Lucentia
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Posts posted by Lucentia
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I would agree with most of that, certainly. For me the value of the 30-model units is in trailing back to Hag Queens/buff auras whilst still allowing 20-odd models to swing, which lets you extend your threat range and catch out your opponent. (Plus I'm probably still half caught up in the old DoK rules where Witches got re-rolls to hit at larger sizes!).
I do think there's some merit in a more MSU approach, for sure.
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Is that one squad of 30 witches doing the classic Relocation Orb zig-zag up front there? Although Daughters are probably the premiere melee army in the game I have found you do have to be careful not to deploy/move into a position where your blender units can be locked down, and in your scenario above it looks like the VLoZD can tag a small portion of the screening unit and also get in 3" of the other big Witch unit behind the first? (Though obviously that's just eyeballing it) where the first unit will not have enough models in range to chip through a 3+ re-rolling 1s save, and the second unit will be stuck behind the first unit. Then if the second VLoZD reaches the other side of the screening witch squad they'll get stuck and your whole army will get snarled up in a grindy combat (couple that with any debuffs to make things take longer, as you rightly said). You can get similar scenarios against buffed Frostheart Phoenix (Which combine good saves and debuffs in one fast moving package!), Stardrakes (A save stat which Witches will not be able to chew through, and it can use its chomp attacks to potentially kill half your unit via coherency removal) and sometimes stuff like Plaguebearers. Anything that leaves you stuck in place for more than a turn is going to be costly for Daughters I find.
I'm not particularly good at avoiding this myself! I never have enough screening elements to block properly, and I', bad at deployment anyway. Sometimes it's just a case of knowing when to retreat one or more of the pinned units, reversing the situation for a turn or two by leaving their bruiser units stuck fighting your defensive Hagg Nar screen whilst you go score objectives until you're in a position to strike back. Slaughter Troupe can help with this, though then you'd need more Sisters of Slaughter over Witches.
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22 hours ago, Olincay said:
Is there anyway to get plusses to hit in our army? I got debuffed to hell at a local tournament yesterday that had my witches hitting on 5's.
Also messes with catachysm of murder.
Draichi Ganeth trait is the only way to get an innate To Hit bonus to my knowledge (+1 to hit rolls for melee weapons for any unit which made a charge move in the same turn.)
However you can also overcome To Hit penalties with the Hagg Nar re-roll to hit rolls if you throw enough attacks at the wall (Just be aware that re-rolls are applied before modifiers.)
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I'm planning on grabbing Lilith for use as a more dynamic Slaughter Queen when I get round to building the cauldron from the battleforce box.
The only problem with mixing in the Dark Eldar stuff is they're way bulkier in the arms than Witch Aelves, fine if you're doing them as separate units, but tricky if you want to swap arms/limbs around!
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I don't think there are many clashes with whips and hair, I know that at the very least the 'overhead strike' leaping pose works fine with the whips on witch aelves cos that's what I used for my unit champion. The only real issue would be telling the units apart, but a differing paint scheme would help, or just point out the whips I guess.
Just do a dry fit on heads/arms to make sure there's no clashes before committing.
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Slaughter Queen also helps you out in missions where heroes/artefacts score, and she's not generally a high priority target so it can be good to have a throwaway hero in the list for those scenarios (especially as most DoK heroes tend to be valuable support pieces that you can't often leave babysitting an objective). So my vote's probably for her, though that's partly because I don't think the infantry Slaughter Queen sees as much play as her cauldron-mounted variant and its fun to see her on the board!
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I could see there potentially being a second wave with some endless spells at some point, which could come with a clampack hero I suppose, but I don't imagine anything's on the cards soon, for sure.
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Mmm, all the factions for this seasons Underworlds are known, so it would have to be in an eventual season three, presumably ~Autumn time next year? The Underworlds teams are all single sprues with all the models on though (If I remember correctly) so that would be no good for a clampack hero, a new Warhammer Quest or Wrath and Rapture style boxed game could provide single hero sculpts at some point though.
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Strictly speaking DoK never had a SC box, the blood coven box was released as something you could use as allies and was set at a different price point to other SC sets, though obviously it was basically the same thing. The tough part is that the only heroes available for a SC are part of the Cauldron kit, and that plus any other single kit pushes the price past almost all the other SC sets.
Allied heroes can't take artefacts as far as I'm aware, so that should be a bug.
