Ahriman
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Posts posted by Ahriman
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6 hours ago, W1tchhunter said:
*snip*
Rat Swarms (55)
Rat Swarms (55)
Cool list!
What's the thoughts behind the Rat Swarms? I really wanted them to get a rules revamp in the new book, to add another unit type to my lists - but at the moment they don't feel like they do anything that's not done by Giant Rats.
I was hoping they'd get some rule like "enemy units cannot end a normal move within 6" of this model", something to represent a real swarm and give some area control.
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On 10/18/2022 at 9:07 PM, W1tchhunter said:
Is there any good moulder lists kicking about? Planning my next batch buy and definitely want something with at least 3 hell pit abominations
I have a list on the app but I know its terrible.
I don't know about good, but this is the Moulder list I've made with the new book - fewer Hell Pit Abominations and Giant Rats than the last book allowed, but the Ogors are now so much better.
Master Moulder (General), Foulhide and Moulder Supreme
Master Moulder, Rabid Crown
Master Moulder
3 x 4 Rat Ogors (Bounty Hunters)
6 x 6 Giant Rats
Hell Pit Abomination, with Back-up Organs
Hell Pit Abomination, with Toughed Sinews
(Warlord Detachment)
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Another vote here for Nick Horth and the Silver Shard - incredible adventure novel, adorable characters and gave the Realms the best sense of coming alive and being 'real' that I've seen so far.
Though C L Werner's Death stuff, Hink's Gotrek books, and everything by Reynolds (especially Dark Harvest) are all fantastic too.
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3 ways to play is genius from my point of view.
Gives clear language you can use with your opponent about what you intend to get out of a potential game.
I'm not sure it matters which is more popular, and you're spot on with the fact that Matched is easier to talk about online (and in person), so is the most visible.
I, for example, play largely narrative, and have a whole story and goal for my Stormcast Path to Glory that I'm working through - but generally no one cares so I share it with myself and those I know rather than online.
For places like gaming clubs they typical host games of people who didn't know each other prior to going there, so again the path of least resistance to get a game in is to use Matched play so that tends to be what you see there.
Which I think is awesome, each is a different tool to use in the best situation so people can enjoy playing toy soldiers.
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Here's hoping the AoS output from Black Library picks up substantially soon. When they get it right it can be so so good.
My current top 3:
1. Silver Shard: fantastic human level view of the Realms, where the fantastical blends with their normal lives
2. The Eight Lamentations: again, human level view of the worlds but larger stakes than Silver Shard. Great characters
3. The Gotrek series. While he's lost some of his key characteristic by not fulfilling his death oath, and the lack of Felix is sad, I think he's the perfect character to walk the 8 Realms and highlight the fantastic absurdity of it all. I also love his new companions, and the Stormcast Eternal in Ghoul and Gitslayer has a fascinating arc, and fleshes them out nicely.
Honourable mentions to Dominion, Shadespire, Dark Harvest and Lady of Sorrows, and I've heard good things about Stormvault but haven't read it yet.
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3 minutes ago, LeonBox said:
But if she has another attack profile, she should be allowed to attack, no? Wounds and mortal wounds are negated, but if she chose the Hell Pit as the target for her next melee attack, it seems to me she should get her attacks.
Even though everyone I've ever met removes models after each individual attack has been rolled, I believe you're meant to hold off applying the damage until all attacks have rolled hits, wounds, and saves.
So then the damage pool would kill the Hell Pit Abomination, it would come back, and remaining damage is lost.
