Qaz
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Posts posted by Qaz
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27 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:
.... don’t allow your opponent to place splits by intent.
??? Do explain.
Split and Split again (second paragraph): "Set up the additional models one at a time within 1"of the position that the slain model had occupied".Rare is the occasion where the blues fail to appear. I think you need 4 (32mm) models surrounding a pink for the second blue to failed to be placed.
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Funnily enough, this tells me that OBR battletome is intended or OBR's balancing changes are on hold for corporate marketing/greed reasons.
All in all, they are good changes.
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4 minutes ago, Xelotath said:
I’m a little bit confused by the FAQ as the designer note seemed to say they had changed the way battleshock worked with destiny dice on Pink Horrors but using Destiny Dice to give the horrors a 1 on battleshock would still generate more Horrors as it counts as Unmodified. Or have I missed something?
Ya, this is still true but not really a big deal since you require a 1 in destiny dice pool. Previously they were passing battleshock on any destiny dice regardless of casualties.
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FAQ is out. Lord of Change can't change destiny dice. No Kairos summoning. Changehost teleports 1 unit and destiny dice does not effect save rolls and battleshock rolls.
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For Kharadron Overlords, I'll instead called ingenious inventions (prayer like abilities):
- Macken Corp's Supremacy Nuke - it does what it says, Nuke people with aetherblast
- Aethermatic Protector Gholem - whilst within range, it protects all with pulsating aethershields (Like Tau drones)
- Malefic sky mines - litter the battlefield with small magic and heat seeking mines.
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Been playing with Tzeentch lately because (competitive) mates all want to check out all new fuss about. Here, I'm somewhat glad that KO's highest placing at Cancon is 30th.
That means I can take it against anyone and people don't dread facing KO. 🤣
Still think that the Ironclad should be 450-460 point model though. And the admirals and heroes drop 10-20 points each. Otherwise everything else is good (even arkanauts).
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Right... it seems that DoT book came into the tournament scene strong. Still early days, players may adapt and counters will turn up.
Or possibly, the realm-lords will put Tzeentch back in his place. Then the cycle of balance continues.
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3 minutes ago, novakai said:
well the real news is that the Skitarri units are perfect Greywater fastness/ Freeguild conversions
Ya. That's my first thought as well. Tempests Eye Pistoliers
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15 minutes ago, Wardwarf said:
Quick rule clarification. When the gunhaulers or frigate becomes battling by taking a sky port are you still limited by only taking 4 because of the behemoth rule? Or since they became battleline you can have more
Gunhaulers aren't behemoth or artillery fyi. If the FEC FAQ is anything to go by, yes if the Frigate is Battleline, it's no longer a behemoth and you can bring more than 4 Frigate.
Yes but why 5 frigates?
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Spoiler
Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Nar
Leaders
Aether-Khemist (90)
Aether-Khemist (90)
- General
- Trait: Champion of Progress
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (220)
- Artefact: Aethercharged Rune
Brokk Grungsson Lord-Magnate of Barak-Nar (240)
Bjorgen Thundrik (140)
Battleline
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (240)
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (240)
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (240)
Units
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Great Endrinworks: Coalbeard's Collapsible Compartments
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
6 x Endrinriggers (200)
4 x Thundrik's Profiteers (0)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 95A Barak Nar Grundstok foot list: a Legit list? Just bouncing some ideas in my head while waiting earlier today. I thought this could be a workable alternative list. More traditional AoS deployment with grundstok marching up the table with a khemist embedded in each squad. The 2 gunhaulers will carry everyone else with Brokk (with reroll charges!)
The core of the list 2-3 blocks of thunderers with a khemist (660-990 points), your "strike" team can be anything you prefer.
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6 hours ago, Cauthon said:
Its too bad they used to be poo and I don’t own any yet. Will be getting 3 for sure. (Unless pointy aelves blow me away on Thursday)
They were poo ... and people keep selling them for cheap secondhand, and when the battletome dropped... i had 5 gunhauler (4 unbuilt) haha. End up selling up the 5th.
Damn nice to see people doing well.
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49 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:
Comparisons are unavoidable, and....well....at least it proves that battletome power creep isn’t a thing.
