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Benkei

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    General Lumineth Realm Lords Rules Discussion

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted · Edited by Benkei

    3 hours ago, Athrawes said:

    No data, so personal attacks? 

    Cool.

    When you use anecdotal information to back up your unsupported claims, it must be taken as gospel. But when I use anecdotal experience to contest your claim, you imply its invalid and choose instead to mock me to discredit it.

    I don't play competitively, but I like to win as much as the next guy. However as soon as someone like you stars blathering on about broken this, or cheese that, I can no longer win at this game. If I win game, playing an army that you claim is broken, then I dint win, the autopilot-powerhouse-army won for me.

    And If I happen to lose with that army, I REALLY lose, cause' I lost with an army that was supposed to be unbeatable.

    You're ruining the game.

    Please.

    Stop.

    Where is YOUR data? I mean, he has data about you probably being bad (or not necessarily bad, just the other guy was better or there was some extreme bad/good luck involved) when you say you got destroyed against Slaangors

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted · Edited by Benkei

    4 hours ago, Lurynsar said:

    I do believe it’s hard to say. I should point out that in all 3 test games I did win. So having “more” certainly wouldn’t have been a detriment. 

    That said, I do believe I can offer some insight on the take away’s if we had old points. 

    My Hero choices are largely no different. The handful of points do not make or break the list. So having old costs for them wouldn’t have changed anything. 

    When it comes to units I believe that the Painbringers at 150 or 160 wouldn’t have mattered. They felt fine, and did exactly what I planned on them doing. The Twinsouls likely would have felt much better at 30 points less for the unit, however they were absolutely fantastic and while the price tag sucks for list building, the 2” melee range was worth the cost. I feel they’re a little too much, but they did work and were hard to shift. So I can’t say they’re overcosted, and might be “too good” at the older cost.

    However at 30 points less (60 overall) for the two units of Slickblades would have felt MUCH better. As I said the Blood Knights at 175 were just superior IMO. They did what I wanted my cavalry unit to do, they were pointed fairly and just overall seemed much better than Slickblades. They would have not felt OP at their older costs, and I truly believe they are overcosted right now. Blissbarb Archers weren’t bad, but also weren’t great. However that may be more how I played them, so further testing is 100% needed. That said though I feel they may have been much better (not sure they’d be too good though) at 180 instead of the 220. I feel a middle ground is a better place for them. The Unleash Hell has a lot of power behind it, and we could easily abuse it in a list if they were too cheap. 

    The Endless Spell (Wheels) was useful, and helped generate a lot of depravity in the game, and would be totally under costed at its old price. The new rules for Endless Spells make them something the opponent has to try and remove, or can really help your game plan and ruin your opponents. This is something I feel they got 100% right. Spending 100 points feels bad for it, but felt totally fair after playing it several times. They truly are VERY different to use now. 

    Summoning felt stupid powerful. Like game breaking powerful. However I’m not sure how much of that was accurate and how much was an inflated sense of points making me feel more powerful than it was. Summoning on average around 1500 points of models seems INSANE (averaged out 50 Daemonettes and 2 Keepers per game), but then again is it as insane as 1200 points? Maybe. It’s really hard to quantify. Daemonettes and Keepers did exactly what I needed them to, and were always a huge part of my victory, and it felt gross summoning more than 3/4s of my initial army in points into the game. But at the same time I would not have been happy I feel to spend 1500+ points on those models, so it’s certainly feels at this point that our summoning is amazing (MSU and what not going forward), but that shouldn’t be the reason they cost so many points. That’s backwards, and very confusing. So yeah summoning is super strong for us, but that’s because of the mechanic and not the points costs at all. The Daemonettes and Keepers are overpriced I feel based on my experiences so far. Great yes, but not 1500+ points great at all. That would not be a good army. 

    As to what I felt I was missing? Honestly the list felt very well rounded and comfortable. I’m hoping to bang out the next 7 games before next weekend and will report back. I will say however I cannot consider Gluttos at 475. He was actually too good at 400, and is probably balanced at 475, but because everything else is so costly I don’t believe he’s a good investment overall. Likewise a lot of “support” pieces like the Contorted Epitome, and even Seekers would feel really solid in my lists, but I cannot find a place to cut them and to keep the efficiency we need to make sure summoning goes off. Even if I were to change out both units of Slickblades and the Blissbarbs I’d need to replace them with more combat oriented units that spread easy mortals or damage across the board. Like some mixture of Hellstriders and Blissbarb Seekers. Because summoning is so strong (and honestly the only thing that’s going to keep up remotely viable at this time IMO) we need the things to generate depravity, and while the “support” style units can do it; they give up too much of the battle line and the strengths we do have to be in the list at their costs. I want support pieces to be cheap, or at least cheaper. Even if that means toning them down somewhere. I just cannot justify support right now with points being so tight. 