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And here is my list for those that are interested:
Army Name: The Denizens of Hell Pit
Army Faction: Skaven
Battlepack: Pitched Battles
Points Limit: 2000 pts
General: Master Moulder
Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
Triumph: Inspired
Units
7 x Giant Rats
Battlefield Role: Battleline
Points Cost: 40 pts (280 pts)
Core Battalions
Warlord
Magnificent Bonus: Artefacts of Power
Master Moulder (General)
Battalion Slot Filled: Commander
Battlefield Role: Leader
Command Traits: Hordemaster
Artefacts of Power: Amulet of Destiny
Points Cost: 95 pts
Master Moulder
Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander
Battlefield Role: Leader
Artefacts of Power: Rabid Crown
Points Cost: 95 pts
Master Moulder
Battalion Slot Filled: Sub-commander
Battlefield Role: Leader
Points Cost: 95 pts
Giant Rats
Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
Battlefield Role: Battleline
Points Cost: 40 pts
Hunters of the Heartlands
Rat Ogors
Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
Battlefield Role: Battleline
Reinforced: Twice
Clans Moulder Mutations: Toughened Sinews
Points Cost: 285 pts
Rat Ogors
Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
Battlefield Role: Battleline
Reinforced: Once
Clans Moulder Mutations: Insanely Rabid
Points Cost: 190 pts
Rat Ogors
Battalion Slot Filled: Troops
Battlefield Role: Battleline
Reinforced: Once
Points Cost: 190 pts
Alpha-Beast Pack
Hell Pit Abomination
Battalion Slot Filled: Monster
Battlefield Role: Behemoth
Clans Moulder Mutations: Never-never Die-die
Points Cost: 240 pts
Hell Pit Abomination
Battalion Slot Filled: Monster
Battlefield Role: Behemoth
Points Cost: 240 pts
Hell Pit Abomination
Battalion Slot Filled: Monster
Battlefield Role: Behemoth
Points Cost: 240 pts
Total Points: 1990 pts
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So deadline has now been and gone, and I managed to take a mostly fully painted army to a tournament the weekend just gone.
Managed to get my Brood Horror model painted up in a single day for the event!
The TO kindly let me use it as a Hell Pit Abomination, though I think I'll need to source a different model for that in the future (current thoughts are the new Sludgeraker from the Kruelboyz...).
Here's the shot of the whole army as it currently stands:
Didn't manage to squeeze a Best Army nomination again this time, and I think I'm having to face the fact that the army just doesn't leap off the table (as well as some key models not looking good enough quality yet, such as the regular HPA, and the skin on the older Rat Ogors).
The main offender I believe is their bases, which while being a dark green just look black when in an event hall.
As such I'm going to try out a load of different colours for the stone, and even try a different rim colour than my beloved black, to see if that helps lift them a tad.
Will report back with my findings!
Here are some close ups of the army:
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As for the tournament itself:
I'm very much not a competitive player by nature, but I did enjoy diving quite deep into the strategy this weekend.
Was a 40 player event, with a lot of tough lists.
I played:
- Disciples of Tzeentch (Draw)
- Stormcast Eternals (Win)
- Kharadron Overlords (Loss)
- Daemons of Nurgle (Loss)
- Gloomspite Gitz (Win)
So going 2/1/2 which I'm really pleased with, exactly middle of the road and came 20th out of 38.
My Giant Rats were critical in me capturing objectives and scoring Battle Tactics.
My Hell Pit Abominations almost always died but they were a great distraction and hurt the enemy hard whenever they got the chance.
My Warlord Throt the Unclean survived in most of the games, and was able to resummon units on a 4+ far more often than I was expecting.
And I love the way Rat Ogors play now with the BR: Kragnos mutation table - my 6 Rat strong unit with Toughened Sinews (6W, 4+ Sv) didn't get wiped out in a single game, and the unit with Insanely Rabid (6 attacks) was really able to tear units apart.
So, overall, the army is never going to take the competitive scene by storm, but I absolutely love how it plays. All games were really close, so it can definitely hold its own with some clever play (cleverer than me, I made sooo many tactical mistakes). Can't wait to play some more.
If you actually read all that, I thank and commend you for your time and patience!
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And a quick update this time as my deadline draws ever closer!
Its not 100% finished but its most of the way there now, and I'll have to turn my attentions to some other models (including a 3rd Hell Pit Abomination made from a Brood Horror) to get them Battle Ready.
And pictured with some friends:
Now, onto the next monster...
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Most of the bulk of the painting has been done on my new Hell Pit Abomination now, just some details and different tones of scales to pick out.
Also managed to quickly do the rocks for my Gnawholes, then I'm going to try and fill the center with some greenish cotton wool to represent the cloud smoked tunnels.
Just another Hell Pit Abomination to paint, and two more Rat Ogors to build and paint, and I'll be ready for my tournament in just over a week's time!!!
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I find it hard to get all 6 Rat Ogors into combat, so making the 6 man unit Insanely Rabid largely just gives me ablative wounds until the first one dies, then they get a lot more work done.
I am loving a 6 Rat Ogor unit with Toughened Sinews however. They take sooo much punishment before they drop, and still put out solid damage with the Rabid Crown nearby.
Love the list as you have it right now though, those Giant Rats will be such a nuisance for your frenemy
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A small update with some greenstuff work on my next Hell Pit Abomination.
Filled in the gaping hole in the neck, and added some surgical staples across a few cuts.
Hoping to get some solid colours on his this weekend, ready for my first tournament taking place next month!!!