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20 hours ago, Tip4Tap said:
A friend of mine wants to start DoK and is thinking of taking this army to tournaments. As i have no experience with the army I’d thought I’d ask for some advice.
You would probably want at least one (maybe two) of those witch blocks with shields instead of knives to give you a bit of tactical flexibility. It's also quite weak in terms of magic, but that's not necessarily a problem, just something to be aware or.
6 hours ago, Manxs said:Hey guys just trying out this list just after xmas wanted to see if you guys had any tips or ideas for improvement
Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine
- Temple: Draichi Ganeth
Leaders
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron Of Blood (330)
- General
- Trait: Zealous Orator
- Artefact: The Darksword
- Prayer: Catechism of Murder
Bloodwrack Medusa (140)
- Artefact: Shadow Stone
- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
Morathi High Oracle of Khaine (480)
- Lore of Shadows: The Withering
Hag Queen (60)
- Prayer: Martyr's Sacrifice
Battleline
30 x Witch Aelves (270)
- Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
- Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives
10 x Sisters Of Slaughter (120)
- Barbed Whips and Sacrificial Knives
Units
20 x Khinerai Heartrenders (320)
Battalions
Slaughter Troupe (130)
Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100
You need two Heartrender units for Slaughtertroupe, but I'm assuming that's just a formatting error. I've been running a similar list myself (albeit at 1500pts without Morathi) and it works well enough. I don't rate Martyr's Sacrifice that highly (though granted I haven't used it too much) and have been running Sacrament of Blood instead, pretty much just so you can get to re-roll 1s to hit early, which obviously pairs well with the Draichi Ganeth trait and ability to retreat and charge. I also quite like Mistress of Poisons on the Slaughter Cauldron to turn her into an unexpected damage dealer, but Zealous Orator is good to (and probably better, really.)
As an aside, I'm planning on messing around with Lifetakers in the new year, but I don't want to deal with all those fragile Khinerai models, does anyone know of any where I could get appropriately scenery pillars/masonry that I could attach them to instead, preferably something similar to Morathi's pillar? I'm thinking of just grabbing one of those sets of AoS ruins terrains and carving that up maybe.
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I made this thing a while ago but only just got round to finishing up painting it.
Whilst I don't dislike the default Bloodwrack Medusa sculpt it doesn't exactly scream 'Wizardly Hero' to me, so I made this one instead. Also handy if I'm running two medusae and one has an artifact or something. I still think a 40mm base is too small, I like it on a 50mm more, but the style guide says 40, so whatever.
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59 minutes ago, Overread said:
Morathi's ruling is a bit odd because they are applying one logic to damage but not to restoring health, it does sound like a bit of a cop-out to make her weaker without saying so.
Morathi can't be healed by any means, regardless of if it's during a battle round or outside of it, so in general terms the FAQ comes to two results from the same logic, but in the case of Morathi specifically it does make sense.
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The 'A' stands for 'Action', so it's kinda like Diablo and stuff normally.
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With the End Times for WHFB leading into the new game I was hoping it would be a totally clean break, with no old characters making it through, but of course that could never really happen just by the nature of it being a miniatures game which people already have collections for. Turning powerful old-world characters into the gods of the new setting is good, and new Morathi is a far better character now than she ever was (imo). But I think the focus should definitely be on new characters, especially for new/re-imagined factions, which to be fair the books and stories tend to do quite well.
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It's an interesting spell, and there are certainly applications for it, but for me the restriction that neither of the swapped Heroes can be within 6" of any other units is too finicky to make practical use of unless you're specifically building a tactic around Mirror Dance. I'd want to be able to use it to Dance Hag Queens further up the field to buff unsupported unit, or pull vulnerable Heroes out of danger, but you can't really do that because of the range limitations (and that's only considering having to be 6" away from your own units, as soon as enemy units get involved it's a whole other mess!) Now, you could use it in conjunction with the Khailebon teleport to Mirror swap a buffed monster Morathi and let her swoop right into the enemy somewhere, sure (though you can't give her Witchbrew as a part of this) and if the Hero unit is a Wizard you can even try something around The Withering or other debuffs too, but it's quite a lot of investment in a strategy with a lot of fail states!
That said I am saying this without much battlefield experience with the spell, it may very well be more useful than I give it credit for!
