[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

15 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Also a good option. In most scenarios a better unit for objective capturing than the admiral I think. What are your thoughts on thunderers? I'm kinda leaning that way more and more. Someone else suggested a bigger squad with all rifles for the khemist to buff. Sounds like a great and more importantly reliable damage dealer. 

Another equally good option. I think if I take Thunderers, I want to take them as 10, all rifles. Their ability to run out of combat would come in very handy. Let the Arkanaut pistols shoot the guys who charged your Thunderers and use the Thunderers to then shoot down special targets/mass infantry.

The think about Arkanauts is they are +1 to hit heros/monsters making their skyhooks 3+,3+. Those big 10 wound monsters can't take look out sir, most players were bringing 2 of them, and the 24" range is glorious.

If I dropped Brokk and the admiral, I could add a khemist and 10 Thunderers. That would be some scary shooting turn 1 and 2. If I kept Brokk, I'd do 10 Arkanauts. (Brokk is great for deterring charges and dealing an average 9 damage when supercharged tho). A few good choices is always a good place to be in. 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

2 hours ago, Kramer said:

Thanks for the write up and the positive vibe in them! Well played all in all and good starting point to help each other improve. 

Question about the list. How valuable was the admiral in your games? I find that he offers not enough for his points in my games. I;m seriously considering dropping him for 5 thunderers with rifles as objective holders. (especially when I got Brokk in the list)

Glad you asked. No, the admiral did very little with the Navigator already in the list. He was essentially another hero. My thoughts were he'd be another scorer and allow the ship to run and shoot. Rarely came in handy to run the ship with the Navigator doing a d6 extended move.

I rathered another 10 Arkanauts with skyhooks to buff with the khemist when the riggers got out of range.

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

Played in a 5 game 2000 point GT this past weekend at Crucible Orlando. Had a great time and I'm more confident in KO after the weekend than before the weekend. I know, and understand (and agree) they have been heavily nerfed this past edition.  This was just my experience and I think they are still quite good.

TL;DR: I went 2 - 3 but I could've done better if I was a better player. I killed 4 out of 5 generals, and never lost my general. Majority of the games I scored more table quarters than my opponent. Killed a Thudertusk, Stonehorn, Zombie dragon, Terrorgheist, Unclean One, hordes and hordes of night haunt skellies, ghouls, daemonettes, plaguebearers, and more.  And ALMOST killed a Keeper of Secrets, even after putting 20+ wounds into her (she kept healing herself from Shyish Realm Command Ability).

 

My list: 

Barak Urbaz
Swapped Artefact of Power for: Aethersight Loupe (unbind ability)
Footnote: There's No Reward Without Risk
Realm of Metal

Aetheric Navigator - General, Fleetmaster

Aether Khemist - Alchemical Chain (Chamon unbinding artefact)

Arkanaut Admiral - Aethersight Loupe (KO unbinding artefact)

Brokk Grungsson

-

20 Arkanaut Company - skyhooks

10 Arkanaut Company - volley guns

10 Arkanaut Company - skypikes

-

Arkanaut Ironclad - Magnificent Omniscope

-

12 Endrinriggers - 2 grapnel launchers

2000/2000

 

Game 1 vs. Beastclaw: Major Victory playing Starstrike

I let him go first, deployed my army out of charge range. He moved up did 1 mortal wound to my ship. My first turn, I shot his Thundertusk and calvary down a bit, charged with riggers, killed off his Thundertusk. Got turn 2 priority, dropped my Admiral off and he ran to the objective, shot his Stonehorn down, charged the calvary and Stonehorn with riggers and Brokk. Wiped most all of them out, killed Stonehorn. He conceded after round 2. General was in reserve 'hiding' and died for not deploying.

Game 2 vs. Nighthaunt: Minor Victory playing Duality of Death

I didn't think I could hold 2 objectives against a horde army. I took first turn. I deployed heavily to one side of the board. Parked the Ironclad on one and held it for the entire game. He took the 2nd object by teleporting there. It was a draw on VP and destroyed 1600 points of his army. He killed 120 points of mine. Game time ran out after round 2. Given another battle round, I would've been able to shoot my riggers to his object and take it over. 

