PlayerOfGames
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So, what about Vanguard Wing? While no longer a competitive powerhouse, maybe it is still good for a fun/semi-competitive list?
For example, consider this Battalion:
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins, 1 x Stormsurge Trident (100)
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins, 1 x Stormsurge Trident (100)
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins, 1 x Stormsurge Trident (100)
10 x Judicators, Boltstorm Crossbows, 2 x Shockbolt Bows (320)
10 x Liberators, Warhammers, 2 x Grandhammers (200)
Vanguard Wing (140)
Judicators: Unit of 10 to make the battalion bonus worthwhile. Crossbows: more shots = more 6’s to-hit = more bonus damage. Shockbolt Bow: generally considered better than the Thunderbolt Crossbow. In this case even more so, since the X-Bow has no to-hit roll and hence cannot generate additional damage, while on a 6 to-hit, each of the D6 hits from the Bow does 2 damage.
Liberators: With dual hammers, each 6 to-hit generates 2 hits, each wounding on 3+ and doing 2 damage. For them, the battalion bonus damage is harder to harvest than for the Judicators, since they preferably have to get into combat with a successful charge (Gavriel?), they should all be in combat and they have to be wholly within 16” of Prosecutors after charge and pile-in … hence taking a unit of 5 (equipment of choice) to save 100 points is also an option.
As it is, the battalion above covers 2 Battlelines and is 960 points, leaving 1040 for heroes and other units, for example:
Gavriel Sureheart (100)
Knight-Incantor (140)
Knight-Venator (120)
Knight-Azyros (100)
5 x Judicators, Skybolt Bows, 1 x Shockbolt Bow (160)
10 x Evocators (400)
Plus 20 for endless spell of choice.
With Gavriel, Azyros, 10 Judicators, Liberators and Evocators in the Celestial Realm. Of course, changing the Venator to something else is also an option.
As the army has a lot of shooting, the plan would be to remove/reduce screens with ranged attacks and bring in the CC units in the following turn. It also has some mobility in the form of Prosecutors and Venator for objective-grabbing.
Now that Scions is automatic, a unit of 6 to 9 Hammer-Prosecutors could also be worth considering, due to their 3d6 charge range. Sure, they cannot take on a heavy force on their own, but they can attack weaker/weakened units, support heroes, war machines and such …
What do you think?-
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Wow, didn't know that ... That's HUGE.
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3 hours ago, FPC said:
Quick thought on the Changeling slinging the Pendulum out there....what happens if you cast an Endless Spell and it's already on the table? Would there be 2, or are they one use only?
In matched play, you can have only one model of an endless spell on the table (see GHB). If you want to re-cast the spell, the model has to be removed from play first (usually by dispelling it or by it moving over a table edge). Outside of matched play you can cast it as long as you have models that are not yet on the table (Malign Sorcery).
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10 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:
Played a game last night with my endless spells galore list:
Guant summoner with familiars: General with arcane sacrifice.
Lord of Change with Gryph-feather charm
Herald of Tzeetch
The Blue Scribes
The Changling
2 * 10 Pink Horrors
10 Tzaangors
2* 10 Brimestone Horrors
Malign Sorcery up the wazzoo: Pendulum, Balewind Vortex, Chromatic Cogs, Geminids, Gnashing Jaws and Shackles
Actually played really well, against a reasonably competitive storm-cast list . Ended up wiping them off the board by the end of turn 4, they really don't like that many mortal wounds.
My favourite play had to be The Changling DDing a 11 to cast the pendulum down there battle line turn one. 15 mortal wounds done in total, but could have been ever better (6 units hit for D6 wounds each).
Ended up using both the Vortex and Cogs on the Guant summoner most turns (with arcane sacrifice), so it was throwing out 4 spells a turn with +2 to cast (familiar and LoC command) and +15" range and rained death everywhere thanks to the nice offensive realm spells (Ghur). Couldn't recommend this comb enough if your using realms and the Summoner with familiars is the best caster to do it with in my opinion (effective 9 wounds make's it hard to shift).
