[The Age of Sigmar lore and novels thread 2]

2 hours ago, Overread said:

One issue with AoS lore is that bits of it are really hazy as to what is and isn't known. 

The World that Was is technically thousands of years past now. The Age of Myth was thousands of years ago; after an age of wilderness; mythological cilvization building, age of Chaos and god knows what other spells. In theory nothing really should have survived that long that isn't very powerful or hidden by those who are very powerful. 

 

I think the big disconnect is that GW launched into AoS and didn't really do much for the Age of Myth beyond a few, well, myths. So it "feels" very short on detail when its actually when most factions we know now rose up in power originally. A relic from back then should be exceptionally rare to the point of almost being impossible. 

 

I think the first story does feel like the author didn't quite have the best grasp of the lore considering that medusa transformation is mentioned as a spell. 

But there's also lore gaps, eg GW hasn't really covered the concept of mages in training within the army. Witch Aelves might have a spell or two; but an actual in-training mage is different to them and yet we don't really know. We know that those who rise in power typically become queens and Warlocks hold quite considerable power of their own (if part shackled). 

Heck when you get into the second story there's a good feeling of "this is the Drow" style of society that the writer has gone for, which is likely making up for the fact that we don't actually know how DoK society functions outside of the military arm of the religion. 

It might not be an excuse or explanation that pleases everyone here, but there are a few ways of IC / in-universe explaining the difference. For example, in day to day modern England some people might vaguely know that there was once an historical period called "The Golden Age of Islam". A handful of those might vaguely be aware of what the Caliphate looked like and how it differs from modern misuses of the world and its interactions with bits of the wider world, and then one or two are Historians / Doctors of Medieval Islam or similar. And in the Middle Ages, most peasants/soldiers would have had a cosmology/vague understanding of the spiritual story of the world, a fair chunk of them might have known that beyond that allegory there were other facts and histories they don't know. Then monks and gentry and the likes would have had a more thorough understanding of world history and the sciences/theology and the like. Then there's Francis of Assissi trying to compile all knowledge like its going out of fashion.
Similiarly in AoS, it could be that to most of the Realms the idea that there was a World-that-Was isn't even an idea that they entertain. A handful might know that it existed and that some beings - Sigmar, Nagash, the Seraphon, appear to have some connection to it. Then there will be scholars, or those with connections to the gods (the Aelven nations and enclaves, a handful of the most learned Azyrites, weird collectors of curios and relics, etc) who actually have some vague understanding of parts of what the surviving relics can tell and what the gods remember - they know the elves of old were masters of ornate cavalry, or that Arkhan cursed Eletharion at the end of all things, or that there was a great city of moving streets called Altdorf where towers of magic shone like beacons.

 

Also, with the Daughters of Khaine I always got the idea that there is only the military arm of the religion - that they are effectively Templars/Crusader States (in a more pop culture sense than historical sense). There might be other Khainites, and indeed there might be a "civilian district" of many of the Temples where Aelven and Human Khainites live and work, but fundamentally all there is to the Daughters of Khaine society is the rituals and prayers and training of the Witch Aelves and their allies.

[The Rumour Thread]

3 hours ago, KriticalKhan said:

I don't understand the argument that Bonereapers are meant to be the "new" Tomb Kings. Other than being undead there aren't any similarities between them at all. Has GW ever stated that's what they were meant to be? As far as I can tell it's an idea only purported by the fanbase.

I don't think we're ever getting new Tomb Kings (outside of the Old World, and even that's an If), but saying Bonereapers are their successor is like saying Deepkin are the High Elf successors because they're both elves that interact with water.

I think the successor argument comes from the thematic elements they utilise - they are visually akin to legions of skeletons, like the Tomb Kings, and are also large, humanoid constructs, which again were a major element of the Tomb King's unique style - particularly over the more "fleshy" and traditional Undead of the Vampire Counts. Add into this some of the specifics - they have a priestly caste dedicated to the creation and maintenance of the Bonereapers, who are distinct from the military commanders (which seems like a very deliberate nod to the Liche Priests, and again sets them apart from the Legions of Nagash where animator and commander are frequently one and the same) - they are supported by a large construct monster (like the Tomb Scorpion/Bone Giant/Sphinxes) and by a Catapult that can fire Screaming Skulls (this one being perhaps the most obvious nod to the Tomb Kings). Then there are a few of the design nods, like their scenery piece being a monolith/stele marking out the edges/key points of Bonereaper territory, and the use of cartoushes as a way of writing "language" ritually.