Game 3 vs. Flesh Eater Courts: Major Loss playing Places of Arcane Power

It was his 6 wizards vs my 2 heros with artefacts for scoring (That's where I feel the unbalance). I let him go first, he ran everything on the board forward, had a bunch in reserve that he dropped in my backfield (diagonal deployment sucks for defending that). I put 10 in the back to block his mvmt. My turn, I took out his Zombie Dragon hero and almost his Terrorgheist hero. Couldn't shoot off his wizard near the middle objective. Turn 2 he got priority. He took the middle object and one outside objective, did a crazy 10 mortal wounds to my riggers from the terrorgheist and knocked all but 1 off. He pushed some ghouls into my hero with an artefact to keep him from contesting middle object (3 inches away!). My turn 2, I killed the terrorgheist and took an outside objective. I shot in the hero phase at the unit holding my hero with an artefact. Killed all but 3 and couldn't run out of combat to secure the middle objective. 4 - 2, his win. Game time ran out at the end of 2. 

What I could have done better: focus Brokk shooting and combat on his middle Wizard and round 3 I would've taken the center objective, securing the Major win (getting minor if we had to stop after turn 2). It came down to such a simple change of who to charge and attack. Priority turn 2 would've ensured a major victory since I wouldn't have been tied down by his ghouls for the middle objective.

Game 4 vs. Nurgle: Major Loss playing The Relocation Orb

I gave him first turn. He ran 30 plaguebearers on the objective. Moved his army closer to the middle. He dropped his Gutrot hero and blightkings on my back right deployment area. I retaliated turn 1 by taking out his unclean one in the shooting phase. Attacked his plaguebearers with riggers and Brokk and killed about half. Not enough on the objective to win it back. Killed off the blightkings in my backfield. I won priority for turn 2. The Orb moved to my bottom left and I ran a 10 man unit to it. My riggers/Brokk were tied up and my ship was too far away to get close enough. I tried shooting down his flies but couldn't take enough down before his turn. His turn 2, he flew his flies and a daemon prince down to the objective. His daemon prince was enough to sway the total in his direction. 4 - 1, his win. Game ended after round 2.

What I could have done better: Swapped my charge of Brokk and riggers. The riggers charged too many outside the center cluster of plaguebearers to score on my round. STUPID mistake. Shoot the prince, not the flies. I played to the 50/50 chance the orb was going to roll the other way. If it had, I would've had a much much better chance of parking the ship in the way and jumping on the objective with two heros with artefacts (counts as 40 models). Unlucky orb roll.

Game 5 vs. Slaanesh: Major Loss playing Gifts from the Heavens

I took first turn. Charged everything up, shot out a 20 unit of daemonettes, layed 10 wounds into his Keeper of Secrets. Grapnelled in and charged her with 12 riggers. She had the doppleganger cloak. I TOTALLY FORGOT. Riggers were shredded to pieces. I took out a couple chaos knights. His turn, he charged me a bunch of places, I held him off. I took top of round 2. I took one center line objective and my objective. Killed a bunch more of his models. His turn 2, deployed 30 daemonettes with his 31 depravity points and took my objective, his objective, and the new center objective. 6 - 4, his win. Game ended after turn 2. 

What I could have done better: OMG I could kick myself till next year. I knew he had the cloak, and then once I got into my turn, totally forgot. I went straight for the throat and couldn't even attack in combat. almost 500 points GONE! If I had just focused them to one side of his army, they would've shredded his units for two turns straight. Slaanesh is very squishy.

My conclusion... Kharadron Overlords, if played correctly, will lay waste to most of these armies. Understanding their army strengths and targeting them before they are effective is key but very doable with the ability to Fleetmaster and decide who goes turn 1. I could've decided who went first every game with a 2 drop army if needed. I never played Nagash, but I know that would've been a lot tougher. There were a few Nagash armies, lots of stormcast, lots of nighthaunt, and a mix of all others. We aren't top 3, but if I played as tactically as I know some of you are, I could've been top 5 of 30 armies. Maybe my sampling of opponents isn't typical, but I came away from the tournament satisfied with how good the army is, but unsatisfied with my tactical ability. And OH MAN, I killed lots and lots of monsters. ?

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

Anyone have experience playing idoneth deepkin?  Wondering what the weak spots are... Quantity of wounds over quality of wounds (high rend)?

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

I have a decision to make. Any suggestions???

