angrycontra
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Posts posted by angrycontra
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The way I see it, Dok have two primary issues:
1) Witchbrew. Bshock immunity and full wound rerolls and no roll needed? Sure the range is bad but the issue is simply this: dok players can just spam the ability as long as they need until they charge out of reach (if they charge out of reach that is) and by that point the damage is already done. And you know what's the worst of it? If turn roll comes and you (non-dok player) win the roll, you have to make choice between letting dok player have another turn and attacking you but losing their buffs, or you take the turn but dok player keeps all buffs, including bshock immunity. There's no winning in that scenario. People say that haq queen on foot is underpriced (which she is) but that is imo ignoring the big issue of witchbrew being too strong buff in the first place (and too easy to use). I feel that either removing the bshock immunity aspect or making it once per battle would instantly solve the issue.
2) Haggnar 5++ fnp. Dok are not supposed to be tough to kill army. Giving one army speed, power and survivability at the same time is ridiculous. What's even worse is that you get full hit rerolls from same temple making it easily the best choice.
Some point cost adjustments should be made for dok (both nerfs and buffs) but the 2 abilities I mentioned above are big issues that points can't fix. Same with gristlegore, you can't fix that with points. Faq or flat ghb rule change is needed.
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58 minutes ago, J.J said:
Sorry if this has already been answered, but can the "Skull-breakers and Oath-takers" ability be used more than once in a turn as long as it's on different units? It seems like you can. If so it seems incredibly good and Hermdar might be my competitive pick!
Yes it can be used on multiple units on same turn.
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37 minutes ago, Priminister said:
I'm just starting out with Fyreslayers, any tips for fighting FeC or Legions of Nagash? I've got 1 buddy who plays both and no one can ever beat him >.<
Well against fec fyreslayers are quite strong imo. You can stack saves with various mechanics (battlesmith, prayer of ash, forge brethren, runesmiter magmadroth and couple artifacts/traits) and the non-monster fec troops will just fail to do anything. Against gristlegore you got multiple tools:
- auric hearthguard deal 2 damage with their shooting attack against monsters. If you are using lofnir lodge you can even boost their killing power with lodge command ability. You can pop these guys anywhere on the map with runesmiter.
- hg berzerkers are so tough, that you can ideally tank gristlegore general's double pile in and then proceed to whack the thing out with what's left. Hermdar lodge command allows you to even attack before gristlegore general attacks (only in your turn however).
- vulkites (in your turn) can charge gristlegore general, activate their berserker fury ability, use hermdar lodge ability to pile in first, and then when they die, they pile in again.
LoN is a bit more difficult. If you know you're facing LoN, I highly recommend aurics because it is imperative that you delete their heroes asap. The problem with LoN is that your guys can't grind through their forces fast enough (minus lotl battalion hgb) to not allow any models from ressing back to that unit.
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I'm personally not gonna bother going with any magic defence options unless I really don't have any plans for any other cool artifact combos. As said above, fyreslayers have strong prayers that opponent can't do nothing against them, fyrewall can block any visibility based magic easily, plus these guys are tough to kill outside magic/mortals.
Also as I said earlier in this thread, I've already lost game because I took knight incantor instead of 10 extra vulkites. Knight incantor barely managed to unbind or cast anything while those 10 extra vulkites would've helped me cap one objective and win the game for me. The nulsidian icon on same match managed to save single hgb from dying to endless spell, whoopdedoo, I had like 11 of them alive at the end of game anyway (I still think nulsidian icon is great artifact but I wouldn't call it mandatory).
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I got to say that masque is seriously terrible hero. 120p for unique hero who has mediocre damage, ok-ish survivability and 0 utility. Like who designed that warscroll? If it was non-unique non-leader maybe then with some nice artifact but now... simply useless (nice looking model though).
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2 hours ago, multiarms said:
Stupid question regarding Fyreslayer priests:
Can they chant their warscroll prayer, and their zharrgrim blessing, and do a magmic invocation, all in the same hero phase? Or only one? I'm confused/
Only stupid question is the question that was never asked. Anyway, yes you can do everything. The typical limitations will obviously still apply (book prayers can only be attempted once each no matter how many priests have the same prayer chosen, only one magmic invocation per priest can be attempted, warscroll prayers have no limitations). You can even get 4 prayers/invocations in turn with your general if you have runemaster/smiter as your general and you take that command trait that allows picking 2 book prayers instead of one.