They are definitely not just an AoS version of Fantasy Egyptian Mummies and Skeletons, and for fans of Tomb Kings I can see how the comparison to the Tomb Kings seems entirely made up and unsubstantiated. Particularly as they lack a lot of the key design notes that made the Tomb Kings quite so unique - there's no light cavalry or chariots, and perhaps most obviously there's no iconic skeleton bowmen. However, I think dismissing the similarities as "they are both just Undead" is also a bit too simplistic. For me personally, it comes down to the use of the word "successor" - using it to mean "these are the New Tomb Kings" is obviously not going to work, and does a disservice to what is unique about the Bonereapers and what was unique about the Tomb Kings. But the son is not the father. Just as the Empire was not the same beast as the Tribes that Sigmar united, just as the Lumineth are not the High Elves, and just as the Byzantine Empire was not the Imperial Roman Empire, the Bonereapers are a successor - a group that takes certain parts of what came before but into a new age for a new purpose.

 

(Also as an aside, I think that a big part of the design decisions for the Idoneth were a slight joke/reference to two seperate bits of WFB lore - they are in lore quite literally High Elf successors; Teclis created them to be exactly that, and even now, having fled dad's blinding wrath and made themselves into something new, the myths they were taught of Dragon Princes and Elven Cavalry still forms the very heart of how the Idoneth make war, and so they are clearly a nod to the High Elves that were (particularly the "sea" Elves, back when that distinction mattered). But they are also, I think, a nod to the endless jokes and lore easter eggs about Fishmen in WFB. Sea Elves who are also the mysterious Fish People in the deep trenches. And that amuses me more than perhaps it should)

[The Rumour Thread]

New rumour engine thing is almost certainly the Arachni-Rig for the Van Saars

Its their Brute and the Goliath finally got their Brute when Chains came out - has the same modern armour design, and gun limbs 

[Question about the “red baptism”]

If you really wanted a diverse force, there are other races in the Realms who, until we get confirmation otherwise, one could presume have the ability to serve Chaos. Humans are by far the most common, and there appear to be a fair number of duardin and ogors, and no few aelves and gargants.
Based on the gargant kit, halflings still exist in the mortal realms, so maybe one has become a Blood Warrior somehow? I know they are more resistant to Chaos than most but that doesn't mean that during the Age of Chaos some small communities didn't survive by falling. In the Idoneth book there's references to a bunch of races - whose to say that your warband hasn't managed to recruit a strange envoy or exile from the merwynn or the kelpdar? Or one of the other strange races or cultures only briefly mentioned in the AoS lore.

[The Rumour Thread]

18 hours ago, Icegoat said:

Why do I get the feeling this heralds the end of the age of men in order factions. Aos true identity i think has been revealed a land of aelf and duardin and orruk with no humans in sight except those turned by sigmar or chaos. I think this herald the ends of the cities of sigmar and begins the empires of the aelves. It looks like the last few remaining freeguild kits will be going soon. 

And this is based on the centring of aelven factions in a campaign book named after an aelven demigod which we know will place a big emphasis on the growing schism and revelations between the greatest figures in the Aelven patheon? This seems like a stretch.

Don't get me wrong, I am sad that we don't see more Free Cities stuff, but it seems to me that rushing to announce the Death of Humanity in an aelf centred book that is only the first in a series, and that might well be followed by a new edition, seems... premature at best, and deliberately antagonistic at worst. For all we know, the rules for the Free City we are getting in this book will breathe new life into the Freeguild tactics. For all we know, AoS 3 will be kicked off by a Stormvault being opened filled with new, more arcanely powerful muskets and pikes that leads to a renovated Freeguild/Ironweld range.

Two years ago, would anyone have believed there was much hope for the classic Night Goblins, given what we had seen happen to the bulk of the Orks that were? Would anyone have believed that we would have a whole army of gargants with some of the most creative and unique mythology in the setting?

Trust me, there are few people who want to see a true return of the Devotees of Sigmar more than me - but in their absence there is no need to try and pick up the slack in proselytizing doom and gloom.

[Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣]

So I finally got my hands on the book after some pre-order delays, and boy I thought that I could not have been more hype/excited than I was waiting for it. I appear to have been wrong!

The lore is stand-out to me, honestly some of the best and most naturally written of the Age of Sigmar Battletomes - the myths of the trials of Behemat (the tsunami, the fear of the trees) were great, not only for giving the gargants an almost classical mythology/dark fairy tale feel, but also for a new look at Gorkamorka as an "individual" rather than just a force or a greenskin philosophy. Also, I believe the reference to a squig godbeast was new to this book, right? That was an amusing anecdote to stumble across whilst reading!

Loving seeing the gargant models, both base and converted/kit-bashed, in this thread - it is really helping me keep the keen up! Has anyone managed to give the narrative battleplan in the tome a try yet?

[Warhammer Community, your helpful friend *]

I agree that is is in many ways a long way removed from the very old-school website with old White Dwarf variant army lists republished, the "Dok's Konvershun Klinic" articles and the like, with the armies all laid out on one page with artwork, etc, and it felt like the online version of popping into the store and chatting to the manager who had been in the hobby for years whilst they were prepping a special Rynn World themed event, and so on.