Brokk to run with my riggers and 20 Arkanauts with skyhooks

Or

Navigator, Admiral, 10 Arkanauts, and 10 Thunderers

The slight modification would finish out my army...either way has it's advantages.

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

22 minutes ago, Soka Paint said:

. I guess for me, it's important to never rule out either option and to make a decision based on the specific circumstances of each matchup.

Yeah, totally get that. Appreciate the feedback. You did a great job!

I'm guessing from your report, a round of buffs/magic didn't matter/bother you that much.

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

On 9/30/2018 at 12:47 PM, Soka Paint said:

Hi everyone. I’m the guy who won the Osaka GT last weekend with a Barak-Mhornar list.

 

Thanks for reading!

It sounds like going second was a huge win for you. Would you recommend going 2nd or did you choose that based on their deployment? I usually default to going first to shoot as much as I can and charge with my riggers before opponent has a chance to cast any buffs. But after reading your report, sounds like going 1st wasn't the right thing to do.

Thanks for the detailed report!

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

5 hours ago, Dawnmane said:

Tactics question:
I might be going up against a gorefist+mawkrusha IJ list next week. Any ideas for how to take that on as a Kharadron player?

My experience is 9 Riggers was enough to take down the hero and mawkrusher. Was also able to keep the rest of the army at bay with my ranged shooting and boats for cover. It took a few turns but -2 rend from skyhooks and d3 damage was key!

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

Gearing up for a local tourny next month. Crucible Orlando. I'm trying to put together the most potent list with what I've got. Here's what I'm thinking...would love your critiques.

Mhornar allegiance abilities

Aether Khemist x2

Brokk Grungsson

Arkanauts x20 - skyhooks

Arkanauts x10 - volley guns

Arkanauts x10 - skypikes

Ironclad - sky cannon

Riggers x12 - 10 saws, 2 grapnels

Khemist as the general. 2 drops. Brokk, 2 khemists, riggers, 2 units of arkanauts on the ironclad for 1 drop . Other Arkanaut close by for 2nd drop. 2000 pts.

Riggers and Brokk jump out and alpha strike main target. Run, shoot and charge first turn with Brokk. Single arkanauts deploy from ironclad to take objectives. Khemist general drops near 20 arkanauts to buff skyhooks and buff for rerolls. Turn 2, riggers pile in during hero phase for an extra fight if they are still alive ?.

Wondering if no unbinding is gonna hurt. If I inflict lots of damage quickly, opponent may have trouble keeping afloat and magic won't matter.

Have 2 frigates, 10 Thunderers, admiral, navigator, and 10 more arkanauts on the bench.

[AoS 2 - Dispossessed Discussion]

On 9/3/2018 at 1:09 PM, Myzyrael said:

Has anyone some experience with fast allied units in the dispossessed or other ideas how to capture objectives that are outside our footslogging range?

Last year a player ranked in the top 10 at some GTs using dispossessed with an allied celestant prime. They can drop in anywhere and have like 12" mvmt. That'll add some punch and mobility. I also second the Riggers. They are quick, lots of shots and good attack, 2 wounds, 4+ save.

9 Riggers is 18 wounds, 27 shots, 10 chainsaw attacks for 360 pts.

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

@High Overlord Xenuand and others, how many drops are you seeing with other tournament armies?

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

7 hours ago, Beliman said:

I'm starting to hate that. Ending the games in turn 2 or 3 is one of the worst designs. You aim for the head, if you don't hit hard, the match is 80% done. It's one of the main things that I really don't like about the army, I want to have options.

I understand. That's how I felt with the old dwarves in 8th Ed. They were always a gunline. But I'm so impatient, I'd be charging by turn 2 or 3 cuz I just couldn't wait any longer. 

I think KO match up to my instinctive play style and aesthetic. But I understand that's not everyone's play style and would like more options. 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

7 hours ago, stratigo said:

 

Too many armies are really good at priority target protection now though, and better at protecting their key models than KO are at killing them.

That's why it's essential we go turn 1. We shoot before they get a chance to buff and protect.

Our army isn't going to be the perfect aggressor to every other army, but most armies need that first round of buffs to keep their main units alive.

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

@Cannonball Agreed! I usually run a 9 model unit of riggers but what do you find is helpful if playing just a mobile screen to delay access to your shooters? I've toyed with doing x2 6 model units of riggers.

