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ShadowSwordmaster

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    The Problem of the Free Peoples and the Freeguilds in Age of Sigmar

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted · Edited by ShadowSwordmaster
    Grammar

    21 minutes ago, MacDuff said:

    They had me at "beast riders", but the way out might be to emphasize Guilds. These define armor and arms (and traits) thay define their force structure (foot soldier, knight, militia, city guard), but have several races modeled in those styles, sometimes with unique mounts or weapons, but perhaps with an emphasis on ranged attacks. This would let units of Aelves and Humans, etc. fight side-by-side with a visual continuity while each being a bit unique. That implies a lot of kits, though...

    The problem is that this does not reflect in the units you can get for that army currently with what is available. But you could find it in other factions under the Free Peoples, but not there.  

    EDIT: I hope to see a fleshed out army that has what you wrote.

    The Problem of the Free Peoples and the Freeguilds in Age of Sigmar

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted · Edited by ShadowSwordmaster

    We are a couple of years into Age of Sigmar and see many different types of factions coming for each Grand Alliance so far. When it comes to the Grand Alliance of Order, there is a problem. The problem comes into the form of humans, more specifically the Freeguilds and their place in both fiction and on the table. At first glance, there are, for all intense of purposes, what is left of the Empire range that has not to be broken apart into different factions like the other factions that transferred over to Age of Sigmar. What the problem I present to you is what the Free Guild represents in the context of Age of Sigmar and the problem of that representation.

    In the Grand Alliance Order handbook, page 134, the description of Free Peoples doesn’t mention the race of these groups, but it only talks about a few examples of what they have and where they come from. But what is shown as part of the Free People is where the problem comes in. All it shows are old Empire models before it ends and the next one faction in the books is the Ironweld Arsenal. So, I looked at the description and notice it is very Empire influenced. Essentially, the Free Peoples are just Empire in the book, which is the Freeguilds, which are humans.

    Now, the book came out early in Age of Sigmar’s cycle and things are different when looking at the Core Book that came out last year. But the problem remains there. What the Core Book shows, on page 140, that the Free Peoples include other races and not just humans, but then it reaches the Freeguilds section and the problem previously mentioned before is still there, but it changed at the same time. On Page 141, it describes  what makes up the Freeguilds:

    “The Freeguilds recruit from every stratum of society – when the city is under attack, military aristocrats from the inner districts and lowborn officers command stalwart professional soldiers, ex-criminals and even armed militia, their common humanity uniting them against the horrors they must face. Over time, these melanges of races and creeds have intermingled, forming new alliances and factions thirsty to prove themselves or to avenge their predecessors. An army or garrison from a Sigmarite city may include a dozen different kinds of footsoldiers, knightly orders, beast riders, proven militia and city guard, all with their own uniforms, traditions and rivalries. Some go to war in resplendent plate armour, others have not even a pair of boots to call their own, but they are rich in spirit one and all. When their hardwon way of life is threatened, they put aside their differences, fighting as one under the steely gaze of a Freeguild general.”

    Now where is the problem, it is right here:

    “Over time, these melanges of races and creeds have intermingled, forming new alliances and factions thirsty to prove themselves or to avenge their predecessors. An army or garrison from a Sigmarite city may include a dozen different kinds of footsoldiers, knightly orders, beast riders, proven militia and city guard, all with their own uniforms, traditions and rivalries. .”

    It does mention other races as to imply it is not just humans in the ranks of the Freeguilds, but the problem comes back that it is still humans that make up the ranks of the Freeguilds. It but also shows the same influences of what the other description in the Grand Alliance Order of it being Empire and nothing else. That the entirety of humanity follows the Freeguild guidelines as a military force with the same structure. In context, this does not seem like a problem, but when looking at the other factions out there it is. We have seen various factions for the Aelves and Durdian show up with their culture and society shown in both models and fiction that is different from their Azyrian counterparts, with the exception of the Daughters of Khaine. But with the Overlords, Deepkin, and the Fyreslayers they survived the Age of Chaos when Sigmar shut the gates and the people who made in Azyr before the gate close are what are the Free Peoples.

    This could be a problem with the nature of Games Workshop and how they make new factions for Age of Sigmar, but the problem for the Free Guild that does not represent what it says in the Core Book when it mentions other races being a part of it on the table. The only models for the for the Freeguild are the Empire models again.

    The problem that I saw is that the Free People encompass different races and factions, but so does the Freeguild. That the Freeguild is the city-state armies, but only made up of human despite what it says in the Core Book and elsewhere. That humanity and any cultures of humanity gets nicely put into the Freeguilds as if they have nothing better to do with them and have to fit with the structure of the Freeguilds.  Despite what the Free People are supposed to be and the factions of the Devoted and the Ironweld Arsenal being a thing.

     

    So, what is the solution to this problem? I have thought of a few, but overall, I would like to see other people think of to fix this problem.

    • Like 1

    Souls Wars by Josh Reynolds

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Sheriff said:

    so i just finished it and here are my take-aways. For context, its the first aos book i've read. 