Remember there's 2 guys: the guy who drinks tea and the guy who coked out. Could be the same guy, just different days.
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When the battletomes dropped and i saw Changehost, I could immediately field it with my collection and I did try. It was strong, but since then I had 5 games with KO and still only 1 with Tzeentch. KO still got me into AoS and I lucked out that the options presented is what I wanted to do anyways. (E.g Field ironclad with escorts etc). Power is not a concern. Although I might still bring out to a small tournament if the mission format is favorable. Still my weakest army compare to Fyreslayers or Tzeentch so unlikely to get nerfed (other than the odd errata) and most likely get small buffs over time.
Still has more rewarding play than my other armies.
So far, i can see many agrees that:
- KO is not a 5/0 nor a dominating battletome. More of B tier, 3-2 army.
- KO has more "pre-built" options in the battletome (compare to previous no ship or 1 ship)
- The current ruleset does not support transport garrisons very well. Probably see the improved 'Transport' system when Grotbag Scuttlers come out in 2-3 years or so...
I rather talk about what we ca do: with what we have; to deal with what's out there.
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9 hours ago, Ser_namron said:
If i had retreated to a flank with fly high he wouldve just dropped the flamers outside 9" again and roasted me for a 2nd turn in a row. I felt liek the only chance i had was to get a double turn.
Felt like a pretty impossible matchup, but i'd love to hear some advice.Ya, had a game against Tzeentch (was not a Changehost) and lost myself but that's because I only had 2 heroes and teleporting on objectives doesn't work.
If your meta is Tzeentch heavy, maybe it's time to castle up around a Khemyst with Emergency Vent artifacts for an aura of -1 to hit. Or the Intrepid Prospector battalion can push out your screen further away.
Kill the flamers first. Don't think you can kill the LoC in one round reliably.
For most part, It's who ever gets the first in second battleround wins in this matchup. Ha.
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2 hours ago, Cauthon said:
I think your needlessly limiting your list building trying to shoehorn certain Baraks into certain battalions.
Probably true. Still exploring what the book is offering after all.
2 hours ago, Cauthon said:You don’t even consider Barak Nar a main port for us???? Slap a iron sky command Barak Nar on your list at least. Gives you a good reason to go character heavy.
I have not considered Barak Nar seriously. List is not exhaustive. Every time I look at Barak-Nar, I wished it was 5+ ignore spell effects Amendment instead. In terms of list idea for Barak-Nar is starting off with 3*10 Grundstok Thunderers, probably in a frigate each, and a Gunhauler with 2-3 heroes. Paint them all as the black marines ghostbuster squadron.
So there's more for later since there's 6 battleline options. I would definitely explore it at a later date especially if the battletome internal balance is good. Maybe an army of MSU riggers and Gunhaulers in Barak Thryng with fyreslayers support. I feel like the only model that doesn't bring much to the table, is the Endrinmaster on foot. -
3 minutes ago, Neffelo said:
The changeling has the horror hero keyword so it can be a part of the changehost. The list is legal.
Wow. It does. Totally missed it the first time.
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12 hours ago, Neffelo said:
Thanks for the lists!
Changehost is coming in strong, no surprise there. I actually really like the Guild of Summoners list, despite it being one of my least favorite covens.
I'm not sure the number 2 is even legal. Can Changeling be part of the Changehost? Isn't it 8 units?
Edit: No big deal really, since you'll just force to spilt your Flamers to 2 units to make it legal and it becomes 2 drop.
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16 minutes ago, dmorley21 said:
Thanks for sharing your experience and lots of lessons learned. I think sharing experiences is going to be important for learning to play KO well, they're just such a different army.
I'm curious how important you found your drops to be. In the point above you mention that the double turn is more crippling if it's rounds 2/3 instead of 1/2. Does that mean drops don't matter as much?
Ah. I made an assumption that your opponent will never get the initiative or will never give you first turn because your alpha-strike potential.
I am not sure whether drops matter at the moment. My mates don't think so because they themselves wouldn't give up the first turn. I feel like it doesn't matter but have not had experience that tell me so.