    Hopefully that gives a little insight into where my mind is at with the list and the faction. I have games against Orruks, Daughters, Lumineth and likely more Soulblight coming in the next few days. So hopefully I can give more context to what I'm seeing early, and as others get games in we can put our data together and see where we can shine, and what’s not just a knee-****** reaction from players, and needs something done about it. 

    Thanks for the feedback. This echoes my worries mostly: I'm ok with certain things going up in points (mainly Eternal Spells, a modest increase to KoS and Glutos) and with the LoP tax to get Myrm/Symbs as battleline, but there are some units you just can't include in your lists now, and they happen to be really iconic units too (KoS, Daemonettes, Epitome). I honestly don't give a damn about playing a high competitive army, but I do want to be able to play my amazing miniatures I spent time building and painting, and just a tone down of the worst price hikes would do that

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted · Edited by Benkei

    So now list building is basically "don't ever take anything whose points were adjusted" with a bit of "don't take Hedonites units" sprinkled on top

     

    And 3 days ago I was uber excited at running a kitted up KoS with the Epitome. I mostly like all the 3.0 changes did, but I can't use most of them due to the way our points changed because I can't build a list to makes good use of Monsters/Heroes/Endless Spells with our new battleline tax and the massive hikes for KoS and Epitome. I can handle the rest, but KoS and Epitome (and probably Daemonettes/Archers) are just too much 

    • Thanks 1

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Lurynsar said:

    So I’ve been able to play 3 games as Hedonites so far with the new rules, and the new points (perks to owning a store. I play games all the time)

    My list is as follows 

      Reveal hidden contents

     

    Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Lurid Haze (Invaders Host)

     

    Battle Regiment 

    Commander / Sub-Commanders

    Lord of Pain

    -General

    —Feverish Anticipation (Command Trait)

    —Oil of Exultation (Artefact)

    Shardspeaker 150

    -General

    —Dark Delusions (Spell)

    Sigvald, the Magnificent 265 

    -General

    Troops

    10 Symbaresh Twinsouls 370

    5 Myrmidesh Painbringers 160

    5 Myrmidesh Painbringers 160

    5 Slickblade Seekers 230

    5 Slickblade Seekers 230

     

    No Battalion

    11 Blissbarb Archers 180

     

    Endless Spells

    Wheels of Excruciation 100

    2000 Points

     

     

     

    I won’t do full battle reports, as I don’t have 100% of the details written down, but I’m planning to document my experiences and tournaments in 3rd so those may come. Just going to note the footnotes and what I learnt. 

    My first game was against Soulblight using several Vampire Heroes in the Vyrkos Dynasty and then 40 Deadwalkers, 2x20 Skeletons, 10 Dire Wolves, 20 Grave Guard, a Corpse Cart and an endless spell. 

    Second game was also against a Soulblight army but using the named Vampire on Dragon, another normal Vampire Lord on Dragon, 5 units of Blood Knights and a unit of Vargheists. 

    Third game was against Kharadron Overlords. Using multiple ships, Thunderers, some ballon boys. The standard affair really. 

    So initial thoughts that were positive

    1) 10 Twinsouls is a lot of points, and even more when protecting/escorting a Shardspeaker. But they are disgusting. With 2” melee range I had no troubles bringing them to bear time and time again and they did WORK. Honestly they might be my MVPs in every game. They’re hard to kill, kill well and when sitting with a Shardspeaker just become amazing. However against more ranged savvy opponents the lack of protection for the Shardspeaker will suck. 

    2) Depravity Points are stupid powerful. Like really powerful. MSU is a thing and I was able to generate 12 points at least 3 times in each game to bring in some serious reinforcements. And while a Keeper is hands down an amazing choice, 30 Daemonettes helped out a ton too. I foresee those being my go to’s when summoning, and relying on 20 Daemonettes if I cannot reach 12. 

    3) Endless Spells are fun. Activating each Hero phase made them super useful, and a true aspect of the game. I will 100% be trying these more and the Wheels did a lot of work. So I was very happy with them. 

    4) Painbringers may be one of the best roadblocks in the game. They just wouldn’t die. They took shots, they took charges, they even took a Zombie Dragon to the face. They just don’t like dying at all. They’re not doing much (no shocker there). But to control an objective or area; they’re insanely solid. 

    5) Blissbarb Archers do indeed love Unleash Hell. Sitting in the mid backfield controlling an objective made the enemy have to come to them and it was pretty cool. Though to be honest they were the second weakest part of the list (see below). 

