'm a narrative guy, so combining factions is something which I'd want lore justification before a mechanical one, and the whole Everwinter nomad theme the BCR have is difficult to marry with the more traditional tribal Gutbuster Ogors. Same reason why Bonesplitterz and Ironjawz benefit from separation.

As for Wanderers and Sylvaneth or Fyreslayers and Dispossessed, I can see lore reasons why you'd want them to combine. Both would be strained alliances, but that's good: internal conflict can make for interesting stories. Allarielle would be resentful about the Wanderers abandoning them, but be forced to accept their return because of the dangers posed by Nurgle and Nagash, while the Dispossessed/Fyreslayer alliance could be established by Grungni, finally deciding to return to his people and leveraging a promise to help the Fyreslayers reassemble his brother Grimnir in return for partnership (throw in the shock return of Valaya, and you got yourself a Gloomspite Git tri-faction book). 

The Aelves, though... that's a messy situation. I think the old saying applies to GW here: ****** or get off the pot.

They've had over 3 years, it's time to  pull an Ironjawz (flesh out one or two unique units into a whole faction) with some subfactions (Phoenix Temple are probably the best choice) and bung the rest together so they're playable. 

[The Rumour Thread]

It's pretty much what we expected, right? A smaller offering for AoS than last time (40k got the substantive reveals) but still some cool tidbits and hints.

Slaanesh reveal on the 14th? 

[The Rumour Thread]

27 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

That is weird, because they are honestly pretty new sculpts in regards to stuff carried over from Warhammer Fantasy.  You should have seen the Dragon Ogre sculpts prior to the current plastic ones.

I  like them somewhat, but I can see why people have issues. I think it's the splayed posing which is supposed to be dynamic but looks rigid and unnatural (and the feet: the only reason I'm not planning to get Thunderscorn allies is I that CBA to resculpt them).

But, as you say, in terms of detail and overall aesthetic they are quite good. I think the gold standard for older sculpt are regular Ogors: they've got a great amount of detail and their languid posing suits a lumbering gait. 

[The Rumour Thread]

I actually think GW should go forward with a mix of diverse 'mega-factions' (Legions of Nagash, Skaven) AND smaller niche offerings (Sylvaneth, Ironjawz),  obviously sticking with the middleweight class too (Idoneth Deepkin, Seraphon). There's an appeal in both an expansive sandbox and a niche, distinct faction identity.

But, and this is where it's just my opinion, there comes a point where certain factions like the 4 Kit (plus 1) Flesh Eater Courts just don't have enough 'meat' to them. Proper fixes for this becomes modifying the lore to fit with a 'merger' or supplementing the faction with fresh releases (which with FEC they're trying, and the debate is whether that's enough).

It's making me wonder about the Duardin/Ogor rumours we've been getting. There's a similarity in that both old world armies have been fragmented, with at least one splinter being a codified AoS army which has been criticized for its lack of diversity (Beastclaw Raiders and Fyreslayers). Do we see them getting into a grand Duardin/Ogor coaltion? It's anybody's guess.

My prediction would be that Kharadron Overlords always remain independent, as they have a strong aesthetic ripe for future development and have independence baked in. As for the Fyreslayers, I could possibly see them getting combined in a Dwarf 'Gloomspite' style release that emphasizes the three traditional Duardin ancestor gods: Grimnir's Fyreslayers (receiving no new models, as their modest number is sufficient as an army's 'third'), Grungni (who gets an actual model release following his appearance in various novels, and leads a cleaned-up Dispossessed faction with the appropriate Ironweld mixed in) and Valaya (presumed-dead Goddess making a comeback with a small, mixed-gender pious sub-faction). 

As for the Ogors, it could really go either way. If FEC is anything to go by, Gutbusters have enough diversity to go it alone. Firebellies or even Maneaters could be expanded to a whole subfaction. My guess would be that the BCR remain separate, but hope that they would get a few kits accompanying a fleshed out Gutbuster release. All BCR need to feel like a vibrant faction is rules rewrite and a few extra models. If they released new Yhetees along with a Yhetee Ice Shaman hero, I'd jump on that frozen wagon immediately (the lustre of endless spells and terrain is starting to wane a little for me, but I'd be hyped about massive ice-blizzard pieces. Like, how appropriate would it be to have purple sun sized ice vortexes of the Everwinter?).

 

[The Rumour Thread]

1 hour ago, HollowHills said:

I don't think we will ever see Island of Blood sculpts again to be honest. Dark Vengeance for 40k had an excellent chaos lord, cultists and marines as well as a load of Dark Angels sculpts that have never been released. If you want chaos cultists in 40k you currently have to buy them in a box of 5 with all the same monopose, even though DV came with loads of options. 