Edit. Too slow
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3 hours ago, Balloon Dwarf said:
Right, I've got my first ever game with the Fyreslayers on Sunday against Nurgle and this list fields pretty all the models I have available apart from a Doomseeker. I like the idea with the Greyfyrd lodge, and figure I can boost my lower model count with the artifacts. What do you guys think of the choices so far? Any help would be appreciated, though I think a lot of it may come down to trying it and seeing what works.
Allegiance: Fyreslayers
- Lodge: Greyfyrd
Leaders
Auric Runefather on Magmadroth (280)
- General
- Trait: Battle-scarred Veteran
- Artefact: Helm of Obsidia
- Magmadroth Trait: Ash-horn Ancient
Auric Runemaster (120)
- Artefact: Ash-cloud Rune
- Prayer: Prayer of Ash
Battlesmith (140)
- Artefact: Icon of the Ancestors
Auric Runeson (100)
- Wyrmslayer Javelins
- Artefact: Obsidian Glowhelm
Grimwrath Berzerker (100)
- Artefact: Bracers of Ember-iron
Auric Runesmiter (120)
- Runic Iron
- Prayer: Ember Storm
Battleline
10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (240)
- Broadaxes
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers (160)
- Handaxes & Slingshields
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers (160)
- Handaxes & Slingshields
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers (160)
- Handaxes & Slingshields
5 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (120)
- Poleaxes
Battalions
Lords of the Lodge (140)
Warrior Kinband (140)
Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 131
I would drop warrior kinband if I were you. It doesn't provide any real benefit to this army and you could use the extra points for 10 vulkites or something like that.
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10 minutes ago, Maier666 said:
Hey Guys got a question.
The Ash Storm prayer is a 4+ if the previews I saw are correct right?
I'm asking because in my Battletome (The German one) there are all prayers with 3+, even Ash Storm.
Should be a misprint in the Translation?
But I find it a bit curious because it's a printed number
It sounds like translation error. That 4+ prayer feels to me that it was made like that by design (since it's best prayer in the book)
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10 minutes ago, Jetengine said:
How do you deal with objectives since that was always a loss with my Dispossesed ?
Well unlike dispossessed, fyreslayers have fast units in magmadroths plus runesmiter deepstriking. Furthermore once per game +2 to move from allegiance power plus run and charge mechanics from vostarg lodge and/or prayers give them extra edge. They're still not that great with objectives but better than dispossessed for sure.
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It pretty much depends on tome but I can say for fyreslayers that any prayer they know, they can attempt to use. Normally this means their warscroll prayer and book prayer (as well as magmic invocations) but there are command traits that allow picking extra prayers. The wording on prayers goes something like "if a friendly fyreslayer priest knows this prayer he may attempt to use it in hero blaa blaa". Nothing in the book prevents using multiple prayers, only restrictions are that each (book) prayer may only be attempted once and no more than one magmic invocation can be attempted per priest
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1 hour ago, multiarms said:
I'm putting together a 1000-point vanguard list for an upcoming team tournament.
I've never played Fyreslayers before, and this will be my first AoS tournament as well. Here are some initial thoughts:
Allegiance: Fyreslayers
LEADERS
Auric Runefather (100) - General
Auric Runemaster (80)
Battlesmith (120)
Auric Runesmiter (120)
UNITS
10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (200)
5 x Auric Hearthguard (100)
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers (120)
BATTALIONS
Lords of the Lodge (110)
TOTAL: 950/1000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2 WOUNDS: 48
LEADERS: 4/4 BATTLELINES: 2 (2+) BEHEMOTHS: 0/2 ARTILLERY: 0/2 ARTEFACTS: 0/2 ALLIES: 0/200
I'm thinking I would add the Runic Fyrewall incantation for the extra 50 points (forgoing the extra command point).
My strategy is to cluster the Runefather, Battlesmith, and Runemaster to buff the Hearthguard Berserkers, with the Vulkites as a screen. A slowly mobile anvil. My parter in the tournament is bringing Stormcast with Lord Arcanum, Sequitors and Evocators as our hammer.