    6) My list (and I suspect Slaanesh as a whole) are amazing with the single drop Battalion. My entire list was 2 Drops (my Sylvaneth are 6 and use the same Battlaion) so I went first every game with ease. I like it, a lot.

    now onto the negatives. 

    1) I hate that heroes didn’t get the “40K” Look Out Sir rules. -1 is nothing for a good ranged unit/army to deal with especially with the caps. These make heroes like the Shardspeaker still easy to pick out. I don’t like it. It’s a shame as they have a fair, solid rule in their other flagship game and they didn’t use it. 

    2) Slickblades are way too many points. They did some work, they were even good at times. But playing against Blood Knights at 175 for 5 was just so polarizing. They’re everything I want and they’re cheaper. It’s just a true shame as the models are stunning. Unless playtests change my mind they’ll be replaced with Blissbarb Seekers or even Hellstriders going forward. I also feel Twinsouls were a little too costly, but they made up for it. I don’t think 160 for Painbringers was bad at all. They did what I wanted them to for a “fair” price.

    3) A lack of generic or “cheap” monsters SUCK. While Zombie Dragons weren’t cheap the monster abilities were amazing. I’m also testing my Sylvaneth and Treelords at 190 with those rules are amazing. Our Monsters went up greatly in points, and even summoning them in doesn’t make up for it. We need a nice 200-250 point giant Slaangor or something to give us access to these lovely new rules and allow us to play them. We are losing out, they’re really good. 

    4) Relying on summoning for board control is good in theory, and bad in practice. While I’ve been able to take the board with 1 or 2 units of 20/30 Daemonettes; it’s going to be all to easy to be unable to do that on a crucial turn and fall flat quick. Board Control is a super important element, and we lack it. It sucks. 

    All in all I think we are okay. I know the knee ****** reaction is we are trash tier, and bad. We aren’t. I don’t think we will be meta toppers, or anything. But get some games in and you’ll see it’s not all doom and gloom. That said some points costs are awful and utterly shameful, and honestly looking at other books Allegiance Subfactions, artefacts and Command Abilities makes me weep. We have so little in the way of options, and even less in the way of good options. I don’t see the point in going after extra Enchantments for the most part for us at all. Not worth the either high price for Heroes or the poor, cheaper choices. But that’s just me. 

    As to what I’d change? My first thought is swap out Sigvald for Dexcessa with a change in Endless Spells for points. I think Sigvald is fine, good even. But I truly think Dexcessa is a beast with the new hero abilities. And I am excited to get her on the table (and likely regret not having Sigvald haha)

    and the other change would be as I said before, Slickblades for some mixture of Blissbarb Seekers and/or Hellstriders. Hellstriders seem solid at their points, and Blissbarb Seekers could give me a ranged element allowing me to drop the Blissbarb Archers (my second worst unit I felt) and maintain some shooting options. However I will need to test a combination of them all to see where I stand.

    So in my experience and opinion the sky isn’t falling, and we will be okay. We just need to hope for a future adjustment to a few units points wise (and a whole new Warscroll for those damned Slaangors) and maybe a Monster or two in a playable point cost and we really could be up there with the best. Time will tell, but I do implore you to try out some games. 

    Even while I like the positive outlook, the fact that you didn't play any of the units that got the big price hikes (because they are nigh unplayable now) proves we are not okay. The huge point increase to Daemonettes and KoS (and to the Epitome) means they are relegated to summons now and we are encouraged to buy mortals to fill the battleline and I can't help but wonder if mortal kits didn't sell as well as they wanted (because, you know, dull rules) and they already sold as many KoS kits as they wanted. 

    • Like 2

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted · Edited by Benkei

    16 hours ago, Jaskier said:

    This list is designed to be extremely fast and thus reactive, hence the 9 drops to try and play for second turn (as whoever finishes deploying first must go first) but it has the speed 

    It seems whoever finishes deploying first takes Priority, choosing who goes first and who goes second 

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted · Edited by Benkei

    So we need our summoning just to be even, while the rest of allegiance abilities for other factions are actual advantages that usually are there since the start of the game and not gatekeeped by our "you are fragile so hit hard, but don't actually kill stuff because that's bad for you" 

    Other factions can leverage their allegiance abilities to actually get an advantage, but we have to actually exploit ours just to be even.

    Seems like good design. Again. 

    General Lumineth Realm Lords Rules Discussion

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted · Edited by Benkei

    Are you for real when you say of those 1300 points Teclis will only contribute 4-5 MW a round? This kind of disingenuous "arguments" are the reason people dont like LMR: "hey, let me add a 600 points model here and do the math with it only adding 5 MWs a round. Wow, Sentinels are sure mediocre when you add 600 points of practical dead weight to their cost and you dont take any buff into account!!"