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11 hours ago, Nasrod said:
Played The Trap against Kharadaron Overlords today.
They deployed in the corner and popped Spell in a Bottle Soulsnare Shackles.
I'm Soulblight Gravelords.
Our Path to Glory campaign officially starts in August and I think I went from being fantastically excited to dropping out of it before it even starts.
The idea of PtG is awesome but tying win conditions to killing things exclusively amd eschewing the objective based gameplay is such a bad idea...
You can play any type of mission you like for Path to Glory though, so it’s a pretty easy fix to stick with the Matched Play mission, or objective based Narrative one’s, and avoid the kill point missions if you don’t find them fun.
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3 hours ago, BeerBoar said:
Hi everyone! Devastated Clans Moulder player here (I went kinda crazy during the first wave of Covid and collected and painted 3 waves of 40 giant rats...yes, I have 120 hahaha).
So anyone think they are worth playing in min size sets of 6 for 40 points?
Very much so in my view - though with the caveat that I don't play in a particularly competitive environment.
For me they're the thing that won me games in 2nd Ed, and now I just have more units of them.
They're 40pts that help score objectives turn 1, without risking anything valuable in my army.
One or two units of them in front of each of my Rat Ogor squads means they screen enemies trying to charge me and help to make sure I can pick my fights.
And with shooting units they were always great at tying up a unit of archers so they couldn't shoot at anything important, and now that goes for stopping Unleash Hell as well.
They never kill anything, but its a waste of time my opponent trying to kill them (I have 8 units of 6 now), and if they don't kill them they'll be grabbing objectives all game and scoring Hold the Line at the end.
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I played two Path to Glory campaign games with my Stormcast Eternal's last week, both against a friend's Khorne Bloodbound.
Really enjoyable. The missions really helped tell a story, and we decided on attacker/defender by what fit best with our army's character and what had happened in the previous game. Felt much more 'real' than the big 2k Matched Play game we played afterwards - which was just tactics with no lore consideration.
Missions played were The Trap and Watchtower.
Watchtower was really fun, turning what seemed like an easy win turn one for myself (as the attacker) into a tense duel to try and be the one to get into the tower before the other as his reinforcements came in.
The Trap was a little more problematic, with the way it was scored meaning I (the defender) had autowon by the end of turn 2, as all my stuff was still alive. I dunno if the fix is to give the attackers 3 points per unit killed, or to not let the defender score in round 1, but it was fun chasing kills for renown points regardless.
Another thought is you really should play the mission as its written. We set up a nice board then rolled for the mission. The Trap lets the attacker set up the terrain, which would have meant he could have been far more aggressive and given me nowhere to anchor my flanks. So maybe we were the problem rather than the scoring.
Postgame stuff is fun! I spent a little glory and escaped with no deaths, but one bad roll could completely nerf an elite unit's effectiveness. I also didn't claim any new territory yet, but was able to grow my starting army from 600pts to nearly 1kpts, which is quicker than i was expecting.
Can't wait for more, and to see what battletomes bring.
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23 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:
Wouldn’t this model look amazing?.
Exactly my thoughts when I saw this beasty get announced (and its not just because i'm bitter that they have nicer things-catchers than us!).
I recently built my Brood Horror model to count as my third Hell Pit Abomination, but I will likely grab this and smash is together with the HPA kit to make it a bit more bespoke.
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Just played a 2k game with my Clans Moulder vs Lumineth Realmlords.
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My list was:
3 x Master Moulder (rabid crown, new artefact that gives my general a 5+ ward, and hordemaster trait)
1 x 6 Rat Ogors, with Toughened Sinews (6 wounds, 4+ save)
4 Rat Ogors, with Insanely Rabid (6 attacks, reroll charges)
4 Rat Ogors
8 x 6 Giant Rats
3 x Hell Pit Abominations, one with Prized Creation, another with Accelerated Regeneration (heal D3 *every* hero phase)
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Far from a competitive game, but I looove units of 6 Rat Ogors with 6 wounds each. They took the brunt of a unit of Wardens and Bladelords attacking them, and still had enough models left to wipe them out in return.
Having 8 units of Giant Rats is incredible, using them to block off routes to objectives, switch off Unleash Hell to protect my other units, and redeploying (not the CA) quickly to be able to put bodies on objectives. Stars of the show.
And I've never squeezed 3 HPAs into a list before. Meant I could afford to be really reckless with them, and was always able to get a devastating round of attacks with them each turn.