The Runesmiter and Auric Hearthguard would tunnel to be a deepstrinking harrasment bully.
Any comments or critiques? Ideas for Lodge, Artefacts, and weapon loadouts are also welcome. Thanks!
- Nick
Well for one, those are old points. After quick calculation you can have everything you have there except for battalion. Your army is exactly 1000p without battalion so if you really want that battalion you need to drop 140p of something from your list. Needless to say, you don't have any wiggle room in that list for magmic invocations or command points.
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9 hours ago, AlmGandix3 said:
Im a Dispossessed player and wanted to ask what units got better without allegiance synergy. So which units and combos got better as allies in your eyes? Maybe its still too soon to tell, but id like to use some to help my dispossessed mobility wise so probably a runesmiter with a unit of hearthguard berzerkers.
Well can't say there are too many. Vulkites are better in smaller units than they used to be, but I'm not really sure if they give any major value for dispossessed. Hg berz. need fyreslayer hero which limits their use as allies (you can basically only take 10 man unit, which with hero costs about 400p). Aurics are useful as allies. If you take 10 aurics, they cost 40p more than 10 irondrakes but you get double the wounds and double damage against monsters. Put hero like runesmiter there and they can be deepstriked and aurics will even protect runesmiter if you wish. Grimwraths are pretty solid allies (especially since they lack leader role, this means you could add 4 of them without ruining your army). Magmadroths are not that great as allies. Loss of artifacts, magma traits and any helpful save stacking makes them not so strong as allies.
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Even though I don't collect slaanesh, I am rather disappointed with the lack of mortals. Honestly all gw really needed to do was to release 1 mortal unit, maybe something akin to blight kings. It could've been dual kit even, giving slaanesh 2 mortal options. That wouldn't have made pure mortal armies work but it would allow people to make more mortal focused armies (mix of demons and mortals).
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2 hours ago, prochuvi said:
White lions 120points 20 attacks 3-3 1 rend, save4 and reroll saves 1 in shooting
Swordmasters 140 points 20 attacks 3-3 1 rend save 4 rerroling all in shooting
Grimhast reapers 140 points 20 attacks 4-3 1 rend invulnerable save of 4
Namarti tralls 140 points 20 attacks 3-3 1 rend (50-100% more damage vs 1 or 5 wounds) same save of 5
And the best example of one unit 100% better than vulkites: the phoenyx guard,140 points for 10 wound with save 4 and 4++ 20 attacks 3-3 0 rend.so same attacks,1 better save,4++ that is the same than double wound and cost 20 less also have 25 base and 2" rangue
Oh also maybe the worst army of aos2, the dispossesed have for 160 points 20 warriors that are 20 wounds with save of 5(rerrolling all at melle that is the same that a save of4 at melle of vulkites) also have 20 attacks 4-3 1 rend that is the same that vulkites with shield. So same points for same stats,vulkites have the attack even if dead and warriors the reroll wounds in oponent turn. I prefer vulkites but is a example of how bad are vulkites when they have almost 100% the same stats that a unit of one of the worst armys of this edition
I know that i was very salty at first and now after thinking more Many things in the new tome have been buffed and are great,but vulkites have been nerfed and havent any use now.
After some thinking maybe they are usefull vs flesh eaters,so they can figth back when the dragon allways attack first and attack twice kill them
First of all, all your examples have 1 wound (with phoenix guard being technically exception). Vulkites have literally double their survivability. Secondly, fyreslayers get easy access to save stacking so that can make vulkites even more durable. Thirdly, phoenix guard are pretty strong yes, but that is also the reason why phoenix temple based order lists have done well in tournaments. They're too good for their points. And even there... Even there the difference is only 20p and vulkites have ability to pile in after death (not to mention allegiance advantages) which should count for something. Also vulkites get full rerolls with axes. As for the dispossessed example, well getting 20 guys in melee is lot harder than getting 10 in melee (despite smaller bases) and once again, allegiance advantages for fyreslayers are the reason why they're better army than dispossessed (for now).
