Sethiris
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Posts posted by Sethiris
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16 minutes ago, GM_Monkey said:
What are the larger based model on the bottom left, the poses look amazing (well everything looks amazing!)
I think they are supposed to be Wardancers. Not sure what miniatures they are based on ( would love to know!) , but they would work great as Evocators (ruleswise)
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17 hours ago, SwampHeart said:
Its not a matter of sequencing, you can't use the Sisters defensive volley ability if there is an enemy unit within 3" of the unit. So if one unit survives and makes the charge you're automatically disqualified from using it again.
Actually, it states that there cannot be another unit within 3", as the ability triggers after the charge move is completed. In other words, would there be restrictions to shooting with one unit first, then the second if the first volley doesn't kill the charging unit?
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16 hours ago, SwampHeart said:
If the chaff survives the first salvo and you didn't shoot with the 2nd unit you won't be able to shoot with it if you're charged by a 2nd unit.
Something that survives 30 shots from Sisters of the Watch isn't really chaff, is it? 😜
Then again, is there really a precedent stating that they have to activate their abilities at the exact same time? As long as it's still finishing its charge move, it should be able to shoot at the first unit, right? Sequencing isn't really a detailed part of the rules. 🙄 -
25 minutes ago, feraxil said:
Here's an idea I've been mulling this morning, spamming d3 dmg shots.
Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Tempest's Eye
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Leaders
Lord-Ordinator (140)
- General
- Trait: Hawk-eyed
- Artefact: Seerstone Amulet
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Spell: Lore of Eagles - Celestial Visions (Tempest's Eye Wizard)
Battleline
10 x Darkshards (100)
- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
10 x Darkshards (100)
10 x Darkshards (100)
Units
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
3 x Scourgerunner Chariots (150)
War Machines
Helstorm Rocket Battery (130)
Helstorm Rocket Battery (130)
Helstorm Rocket Battery (130)
Helstorm Rocket Battery (130)
Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 164
Good artillery battery, non useless battleline tax, and scourgerunners shoot as well as gum up the works with their huge bodies.Interesting idea. It'll be very mobile and have a great threat range. And the shooting should be pretty decent.
The problem is that you have to get £412.5 (GW price) in just chariots, so this will be a really expensive army to build. 😅 -
When using Sisters or Handgunners, I'm starting to think that we probably do not need any screens if using the bridge.
What I'll do is play 2x30 sisters and weave them together so that all 60 can stand and shoot whenever charged. The cool part about it is that you don't have to shoot both at the same time if they hit you with chaff first (not that a lot of chaff will survive the salvo
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Then just go for a mobile strike unit or two.
Example list:
SpoilerAllegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Tempest's Eye
Leaders
Nomad Prince (120)
- General
- Trait: Hawk-eyed
- Artefact: Patrician's Helm
Sorceress (90)
- Spell: Lore of Eagles - Strike of Eagles (Tempest's Eye Wizard)
- City Role: General's Adjutant (Must be 6 wounds or less)
Battleline
30 x Sisters of the Watch (480)
30 x Sisters of the Watch (480)
10 x Darkshards (100)
- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (130)
- Spell: Lore of Eagles - Aura of Glory (Tempest's Eye Wizard)
Units
10 x Wild Riders (260)
10 x Wild Riders (260)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Soulscream Bridge (80)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 130
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40 minutes ago, GM_Monkey said:
It's within 12" though, put I guess with 5 caster it difficult to guess which one is going to cast it? Or was he casting it though a spell portal or balewind?
Portal. That's why the spell portal was the issue. Without it I could just stay far enough away to avoid the brunt of the spells.
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18 hours ago, Furythrow2 said:
Maybe you could shuffle the big monsters around/ try some others and see what gives the most punch. I think the hurricanum is probably a big force multiplier so I'd be wary of dropping it. Maybe you could run the version without the character wizard? I'm not sure if the penumbral engine is the answer to lacking punch though.
You're right. The engine would just be a points sink. That is more if we really need the cp. But hopefully, one extra will suffice. Another option is of course to go for a general on foot and have a 50% chance of an extra. If you're running two dragons, that cp can be used to give them +1 on wound rolls. They need the hit modifier more, but it's still something.