But GW has grown far beyond that small, mold-press in the basement, punksatire vibe and is a global company with expectations and customers across the world. It's very unlikely that the folksy, cluttered website of old would have been servicable for GW in its current form. And as much as I miss that kind of nostalgic, comfortable, website, I understand the business decisions to change it.

Part of that growth involves, unfortunately, a corporate energy and a slick, slightly cynical website and upselling vibe. 

However, the addition of Warhammer TV and Warhammer Community and the end of Warhammer Visions and return of a monthly White Dwarf show that the company is trying to engage more than they used to rather than just advertise. Is this done in no small part because they know people that care and feel talked to and not talked at will buy more than people who don't? Sure, but then again its hard to believe that the Games Workshop of 5 years ago would have solo-play articles to try and help in lockdown, or fluff pieces about a guy painting a Space Marine in colours picked by his child, or web comics. 

I'm not saying that they are perfect - they are not. But I suppose I'm wondering what exactly it is that you want from Warhammer Community? As a fan of their games, if I want to actually engage with a community I have my social gaming group, and online the internet has really taken off - if I want to talk about AoS I can come here where the community is so big that I can't even keep up with all the posts in the small "side" forums like Narrative and Warcry, nevermind big discussions. If I want to talk about 40k, I could go to the B&C - if I just want min maxing suggestions, I can hold my breath and glance at 1d4chan or Dakka. Even the specialist games have big communities over at Yaktribe. YouTube is overflowing with people doing more conversions and painting suggestions than the Warhammer Community team could ever hope to do. From Pete the Wargamer to Duncan's Painting Academy to Black Magic Craft to...

Warhammer Community is arguably more two way than their other websites - this is not a place that you only go to buy toy soldiers, its a place where they try and give back lore and comic strips and articles.

 

It is not perfect, and it is advertising. But in an age where GW cannot do forums or the like as well as their fans can, what do you want it to be instead?

[The Rumour Thread]

5 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

But do Necrons have a gender?

Most do - though none have a biological s*x (no idea if that word is still filtered on forums)

Though I wouldn't be surprised if some of the more... transcendent-themed Crypteks have decided they are "beyond" those concepts

[The Rumour Thread]

Joining King Brodd in a fairly large order 

Battletome, Warscroll Cards, Mega (and Coasters) ordered

As well as an Ogre Blood Bowl Team to practice skin tone on

[The Rumour Thread]

9 minutes ago, Dracovski said:

I'm kinda hoping for the new Warcry set, but guess I'm one of the few 😅

You see, I'm in two minds about this
On the one hand, I want the set to come out and people to have access to it and to start playing around with it before everyone's wallets get a little tighter come Christmas
On the other hand, as my partner is probably going to be kind enough to get me one for Christmas, the earlier it comes out, the longer its going to be sat at the back of the wardrobe, taunting me  

[Hello!]

Welcome!

Aside from the true Children of Chaos, what are your other armies?

[Is There Any Evidence For Vampirates]

So my creativity has stalled and I need to kick myself back into working on a number of projects, including my Kurnothi, but this was a vague idea I was working on that was very much Vampirates/Luthor Harkon/Zombie Pirates inspired with an AoS twist.

Hopefully at the very least this helps get the more creative souls who are itching to start work on a ghost fleet a bit of a push/some inspiration.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lgHstU7MjqJwa6Z8lAnqGUPqYZYhkjHtRQgytHJLhjM/edit?usp=sharing

 

(I may end up doing a thread similar to my Kurnothi thread in the Narrative section if people want to see this developed further/when my creativity returns - curse 2020's Balck Death theme!)

[Beginner trying to find an army]

If you want tough, elite or elite-ish infantry focused armies with a focus on killy or magical heroes and little to no shooting, 
of the Armies you have suggested it seems like the Ossiarch Bonereapers would be a good fit for you - only 1 shooting unit (and a big centre piece at that), with decent line infantry and cavalry to form a tough core to the army. Their terrain, artillery, monster, Arkan, Mortarch, and Nagash give you a range of big centrepiece models to choose from, however as I understand it there is a bit of a learning curve to the army - not an insurmountable one, but if that doesn't seem like something you want to do whilst also learning the game, 

My suggestion would be to second the people suggesting Ogor Mawrtribes. Their base unit are tanky, hungry brawlers, and you have a wide range of specialist units and monsters - and could even go for the Beastclaw Raiders style of play and play nothing but centrepiece models - monsters supporting monsters - if you only wanted to paint up a handful of models. (If you want to wait a month or so, its looking like the Sons of Behemat will also scratch this itch)

[Female model representation in Age of Sigmar]

1 hour ago, Yondaime said:

I dont get if the problems is female models per se (female heroes/characters/lore)  or the lack of female units (aka eldar howling banshees)

If the problem is the lore, there are a lot of cool female character atm in aos lore (even some god tier models)

if the problem is the lack of units, DOK is an entire female army, SCE have some female models, cities has a lot of female only units too

I think AOS is really diverse as a setting, MUCH more than WHFB, there is no need to push more diversiy.