But seriously, do you really have nothing else to contribute to this thread (or any other thread for that matter) than constant whining and crying? Every time I see overly negative comment in this forum, I don't even need to look at the name to know it's you. It's just a game. If vulkites are bit meh, they get point cuts in the future. Same with everything else. Besides, at this point it's too early to tell and each army has it's own strenghts and weaknesses, you can't always tell straight away whether unit x is better than y.
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Had my first fyreslayer game yesterday. 2000p against legions of nagash (not nighthaunt focused). Here's a quick version of my list:
Hermdar lodge
Runefather on magma (general)
Runesmiter on magma
Runemaster
Battlesmith
Knight incantor
3x10 vulkites
15 hg berzerkers (poleaxes)
Molten infernoth
Lords of the lodge
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I did lose the game but it was very close one plus (literally something like 1-2 objective points difference) my slayers performed much better against death than they have in the past (fyreslayers have always struggled at wiping death units due to resurrect mechanics). Anyway here's some observations:
1. Knight incantor was worthless. Some could have seen it coming but I wanted some magic power in my army. This guy barely managed to unbind anything and completely failed at damage too. I would have probably won the game if I had replaced him with extra 10 vulkites (had 30p left over) because then I could've captured one of the objectives and outlived a unit of chainrasps.
2. Hg berzerkers are pretty amazing but I don't see multiple units of them being a good idea. These guys managed to kill stuff probably twice their points worth but... they were stuck in one place for the entire game. They're good at surviving and killing, but they're still too slow at killing stuff fast enough. Taking multiple units of these guys means less bodies on board which in turn means less ground to cover (not to mention their hero dependancy). Further more, they do have somewhat swingy damage, especially with poleaxes. Sometimes they do great, sometimes not so great.
3. Magmadroths were quite tanky but not too impressive on damage department. I'm actually thinking of running both of my magmies as one "unit", with runesmiter giving claw hit rerolls from that artifact and save rerolls from magmatrait (not to mention wound rerolls from prayers) while runefather takes the ignore 1 rend trait plus the lodge artifact plus lodge c. Trait (-1 to enemy wound rolls around 12"). I can see these two running around fast killing stuff.
4. Prayers were really cool and fun to use. Generally I really like most of the fyreslayer prayers and I have really tough time choosing what I want to give my priests (other than that 1 mandatory +1 to sv rolls prayer). Molten infernoth was pretty cool too, it did reasonably good job at softening multiple targets (and was very easy to resummon whenever it disappeared.) The only problem was that the rest of my army couldn't finish the job on that side of board (if only I had taken those 10 extra vulkites).
All in all, it was a fun first game for fyreslayers and I still have plenty of lists to test.
As a side note, not sure how many people have noticed this but all the reroll hits/wounds/etc. Do NOT have the word "failed" in them. This means that regardless of modifiers, you can reroll everything (even successful ones if you're crazy enough to do that) which is great.
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I really love the design of lodges in this army. I can see myself playing all of them. Even lodgeless army can work due to some really potent command traits. Every lodge has at least one or two extremely useful tools at their disposal and they really encourage different army builds. I'd argue that Lofnir is the worst but it is still the best option for magmadroth and auric hearthguard -heavy lists. My personal favorite lodge is Hermdar, that command ability that allows melee activation at the start of combat phase is just awesome plus that -1 to wound command trait is pretty insane too.
All in all, this book feels pretty cool option-wise, I think gw really managed to at least encourage (even if they're not all viable) different army builds for fyreslayers.
I still kinda feel that they missed real opportunity with molten infernoth. Had gw removed it from the magmic incant. Box, replaced it with some other decent looking spell, and then put it in its own box with 1 extra hand and couple extra head -options, it would've been fantastic new unit for the army ('cause the model looks great).
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Well how about this to replace turn roll:
The player who wins initiative role gets to choose one (and only one) unit that can act in advance (minus command abilities). You can do everything with that unit from hero to charge phase before opponent gets to act. When combat phase starts you can choose to attack with that one unit before opponent selects any units to pile-in and attack with. If you chose to activate unit this way, you can't do it later in your own turn (so no double hero phase or anything).
This way there is still that surprise element and extra tactics but other player doesn't have to wait billion years when opponent gets double turn.