Something like this then maybe?SpoilerAllegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Living City
Dreadlord on Black Dragon (300)
- Lance of Spite & Repeater Crossbow
- Artefact: Spear of the Hunt
Dreadlord on Black Dragon (300)
- Lance of Spite & Repeater Crossbow
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Spell: Lore of Leaves - Cage of Thorns (Living City Wizard)
Nomad Prince (120)
- General
- Trait: Druid of the Everspring - Ironoak Skin
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Lore of Leaves - Lifesurge (Living City Wizard)
- City Role: General's Adjutant (Must be 6 wounds or less)
20 x Sisters of the Watch (320)
10 x Sisters of the Watch (160)
10 x Sisters of the Watch (160)
- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (170)
Extra Command Point (50)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 95 -
14 hours ago, Rune said:
Sorry for bugging. As I know you said you just got destroyed by a Hallowheart list - but can you share what his list was roughly made out of?
EDIT: In regards to the Spell Portal, you can only cast 1 spell per turn through it. Was it really that destructive with only one spell going through it?Sure,
It was 5 casters (3 battlemages, one with ignax scales and then 2 sorceresses)
A fleetmaster general
40+20+20 corsairs
and 30 phoenix guard
The thing that kills is elemental cyclone. Rolls as many dice as there are models in a unit, on a 4+ it does a mortal wound. That effectively halves a unit per turn. In this game, it killed a whole unit per turn because he got lucky with the dice rolls and I didn't have any battleshock immunity.-
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45 minutes ago, Furythrow2 said:
@Sethiris Honestly if it was a really stompy battle I'd give it some time before you make any dramatic changes to the list. If you get the chance to try it a few more times you might spot units that are consistently weak or whether they just had a bad match up
You're right. I probably need to get used to playing it before dumping the idea
But I did notice that I had a limited amount of offensive power. Perhaps the Hurricanum is just too much of a points sink. I'm thinking just 1 caster and either phoenix or stardrake, not both. Or just a Black Dragon with Crossbow. Then a(nother) dragon (black with crossbow) and more shooting or mobile units. and of course a second command point. I have been contemplating the Penumbral Engine, but it might just be too much points.
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So I tried it yesterday. Met one of the most competitive players at the club. He played a Hallowheart list which utterly destroyed me 😅
Conclusion: Mortal wounds are really dangerous to a monster list. And then of course the elemental cyclone meant one of my units was at least halved per turn. I couldn't stop any spells as he had +7 on casting rolls and the spell portal was the real killer. I have a feeling that they didn't really consider the endless spells and malign sorcery artefacts when they balanced Cities.
Looking at several meta lists today (hallowheart, legions of nagash, legion of grief, slaanesh, khorne, ossiarch bonereapers and tzeentch to name a few), they all have one thing in common. Key characters that hide behind large screens and need to be sniped. And magic tends not to suffice as many of them ignore spells or mortal wounds.
The answer? Probably just Longstrike Crossbows or something similar to be honest. Shadow Warriors should do a good job at sniping characters with a 2+ to hit in cover as well. Sisters of the Watch are really solid shooters but are extremely fragile and struggle with mobility. Therefore they need a delivery system to get in range (deep strike or Soulscream Bridge)
I do think that Scourgerunner Chariots would work well here, but they are extremely costly money-wise as a 150 pt unit will set you back about 80 quid. Fielding 5-6 units of these would cost you an arm and a leg. And I don't even want to think about transporting 15-18 120x92mm bases. 😵
Another unit we might want to consider including to counter those really impactful spells would be the Knight-Incantor. Shutting down a portal could save you up to 20 models or a key monster. That is hundreds of points.
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4 hours ago, Furythrow2 said:
Honestly if you have the extra points then yeah why not use a better unit, unless you're missing other synergies.
You're right though, play test and tell us how it goes!
Will do! Trying it tonight!
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49 minutes ago, Furythrow2 said:
@Sethiris if you're planning to use the freeguild guard just for board control I don't know if upgrading them to bleakswords would be worth it.
As for taking the crossbow on the dreadlord, I think the only way it's better than the shield is if you're using it with the command ability to get the easy charge from outflanking.
I know, they're pretty much the same (+1 move and bravery) but what else can I do with 30 points? 😅
Yeah, but then it'll be out of range of the Phoenix aura, which would be unfortunate. So I think I'll play it safe with a shield instead. But that's what play testing is for!
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15 hours ago, Aelfric said:
Haven't played any games with Cities yet, but have been focusing my hobby towards a Living City list. My main concern has been the lack of Command Points available. Without the Battalion or an Adjutant, you only get one per Hero phase. Every list I make has 50 pts spent on an extra CP. That's so I have the option of being able to use "Melt away" twice in an Alphastrike if I want to. The Spear of the Hunt seems best if you have 2 hard-hitting units going in at the same time so they both fight before being attacked back (providing your opponent can't alter priority). I am beginning to lean towards using missile troops to alphastrike with and conserve CPs as required.