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1 hour ago, Eevika said:
List is definitely bad. Makes about 0 sense to have an Ironclad with nothing to put in it. Also check your spelling on Endrinriggers
I think he is relying on the WLV endless spell to cripple the enemy army in the first battleround. The Zilfin hero phase move on the gunhauler which is up to 24" then drop the spell 13" + 7" for d3 mortal wounds on a 2+ to 4+ or D6 mortal on a 6 (happens on setup and at the end of every movement phase). Doesn't quite work when people see it coming or have good casters to dispel. From the look of his matchups, He did catch his OBR opponent off guard in the first round but still lost (minor). Then fought 2 bad matchups, Fyreslayers who can tank all the damage (They have an aura of ignore spells on 4+ relic and 4+ beard save) and Idoneth with 2 priest so they weren't on the board to begin with.
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32 minutes ago, Eevika said:
Biggest issue I have is that hordes seem battleshock immune almost all times.
It's because the only hordes worth taking is the one that's immune to battleshock. Otherwise they are too fragile 😅
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46 minutes ago, marke said:
I merely wanted to say I love KO for multiple reasons, but low model count is not the least of them.
Agreed!
But.
Low model count in AoS system usually means that you will struggle to hold and challenge objective and it fits well in most people's fantasy of how troops behaves too (Grunts hold ground etc) and low wound count army roughly translate to a fragile (and elite) army. Its part of the AoS system atm. Since I consider myself a hobbyist first and the only correct way to play is to have fun together, these factors are consideration to my game tactics and how I would react during the game and to many people, strategic consideration during list building but I prioritize models over lists (for my hobby returns).In the photo above, its 16 models on the field and 11 off for a 2k game: 1 ironclad, 2 gunhaulers, 12 riggers, 2 heroes, and 10 grundstok. Its tiny compare to what Seraphon can output (100+ skinks) so my tactics to win would be first onto objective and block it off and to remove the summoner units so I have a chance to challenge objectives. This mission is one of those falling star objectives, so it's more advantageous to KO as my KO list normally would not be able to hold objectives early and Seraphon can't get the lead they want in battleround 1 and 2. etc.
So, It's more of something to keep in mind whilst playing against others so that you can have a fun tactical game.
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9 hours ago, dmorley21 said:
As for competitive lists, I think a lot will depend on how important drops end up being. If low drops are essential, armies are going to be pretty mono build with the Iron Sky Battalion.
If not, I see a much wider range of builds as there's a lot of interesting choices you can make. So I think that will be important to test out and see.
I also watched WW (Warhammer Weekly) recently and agrees there are a lot of 'exceptions' and anti-synergies. Some like Barak-Thyrng, only KO battleline seems outright unfair. To me, they took a lot of lessons from 40k's transport mechanics and preemptively weaken it. But I can see why the rules seems unfriendly, the rules system itself doesn't support garrison in unit interactions very well.
I do think that are a build for each of 3 main battalion: Iron Sky for Zilfin/Zon, Iron Command for Zilfin/Urbaz and Escort Wing for Urbaz/Zon. There are all between 2-5 drops. Most lists are starting to look the same, is because when people look at KO, they see ships, grundstok marines and balloons and 7 Hitchers and 10/15/25 Marines transport on skyvessels, you'll see similar ratios in listbuilding. So naturally inclined to take an battalion that fits the skyvessels they want to take.
KO formula:
If Skyvessel exist, Marine count must be less than Skyvessel Garrison Capacity and Rigger count less than 8. 🤣
And none of the lists are actually bad or better put, there isn't one that is obviously better than the rest. Each have its merit, and they all have the same weaknesses. Low wound count, low damage output.
What I've learned so far:
I've had about 5 games of KO against OBR, Seraphon and Tzeentch. I was using a Barak Urbaz Escort Wing. What I've learn is:- Remember that you can disengage.
- Volley fire command ability is your friend.
- Spend your aether-gold (willingly but wisely). I prefer to use it on reroll saves but sometimes reroll wounds for grunstok and ironclads. Reroll hits of 1 is plentiful.
