[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

So serious question: why are the Stormcast wizards so dang expensive? Why make a release focused on magic and then have none of your magic users worth a hoot? 

LAoGC and Incantor are both solid for their points, but not great.  And everything else is just bad.  I mean, 180 points for LA on foot is just perplexing, especially in relation to Reikenor at the same price.  He has maybe the worst command ability in the entire game and he's only barely better than a sequitor prime in melee.  Sure he has the suicide vest, but that's situational at best.  

This is not to say I'm complaining about the sacrosanct release as a whole.  There's lots to like and SC are stronger than anytime in the past two years, but...I just wish the wizards were worth their salt.  

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

22 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Not enough mortal wounds in the game to get past Ignax's Scales 

And even if there were, you just spent your entire games worth of mortals trying to kill a unit whose purpose is to draw fire away from the rest of your army.  Thanks!

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

2 hours ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

I'm not sure what distinction you are trying to make. Both warscrolls have the keyword KNIGHT OF SHROUDS.

If the battalion refers to KNIGHT OF SHROUDS then either can be used.  If it refers to Knight of Shrouds, then only the model that is named "Knight of Shrouds" can be used.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

Still have a few finishing touches, but here's that ETB Sequitor Prime conversion mostly painted.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

3 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

I agree libs and rets were bad before the tome, and the new units are probably just “normal.”

as for the cats, I do have a friend who is doing an army of them purely based on looks.

I've been thinking of doing a triple cavalry list for funsies. 

Fulminators + LCoD

Evos on Dracs + LAoD

Palladors + LAoGC (I'd use Aquilor but I don't own one)

Those three cavalry groups comes in at 1440 points, so you've got 560 left for battle line and whatever else suits your fancy.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

20 minutes ago, Requizen said:

If I was in charge, each release would have a couple cool Hero units that have strong Narrative ties, a couple units/monsters that are great for hobbyists (and perhaps a conversion fodder unit), and a couple units that competitive players will buy a few boxes of to stay on top of the meta. Something for everyone means profits on everything.

Isn't that what they did with the Sacrosanct chamber though?  Astreia and Aventis (and their generic counterparts) are fairly average rules wise, but I already bought Astreia for her looks and will do the same with Aventis down the road.  Then there are Evocalines, which I'll buy because wow are they cool.  And then Evocators and Sequitors because they're going to win me games.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

7 minutes ago, Requizen said:

I get what you're saying, but I'm not so much asking for Evos and Seqs to be bad, so much as not just better options. How boring is that? "Well Libs and Paladins aren't good, should we make them better?" "Nah, just nerf the Battalions they're in and add new models that are better versions."

You know when would have been a great time to fix the issues with Liberators and Paladins? When a new Battletome came out. 

I'm in your camp as well, it just seems to me that most of the discourse revolves around how OP seqs and evos are rather than the failure to address the fundamental problems with libs and pals.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

6 minutes ago, chord said:

Honestly I truly believe it was to make money.   Otherwise if they were not better so many existing stormcast players would have less incentive to purchase the new units

This is not why most people buy new miniatures.  I am a medium competitive player and easily 1/2 of my purchases are based on hobby.  I just bought Asteria.  She will rarely, if ever, grace my competitive lists.  I could have bought more Evocators, but I didn't, I bought the badass dragon cat riding mage.  

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

6 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

Honestly, Liberators and Paladins are their own problems. Neither have exactly been considered competitive choices for a long while (outside certain builds like Vanguard Wing). The new units just make their shortcoming far more apparent. The new units might very well be slightly too good. But that does not change that the older ones are not good enough.

 

Couldn't have put it better myself.  Sequitors didn't invalidate liberators and Evocators didn't invalidate Paladins competitively.  Liberators are so bad that most stormcast players choose to take two 160 point units for battleline.  What other army does this?  

Liberators are more expensive than Tzaangors.  TZAANGORS!  Which are also battle line and also part of an army that has loads of options and thus have no reason to be discounted (as opposed to say, Ardboys, which need a discount since they fill multiple roles due to limited IJ unit choice).

And paladins... They have a laundry list of problems.  I have no idea why there seems to be an  argument that "because existing units are bad, new ones should be bad too." 

Evocative and Sequitors are very much in line with recent battle line and elite infantry releases.  Grimghasts are amazingly strong, Thralls are strong battle line.  Blood Sisters put out the same level of damage as Evocators with an 8" move and frequently having the same armor save, a FNP save and more wounds per point.  I could go on, but it would be a long list. 