      Reveal hidden contents
    • Glymsforge and the humans and dwarfs etc in it were super interesting. I only wish they were the focus of the story more. It was sad to see the humans treated as liabilities and burdensome fools rather than the able-bodied fighters of dead-things that we know they are and can be. There was a bit where an interesting warrior priesty dude (the vulture?) showed up and i was like "aaaah, up til now the author has made me think humans are useless deliberately, and now this guy will shatter that expectation!" ... nope, he was dead the next page. 
    • I loved the little glimpses into other 'factions' perspectives and POV of the quake etc, like the slaanesh dude chapter. caught me off-guard with the story (thinking he would be a continuing part of the story but then wasn't), in a good way. would have been nice to get an equivalent chapter for a grot shaman POV of what was going on with the quake etc. (i appreciate its an order versus death book though)
    • I thought the cats were going to be tzeentch spies, and I'm sad i was wrong!
    • Stormcast characters other than Balthas and Pharus were boring and inter-changeable - even at the end I couldn't remember which was which. I'd heard the criticisms about aos books before which was part of why i'd never bothered reading them (they're almost all stormcast books), and sadly i've discovered this is still true. Regardless, I enjoyed the book overall. 
    • I wanted Pharus to win, was a good character. so was sad to see him get vaporized forever. Malenrek seems cool too, hope to read more about him at some point. What 'unit' was Pharus in the Nighthaunt army? Was he another Knight of Shrouds? I get the feeling he was something else but I couldn't figure it out. Loved the description of him and his armour, and how he feels when wearing it. Basically all the Pharus POV bits were great. 
    • Loved the dancing ghoul jester too -  i wanna hear his backstory! i reckon he pissed off nagash somehow and this is a great punishment.

    I think i will read another aos book, but will pick very carefully, prioritizing the non-stormcast ones, or only the 'best' ones like this one. 

     

    Spoiler

    Pharus become a Knight of Shrouds. 

     

    Souls Wars by Josh Reynolds

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Kaleb Daark said:

    was he actually be Morr who was the old world's god of death?

     Nagash slew him in End times and took on his portfolio.

    Morrda is referenced as an ancestor figure and ancient god that "yet remained whole" after he defied Nagash.  I think the names seem similar but are not the same god. 

     

    On a different note, Soul Wars pretty much squash the notion of "Deathcast" and all of that nonsense. 

    • Like 1

    Souls Wars by Josh Reynolds

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted

    34 minutes ago, Deepkin said:

    Ah youre right, I mixed em up with a different stormhost. I think it may have been the Tempest Lords whom venerate what is basically Myrmidia with slightly different spelling (Mirmidih, the Lady of War or something. Dont have the armybook in front of me.)

    Still, the cult of Morr was strong in Tilea and Estalia, and since Balthasar Gelt and Thyruss Gorman are here, makes sense that there would be others from the Old World as well.

    I would assume so, but it is not just people from the Old World. The Anvils of Heldenhammer section in the newest battletome mentions this:

    Quote

    Each Anvils of Heldenhammer hails from a time lost to the mist of memory - they were not rescued from the threshold of death fighting Chaos, but  were already long slain at the time they were plucked from the Mortal Realms.

    For the Tempest Lords, it says they from Hyishian dynasties of warrior aristocrats that worships armoured high priestess,  Mirmidh, She Who Rules. That sounds like closer to what you were thinking about. 

    Souls Wars by Josh Reynolds

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted · Edited by ShadowSwordmaster

    10 hours ago, Deepkin said:

    Tyros Gorgus is implied to be Thyruss Gorman, hence his tsundere friendship with Gelt/Arum. Gorman was the Supreme Patriarch of the Colleges of Magic before Gelt, and the head of the Bright College.

    The Anvils of the Heldenhammer are also noted to venerate what is essentially Myrmidia reborn, and so it's not a stretch to believe many of the Anvils are former Myrmidians from Tilea, Estalia, and the Empire.

    2

    That is a stretch. These people come from various places in the Mortal Realms and from the world that was. The name that is mention is Morrda, which is awful close to Morr and backs it up with the mention of death and ravens.

    • Like 1

    Souls Wars by Josh Reynolds

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted

    2 hours ago, EccentricCircle said:

    Are there many stormcast who are confirmed to be reincarnations of Old World characters? I'd assumed they were all heroes from the age of myth before reading this book.

    In other words, who is still kicking around, albeit with a different name?

    Bathlas is the only one we know so far. 

    • Like 1

    Souls Wars by Josh Reynolds

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted

    44 minutes ago, Nin Win said:

    I finished the book.

    I enjoyed it more than I thought I would.  Because it's linked to a game starter set, I was worried it was going to be a Dark Imperium style crass sales pitch passed off as a novel.  It wasn't.

    My favourite thing about the more sympathetic view of the death allegiance and Nagash is that it's held in tension with their murderous attack on a city.  All this talk about justice and then the creatures of death will kill any and every living thing.  It's so much better when an antagonist actually believes they are right rather than just wanting some trivial self aggrandising thing and not really believing in what they are doing. 

    The Stormhosts chosen for the story were probably the right picks.  Had the Hallowed Knights been around it would have tilted things and made the death argument look way, way more valid as responding to Nagash's charges of inustice with chants of faith would have made Nagash seem way more reasonable than he is.  The more reasoned and introspective response across the board was probably needed.

    This story shows that you can have two sides be fundamentally right, but also smart without having one side appear to be dumb. 

    • Like 3

    Souls Wars by Josh Reynolds

    in Age of Sigmar Discussions

    Posted

    11 hours ago, Clewz said:

    I'm early into it so far but I'm quite intrigued how Sigmar regards Nagash as his brother and reminisces about the times it was just them fighting the godbeasts etc together

    It's a recurring theme throughout the book. I finished last night and there is a lot more there. 

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