10 Tzaangors did great too throwing out about 2 mortal wounds a turn before taking out a full unit of Evocators followed by a mounted mage (can't recall the name).
Impressive display from the Changeling ?... I would not count on it to always work like this, though. Probably your opponent was unaware of the danger. He could have deployed half his army in the Celestial Realm, and deploy the rest in a more widespread zig-zag formation. Then the pendulum would probably only hit 2 or 3 units. A Knight-Incantor can auto-dispel it, of course ... I guess the Changeling died immediately after this heroic act?
Gaunt Summoner with familiars: actually, the attacker can choose if he wants to inflict damage on the Summoner or on the familiars...
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@ Yoshiya: For this list, I would choose:
General Trait: neither the Shaman nor the Ogroid are great wizards (and at 1000 points you will probably encounter only one or two wizards), so the magic-related stuff is less useful. The Shaman will babysit the Enlightened, while the Ogroid stays with the main force. Hence I would make the Ogroid general and give him the Cult Demagogue trait, giving every unit near him (including himself) +2 bravery. Really useful on bravery 5 units.
Spells: requiring a 9+ to cast (28% chance without buffs), I would only take Firestorm on a Gaunt Summoner with familiars and Arcane Sacrifice or on a Lord of Change. For the Shaman, I would take Fold Reality... at 1000 points bringing back several Enlightened can have a huge impact. For the Ogroid, Infusion Arcanum is the go-to spell to make him really scary in combat; Shield of Fate might also be an Ok choice.
Artefacts: Either one could take the Gryph-Feather Charm for -1 to hit on all incoming attacks (melee and shooting, -2 vs. shooting with Look Out Sir!) and +1" movement. If you really, really want to take the Firestorm spell, consider taking Souldraught for the Shaman; together with his Elixir, that gives you 2 decent chances of casting the spell (plus you can use Destiny Dice for casting, of course). The Ogroid could take Timeslip Pendant for one free melee phase or Paradoxical shield for a "sort of" 3+ save. Of course there are tons of other items in Malign Sorcery ...
PS: remember to take along some additional Tzaangors and some Brimstone horrors in case you succeed with the Shaman/Ogroid native spells!
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16 hours ago, Yoshiya said:
Heroes
Tzaangor Shaman - 180pts (General)
Ogroid Thaumaturge - 180pts (for the fire theme)
Battleline
20 Kairic Acolytes - 160pts (not sure on weapon make up)
20 Kairic Acolytes - 160pts
Units
3 Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs - 160pts
Wychfire Coven - 120pts
40pts spare for spells
Personally, I would not take a Battalion at 1000 points, as it eats up too much percentage of your total points. At 2000, it is much more viable.
I have some doubts about running almost only Acolytes as they are not durable, and their damage output is rather low. Against 4+ save, it takes the shooting of 8 Acolytes on average to cause a wound (with to-hit bonus). Close combat is similar.
The Enligthened are about to get a nice buff: 1 more spear attack, while points are rumored go down to 140 per 3. You could then build something like this:
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
Ogroid Thaumaturge (180)
10 x Tzaangors (180)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened (280)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)If you do not have it already, consider getting the Battleforce Tzeentch Arcanites Changecult box. Apart from the Ogroid, it has all the models mentioned above (plus 10 more Tzaangors), and it is really great value.
Going to 2000, you could double the size of the Tzaangor and Acolytes units and add the Wychfire Coven, which leaves you 540 points to play with.
Equipping Kairic Acolytes: As with other units, take all the special stuff (Cursed Glaives, Scroll of Dark Arts, Vulcharc). You can also give special stuff to the Kairic Adept, and you can give more than one option to the same model (e.g., Kairic Adept with Cursed Glaive and Scroll of Dark Arts). Paired Blades vs. Blade + Shield: with the current warscroll I would prefer Blade+Shield (also looks better in my opinion :) ). Apparently, the Tzaangor Warscroll will change such that you get the shield effect as long as at least one model has a shield. If the same change happens to Acolytes in the future, some Paired Blades could be included.