Yeah, I usually see people starting to make mistakes when they try to then play at keeping their special models from being shot down.

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

On 8/26/2018 at 12:19 PM, Cerlin said:

I am compelled to ask after reading so many pages here; why are many KO players seemingly so against allies?

...

So to reiterate; why so few allies? And what about the other skyports?

I think most people here are playing to the narrative that taking Allies is not the Duardin way. I think that if you find a hole in your strategy, then there are numerous options with allies to fill that void. Like afore mentioned: meat shields, tunneling support, artillery, etc. And by all means, I love the narrative. So kudos to those holding to it and those that break the mold with their own narrative!

I personally find that 400 pts is not a whole lot to take a  sizable force to do more than just one simple thing for you. People of other factions often take a big beefy hero just under 400 points, spell casters where they don't have good options, or a hero that buffs a general allegiance over a specific one. 

I've taken a unit of Bezerkers and a Smiter to add additional offense to the alpha strike, or an option to take objectives, etc. I find that the most useful with what I have available to me.

Regarding sky ports, I think Sigmar promotes maximizing on one strategy. Whichever strategy that is, I think there are sky ports that can assist with any of them. My reasons for the different ports are:

Nar: This is anti-magic spam-a-lot!
Zilfin: Deep striking alpha. 
Zon: Extra chance for the epic charge. Killing Nagash/Cauldron/Drake/etc. out of the gate will cripple an army. Going for that hero/monster also gives you buffs!
Urbaz: Double my khemist abilities. I was planning for this one to do Riggers and Thunderers and Company in an Ironclad w/ 1 Khemist. Then do 2 units of skyhook Company in the back w/ 1 khemist. The Khemists can buff 2 units a turn.
Mhornar: In your face shooting. Party bus with the general works great for the general's posse getting to reroll hits.
Thryng: Really good shooting buff if I get 2 or 3 on the roll.

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

What are good volley gun tactics? I have a hard time finding value in those equipped on any unit. (Sorry if this was addressed earlier)

 

I feel like every other weapon is mediocre or good. Volley guns just seem like too much of a risk. And when considering replacing the melee weapon for one, or another special weapons for one, I'm unable to find the equivalent in damage output to others.

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

7 hours ago, Lightbox said:

So since Khemists are pretty integral how many are recommended. I don't have my book on me but they only affect one unit a turn correct? So would you want a couple (say 2 or 3) to buddy up with some skyhook arkanauts or rifle thunderers?

 

Also having looked at endrinriggers their melee attacks do look potentially nice if khemist buffed and I will be wanting a squad of some balloon men personally. Yay or nay on giving them special rifles? I'm not personally sure if any warrant replacing the pistol and saw.

I usually do 2 Khemists (because that's all I have). I'd be tempted to take a third but that would only be necessary depending on your army build. I usually drop 1 khemist with my endrinriggers w/ saws and 1 with my Arkanaut unit w/ Skyhooks. You could go with Urbaz and allow them to use their ability on 2 different units per turn. This could be useful if you dropped a unit of Thunderers w/ rifles and a unit of endrinriggers and a khemist. The khemist could buff both in one turn.

And if you did that, you could have your battleline in the back with the 2nd khemist giving buffs to 2 separate Arkanaut units with skyhooks.

I think endrinriggers are best with saws but I could see giving them the drill cannon instead of grapnel launchers if you were looking for -3 rend over mobility. But i personally feel too many special weapons for that group takes away from their potential to level units.

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

8 hours ago, Kramer said:

Even then I have the feeling it’s one of the most FAQ’ed tomes. Not to mention one of the warscrolls is reworked from the ground up. 

It’s a very bad/incomplete product as it is. Regardless of faction strength. You wouldn’t accept such a faulty product from a different manufacturer. 

Agreed. It's getting a little absurd with how many documents I have to keep track of and memorize. Unfortunately, I like printed books and so I carry this library with me. I think I'm going to start cutting out the FAQ answers and start taping them into my books. And to think that we are probably 2 years out from a new book seems crazy that the current one will be half wrong by the print.