Basically anything with shared sprues is dead. 

Aren't the Silver Tower minis on shared sprues? They released the Ogroid and the foot Gaunt Summoner alongside Tzeentch (oh, and the Knight-Questor for SCE). I mean sure, that might be a blip, but I'd be surprised if they didn't repackage the Deathrunner at some point (curious that it hasn't been mentioned). After all, for better or worse this release has embraced a degree of asset recycling, so why not give clan Eshin their only new hero in AoS? 

GW took some positive steps in releasing some of the original starter set separately (Vandus and Korgos Khul). I think the Bloodsecrator and Khorgos box is sold out, but the models are still available in one half of the original starter, as they split the factions into Thunderstrike Brotherhood and Goreblade Warband boxes. While I feel for SCE player being unable to get a Relictor separately (well, other than Ebay), having them disappear entirely is way worse.

The whole limited edition model question is more pertinent when it's a distinct model (like the Ogroid or Khorgorath). When it's just an alternative sculpt of an existing unit, like the Silver Tower blue horrors,  it's not such a problem. The caveat to this is when there's a quality disparity between the up-to-date looking limited edition sculpt and the 'official' model: a hideous hunk of resin/metal. The webstore  Rat Ogors beside the Spire ones are like... well, Mantic beside Citadel. 

But there's no definitive precedent. After all, the Darkoath Chieftain, Warpriest and Fyreslayer from Silver Tower are not on sale. Are they to be released alongside their parent faction getting an update? Who knows? 

 

I mean, the fact that they've implied no new models *technically* doesn't preclude them from putting the ST Deathrunner up for pre-order on the 16th. Fingers crossed for Eshin fans. 

[The Rumour Thread]

I don't blame anyone for disappointed. I'm excited about to hear about the new lore, but in the case of FEC models, it's a little underwhelming (and not because of the lack of actual units, I think the Skaven stuff is awesome).

On the sliding scale of 'okay' to 'amazing' that AoS releases tend to fall on, the Skaven better represents its faction. The Gnawholes are a crowd-pleasing, intriguing depiction of just 'how' Skaven burrow through reality. Then their endless spells hit the key beats: bell, realmstone, the dreaded 13th spell.

Meanwhile, IMO the FEC stuff is a little generic. The endless spells look fine, but really: if no one told you which factions they were for, would you be able to guess? The goblet is generic death, only the red colour implying FEC or Soulblight. The fence would fit equally in deathmages/deadwalkers. None of this captures the admittedly elusive themes of madness, delusion and flesh-EATING that define FEC. The terrain piece is a little better, subtly hinting at the duality in the detail, but 'ruins and some skulls' is not the kind of maverick, creative thinking that GW has spoiled us with in GG, IDK, Maggotkin etc. 

I  don't want to harsh anyone's buzz. The model quality, as ever, is on point. But in terms of theming the army to its great AoS lore, opportunities were missed.

[The Rumour Thread]

Yeah, you'd think that they would allude to the possibility of ANY more things on the way.  Makes me discount the possibility. That said, is there any precedent for a non-model featured on anything as integral to the faction as warscroll cards or battletomes? It's so specific as well. 

[The Rumour Thread]

1 minute ago, lord_blackfang said:

Since you can't field them in units of 20, that's pretty irrelevant to the topic.

Ah, I can't read the rest of the text on the card. You're saying it's an ability that effects units not heroes? In that case, who knows, maybe there's more stuff on the way. I doubt it, going by the article, but there's always a chance. 

[The Rumour Thread]

Just now, lord_blackfang said:

That's what I imagine. But it only makes sense if we have at least 2 types of SERF, doesn't it? So that's at least one new thing.

You can build a  Crypt Ghast Courtier out of the ghoul kit. 

[The Rumour Thread]

So we finally get to find out what's up with Thaquol? Wooooo! Unless his model becomes a generic hero. 

Is REVENANT a horror keyword and SERF a ghoul keyword? 

Man, those skaven Gnawholes look great. A bit disappointed with the FEC stuff: nothing playing to the theme of duality in delusion? Boo! 

[The Rumour Thread]

Pretty sure there's an 'eye of the gods' style rule in the Slaves to Darkness allegiance ability about turning into a Daemon Prince, right? 

We could reasonably assume that it'll be implemented in the new Slave to Darkness book (considering that Beasts of Chaos integrated the Brayherd GHB allegiance). I think it's likely that we'll not only get Darkoath units in an StD release but a new Daemon Prince kit.

The current Daemon Prince kit is old and crucially hasn't been a part of any start collecting bundle. And since they've hinted at a 40k Chaos Marine release this year too, that could pull double duty. I'm curious about two lore questions related to that, though: is Belakor coming back and will there be any other undivided daemons (I guess they could remake the Furies) other than princes and grinders? 

