Enoby
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Posts posted by Enoby
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2 hours ago, Beliman said:
I hope you are wrong. I wanted to start an Hedonites army after the reveal of the mortal side, but I couldn't with their rules. Imho, they are not enough interesting for an army that should be exotic, unique, with a lot of rare and special things, and again, interesting.
I think this was the case for a lot of people, in all honesty - it's a shared sentiment by many on this board and on FB groups. I do think the rules (alongside SBGL) botched the Slaanesh release and made it much less popular than it could have been.
I've been thinking about the potential for us to get a new book, and to be honest, the more I consider it the more I don't want it to happen until they've definitely had enough time to not just do a "tidy up" style book. 3e's battletomes have in general been pretty good, but there have been many that have just been boring re-hashes. The worst thing that could happen to Slaanesh is that they double down on their current design - as you said, it doesn't play anywhere near as interesting as you'd hope it would. I'd like them to do a Nurgle style reboot that consists of chucking most of the old book out and starting from 0.
Also, I think Khorne needs a book before us - I've not seen a book that has caused so many people to quit AoS.
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20 minutes ago, Popisdead said:
Are they still changing the books from hard cover to soft cover?
I know in AoS 2 they were doing that with an internal printer instead of massive order from china. I wonder if they will go more print-on-demand internally.
However I hope i'm wrong and a new book is coming and all my daemonettes and seekers and are viable...
I've not seen soft cover books for a while, so I don't think ours is being reprinted in soft cover. We can only hope it means a new battletome, though I would worry that if one came out so soon we'd have minimal changes (like Lumineth).
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36 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:
The battlescroll is likely this week, if the projected time window for the 40k version lines up with ours. What changes are we expecting or reasonably hoping for?
Personally I hope they continue the trend with point costs rebalances, and they bring the exalted seekers and hellstriders to a more reasonable level. Something like 110 for striders, 180 for slickblades and 160 for blissbarb seekers would be ideal in my mind, though I imagine realistically we'd probably not see better than 125 for hellstriders, 200 for slicks and 190 for barbs. But we got a pretty massive change with Sigvald in the past, so it seems it could really go either way.
While I'd love to see some drops, I'm a little pessimistic in not expecting any. As we're just within the 45% limit, they may well treat us as "fine" despite the fact that a large portion of our book is much less than fine. Personally I'd love to see some reductions (and a new Slaangor scroll), but I think their focus will be elsewhere.
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2 hours ago, Bosskelot said:
Not necessarily. Remember they use CAD when making models. If you compare the monopose CSM from shadowspear with the multipart kit they have a lot of indivudual identical poses, arms and heads. I guess it's not completely new but this could just be the case of them splitting the monopose designs up and giving options of how to build them.
Having built the new Chaos Knight kit twice, I can confirm that the hornblower is definitely a 1:1 torso replica of the shown knight, meaning only the head and weapon hand have changed.
Looking at the Knights and Warrios in the leaked battletome Images, I can see some 'duplicate' models and none that strike me as 100% new - I'm assuming knights and warriors will be the same as the push fit but with new arm options.
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1 minute ago, KrispyXIV said:
I'd personally like to see the mortal exalted Seekers get a review as well. While they've got great wound values for their cost, they just don't DO enough to consider over equal values of mortal infantry.
I agree. I think they used to be our best (or at least our better) units, but with Twinsouls going down so much it's hard to justify any other melee troop.
I do think they could be solved with a points drop of between 30-50 - substantial, but inkeeping with their very poor defence and bravery compared to units like Bloodknights. I know it's no real good comparing the two as they're in different armies, but it's hard not to!
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22 minutes ago, azdimy said:
Looks like we missed the mark on being in the factions that needs the most help according the recent gw metawatch article. Interesting that they ve broken the Orruk warclan faction for the first time. Hopefully they still provide proper buffs to our faction so it s not just 55 blissbarb archers and a krondspine that does well for us competitively
At least we're on the cusp of 'dire', as bad as it is to say, so we should at least get a glance over and hopefully a few points drops if nothing else.
Even if they don't touch mortals again, if they're looking at internal balance then we do need the daemons to get substantial drops.