 

I just want to leave total freedom to the authors creativity, without telling them "this has to be X because diversity"

 

 

I broadly agree that AoS is doing better than when it started, I think the issue comes from a lot of those Cities units are... unnaturally gendered in a way that, when they are the only female models, feels weird.
The Daughters of Khaine's gimmick is that they are all women, and that's fine, but when they are the only army that have a strong female presence it looks an awful lot like the only way to join the fight as a woman is to join the LadyCult.
Similarly, the Cities units are often specifically grouped as gendered units - only women can be magical archers, and they cannot be line soldiers. Female wizards are morally dubious, and have some connection to the LadyCult army probably. 

Now I want to make it very clear that I do not think that these armies/units in and of themselves are bad or problematic or any other buzzwords or anything. I love the Daughters, and the Sisters of the Watch, and the Sorceresses - they are all cool. But I think if you want diversity not gimmicks, there needs to be options for women to do what the men are doing - the example of Stormcast is a perfect example.

I am not saying that there cannot be any male-only units, or that every unit needs to be 30% or more women or anything like that. Not every kit/army/unit needs to hit any quotas and I actually think that hard and fast ratios or quotas would be forced and would stifle the designers' creativity. 

However, I do not think there is anything wrong with hoping that GW continues to push towards women being "normal". Being a woman can still be a gimmick for things like Daughters of Khaine and the Sisters of the Watch (just like being a man can be a gimmick for the Fyreslayers), but for that gimmick to not feel hollow, there needs to be an acknowledgement that "woman" is not in and of itself a unique personality trait that sets you apart from the "default".

[Female model representation in Age of Sigmar]

18 minutes ago, Sartxac said:

I think that now this topic don't generate new opinions and seems the beginning of a bucle.

I think that most of the players wants more diversity but the diffence is how do this. I view two different positions, the people like me that wants new armies with specifical tematics and the people that want put diversity in the majour of the armies that now exist. 

I think you are probably right, but, in an attempt to keep the conversation going, and moving it away from gender and race essentialism/appeals to tradition/etc and all of the other loops people appear to be falling into, I'm going to try and suggest some ways GW could start the process of increasing diversity and we can see what people think.

From a practicality point, it is pretty obvious that for most existing armies - even before taking the lore into account - there is no easy way GW can justify overhauling the entire range to 50/50, or 70/30, or anything else, because it would involve discontinuing huge swathes of functional molds and completely redesigning them. Obviously there are times they seem willing to do this, at least a little - Slaves to Darkness, as people have pointed out, now have female-presenting faces in the Warriors of Chaos kit - but the revamp of those classic kits was very much the exception rather than the rule.

For these armies then, one-off characters and side games appears to be the way to go, and it is clear that GW themselves agree. For example, Warhammer Underworlds (if memory serves?) gave us our first female Stormcast, first female Ghoul, and also a female Nurgle Sorcerer, both of which (particularly the Stormcast, who was just a line trooper not some special commander) set the precedent/imply that it is the done thing for women/Nb folx to be part of those armies. Whilst not perfect, this does show willing and gets the models out there without needing to revamp units or worry about model variety/compatibility.  

There are a large number of factions that would be ripe for these sorts of nods and units. For example, a Cities of Sigmar warband that has a female Freeguild/Valya Dwarf warrior accompanying other soldiers of the Cities, or a Devoted of Sigmar army where some of the flagellants are women - after all, of all the human factions, the doomcult of willing martyrs are almost certainly one of the least likely to turn away willing zealots over something as trivial as sex or gender.

The side games also allow GW to show the place that models of an unexpected gender can fit into a traditionally gendered army. The upcoming Khainite Shadowstalkers (?) for Warcry are a great example of this; the Daughters of Khaine are traditionally, and will continue to be, fiercely matriarchal and in many cases actively anti-male, and the main bulk of their army will continue to reflect this. However, the assassins and scouts of the Warcry warband are operatives that are explicitly a step removed from the Cult of Khaine and so men can join their ranks.