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8 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:
I've just noticed another minor buff for Tzaangors, Shields work for all wounds on the unit as long as you have at least one Shield (so don't have to be assigned to the shield bearer), so one shield is enough and everyone else might as well have paired blades.
Absolutely, I think lots of min Tzaangors with all the casters that have spells that produce free models will be very competitive: Orgoid, Mangister, Shaman, Fateweaver, and blue scribes for rerolls to cast, maybe changing if your feeling tricksy. Round off with Pinks and endless spells to taste. Tonnes of mortal wounds, healthy combat threat and up to 4 free annoyance units a turn. Would not be fun to face.
On a less competitive note, I'm looking at fun build for a game this week:
Guant summoner with familiars: General with arcane sacrifice.
Lord of Change with Gryph-feather charm
Herald of Tzeetch
The Blue Scribes
The Changling
2 * 10 Pink Horrors
10 Tzaangors
2* 10 Brimestone Horrors
Malign Sorcery up the wazzoo: Pendulum, Balewind Vortex, Chromatic Cogs, Geminids, Gnashing Jaws and Shackles
Hoping to clog up the mid field with endless spells and pink horrors (who I don't mind taking some mortal wounds) while the characters blast mortal wounds like it's no tomorrow. Vortex (probably for the Herald) and Sacrafice very important to make sure I can get spells across the storm of spells that the middle of the table will hopefully be. Brimstones obviously there to screen and Changling hoping to get a nasty Pendulum across enemy lines.
Is this complete madness or will I just get wiped off the board (mostly by my own spells)?
Why the Changeling? If you take a Magister instead, you can upgrade the Brimstones to Blue Horrors.
As the Magister creates Chaos Spawns and the Blues generate Brimstones, this would add some resilience to your list ...
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All true, but it is still only one shot per Skyfire. And if they shoot something with -1 to hit on it, six of them only do 1D3 MW and 1D3 normal damage on average.
As you mentioned Spirit Hosts : for 480 points you get 12 of them, each doing 6 attacks. That's an average of 12 MW per combat phase.
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31 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:
The change to “Natural 6” is actually pretty awesome ...
Hmm, I am not impressed... for 6 Skyfires that's on average 1D3 MW @24" range per shooting phase (and of the 9 DD, on average there are 1.5 sixes...). Add to this ~2D3 normal damage @rend -1 ... And that unit costs 440 points (or maybe 400 ?).
Maybe it's better to regard their shooting as a bonus and see their mobility plus close combat (with re-rolls) as the main feature.
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35 minutes ago, relic456 said:
FYI, Tzaangors were changed with the new BoC rules, new warscrolls are up on GW
- Tzaangors now have the Beasts of Chaos and Brayherd keywords in addition to all the others
- Tzaangor Skyfires/Enlightened don't have Preternatural Enhancement anymore, it's an ability on the Tzaangor Shaman now, is now wholly within 12" instead of within 9"
- Tzaangor Skyfires Judgement from Afar is now on unmodified hits of 6
- Tzaangor Enlightened have 3 spear attacks now
- Tzaangor Shamans can drink their elixir at any point in the hero phase now instead of at the start
- Tzaangor Shaman's Boon of Mutation now adds a model to an existing unit instead of making a new one
After the new Stormcast Battletome, I expected some of these changes, but I thought they would come with the next DoT Battletome (effect ranges changed from "within" to "wholly within", effects that trigger on 6+ changed to unmodified 6)...
Tzaangor Shaman: the elixir got worse, as its re-roll now affects only the additional spell, not both spells...
Tzaangor Skyfires: are they worth 220 points now? First "Look out, Sir!", now this ... I think their cost should be reduced significantly (maybe 180?)
Only bright side is the Enlightened bonus spear attack...
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On 9/5/2018 at 11:55 AM, Magnus The Blue said:
Anyone got any thoughts or ideally experience dealing with Nagash?