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13 hours ago, Orphen1991 said:
Thank you very much for your reply, Is the incarnate so strong? Glutos Is my to buy list, Simply I really love the model so I'll get It After synessa.
Slaangor are incredible models, such a shame they are no good.
The Incarnate is very strong, mostly for these two reasons:
1) Simply put, it's got very good rend and damage, which we usually lack
2) For us specifically, as it can't die first turn, you can fling it in there and cause as much havoc as possible to every enemy there, racking up DP and letting your army advance mostly unscathed.
Both Glutos and Synnessa will get the job done - Glutos is still one of the tankiest characters in AoS, and Synessa is just good support with a cannon.
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1 hour ago, Orphen1991 said:
What about out other choices? Is Synessa or Dexcessa good? The keeper are Always a must have? Daemonettes and chariots only for summon?
Do you have and all around good list? In my meta there Is Kharadron, Stormcast, Idoneth, Nurgle, Ossiarch and Flesh eater.
Synessa is used pretty often, mostly alongside Archers to get as much damage as possible from range for an early DP lead.
Keepers are considered not worth it, due to their points being far higher than their damage and tankiness would suggest and the fact they're very easy to summon. I only summon them and daemonettes, depending on what I need - either bodies on objectives or a second pile in/monstrous threat. My experience with chariots is very limited but from what I have seen, they're not great.
As for all around lists, we do have a pretty good internal balance in our mortals - as in, you can take pretty much any mortal unit (besides Slaangors) and do okay with them. Daemons feel a bit forgotten with undercooked rules and way too high points. For an all around list, I'd recommend 10 Twinsouls as a hammer, three units of 11 Archers, two units of 5 Painbringers, Sigvald, and I personally like Glutos. This isn't the best list - for that you'd want an Incarnate - but it is a list that'd get you a decent amount of milage in a more casual meta.
If your meta isn't casual, you may struggle with Slaanesh but can pull yourself up with Archers, Synessa, an Incarnate, and a few cheap units to screen - this probably won't be a particularly fun list, mind.
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2 minutes ago, Beliman said:
That means that we don't have a lot to talk. All dmg inputs, BS/GT, and combinations of artifacts traits are overexplained in the first weeks of a battletome, and everything else is about gameplay (and we have youtube for it) so we go dry of things to talk very quickly
I 100% agree with you and your logic is sound, but at the same time I do remember the army-specific forums being busier even when we were in the "GHB Allegiance ability" era, where there was less choice. I could very well be mistaken, but I used to go on the Chaos forum part a lot and there was loads of discussion even when a faction didn't have a book recently, but that seems to have dried up. Even Maggotkin, last time I checked, have minimal discussion. I think the only Chaos faction thread I've seen gets tonnes of discussion in the past two years is Slaanesh, and that's because it has a dedicated following and it was a very poor book.
I reckon a lot of this is likely just the excitement of things being new - despite the fact that the GHB allegiance abilities were very narrow, they were novel so ended up being exciting. Now allegiance abilities are a given so they don't drive that same excitement, and as you said, the books aren't usually complex enough to spark debate on what's good.
I think AoS may be in a bit of a tricky middle ground when it comes to complexity. It's definitely more complex than before, which probably turns the most casual crowd off. But it's nowhere near as complex as 40k with different weapon options and a much more piecemeal design to lists. It's not that one's better than the other, but by the sound of what others have said, currently AoS is too complex to be the beer and pretzels game it used to be. On the other hand, some people I play with have argued it's too simple and that they end up taking the same stuff as it's objectively better (not that complexity will always fix this, but I think what they're saying is that there isn't enough customisation to make the 'worse' choice interesting).
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7 minutes ago, azdimy said:
I was closely watching the Tzeentch changes to see how our book could shape up and now I have no idea. I had my hopes up with the Nurgle book but Tzeentch seems to be a 2.1 book and not a 3.0. I can only hope they do a complete revisit on Slaanesh when our time comes
Same boat here. I can only hope they didn't change much of Tzeentch because they were actually happy with it, and not because they didn't have the time - and I hope they're not happy with our current book. I suppose, at least from what I saw, not many fans seemed unhappy with Tzeentch's old book so perhaps they took that as a sign not to change much?