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The new battleforce box is great value, certainly. You probably aren't going to want to run three cauldrons/shrines at once, but it will give you enough infantry heroes for most lists. At least one squad of Heartrenders show up in pretty much every DoK list (and several other Order lists as allies to boot) so a squad of two of those will not go unwanted, and the Melusai Blood Sisters are a capable combat unit. There's nothing in the battleforce which you can't make use of.
That said it might not be the most focused way to expand your forces, necessarily, depends what sort of lists you like to run really, but it's a nice chunk of useable options.
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Yeah, all the DoK heroes bar Morathi are only available in the Cauldron kit at present, I was kinda hoping for a DoK warband in Underworlds to make things a little easier!
If you only need a Hag/Slaughter Queen I might suggest the Sorceress model as a good base for a quick conversion, she basically matches the DoK aesthetic already so you just need to give her a couple of knives and you're good to go.
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I like one big squad so you get more benefit from your buffs, and give you spare bodies to string back to support units, though two squads of 10 could work well enough depending on the list. I've been using a unit of 15 and it's always done good work.
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The Witch Aelf Hag unit champions are basically indistinguishable from regular Witch Aelves if you build them as default, I've taken to using Sister of Slaughter heads but sticking the Witch Aelf hair to the back to make them stand up, it's a pain-free little conversion. All the Dark Eldar kits have some fun knives/chain-flails/funky spikes which can be good for customising, though most of the arms are way bulkier than those on the DoK models so they're not a great match, fortunately many come wearing gloves or gauntlets to cover the size discrepancy.
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Having 2 cauldrons is handy, you can run one as a cauldron and one as a bloodwrack shrine, or some lists do run two cauldrons which lets you split up your forces more readily (it can be worth magnetising the Queen on top mind, the Slaughter Queen is generally best up there for her command ability, but sometimes a Hag Cauldron is handy to throw in too.)
The only issue would be having perhaps more Khinerai than you really need, I'll probably pick up one box regardless, I was gonna start messing around with Lifetakers anyway. Probably don't need a 4th cauldron but I can find something to do with it, I'm sure.
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I was aiming to get my spooky chumps done by Halloween too, but I just missed it, close enough!
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Yeah, the DoK box basically had to be one cauldron kit (cos it's the only way to get any heroes outside of Morathi) along with a mix of 4 of the other boxes to make up the appropriate cost, would've preferred two Witch Aelf kits to two Khinerai, but there was pretty much no way they could make a 'bad' battleforce with the way the dual-kit options work for DoK.
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Yeah, Lifesprings is busted on Morathi.
I'd probably just take the lumps with Every Step a League, it's not huge damage, though it can stack up if you're not careful, avoid making unnecessary run moves with stuff like Cauldrons, Hags and Morathi I guess, it's a bit of a pain but not as bad as the Ghyran feature where you can't run at all!
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The Warhammer Weekly episode linked earlier actually featured a pretty elegant fix for Hagg Nar, which was to remove Blessing of Khaine, the Hagg Nar 5++ by itself is not necessarily problematic, it's when it is coupled with the Blessing re-roll that it gets noteworthy. (Blessing of Khaine is a prayer you only really see in Hagg Nar lists for this reason I think). Swap Blessing of Khaine for something more offensively orientated as befits the army style, or maybe make it a +1 to Fanatical Faith rolls on one unit for a less impactful defensive bonus, and you bring Hagg Nar more in line with Khailebron and Draichi Ganeth.
Blood Stalkers I do not have a quick fix for, shame cos they're great models, but even at 100 for 5 I'd be hard pressed to include them in most lists, I don't really know what would work to make them more enticing. Two shots a piece at 140pts would make them a more valuable shooting unit, I suppose.
AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion
in Daughters of Khaine
Posted
I would agree with Catechism as the obvious prayer choice, extremely juicy on the Blood Sisters for kicking out a surprising volume of mortals and catching people off guard.
I'm still not sold on Mirrordance, it seems like something you're only going to be able to pull off at the start of the game by specifically deploying for it, but with Morathi built for kicking out mortals like that it could potentially be a strong play. I do wanna try and mess around with the spell some more and see what it can do.
Any particular function in mind for the Blood Stalkers, just general harassing?
Seems like it might struggle against anything with decent mortal wound protection, but it could be a tricksy enough list to win out on movement options and objectives, I've never been good enough at that aspect of the game to comment!