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I voted against double turn. Originally I've been in favour of turn roll but recently it has been the source of biggest negative experiences for me in aos. Let me give some examples:
1st game. Me playing skryre against dok. My opponent got some really lucky long charges and caught me by surprise. I lost most of my army that turn. Almost threw a towel at that point. Anyway, it's time for turn roll. I win the roll, make comeback and win game through objectives. So what am I on here about? Well... if I had lost that roll, it would've been 100% defeat for me (double turn for dok). One roll literally dictated the entire course of the game. One roll. People often say that double turn makes games more exciting and allows miraculous comebacks but what it also does, is to allow people to steamroll and make double points from objectives. This skryre vs dok game was plenty exciting even without any double turns during the game (it was igougo entire game) but had that 1 roll failed, it would've been lame game, heh my opponent was even willing to give me the turn had I lost the roll, so how is that for a good game mechanic.
2nd game. Fyreslayers and gobbos vs boc and slaanesh. My fyreslayers and team mate's gobbos got double turn. During that double turn we killed all remaining slaanesh heroes and secured our objectives. This prevented slaanesh from summoning anything and boc from utilizing those summons to cap objectives. Needless to say, we won that match, but our victory didn't feel earned. Maybe this game was already in our favour, but once again, at least it would've been more fun match if it weren't for that double turn.
I enjoy consistency. Can double turn make some matches really great? Sure but at the cost of ruining other games. No turn roll means that there won't be any real fun surprises but it also means that all negative surprises will be out as well and games will be overall consistently more enjoyable. Now some rule changes would be necessary for removal of turn roll (like endless spells) but it can be dealt with.
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120p hearthguard feel bit low. I mean, it is small model count compared to vulkites but still, that's basically 20 wounds with 5 hearthguard berzerkers with better combat stats than vulkites. Vulkites do have better objective game but man 40p is rather big difference (also with no mass discount for vulkites, 30 vulkite units are pretty much dead, so gonna make some extra champions and musicians to reduce those unit sizes).
Grimwrath and doomseeker as non-leaders is fantastic. Gonna buy couple extra grimwraths in the future for sure. Endless prayers seem reasonable in their pricing. Runemaster is too expensive (runesmiter just still feels better option) but at least it doesn't ruin your game anymore. Magmadroth seem reasonable, runesmiter magma big point increase is justified imo.
All in all, fairly happy with points. But I really think they botched hearthguard berzerker and vulkite points. I think vulkites would be better at 150 (with mass discount) with hearthguard being 140 but we'll see how it goes. My biggest fear is that people are just gonna do hearthguard spam opposed to vulkite spam.
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I'm fairly happy with these warscrolls. Most units got some kind of buff and those that got nerfed (battlesmith and runesmiter) the nerfs were expected (wholly within ranges and prayer rolls and runesmiters can't be placed in reserve same time with the deepstrike unit based on wording of that ability) and they got other stuff to compensate for it (battlesmith has better melee and +1 to save is better than rerolls in some cases and there are probably artifact banners in book, while runesmiters get extra prayer from allegiance stuff plus endless prayers). I also like the crazy amount of save stacking these guys can get.
I'm especially happy that gw didn't go too wild with these changes, my biggest fear would've been that fyreslayers ended up hitting like a truck while taking blows like iron fortress but they seem reasonably balanced (in aos 2 standards). With that said, points are still concern. Too cheap, and fyreslayers will be broken. Too expensive and fyreslayers will be useless. I'm especially concerned about magmadroths. Gw has a bad track record of buffing unit's stats only to increase their cost too much making the buff near worthless (looking at you beast of nurgle). Based on magmadroth buffs, their cost should remain more or less exactly what it is now (20 points more I could still live with).
Lack of unbinds is unfortunate but maybe gw wanted to give fyreslayers this specific weakness (they have strong prayers themselves that can't be unbound after all). And on more positive note, my converted knight-incantor is still useful ally for the army.
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1 hour ago, prochuvi said:
I am alone seeing how we are getting some huge nerfs?
They have told us how insane tanky we are now with one extra wound,also how great is the one per game rune of throwing with the +1 to hig and so.
Also the extra attack with hearthguard
But........as allways in those previews they are all lies.