If it's any hope, ours was the last book Jervis wrote and perhaps on the rushed side of a faction that was, at the time, considered in need of nerfs. More than that, Jervis can't be given the book again so there's little chance of anyone being too attached to the current rules to change them.
I really think this uncertainly on whether a new book will be good, or even a worthwhile investment, is really hurting the system - mostly because, when someone gets a new book, there seems to be more fear than excitement, and thus less hype. Not all of the changes make sense, and fans are often left feeling unsatisfied - but not always.
All we can hope is that all of the "worst battletome ever!" comments have gotten through to the rules team and the person who's assigned to write the next book knows they need some big changes.
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25 minutes ago, Sonnenspeer said:
Same here 😕 , don't know if it is because of AoS3 or life in general. But it's hard to find someone for a game night at the moment. On the other hand Warcry gained some momentum.
Seems to be the case here too, and in general AoS discussion hubs things seem to have dried up. It's a shame because I don't think AoS 3 is doing much to deserve what appears to be a growing lack of intetest, but rather I think it's just the fact the hype fell off. Between 40k taking the lion's share of releases, AoS's big future release being leaked, and the books (while better quality than 2e on average) not really sparking much discussion, it seems AoS is losing quite a lot of momentum which is a huge shame. This, of course, could just be observational bias - but on the other hand, they did mention this in their financial report so there's likely some truth to "AoS is losing hype" statement.
Personally, I've not enjoyed competitive AoS in a while as it's often felt very samey - perhaps it's the armies I usually face, but it's kind of turned into sink or swim alpha strikes that don't leave much of a game. I'm not sure if this is what other people have experienced, but in my last few games the damage has been so high that there's hardly been a game at all. I have been enjoying narrative games a lot more, especially when curated to stop people bringing their "narrative" triple cabbage list.
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To be honest, I see the Gaunt Summoner rule as more akin to the Mighty Lord of Khorne's axe rule - the one that auto slays on a 5+ should the hero be wounded. Realistically, it's very unlikely, but the use is more like a mind game. You see the Mighty Lord of Khorne out in the open and still you think twice about trying to kill them in combat with a hero, because on the off chance you get unlucky then your hero is totally gone, no matter how strong they were.
With the Gaunt Summoner, it's unlikely to go off as they need to survive until the end of that phase to use it - and unless they really buff the summoner's defences, that's unlikely to happen.
With the Khorne Lord, it's unlikely because 3/3/3/-1/D3, and then a 5+ isn't exactly an attack befitting of the title "mighty".
It's less that it's a viable strategy to hope either goes off, but rather the pressing question to your opponent of "dare you try?". That fear of very bad luck is likely to keep heroes like those pretty safe from other heroes.
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New Ogor battletome art shown
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7 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:
I'm also more familiar with King Brodd from the forums than from realmgate wars lore, so it really does feel as though one of us just got an official model! I wonder whether the sculptor was aware of the forum and our monarch's love for all things gigantic or whether they just looked at the older books!
I'd quite like to think so! King Brodd is a fantastic member of the forums, and a real beacon of positivity. If GW staff do hang around here at all, I'd like to think they thought of him when working on the model.
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Really love the new Chosen, and definitely looking forward to painting them.
While expected, it's a big shame about Gitz. I know GW doesn't update on a "needs" basis and the rules team likely has little to no say over whose rules they write, but it does make you wonder how upper GW decide who gets a tome. I assume it would coincide with models, but what determines that? I doubt it's wholly sales, as Gloomspite are very likely to be a better seller than Fyreslayers or Sons. Maybe it's just a dartboard.
Also hoping Khorne gets a new book early next year - both Gloomspite and Khorne seem to end up turning new players away from AoS when they start with them, from my experience.
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3 hours ago, Gaz Taylor said:
I don’t think Warcry has sold that well however my assumption is based off what’s on the GW site and they still seem to have the Warcry combat gages left over. I don’t think it helps people are being careful about what they spend money on as well plus Heresy dropped just after. It’s a shame as the rules look fun but I think these skirmish games will get more popular.
I hope Warcry does well but it wouldn’t surprise me if not.
I think a lot of people, myself included, are reluctant to buy into new GW games that aren't "Warhammer". Not just because opponents are harder to come by, but also because there's a much higher risk that the game is cancelled unceremoniously. For example, if anyone bought onto Silver Tower, you may have felt dissapointed that it was only supported up to its second box set and now may be around gathering dust (it even used to have an app that disappeared, if I remember correctly).