3 hours ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

@Rachmani

@ Nicolaunch

Completely agree that we should be able to fight from the ships.  I’ve been experimenting with using the terrain garrison rules for the ships, allowing the embarked passengers to shoot and fight from the ship and be targeted in return.  They really help us out without being broken.

As for the Admiral and the Endrinmaster, I guess the first could have his invoke the code looked at again, whilst the latter could be given a points decrease if nothing else could be found.

Also, I really really really think that the khemists (new) augmentation ability should be applicable to the ships.  All the characters should have an effect on the ships imo.

 

I really like the idea of using garrison rules. I'm beginning to do more narrative play (although still love the competition) and I think this could fit in great. I really like that they even brought the ships into it with transport rules. But with the adjustment to disembarking at the beginning of the Hero phase, we'll find them in the ship for an extra turn. Having the ability to shoot that turn (and be shot at) would be great at keeping them competitive. 

1 hour ago, Rachmani said:

We're not saying the Khemist is the problem for the army. We're saying he's the problem regarding future buffs. 
Many armies get +1 attack but to my knowledge only through command abilities. Static buffs most often come in the form of +1 to hit/wound, rerolls or extra saves.

I agree on the matter of admiral & endrinmaster. The former could be helped by the Arkhelian King treatment - meaning Skywardens become battle line when he's the general.

Great point. I think it's fair to make. I just see myself going up against Witch Aelves that only need to be within 8" of their hero and getting an extra attack. Irondrakes getting an extra shot for having 20 strong, death summoning units to fight again, and nurgle subtracting 2 from my hit rolls. I just see the additional attack matching the meta I see around me.

I could see revising that ability as long as we got access to more units and maybe it being specific to certain units. But being that we are limited on units in comparison, I think the static buff is key. Like, what if there was a Endrinmaster mounted on a balloon that provided specific buffs for wardens/riggers, khemists buffed arkanauts and thunderers, and admiral was more focused on ships and army wide command abilities.

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

I don't think the khemist is the problem for the army. If anything it's what helps make it competitive to other new, strong armies. DoK get +1 attacks, Death get +1 attacks, chaos get additional attacks, etc.

The Thunderers were poorly written at first, and that's why they got changed, I think. Even 10 guys shooting hand cannons 36" with d3 damage would've been too much. No other units get all special weapons choices unrestricted. Especially not for 100 points. But other armies get +1 to attacks all the time.

Magic unbinding helped the Navigator be relevant. If anything, they need to find more value in the admiral and emdrinmaster. 

The changes created a little more difficulty. But after a few games, I feel we still have a chance to make some room for ourselves. I do agree we need more unit choices. And I feel like we need more opportunity to deal out mortal wounds. And we should be able to fire from the ship decks without having to disembark.

 

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

15 hours ago, Oldmanlee said:

Hi all 

I know ko aren't really top tier anymore but I don't want to give up on them as they are still great looking models on the table top and fun to paint . I'm trying to come up with a list based round two ironclads that will not get rolled in tornament games.do any of you guys run such a list or would I be better of trying some other ship based list? 

I think 2 ironclads can still be tough to fight. That's lots of protection and intimidating. Since the ironclad can buff the other vessels, how about running 3 gunhaulers instead of another ironclad as an alternative? 

I feel like you don't get the added torpedos and transport, but you get multiple cannon shots, more wounds, more units for adjusting to the flow of the match, etc.

[AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion]

Had a friendly game last night...

 

Barak Thryng sky port

2 Khemists

Navigator w/ unbind artefact and fleet master

Brokk

--

20 Arkanaut w/ skyhooks

10 Arkanaut w/ spears

10 Arkanaut w/ volley gun

--

Ironclad w/ sky cannon

--

9 Endrinriggers

Total: 1920

3 drops (could be 2 if necessary)

I played against Daughters of Khaine. It was a fun match. I wanted to play Brokk because he seemed fun. He's a magnet for mortal wound attacks... But fun nonetheless. We called it after turn 2. I killed about half, or more of his army and he killed about a quarter of mine. I sent the riggers out on a killing spree (sisters and warlocks) and then focused all my other firepower on the core of their army: witches and cauldron.

My tactic usually is make the opponent scared from the first 2 turns. Go for it right out of the gate. I feel we're almost forced to focus on infantry first with look out sir. But I think that's ok. Without infantry, I think the enemy is crippled...except Death probably.