There is no reason to assume that other factions couldn't do something similar. The Fyreslayers, for instance, are the most traditional and patriarchal of the Duradain factions that we know about in Age of Sigmar, and if players/GW want that to remain a key part of their identity whilst the Kharadron and Dispossessed begin to get more new female models, I don't think that is a bad thing. But maybe a Warcry warband could include a single female Lodge member - either a rebel young woman eager to be a Fyreslayer or else a Hearthkeeper or some more traditionally matriarchal role. Both are figures you are unlikely to see in the order of battle as seen in AoS, but in the chaotic fringes of the Allspire? Well, maybe an expedition couldn't be without a priestess of the hearth, or else even if it's a bit strange this one band couldn't afford to turn away a willing axe as they march into Chaos held lands. In this way the armies where part of the appeal is "lithe female knife fighters", "burly manly men" and the like can keep that identity, and what that identity is can still be explored by looking at what it isn't and what it pushes to the fringes as much as by looking at what it embraces.

 

Obviously the easiest place to increase representation is in new factions, which can be designed either actively for diversity, or if people are worried about forced diversity, new factions can be looked at as passively including better representation: one of the best things about the Mortal Realms as a setting is its step away from the Tolkien tropes of high fantasy and the real-world analogues of the World that Was, which means that a designer can ask "how could this be done" rather than "how was this traditionally done".

 

As for the vague question of ratios and deadlines and the like, I don't have an exact plan, and from my point of view I don't know if me having an exact plan or expecting GW to have one would be very helpful. GW is doing better and seems to want to keep doing so, and I am happy to let them continue for the moment. In an ideal world I would like to see some factions quite heavily overhauled - particularly the Freeguild/Cities of Sigmar and the Flesh Eater Courts - although by happy coincidence those are also the two factions that I think design wise should play catch up to their lore and potential in AoS even without considering gender. Some factions, such as the Orruks and the Seraphon, I am personally quite happy saying need no gender overhaul in terms of models - neither reproduce in a recognisably mortal or mammalian way and as fungus yobs and star lizards I don't need their models to look gendered at all (maybe throwing a few non-he/him pronouns into the fluff in the Seraphon tome though, but that's very much a "it'd be nice" bonus point thing.)
With the other factions, I think the exact ratios can and should vary a little between factions - maybe the Slaves to Darkness have fewer female models to keep the Conan-esque flavour, whilst Cities have more to emphasise the "all in it together citizen soldier" mentality. Maybe in aelves its 50/50ish, but in Dispossessed, its 80/20. I don't know. But I think its worth considering.

 

TL;DR: I think GW is doing a decent job but needs to keep going. Introducing these ideas and characters is more important than waiting for/wasting money on immediate range overhauls, so they should continue to take advantage of new factions and the side games to show this commitment. 

[Tyranids in Age od Sigmar]

In terms of flavour, I'm going to echo what people are saying above - for a "bring it all down" type of horde, the Beasts of Chaos (particularly the subfaction that are based on Morghur - can't remember the name of them off the top of my head...?) are a pretty good fit, although there is more of a low cunning vibe than a vast, insectile and alien intelligence. If its the ravenous horde you want, then Flesh Eater Courts is literally that, and somewhat breaks down into the same three "categories" of Tyranids (Gaunts - Ghouls / Warriors - Horrors and Similar / Nidzilla - Terrogheists and Zombie Dragons), and from what I've seen of my friend's army, plays in a similar way with your "Synapse" heroes and big beasties anchoring a large swarm. Finally, Skaven can also do the massive horde with big monsters, although in terms of lore flavour they are very much not Tyranid in a way that the other two are. They can do shooting better than the other two, if that's an important detail for you?

 

In terms of simply going for models or armies that look very "other" and strange, I'd say maybe a Tzeentch Arcanite army? Lots of model variety, and bounding horrors/flamers, strange masked acolytes, two headed raven beastmen, hulking ogres, and the mutilath vortex beast can greate a very colourful and varied force to look at on the tabletop. 

 

In terms of enjoying painting a mixture of flesh and "chitin" on a model, Spiderfang Grots from the Gloomspite Gitz get a large number of carapaced beasts alongside some softer flesh, on both the Araknarok Spider and the Grots themselves, and can do a horde of small, fast models around big monsters vibe even without dipping too much into Moonclan. As said above, Seraphon can do the scale patterns and also have a good array of impressive monsters to choose from. The Daughters of Khaine and, to a lesser extent certain Sylvaneth models and maybe something like the Ossiarch Bonereapers, can also give you strange textures to paint, often alongside soft flesh for that contrast.

[Advice Wanted: Carnosaur Conversions]

Hi there everyone, hoping some of this community's amazing creators and artists can help me out here!

I was wondering if anyone had tried, or had any ideas about how they would go about trying, converting a carnosaur (and indeed similar monsters and beasts) into undead/zombie/revenant versions of themselves?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Snowy Cities of Sigmar - any base in lore?]

Ghyran's seasons, at least in some places, are linked to Alarielle's form and mood and Aspect - when Alarielle mourns or grows restful, large swathes of Ghyran would be smothered in winter.