Unfortunately this mindset is self perpetuating and I can only hope that it picks up traction so people are keen to buy in.
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3 hours ago, Popisdead said:
I was wondering that too and since the battletomes in V3 AFAIK are generally in a good direction. I've heard mixed about the Skaven. A guy on The Honest Wargamer who played them before and liked that they kept it mostly the same but streamlined the book to be cleaner seems to be positive.
The problem I have projecting that onto Slaanesh is we don't need a streamline, but a re-write like Sylvaneth got. The Sylvaneth big guys got a huge boost and are a blast to play. That makes me hope the Keeper will be good again. I don't want to see a return to the Rhelion days of lists but a list where your Keeper wasn't a fire-magnet that was useless in CC.
I very much agree. It's why I'm hoping they take their time with it and use the strong reaction against the current book to be a catalyst for change, rather than just neatening things up.
I do think most 3e tomes are closer to "neatening up", but to different degrees - DoK feel hardly changed with a few QoL boosts from what I could see, Orks had a faction added to them but other than that were pretty unchanged unfortunately, but Nurgle and Sylvaneth had large changes to them as both were outdated. I'm hoping they see us as needing as the latter two.
My worry is they'll be scared to do as big a redo as Nurgle, though I think that's what's necessary. Even if they got rid of most of our abilities and rethought everything, I think we'd be more likely to end in a better spot. Despite our book coming out quite recently, the design is still reminiscent of mid-AoS 2, and there are loads of mistakes/outdated rules such as Breathtaker not making sense, Battalions being a core feature of the hosts, very limited rend, and the twins having the wrong weapon profiles. I'm also dissapointed that they didn't expand the mortal spell lore, considering we have a strong mortal caster with an ability to swap spells out... which you'd rarely do as all three choices are pretty bad (with, imo, battleshock immunity being the best).
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I'm curious, I've heard lots of good things about AoS 3e battletomes, but have heard more mixed things about the Skaven book. Could anyone elucidate? How is everyone finding the book so far?
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1 hour ago, Gitzdee said:
I doubt Slaanesh is getting a warband this time as they are not marked on the map like the others. Warcry being a Chaos themed game it would be weird for them to be left out.
I have a feeling Slaanesh won't be in it either, potentially being saved for the next season against a Lumineth faction if AoS 4 is to have the backdrop of Slaanesh's escape.
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1 hour ago, JustAsPlanned said:
When the new Tzeentch BT comes out in like, a month, I hope they at least allude to what happened to the original Curseling. With him coming to TWW3 it just feels wrong that we never got any real conclusion to his story beyond “uhhhh then the big muscle man got control and got lost in the warp lol”
I may be wrong, but isn't the Curseling just a "class" of Tzeentch Arcanite leaders now? So you could have a lot of Curselings in one place, all looking very different.
If that is the current lore, then it might be hard to reconcile it with the past Villich. While I like generic heroes, it's a shame that the original Curseling has mostly been forgotten in AoS lore, unless I've missed something.
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20 minutes ago, azdimy said:
I think it s more the krondspine and the purple sun(giving us the extra rend we desperately need) than the point drops (while this helped as well) that are giving us more wins
On the always strike last being too easy comment, I think it hasn t been the case for a while with the quantity of shooting in the game and more armies having also access to asf/asl
While the treelord no pile in and always strike last worked to great effect for my opponent, I was still able to kill it while keepiing it engaged Units are a lot more resilient with all out defense and better armour saves in the game in general. Our old locus and the keeper being able to excess of violence itself to attack a second time would not be that scary with where the game s at
I definitely think they've helped too, though everyone else has access to them and we're not the most effective user of the Purple Sun (it helps us a lot, but our best caster is still not unbeatable by a long shot) so I don't know if we can attribute the full 14% boost to those alone (but I don't doubt they helped).