- For the early part of the games, stick your riggers close (6") to your ships so that you can hitch when the skyvessel fly high or 1" if it's endrinrigger/master for the repairs.
- As tempting as it is, all marines should be out by turn 2 latest or turn 1 if possible. Since I was playing Barak Urbaz, i only got grundstok with rifles (and khemist) to combat drop of skyvessels, and they can contribute to the middle of the board with their 18" range guns.
- Go second, and stay going second (for the second battleround). Having a double turn against you (in battleround 3) is more devastating than a getting double turn (in the battleround 2). If you take a double turn, you'll have to confident that you can take 2 turns of punishment without contributing much in the combat phases. You have >30% less army durability than most armies and many armies can chew thru your 80-100 wounds in 2 combat phases.
- Khemist's and 10 grundstoks can hold a position quite well with -2 to hit in combat.
- Don't just deploy in a corner, look out for mission objectives.
- Petrifex Elites do die to shooting with rend
- Tzeentch has a new bonkers interaction with destiny dice.
- Grudgebearer trait makes your dirigible suit a mini-ironclad (against marked target).
- Skyvessel prow should face the enemy with the riggers to either ports of the skyvessel. Reducing combat surface on the skyvessel.
Tempest-eye Grundstok Gunhauler with Drill cannon seems to be the best snipers In game.
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20 minutes ago, Frowny said:
Interesting suicide squad option. Could fit in a frigate with thunderers.
I feel like charging should always be a last option. The only time I would charge if I need an objective.... and that's about it. Ha. I've only played 2 games, as soon as you put in ironclads and frigates, your army wound count starts plummeting (i.e KO is relatively soft)
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Background - I own KO and Fyreslayers armies since their respective release. I also have Tzeentch army and due to that have enough Tzaangors for BoC. Had attempted to collect Idoneth Deepkin, Slaneesh and Stormcast but quickly sold those.
Worst:- I'd say Idoneth Deepkin had it worst due to poor internal balance and really feels punishing to play other builds (and models), Followed by Beasts of Chaos whose allegiance abilities just doesn't feel that impactful or feel good to take many of their units.
Best: I rate the chaos god allegiances pretty highly, in particularly Tzeentch and Khorne. The chaos god can bring a wide variety of units from other armies all in the name of Change or Skulls for the skull Throne. Khorne whilst have had better competitive days, have a really fun and engaging allegiance and you can have some creative builds with goats, S2D, skullcrushers. Controlling Destiny dice pool or managing blood tithe is fun and engaging. Both with some weaknesses that prevented them from being overly strong. Loving the new Tzeentch book, too early to tell but I feel like almost all the units have a place and competitively strong with a few prominent theory builds. (Eternal Conflagration Changehost alpha strike list and Guild of Summoners Fatesworn control list).
I also think KO book is super fun and has a very thematic and cool gameplay. Incredible mobility to the point of being broken but alas balanced by the fact that there's no one unit to 'delete' the opposing units or combination of powerful turn-by-turn buffs (+1 DMG, +1 Attacks, or even full rerolls). I would rate this book the Best (if it wasn't my favourite army) because ship gameplay is fun and thematic, they have really cool artefact (names), there's no must-take unit, have a broken mechanic but balanced with mediocre damage and is my favourite army.
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26 minutes ago, Grimrock said:
I'm curious, has anyone tried using horrors outside of the changehost/conflagration combo? I'm loving them there, but I'm getting the feeling that they're not going to be seen outside of it. Sure they take lots of shots, but their range is so small and speed is so low that I just don't see them working without at least a teleport to guarantee one good round of shooting. I'm also curious to see how splitting works out on the tabletop itself. If you space your pinks out a bit it should be easy enough to fit the blues in, but if you clump up for maximum shots off the teleport you leave yourself vulnerable to getting surrounded on the next turn and having blues wasted because there's no space to put them. Easy to assume they're busted right now but they seem like they'll be tough to use in real life.
Well.. you still have the bridge endless spell (for a movement spell). The Split happened after you remove the slain model within 1" of the position of slain model had occupied....
AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion
in Order
Posted
Kudos to GW for quick errata and FAQ. Wasn't expecting this until June to be fair.