The altitude of some of the regions of the Realm/natural cycle/passing Ogor tribes and all manner of other factors could also create brief/Realm-wide/localised/permanent winters. As the Azyrites expand and build new outposts, towns, and cities (both with and without the blessing of the Everqueen) the likelihood of a winter themed city rises, and you can justify it however you want!

Maybe your city is built around a shrine/former nest of the Ur-Phoenix, and Frost Phoenixes live in large numbers, chilling the air. Maybe the city is in lands the Everqueen has not yet reclaimed, even with Nurgle pushed back, and so the "normal" seasons reign there, with winter taking up a fourth of the year. Maybe there is a Realmgate in the region that leads to Shyish, and the chill of Death has manifest in Ghyran as a cold, eternal winter. Maybe there is a local Winter God whose influence is waxing. 

If you have fallen in love with painting icy stuff, you should totally do it - there's a million ways to justify it, and pretty much all of them are cool and could lead to some really nice little additions to the story/conversions/list themes you go for.

[Kurnothi - The Path Towards a Fan Battletome]

So the last month has, due to life getting in the way, slightly less productive than it could have been.

However, my desire to keep chipping away at this project continues. What are people's thoughts on the idea of the "Blessings of the Wild Court" as a bit of the army's identity? Each warscroll having a "once per battle" ability that allows the unit to express itself in a sudden burst of cruel, fae magic?

[Kurnothi - The Path Towards a Fan Battletome]

Work has slowed due to travel, but... here is my draft warscroll for the Damhari Nobles.

 

Design Notes:

The Nobles are supposed to be fragile but dangerous cavalry - more fragile than most aelven cavalry currently in the game, to match the Kurnothi theme of running through the wilds at sport rather than "merely" at war.

The warscroll also has the test for my new concept to give the Kurnothi (and the infantry above) more punch and unique flavour - the Blessings of the Wild Court. Flavour wise, community magic that is intrinsically a part of being Kurnothi, that each band can manifest as a once per game boost to their prowess.

[The Rumour Thread]

15 hours ago, Kramer said:

can I just say for an alternative option. All males in DoK society are killed, enslaved or become weird sightless and mounted wizards. But the fluff for the executioners says they might worship Khaine. 
‘Skull- masked warriors wielding two- handed blades known as draichs, these aelves have devoted themselves entirely to the art of slaughter. Some say that they worship the aelf god Khaine, Lord of Murder, but the Executioners do not speak of their faith – indeed, they seldom speak
at all – to those outside their order.’

so that would mean they would worship Morathi. So these might be from that or a similar order from the free cities that worship Khaine/Morathi. 

I would guess that Morathi's spies and assassins, and indeed the Executioner regiments, can include male aelves in the same way in the medieval Church women could be Christians - the Temples and the Daughters of Khaine represent the "clergy" and the religious communes and communities built around Morathi and her supporters - here the males "born of the Cauldron" are remade into the wretched labour classes, some of which then "rise" to become Doomfire Warlocks. However, presumably there are - both in the Free Cities and in the Temple-Cities of the Daughters themselves - "lay" communities that work in more skilled civilian positions supporting the wretched male aelves and making sure that the Daughters can devote themselves to improving their devoted acts of slaughter without needing to become architects or bakers or trade pioneers. Most of these populations are probably either devoted Khainites or unfocused, venerating Khaine or the wider pantheon of Order passively. The males here are not under Morathi's /direct/ control, but also cannot rise to become a threat to her, and so probably aren't bound by the same rules or treated with the same hostility, and indeed many could swear oaths of silence and become Executioners dedicated to their sorceress, or else be recruited by Morathi and her inner circle to serve as shades/assassins/spies/all the other old World-that-Was Khainite roles that males could perform - the criteria is almost certainly utter devotion to the High Oracle above all others, and much like the Bloodwrack Medusae represent Queens who rose too high and threatened Morathi, I have no doubt that there are some cruel "honours" for a male assassin who Morathi decides might be a threat.

[Getting started]

If you are interested in Gloomspite they have an awful lot of variety and places for your army to grow, and indeed can give you a lot of variety for RPGs, both Soulbound and D&D/generic fantasy characters/villains