They didnt told us as we have lost the 50% save after save than cancel 100% the extra wound(make maths,50% after save is 100% the same than 100% more wounds)
Also they didnt told us nothing about how all our shooting axes have been nerfed HARD and now it is 5 hit and 5 wound.so this huge buffs of the rune is useless and they have nerfed all our shooting.
In general we are better now?i am not sure,we havent got buffs in our tankyness,neither our dps(pretty sure we have lost the battallion of atack twice of hearthguard cancelling this buff and doing it the same than before with the battallion) but we have got a HUGE nerf to our shooting axes.
Sure now we can field vulkites as 10 because we dont get nothing of field 30 and now we dont need use battalion tomattack twice of hearthguard.those are buffs.
But those are minor buffs that wont get us from middle\lower tier to the tier of aos2 battletomes.
In general all that we know is very bad news and i hope we get some huge bufs in our way or we are ******
First of all, based on rumours, only vulkites lose their beard saves and considering that everyone and their mother were asking for better vulkites at min size units, 2 wounds should deliver that easily. This fact alone will not only save points for fyreslayers (as we will no longer need full units of 30) but it will also allow fyreslayers to spread out their forces more easily (since instead of having 3 big blobs, we can have 3-5 smaller groups, mixed with other fyreslayer units.) Which is good as objective game has always been one of the biggest weaknesses of this army.
Secondly, aurics are getting massive buff. 2 wounds for them is quite literally 100% survivability buff for them and that is exactly what they need.
Thirdly, how do you even know that we're losing hg berz battalion? Fec has flayers battalion that allows pile in and attack in hero phase, why wouldn't fyreslayers have one? Further more, having 2 attacks (at 2" range) immediately is so much better than having to survive into hero phase and then pile in and attack (plus that requires battalion and only one unit can benefit from it). Finally, if the rumours are true, hg berzerkers have both their slayer saves and their 2 wounds, which is huge boost for their overall survival.
And let's not forget that the 2 prayers they have shown are already pretty damn powerful (pile in and attack with hero, +1 save) and god only knows what else is there. Magmadroth traits are interesting plus they haven't even shown hero changes (you know command abilities etc.).
Now sure throwing axes got nerfed, whoop-de-doo, they never were that big part of fyreslayer damage to begin with (outside of maybe warrior kinband). I'm expectingvsome point increases too but considering that aurics got 100% survival boost (and most likely 100% dam boost against monsters) while hg berzerkers got 100% damage boost while possibly also getting 100% survival boost, some point increases are more than justified.
So yes, based on everything I've seen, and based on other comments, you are probably the only one seeing doom and gloom here. Stop looking into it so negatively. The biggest issue with fyreslayers has always been that they were one trick pony, vulkite spam was the only competetive way to play. It's obvious from these previews alone that that will change.
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The extra wound is great but not as big deal as it may seem, provided that the rumours about fyreslayers losing their slayer saves is true, after all 4++ fnp is basically same as having 2 wounds.
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I do hope that salamander ends up being some kind of hybrid between unit and spell. Like it could be a unit that can only be summoned by fyreslayer priests and can disappear/be dispelled like other endless spells.
Here's some other wishlisting:
- Given that fyreslayers have so few units, I want every single option to be viable and well balanced. I don't want to see vulkite spam, auric spam or any other spam spam spam become de facto way to play fyreslayers.
- Non-hero magmadroth option. It could simply be runeson with axe (but not called runeson). It's lazy, but I don't want my magmies take every available hero slots.
- Easier to use battalions. I don't want any battalions that require 3 vulkites, aurics or whatever. 2 is fine but 3 takes too much army space (plus I don't want to buy more vulkites).
- Speaking of vulkites, they should function better without having to take 30 models. It's frustrating how underpowered they feel in small unit sizes.
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I'm rather disappointed with lack of new fyreslayer models but that endless spell(?) Is probably one of the coolest I've seen (almost a waste if it's a endless spell/prayer, I'd almost wish that it would be summoned unit). Also based on description, some kind of non-hero magmadroth army sounds possible which was my bare minimum request. Really cool cover art too.
What would it take to balance Daughters of Khaine?
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
No it wasn't. It was within 8" before, not 18". Plus I would hardly call rerolls to save change nerf, since it is one of many tools to stack save bonuses on units and there are other sources for rerolls of 1 to save (which are better now thanks to save stacking).