Can't wait to play some more and really get to grips with optimising the new command abilities, and which Battle Tactics and Grand Strategies to choose
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Just played a 2k game with my Clans Moulder vs Lumineth Realmlords.
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My list was:
3 x Master Moulder (rabid crown, new artefact that gives my general a 5+ ward, and hordemaster trait)
1 x 6 Rat Ogors, with Toughened Sinews (6 wounds, 4+ save)
4 Rat Ogors, with Insanely Rabid (6 attacks, reroll charges)
4 Rat Ogors
8 x 6 Giant Rats
3 x Hell Pit Abominations, one with Prized Creation, another with Accelerated Regeneration (heal D3 *every* hero phase)
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Far from a competitive game, but I looove units of 6 Rat Ogors with 6 wounds each. They took the brunt of a unit of Wardens and Bladelords attacking them, and still had enough models left to wipe them out in return.
Having 8 units of Giant Rats is incredible, using them to block off routes to objectives, switch off Unleash Hell to protect my other units, and redeploying (not the CA) quickly to be able to put bodies on objectives. Stars of the show.
And I've never squeezed 3 HPAs into a list before. Meant I could afford to be really reckless with them, and was always able to get a devastating round of attacks with them each turn.
Can't wait to play some more and really get to grips with optimising the new command abilities, and which Battle Tactics and Grand Strategies to choose.
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1 minute ago, yukishiro1 said:
Yes and no. Some battletomes have that, some don't - e.g. the new LRL tome doesn't, unless I missed it somewhere.
But even for the ones that do...the problem is they keep coming out with new ones. My Cities army (run as Tempest's Eye) is painted primarily in bronze and purple because I think it looks great. As far as I know - and again, I don't actually because I've never paid any attention to it - that doesn't match any of the cities they have yet come up with. But that number has increased greatly even since the last tome came out - Broken Realms added at least three, maybe four if there's one I'm forgetting? What happens when they add a new army that happens to be painted in bronze and purple? Does my army become invalid overnight unless I "ask permission" of my opponent, because my current army relies on pistoliers being battleline due to Tempest's Eye and the new rules I am now forced to use don't have that? I've spent dozens, probably hundreds of hours painting this army. Are you really telling me that the "immersion" of a tiny fraction of the player the base who would actually realize should mean I can't play any more without "seeking permission" unless I repaint my army? Do I have to try to argue with people trying to disqualify my army by saying it was painted before the new city came out, and/or that the shade of purple I used is subtly different enough that I'm allowed to still play my army? Why should anyone have to be put in that position?
I don't see how the gain there possibly outweighs the loss.
Really great point, and with the game ever in flux not one I have an answer too that I'm comfortable with.
I suppose its a situation that's covered by the "ask permission" caveat as you say. But I live in a world where I can't fathom a situation where somebody would say no. But that may just be a luxury I am blessed with that isn't universal.
In a 'casual' game, they either say yes, or they say no at which point there are likely to be better opponents out there.
In a competitive tournament setting, the points raised earlier about it being a complex game, and the colour of your models hardly affecting that tactical decision making come into effect, so people would have to be rather braisen to say that you couldn't play by the rules you wanted. And its something you could ask a TO in advance to cover you as well.
So I can't see it ever being a real issue, but again that may well be a luxury I hold.
As such the rule is simply an ideal GW wishes to reach one day. I definitely don't think they maliciously want to put people in an awkward situation.
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2 hours ago, yukishiro1 said:
[Snip]
If you're after testimonials I can hold my hands up as an example. Though I would also say I've dived into the lore more than most.
I think most people could name 4 Stormhosts by colour, and I could name a lot more.
I know most if not all the skyports, and I think most could identify Barak Narr and Zilfin?
I could label the Cities of Sigmar pretty confidently.
But to me that's besides the point, as GW doesn't want to bring in this kind of rule 40years later when the game is more established, because that will put even more people in an awkward position that it is right now if they're using the 'wrong rules' for their colours.
(I honestly have no good answer for those who have found themselves suddenly given faction rules they don't like, it really is a poor situation to be in with no great answers).
The point about it stifling creativity - I may be misremembering but don't the Battletomes generally say "if your colours don't match a pre-existing colour scheme, pick the sub-faction that you think fits them the most". If not, they certainly do for Warhammer 40,000, and I imagine the same principles apply (though I understand we don't have that in writing).
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Its incredible how venomous this subject has become here, and its made it a tad intimidating to jump into the coversation for one side or the other, but here goes!