I suppose by "too easy" I didn't meant "too good", but rather "not cognitively involved". Old Slaanesh was far too strong because of its summoning combined with the locus, but I'd say the summoning was the biggest issue - hence why it beat other armies that had strike last. However I disliked our old locus because it felt like I was making incredibly safe moves every turn - I moved up my KoSs, made the enemy strike last, and hoped I killed them. I never felt particularly involved in wins as I didn't need to interact with what I'd consider AoS's most tactically complex stage - attack order.
I'm fine with tactically conditional strike first/last, such as Sigvald (who needs to charge), but rolled for strike last felt very tactically uninvolved for me. I'd like our new locus to be useful (unlike currently) but not run up and smash (unlike before); something like:
"Subversion
Once per phase, when a command point is spent, you can attempt to subvert the command with a friendly Hedonite Demon Hero within 12" of the unit issuing the command. On a 3+, the command point is spent and the command is both issued and received, but the command has no effect. Add 1 to this roll if the Hero has the Greater Demon keyword. Each friendly Hedonite Demon Hero can only use Subversion once per battle round."
Something like this would be powerful (you could potentially shut down big plays or inspiring presence), it would be relatively unique and flavourful (with Slaanesh daemons whispering into the ears of the enemy to cause chaos), but you would have to think hard about when you used it - if you only had one demon hero, you may want to wait until a big inspiring presence is going to be used to save an opponent's elite unit, or try to stop a huge rally, or to cancel out an important command like Ravager's/FEC summon but you couldn't stop all of them. Balance-wise, this is probably a bit on the strong/oppressive side so it may need a further limit (such as not spending the command point), but the idea is to have a locus that is both strong but requires tactical choices from both opponents (for example, the opponent trying to trick you to use your once per phase Subversion on a command ability they don't care as much about).
As a side-point, I'd love it if mortals got their own special allegiance ability.
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6 hours ago, azdimy said:
It was weird fighting a treelord my opponent summoned, these guys have the old rules we used to have for our keepers (give asl on 3+) makes me hopefull we get some of our cool rules back. In the end i got the win getting my grand strategy and preventing him to get his ( we both had take what s theirs)
Thanks for the write up
Personally I hope we don't get strike last back - at least personally, I found AoS 2 Slaanesh to be far too "easy" in that I just pushed my KoS up the board and killed with impunity thanks to strike last (I don't like it on the treelord either). However I do think the current locus is underwhelming and would like to see it replaced with something both more fitting and more useful, like some sort of command ability 'off' switch (even outside of the combat phase). Something that's useful but has to be used intelligently.
I do think/hope our next book will be of much better quality so long as it has time to be written properly. I really hope the twins get a full rethink too - Synessa isn't bad, but they're not bad in a bad way - they're good for chip mortal wounds. It's very silly that the embodiment of Slaanesh's subtly and magic is worse at casting than a mortal with a special staff and a Contorted epitome. It's even more silly that they mixed up the weapon profiles of Dexcessa and Synessa's models, suggesting they were both a rushed job (with Dexcessa having the scourge attack profile but Synessa being the one with the actual scourge).
On a more positive note, our win rate has gone up from 29% to 45% thanks to the last GHB. Not that we're decimating tournaments, but the points drops were a big help.
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Perhaps I missed it, but any news on the Legionnaires getting AoS rules before the S2D book? I like the look of them but tend to use cultists in P2G so wouldn't have a use for them without AoS rules.
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Really love the sorceress model. I like that she's distinctly a Chaos sorcerer but different enough that you can run her, the current plastic kit, and the Underworlds kit in a single army and none of them would look repetitive.
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The Rumour Thread
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
The new Slaves to Darkness leaks make them seem very strong, though it remains to be seen exactly how strong.
Some small bits (not all changes):
- Archaon has 25 wounds and a 5+ ward (860)
- Chosen have 3 wounds, 3+ save, and 2 damage (240)
- Warriors have rend and a 3+ save (220)
- Knights only have lances, but these are 4/3/-1/1 off a charge, and 4/3/-2/2 on a charge. They also have a 3+ save (230)
- All of the tribes have been simplified as expected, and Host of the Everchosen allows varaguard and knights to rally on a 4+
There's a lot more than this, but in general, everything is a lot stronger but more expensive - which is how it should be for Slaves. I didn't like them being the cheap and cheerful conquerors of the realm (so long as their enemy didn't have a good save) - now every elite unit is a force to be reckoned with.