The army has a core of the Moonclan Grots - goblins, with a variety of wacky villain leaders - shamans and bosses, and the Grotapalooza who can be RPG villains in their ow right as all manner of strange goblins, creatures of the Underdark/Shadowfell/Feywilds, and what have you, with their strange fairy tale elements and mushroom creatures. One even wears a big mask like the goblins in Chult in the Forgotten Realms. With hordes of grots, elite warriors and bosses, and then squigs - ridden squigs, hearded squigs, gigantic squigs, squig artillery that spits smaller squigs..., even without dabbling with the other elements of the Gloomspite the Moonclan gives you a lot of options.
Spiderfang are a cavalry force of goblins on giant spiders of ever increasing size - in game they add a lethal short range punch to a goblin force, particularly in dense terrain like forests or cities. In Soulbound they range from massed Spider Rider mooks through to monstrous araknarok spiders and powerful shaman kings, especially if you add in the flavour of them having bosses swollen to physically imposing brawlers by magical venom.
Then they get monsters - Troggoths can be an army in their own right, and have a surprising amount of variety within themselves if you want a monstrous, elite army. Rockgut and Fellwater Troggoths offer a decent choice in battleline for AoS, and there are few fantasy settings or regions in a D&D world that don't have trolls - with these two options being able to be all manner of standard/rock/cave/ice/venom/skrag trolls. The Forge World Troll Hag is a monstrous wizard, a decent advisor to a big boss of a Soulbound campaign, being able to be a bodyguard and sage advisor both to a warlord, and in another setting could be a troll wizard or even an enormous annis hag or similar. The Dankhold Troggoths/Trogbosses are giant-sized commanders - a tough unit to crack, and as the recent "solo play" rules from GW themselves show, major villains in their own right. In D&D or similar, these could be enormous mountain trolls, a troll king, a stone giant or who knows what else - they are big, covered in strange Feywild/Underdark details and intimidating to put down in front of adventurers. 
Gloomspite also get access to the Aleguzzler Gargant - a classic hill giant and a fun bruiser, in case you want even more variety in the strange monsters your gloomspite general/evil wizard/hobgoblin warlord has managed to coax into service.

With Gloomspite as your base, you can then spread out into mixed Destruction if you want more options in your DM pockets - the upcoming Sons of Behemat give you enormous giants if the Dankhold Troggoths/Aleguzzler Gargant aren't big enough for you, the Mawtribes give you Ogors if you want heavy infantry marching behind your thievin' mobs, with sabretooth monsters, enormous fantasy creatures as mounts, a variety of wizards and heroes, and gnoblars for a different asthetic to your tides of little gitz. Then, of course, there are the Orruk Warclans - if you want heavily armoured or tribal orcs for your adventurers to have a more... traditionally martial... foe.

 

Edit to add: Whilst I think that Gloomspite offer an enormous amount of variety, I agree with what others are saying - be led by the kind of RPG adventure you want to run/play. Gloomspite are straightforward villains - teeming hordes of stupid brutes or low-level enemies, with a few cunning commanders or wizards, and the option for some Feywild or Underdark flavour. If you want a gothic horror or undead campaign, Nighthaunt or Death in general, with you being able to pick up the Ossiarch / Flesh Eater Courts as your focus if you so wish. Beasts of Chaos have some very fun models, but I personally think offer fewer stories - unless your players really enjoy the "pushing back the Wilds" themes. Slaves to Darkness give you a lot of models and themes too, possibly more than Gloomspite, although I think the models have a touch less character, and from an RPG point of view I can see more times a team of Soulbound/adventurers would square off against a troll lord than a Chaos Warshrine

[Kurnothi - The Path Towards a Fan Battletome]

2 minutes ago, Lord of the Isle said:

You have inspired me to work up some background for my ‘Remnants of Haven’ Mortal Realms post Bretonnia ideas. Will probably only be used for Soulbound not AoS! But shares some Celtic Twilight common ground. Will post in new thread if of interest

Would definitely be interested to see what you come up with!

 

3 hours ago, Melcavuk said:

Just a few quick thoughts:

The First Spear – Command ability needs to caveat a unit may not benefit from this ability more than once per phase, and the limitor of that the command ability lasts until the end of that phase.

Huntcaller: Spell cuts off midway through the ability
Could he benefit from the usual “wizard” weapon profile (4+ 3+ D3 damage) instead?? Just an idea

Infantry – its odd to say this with custom rules but I cant help but feel they lack a degree of bite to them, their stats seems fine its just that little either oomph or trick that most have. Cant think of any immediate ideas but something.

Noamhar – Reskinned kurnoths so work well and look good.


The suggestion above to simplify unit leaders makes sense too.

Otherwise looks good, will be good to see

Yes - will add the once per turn caveat on the command ability and the other text. Thanks for catching that!

Huh, so it is... it isn't cutting off in my files... that's so weird... I will have a go at reuploading that. The weapon choice was to match what the "official" model has, but I suppose that it could be buffed.

Yeah, for now at the very least the infantry lacks oomph - I am generally of the opinion that fan stuff should err on the side of caution if you want other people to adopt/accept/use it, and that it is easier to start basic and come up with a cool idea later to add to them to try and take away cool but too powerful ideas that you have made a core part of their character. 
One idea I did have, inspired a little by both the "command abilities" of the Ossiarch, and also the fey magic of the Eladrin in 5e D&D, giving them a once-per-battle ability that gives them a little boost - something hunt or feywilds themed to reinforce their otherness?