Maybe this:
Kairos
Gaunt Summoner on Disc (for speed), with Rune Blade of Chamon for -3 rend on the Warptongue Blade
If you make the charge with the Gaunt (use DD, or CP to re-roll charge if needed), use DD for to-hit + to-wound rolls, hope that Nagash fails his 6+ save (5/6 chance), then roll 2D6 with at least one 5+ (5/9 chance) and use Kairos' ability if needed to change one die to a 6. With 46.3 % probability, that's one dead Nagash ?
You can also use Arcane Transformation for +1 attack on the Warptongue Blade (cast by a wizard outside the enemies dispell-radius) to double your chances if your DDs are good enough ... if it can kill Nagash, that "Gaunt Missile"(TM) can kill almost everything in the game
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11 hours ago, Black Blade said:
On a charge he is averaging 1.8 wounds against a 4+ save unit.
That number is wrong. Taking rend -1 on the sword into account, the Lord Celestant deals 1.98 wounds against 4+ save on the charge. If he also uses his CA (the main reason to take him), that goes up to 2.52 wounds against 4+ save.
Add to this an average of 1.75 MW during the ranged phase from his ability (as it is an ability and not a ranged attack he can also use it after running).
Plus of course the +1 to hit in CC that he also gives to other units ... not that bad, if you ask me!
If you "want" a pathetic Stormcast hero that truly sucks, look no further than the Knight-Questor!?
Apparently, he seemed too good to GW, so he even just got a 20 points increase ...
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1 hour ago, GlanceOnASix said:
First of all this book is amazing.
Well, when I picked up the new Battletome several weeks ago, I gave it a cursory glance and was so frustrated that I put it aside for the time being:
- Battalions castrated: removed the good rules and kept the crappy rule for a slight reduction in points. Best Battalion only uses new models (Cleansing Phalanx of course)
- Stormhosts: either ******, or forces you to take more or less crappy General trait and Artifact
- Support ranges: a lot got changed from "within X" " to "completely within X" "
- Almost none of the changes I was hoping for came along
- Soul Wars box with sub-strength units (again!). They could at least have made it such that you end up with full-strength units when you also buy the Tempest of Souls box ... well, at least you get some Greatmaces...
Only a few days ago I picked it up again and started to see the positive changes more and more...
Regarding the missing balance between Sequitors and Liberators - it would have been incredibly easy to do it right, I think:
- Exchange the weapon profiles Stormsmite Maul <-> Warhammer and Tempest Blade <-> Warblade
- Change Liberator max unit size to 20 for 340 (without the old Vanguard Wing, no one will take 30 Libs over 20 Sequitors with all those Greatmaces for 520 vs. 400 pts)
- limit Greatmaces to 2 per 5 models (one of those 2 can be carried by Sequitor Prime), would also fit the contents of the Sequitor box ...
So you have the choice: cheaper unit with better base weapon vs. more expensive unit with more special weapons and fancier rules
With these changes (and the changes in support ranges, especially Celestant on foot) they could even have kept the teleport rule for Vanguard Wing (maybe make them reappear more than 5" from enemy units).
Well, "could", "would" ... didn't happen! So let us make the best of what we got, we have to live with it for some time now!?
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Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion
in Lumineth Realm-Lords
Posted
My thoughts / speculations / hopes so far:
There will be two main factions, first led by Teclis:
Second led by Tyrion:
Aetherquartz: I expect some once-per battle effect, with the effect depending on the unit and/or the subfaction/element
Weapon profiles: standard units hitting on 3s (elves are accurate), wounding on 4s (most elves don't hit hard) with -1 rend (weapons forged from great materials and/or with magic) would be nice, with elite units wounding on 3s and multiple attacks and/or more than 1 damage
Units I'd like to see:
Light infantry
Elite infantry
Cavalry
Named characters:
Standard characters:
... and of course repeater bolt throwers
. That's a lot to hope for, but GW had literally Ages (of Sigmar) to prepare that new faction 😁