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

26 minutes ago, ianob said:

Heroes do not win games, units win games. Especially at 1k where you haven’t hit critical mass of units on the board, heroes are how you lose.

Id suggest dropping to the minimum number of heroes you can run in whatever 1k ruleset you’re using. Reikenor alone is a good bet. Add Cogs, because it is 100% needed for Nighthaunt to charge from the underworld, and spend the rest on more models in your units, or more units. Preferably fighty ones, you have enough points invested into filler (Chainrasps) already.

I agree with you but... Didn't you just win a tournament using Nagash? ?

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

7 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

Question on celestar ballistas:

Does it count as 3 models for holding objectives, or just 1?

Do you measure to shoot from the ballista or any of the three models?

1 model for all purposes, including measurement and objective holding.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

1 minute ago, Kugane said:

Do you mind if I steal the idea to make a similar conversion? I am planning to make a shattered shield and helmet resting against the sword to reinforce the gravesite idea. I have a derpy evocator who is standing with his hand in the air doing nothing lol.

Of course not!  While other people were griping about how Soul Wars was a cash grab and useless for competitive players I was coming up with ideas for simple conversions that wouldn't cost us a dime!

I also got my hands on a couple of the Getting started magazines with alternate knight incantor sculpts to use as my evocator stand ins.  Funny thing is the armor, vestments and iconography are identical to the evocators rather than the female knight incantor, so he looks like he belongs to the unit.  I'll mix and match with a regular kit of evocators so I don't have any repeat sculpts within a unit.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

2 hours ago, Galamund said:

I want to get some opinions and start a conversation about Realm Rules in the context of SCE. My groups seem to be adopting a "we might as well try them" approach and we use them more often than not. My question is simple: which Realm have you found to be the LEAST impactful on your games? What I mean is, what Realm do you think has the minimal impact on the game in terms of imbalanced or swing-causing Realm characteristics.  The idea being: if my opponent wishes to nominate a Realm, what one should I suggest so as to get at least a 50% of fighting in it?

As far as I'm concerned, it isn't Ulgu or Ghur, since reducing shooting to  18/12/6" is massive for Comet/Judicator/Longstrike using armies, and having the two beasts also to add huge variables to the game that are totally unpredictable. Some guys I play against have pretty wacky FW monsters. Shysh is also scary given how it helps Death armies disproportionately, and they're already really strong and I struggle with them a bit. That narrows it down to the remaining 6 (or 5 if you're as scared of Shysh as I am!)

What Realms have you guys had luck with SCE fighting in? Any cool tips or tricks about Realm rules in the context of running Stormcast?
 

Chamon and Aqshy are both really good for SCE.  Ignore rend in Chamon is busted for Stormcast.  

Ghyran is pretty neutral.  

I played in Shyish against death yesterday.  Barely eked out a win after my unit of 20 sequitors got bravery bombed into oblivion on turn 1.  I used my only command point to reroll a charge so I could burn an objective on my first turn which left me open to the devastating battleshock.  All the terrain was sinister, plus a death banner, plus two spells brought my sequitors to 2 bravery.  

I recovered because my opponent forgot I could ride the wind aetheric with my LAoGC and I snuck behind and burned another objective.  

Overall I think Shyish is not great for SCE, but it's not terrible either. 

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

1 minute ago, DanielFM said:

But that's you power-fantasy, not Warhammer canon ??

After I saw the sword stuck un the ground I understood. Maybe other item to lean on or a sword from a different race would have been less confusing, but that's being super nitpicky. Good job

I actually tried to have her resting her hand benevolently on a Grot but I couldn't find one that was the right height. ?

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

2 hours ago, Kugane said:

The way I see it is that the sword is stuck in the rock and would likely be something such as the grave of a fallen warrior, specially since the whole thing is sheeted. The prime is simply resting her hand on the sword while watching over her unit. I hardly consider this as her wielding it.

Also, when it comes to realism, smashing your sword in a rock isn't going to happen, you'll just shatter the blade, so I highly doubt she carried that thing there.

You nailed what I was going for.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

3 hours ago, robinlvalentine said:

Seems like a good time to ask about this, actually - as we're probably all going to end up converting extra greatmaces for our Sequitors, what are people's top tips for doing it? I've done a bit of converting in the past, but rarely stuff as fiddly as extending a weapon shaft. 

It really depends, but I usually try to get a pin through it if at all possible.  The lower portion wasn't going to bear any load and had a big contact patch so I just super glued it and it's quite solid.  