[Kurnothi - The Path Towards a Fan Battletome]

That's a good point about the weapons - I'll look into seeing if editing the champion weapons to be a unit upgrade boost looks okay or if it looks a bit too wall of text. It would certainly be more elegant. 
The movement value comes from Skaeth's Wild Hunt - I assumed that the 6" was the slowest speed in that unit, and that given the other models are a lithe lion and a horse-man, that the "Ruhaigi" are probably the element slowing them down. I do want the impression of speed though, which was part of the reason for giving the Trackers an infiltrate ability.

[Kurnothi - The Path Towards a Fan Battletome]

2 hours ago, Gecktron said:

Looks interesting so far!

Maybe you can add your thoughts behind your design choices for future posts? I think it would help seeing what you tried to do. 

Adding to that, what general theme, or game play are you aiming for? For example, Kharadron Overlords are quick, and focus on ranged fire power, while Ossiarch Bonereapers are slow and tend to focus on close combat, Lumineth are rather defensive and focus on magic, etc... 

Maybe a unique mechanic like Aethergold, or the Ogors hungry mechanic. Maybe they could focus on the hunt part. A good way to bring that theme to the table could be buffs when targeting heroes? Or maybe let your own heroes mark an enemy unit as "prey"?

Another thing that almost all new armies share is a centerpiece. A book 300-400+ points model. Do you planned the aspects of Kurnoth for that spot?

Design Notes on the stuff so far:

The Ruhaigi are very much supposed to be the most "Kurnothi" of the Kurnothi - where the Damhari are aelven nobles with a wild twist, and the Wilderdancers are outsiders - allies and spies as much as hunters - the Ruhaigi are supposed to show off the undiluted culture of the Kurnothi. They are as wild and reckless as Orion in the World-that-Was in the heights of his hunts, but temper that with the same almost solemn seriousness of elves - the stoic "knighthood" we see in the Kurnoth Hunters in the Sylvaneth and in Orion's role as King of Athel Loren.

The Ruhaigi are where I tried to really push off both the hunting themes and this duality. and rule wise, they are designed to be able to stand in fairly well for Cities of Sigmar units if push comes to shove.
Hero wise, the Firstspears are armed with big boar spears - they encourage the hunting "hounds" of the Kurnothi, and can bring down monsters in melee, where they thrive. But, on the flip side, they are leaders who boost Bravery and act as "kings". As a mechanical unit, they are a blend/a stand-in for Freeguild Generals and Nomad Princes - combat heroes with a support element.

As a mirror, the Huntcallers are surrounded by despair and the solemn weight of their duty, and are not statted for the same front-line melee work as the Firstspear. However, they still carry the hunting horns that define the magic and hunting theme of the army. As a mechanical unit, they are a support caster, although none of the CoS casters are obvious 1-for-1 fits.

The troops are designed to have these same internal and external splits. The Trackers are reckless and aggressive, but show this with a calculated stealth rule that emphasises skill not passion, whilst the Hunters are calmer, more patient ranged fighters, whose special rules stress emotion and cruelty. Rule wise, both the Hunters and Trackers are based off the Wild Hunt statblock with rules and flavours drawn from the Shadow Warriors, albeit toned down in order to make them feel less like elite assassins and more like a Battleline unit.

The Noamhar are deliberately a break from this, being as they are in-universe a very big break from how most Ruhaigi. As they are physically more like the Sylvaneth and are "made" with Sylvaneth magic, the Noamhar are rule-wise designed to look a lot like "Kurnoth Hunters Lite", with a Life-magic effect designed to somewhat offset the fragility and cost of an aelven army (as they run towards fragile elites). Using them as Greatsword Hunters in a Living City army could be a good "count as" for these guys.

 

There will be a lot of small rules/spells/magic items that let me single out individual units to be hunted yes - that is very much something I want to go for, design wise, and when I get round to sharing the Allegiance Abilities on here. The Autumn subfaction will also get a buff against HEROES and MONSTERS to show their emphasis on the hunting aspect of their wars, there will be an endless spell that reduces enemy movement options, etc...

The other major theme is showing the raucous din of a "wild" hunt - giving bravery debuffs and exploding hits to show the sudden fury of the fey. The dread otherness of the fey, and the vengeful horror of fighting nature spirits cut off from their own god was a big theme I wanted to explore - the feeling of being "prey".

 

In terms of centrepiece concepts, both the Wild King and the Great Stag are going to be Eltharion-esque "larger than life" heroes, and if I end up exploring a larger Noamhar monster that will probably end up conceptually being the Spirit of the Mountain style big unit.



If I have not explained anything or people have any questions or suggestions, let me know!