For me two main issues keep being brought up:
- the disbelief that someone would be genuinely confused by the paint colour on the plastic miniatures before them, to the point it would create tactical mistakes
- and the question of whether any number of people actually know what the different sub-faction schemes are.
To me, the conflict comes from the arguments being made by differing kinds of players (though I don't want to put words in people's mouths, so apologies in advance).
If you're playing the hobby largely for the test of wit that is the game, and also with an interest in the painting side of the hobby, to you the ruling seems like an infringement on your ability to try out different rules and discover what works best, while also painting your models in a way you enjoy (colour choose, difficulty of that scheme, personal meaning, ect).
On the other side of the argument (which for disclosure, is where I sit), are those who are invested in the lore of these worlds, and how that comes to life on the tabletop. To them, this ruling means they can put their toy models on the table opposite a Hag Narr force, and think oooh this should be different to that awesome game against the Kailebron temple I played last week, should be fun!
Its can be a shame to discover that every game against X faction turns out the same, because everyone's using the same faction trait (Ossiarchs had this problem when they first came out as Petrifex Elite was the clear winner for rules).
These FAQs are to cover Matched, Narrative and Open play - and as such they want to encourage you using the correct rules for the correct faction.
The reason whhhyyy leads me on to the second point I noticed like I said above - few people know what the sub-factions are.
Some in this thread have claimed the reason they want to enforce this rule is so that you have to purchase multiple Stormcast armies like people own mulitple marine armies (which I think is a ludicrous assessment btw).
But I believe the reason people own mulitple marine armies, is because they think that, for example, "Salamanders are awesome, but Black Templars are just insaane, and I do also love the stoicism of the Ultramarines. I'll do an army of each as I just can't choose". And these opinions will be based on a mix of rules, lore and colour schemes.
And I bet that GW would looooove for the vast majority of people to be able to go through a similiar thought process for AoS armies. They know that the lore of their worlds is what makes them the biggest player in this market, and they want people to be invested in the stories and characters of the Mortal Realms in the same way people are invested in 40k.
So, in short (my god that was a wordy post, sorry!) - yes they want to make more money, but they'll want it to be through your investment in the worlds they've created.
They *want* you to be able to name the sub-factions and their colours.
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I will be unlikely to play many games of 3rd that aren't Path to Glory ones honestly - aside from everything else it has the more interesting missions so far!
The downsides are definitely that, especially when compares to 40k's Crusade, there is little to no unit and character progression, and what there isn't terribly exciting. 40k has D6 skill tables for different unit types, as well as characterful relics that you can earn, and its a shame that's missing.
But that is tempered by the fact you have a settlement to grow, which i think is really evocative and ties in nicely with the new idea of Dawnbringer Crusades. And the quest system, which seems like a nice addition in the Core Book, and I'm hoping they really go crazy with in the Battletomes.
I'm also praying for Path to Glory supplements sent within the different Realms - giving us our Realm Rules back and maybe unique territories, quests and traits you can earn in each one.
Oh, and I adore how brutal the casualty system is, straight up losing models from squads feels much more visceral than the squad gaining a debuff like in Crusade.
Already got plans for a Stormcast Dawnbringer Crusade entourage and my Moulder expanding from the Varanspire into Ghur.
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7 minutes ago, Verminlord said:
I love running pure moulder too. All they've ever been good for is screening / bodies on an objective, but If GW wanted to break their warscroll in order to support that use, why not 5 min? See my last post for the length difference. It's not the end of the world or anything; I think skaven got away pretty well off with their changes. Some of them are just leaving me scratching my head.
When I run them, I will be arcane bolting as many min size giant rat units as I can to get them to 5.
I completely blanked on that meaning they're 1 model away from the more lenient coherency rules, yeah that is a tad annoying!
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As someone who runs Giant Rats in my Moulder force purely as screens and objective grabbers, I'm pretty happy currently with 6 man Giant Rats!
I've gone from 5 units of 10, to 8 units of 6. In my mind that will make them better at blocking charges from my Ogors, and then still have some units left to go back and hold home objectives.
Can't wait to give them a go!
AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion
in Skaven
Posted
I'm sure those 5 spare points often go a long way!
Maybe their resummon ability triggers a lot more than I expect it to, but in my mind it doesn't take much to deal 8 wounds to them and wipe out the unit.
And, for how I use mine (as a screen), the wider footprint of the Giant Rats just feels too useful.
But I did go mad and buy about 20 bases worth of the Cursed City Rat Swarms, so I'd happily find them a place!