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

2 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

Nice conversion!

Thanks!  I really like the proportions on the female Stormcast models and didn't want this one to go to waste.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

I needed another greatmace Sequitor and really liked the pose of the ETB kit prime.  I clipped off the shield, replaced it with an unused Tempestor sword and glued some extensions onto the mace.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

22 minutes ago, DanielFM said:

Do people rate 5 Sequitors units as useful beyond camping objectives? With rerolls to hit and wound they should deal decent damage to small-midsized units.

I know 10 would be better, and 20 are preferred as a big hammer.  But I hate 20-strong SCE units (too horde for our super elite army) and I must field two units for Cleansing Phalanx with only 10 Sequitor models.

I had a unit of 5 sequitors lock up a unit of 30 plaguebearers for almost a whole game.  4+ rerolling saves against 0 rend is powerful.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

21 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

Sorry but i wanted to know if 2 balistas without an ordinator are worth there points. Or is it better to put something else in?

I think there may be a place for an MSU list that could benefit from this, I just haven't say down to hash one out yet.  Maybe celestial vindicators based since you can make any small melee unit effective by popping the command ability onto them.  I'll see if I can come up with something.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

15 minutes ago, Galamund said:

Right now there seems to be a lot of discussion on the utility of different shooting units, and good debate of their merits. Has anyone tried SCE lists without any shooting at all? I'm contemplating purely melee, counting on the raw strength of our hammers, swords and faith in the God-King. I also think that if we're going to be using Realm Rules, I don't want to depend on shooting at all since so many ruthlessly nerf shooting.

As far as I see it there are a variety of shooting units competing for our attention:
- Judicators with 24" Longbows or Judicators with 20 short-range Crossbow shots, which are the best and most important given the need to fill Battleline,
or:
- Castigators, either as small units or giant units, Raptors with Crossbows or Raptors with Longstrikes, which fulfill distinct tasks.

As far as I'm concerned, Castigators get booted from serious competition simply by virtue of not being Battleline. I played most of 1.0 with 2x5 Judicators with Skybolt/Shockbolt Bows and came to really lean on their ability to snipe and weaken units. Now, however, I'm finding that character sniping is a far more difficult process (given how many characters can get -1 or -2 to hit, easily). I'm doubtful that mass Crossbow fire (either from Judicators or Raptors) is useful, either, since they won't kill enough cheap screening models to be worth sacrificing 140 or 160pts of Stormcast dropping in that close to the enemy. The Longstrikes are alright but I am queasy at the thought of paying 180pts for 6 wounds of 4+ models that my opponent is going to nuke immediately. Moreso now that Anvils got nerfed, too.

So, my question is: SCE without shooting - is it possible? Do we fundamentally need something to harass or weaken that key enemy unit? Is it compulsory to have those rending long range bows to snipe at enemy giant monsters? Or can we do it without shooting support and beat the enemy to death in glorious melee?

Other than the extreme Soulstrike list I posted a few pages back, I've been leaning towards lists with minimal shooting.  I just don't think it's terribly necessary now that we can reliably get where we need to go via scions or command abilities.  I will be experimenting with running a single unit of Judicators to see if it's enough to hold the back field.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

14 minutes ago, Rod said:

but only empower? , can i cast +1 wound spell for each unit of evocators?

No you cannot.  Empower explicitly overrides the once per turn restriction on spells.  The +1 to wound spell does not.

[AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion]

5 hours ago, InSaint said:

I think I may be wrong but isn't this extremely risky?

For most battleplans,  you score VP at the end of your turn. Hence, the moment you leave it empty, smart opponents will tap it during their turn to score VP. Like how you could with Khinerai on the opponent's unattended objective.

So the golden rule is if your opponent still have units in reserve, never leave your controlled objective points unattended.

This strategy is effective against armies that don't have teleportation, deepstrike, or highly mobile flying units.  But even in the case they do, DoK have such astronomical offensive power that it is a valid game plan to try to win through annihilate your opponent and focus on VPs after the fact.  

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

16 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

What is the general consensus on named characters getting a trait for their mount? Can Vandus' Dracoth be "Keen-Clawed"?

Consensus has got nothing to do with it.  Rules is rules and there aren't any rules stopping you from giving a mount trait to a named character.

[AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion]

OK, it took some fiddling, but behold... The Heroic Heroes...Or some other suitably fabulous name.

Start the game with three CP,  a fourth in your first hero phase with a 50% chance at a fifth.  Then two 33% chances to get another one each time you spend one.