The thing about the old Deamon prince kit, though, is that it's modular and customizable in a way new GW kits tend not be (with some exceptions, like the Rotguts, AoS stuff sacrifices customization for precise design). So if they wanted to do Daemon princes RIGHT, and they are such an iconic part of the lore, I could see them releasing 2 or 3 kits:

• A burly Daemon Prince (which would build as a Khorne or Nurgle prince)
• A lithe Prince (builds Tzeentch or Slaanesh)
• Possibly even a heavily armoured Prince (builds undivided or a re-imagined Belakor)

Splitting the concept of a DP into three kits would be the dream situation for customization, especially since the sprue is going to have to contain some 40k themed bits to make it work for both systems. The bits possibilities are endless, but I can just see the various different wing options (maimed Khornate bat-wings, rotting Nurgle fly wings, crooked Tzeentchian raven wings and bedazzled Slaaneshi butterfly wings). 

Reintegrating demon princes (and their different permutations) into the lore would really round out a chaos release. Plus it's an opportunity to make them more formidable on the TT. They don't need to be at the level of Greater Daemons, but as it stands they are less scary than a foot Megaboss. Surely they should be a 250 point brawler that could go toe-to-toe with a Dankhold Troggoth? 

 

[The Rumour Thread]

 

9 minutes ago, Retro said:

I don't know if it's been covered before but this was an idea I had re flesheaters.

Seeing as the fluff says how they are delusional and think they are chivalrous  knights, introduce some ghoul cavalry of some sort.

Then allow all bretonian models to be flesh eater courts (no conversion required).

If you use bretonian models, that represents how they see themselves, if you use the ghoulish models that's how the world sees them.

Yeah, I had this thought too. I think it would be realistic if they implemented Morathi-like dual-model units in certain places.

Like, they could sell a noble regent model: an optional upgrade which is your Ghoul King when first deployed, having rules representing their enchanting presence (simulating how their enemies can't help but fall under the madness), with a mechanic for transformation after they're damaged.  You'd probably have a foot version and then a pegasus monarch to represent the mounted ghoul king. 

I think this would make a great two-piece terrain kit. One half is the 'Royal Marquee', a regal tent outpost for a lord's hunting party with wealthy amenities. Then you have its true form: a 'Carrion Cave' where the ghouls pile up the bones of victims. The opportunities for fun mechanics there goes without saying. 

I hope they run with the delusion idea, it's one of AoS's better lore additions. 

[The Rumour Thread]

Oooh, if we're doing Gutbuster speculation:

• Gnoblars on the Irongut sprue (maybe even the Bull/Leadbelcher sprue) get a warscroll, possibly as super-cheap characters or low-model count unit. 
• A special character on a Rhinox (dual kit with generic Tyrant)
• A new unit to integrate the Firebelly theme, probably magical infantry (if they were lazy, they could even use the same half of the generic ogor body sprue that guts/Belcher/bulls use with fire-themed weapon/mask options, that's one of the best old kits GW has) 
• A big, centrepiece wagon dual kit for a  Butcher's stew kitchen/Firebelly pyre-shrine (which gives us the plastic Butcher, and perhaps even a special character additional option)
• Stretch: New Gorgers 
• Larder terrain piece 
• As for endless spells: The Maw is obligatory, also something food-themed, and then something fire-y for the Firebellies. 

[The Rumour Thread]

 

2 hours ago, calcysimon said:

If those are the profiles of some future units or the changes to the old ones the future for std is bright

 

Javelins +3+3  -1  d3 as backup unit with low range

Old great weapons increased at 2 damage (chaos warriors, chosens, or new marauders berserkers style) 

+4+4, 2 attacks with 24' bows is not bad

And these too don't have mark option so one of the worst alliance traits is probably going to change

 

As someone painting up Chaos Warriors I really really hope this is the case, but I'm pessimistic. I think it's more likely that the new darkoath models will exhibit 'stat inflation', though their lack of armour acts as a gameplay balance for this. Which I think is sad, because I still have the Old World mindset of Chaos Warriors being elite champions that the marauding tribes aspire to be. 

[Age of Sigmar RPG]

This looks awesome, I can't wait to learn more. 

I have two questions, not sure the extent to which you can answer:

What's the philosophy when it comes to maps? Maps have been a contentious thing since the release of AoS. Some love the almost surrealist stuff prevalent in the early books, others prefer more traditionalist maps, so I'm curious what degree of territory you plan to map and in what style?

While I know you're focusing on Order factions, is there any mechanic for morality? Will the rules allow for a character who worships, say, Nagash, or other corruptions?