    AoS 3 New Rules Discussion

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted

    6 hours ago, TheMuphinMan said:

    So I'm hoping so, but in match play rules it say that you have to pay additional points to reinforce units right? Because if not, I feel like everyone is just going to reinforce their highest point units because for example why get more acolytes when you could get more stormfiends for a reinforcement point?

    Reinforcement onky changes the maximum amount of miniatures in the unit, you atill have to pay for them

    AoS 3 New Rules Discussion

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted

    So if you pick a spell lore enhancement all the wizards in your force can pick one spell from that lore. Does that mean all my Slaanesh wizards can pick spells from the Greater Demons lore if I choose it or does it mean only my Greater Demons, Demons or Mortals (depending on the lore I choose) will benefit from the enhancement while other armies' wizards all get to benefit from it? 

    The Rumour Thread

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted

    17 hours ago, Yoid said:

    I get it. There gonna be outdated rules in some armies for a while until battletomes fix them. Meanwhile try to roar into the objective of your catapult with your harvester to avoid the +1 save.

    It amazes me how many people didn't read how Roar works. It prevents command abilities on the following COMBAT phase, so no preventing +1 saves for shooting

    • Like 1

    AoS 3 New Rules Discussion

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted · Edited by Benkei

    There is very little counterplay as evidenced by the corner cases in your examples, and why the hell have the melee units to go through all the hoops on top of having to close the distance and risking retaliation on their own combat phase while shooting units already dominating the meta just don't care and shoot all day long while not giving a ****** about having to MSU or coherence? 

    It would be all fine and dandy if shooting units were substantially more expensive than melee units, but they aren't. 

    • Like 3

    AoS 3 New Rules Discussion

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted · Edited by Benkei

    6 hours ago, Fred1245 said:

    I'm going to say it here now:

    I think stand and shoot is nowhere near as strong as the d6 flee.

    Unleash hell is very showy. Ooh Such shoots, much Damages! Pretty colors! But ultimately it's an anemic last stand for the majority of archer models. You'll get some extra casualties you wouldn't have in AoS2, but end up still trapped in combat and still probably being killed the majority of the time.

    The D6 flee is game deciding. I guarantee good players will win at least 1 game per event with this ability alone.

    I've seen this opinion about UH a couple of times in the forums already and I wonder why some people can't understand. UH lets you stand and shoot at units charging YOUR SCREENS; your shooting unit won't be engaged after UH most of the time. It would be a lot more palatable if it was old Warhammer's Stand and Shoot, at the moment it seems basically "pay 1cp to shoot twice this round" 

    Also the problem is mostly the already OP shooting units that get even better with UH and not so much UH itself

    • Like 2

    AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

    in Hedonites of Slaanesh

    Posted

    We have no priests; we have ONE caster with casting bonuses (talking about our book, no S2D). I absolutely fail to see how these rules changes benefit Hedonites more than several other factions that are not in need of help. 

    And regardless of power level I'm still baffled at the absolute lack of fluff for our book, both in new lore or in the warscrolls (usually defaulting to "6s to wound = MW") in what   seems to be unwillingness to come up with fluffy interesting rules -see comet landing Annihilators- or just a rushed product. I would love to field Myrmidons and feel like they are a distinct unit and not just worse Slick blades, f. E. 

    The Rumour Thread

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted · Edited by Benkei

    1 hour ago, Scurvydog said:

    I can already see it.

    Archaon: This is my finest hour! Also ROAR you cant use command abilities!

    Everybody else:

    Steam-værksted::Guess I'll Die

    Can still use the Hero phase ones and the heroic abilities tho

    General Lumineth Realm Lords Rules Discussion

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted · Edited by Benkei

    17 hours ago, Ragest said:

    Talking about money is the same as talking about points. So that will be more fair if I stop Archaon with Teclis? Will be more fair if I Autolose vs Gargants and Archaon lists? We are good letting unbeteable lists being on rampage around the game becasue you have invested some points and you want that points to be unstoppable?

    If you want Lumineth lists to lose without being capable of doing anything just say it, and don't hide your desires.

    Serious lol of a post. Honestly, most "arguments" from LRL players in this thread are at worst absurd and at best laughable, from this absolute idiocy right here to hyperbolic statements like "you just want LRL to lose without being able to do anything" to "some loose sense of fairness in a competitive game" (I guess this guy is ok with the game not being fair as long as he is playing the unfair stuff) nonsense. Surely if there is nothing wrong with the army the players should be able to use logical and reasonable arguments? 

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