Thanks for the input. You definitely have a point with the CP thing. I was thinking that this list might not be quite as dependant on it, but one option could be to swap out the Branchwych for a CP and upgrade the Freeguild guard to Bleakswords.
Another would be to drop the Stardrake, but getting something with 2+ save and a shooting attack is rare. So I won't really have anything to move, save for the Sisters and the Hurricanum.
I have considered a crossbow on the Black Dragon, but it feels so wasted to lose one save over it. And in this list, it's paired with the Phoenix which doesn't have any ranged attack anyway, so I might as well keep them as protected as possible. (-2 to wound on the Dragon should help, right?)
I do realize that this list is vulnerable to mortal wounds, but then again, the only things Cities have that aren't are the Phoenixes and Phoenix Guard.
Hopefully, striking first on the charge helps mitigate some of that, specifically versus Slaanesh and Khorne. FEC are still a hassle.
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So, I've been brainstorming a bit after playing Tempest's Eye at a tournament last weekend (bridge list, went 3-2) and already getting fed up with the whole model Tetris playstyle
I decided that a mobile army is more my thing, and I do love dragons.. So, here's a first version of the list I had in mind:
SpoilerAllegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Living City
Leaders
Anointed of Asuryan on Frostheart Phoenix (320)
Dreadlord on Black Dragon (300)
- Lance of Spite & Shield
- Artefact: Spear of the Hunt
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Spell: Lore of Leaves - Ironoak Skin (Living City Wizard)
Drakesworn Templar (460)
- General
- Tempest Axe
- Trait: Ironoak Artisan
Branchwych (80)
- Lore of Leaves: Lifesurge
Battleline
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Swords and Shields
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Swords and Shields
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Swords and Shields
Units
20 x Sisters of the Watch (320)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 108
The plan is to have the sisters deep strike together with the Branchwych and Drakesworn Templar. The sisters will clear screens, the Stardrake will act as a massive distraction Carnifex/tarpit and the other 3 behemoths; Phoenix, Black Dragon and Hurricanum will be the strike team with decent mobility, clearing the board, starting on one end. The battleline units will just be there for board control.
I might swap out the spells a bit as cage of thorns would be nice on the Branchwych, but casting on a 7 could be unreliable
Thoughts?
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On 10/25/2019 at 4:50 PM, Aelfric said:
You can use the NP's command ability at the start of the shooting phase or the start of the combat phase. The +1 to hit rolls last until the end of whichever phase you chose. So you can use it to buff WWR. I think WWR have a place, but I don't need 3 units of them. A unit of 10 to deepstrike at a particular target is as much as I would take. I'm sure that the battalion is capable of doing a good alphastrike, but too many stars need to align for it to be dependable.
Ah, my bad. I didn't read the whole thing!
But yeah. The 5+ save in particular has always irked me when it comes to WWR. Any attacks on them and they just fall apart. (And they upped the cost in the book, which seems really odd considering how rarely they were used before.)
Maybe if they were like 110?
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Just now, Aelfric said:
They would be charging on a 7+, +1 from their Hornblower and +1 from the battalion. I do agree, though, that having to have 3 units of them for the battalion is too many to make it viable. The minimum cost of the battalion is 650 points. You would probably want to buy a third CP to cover re-rolls for charges, which would bring the cost to 700 points. It's a big sink of points and there are better units to deepstrike with, especially in conjunction with "Melt away" to get a 3" charge.
I'm sure that they didn't want to include any missile units (SotW) in the battalion, but if we could have just had a mix of WWR and WR for the 3 units it would have more viability.
Yeah, that's a lot of tax for +1 charge. I agree that the same battalion with NP + 3xWR would definitely have been a different story.
That's why I said 8+
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32 minutes ago, Landohammer said:
Ah you are right on the Anointed, sorry I misread the anointed's points. Dang he is cheap.
The NP does give a +1 to hit for the wanderers though. (on top of the crazy good bird debuff). But I imagine the rangers will be teleporting out of the NP's aura most of the time, so I can see it being wasted.
I won't disagree that Phoenix Guard are better, but I still am not convinced that wildwood rangers are rubbish. I would still prefer them over Dryads, Liberators, Tzaangors, etc. Maybe my expectations for battle-line are just really low. 🤷♂️
The NP aura is for shooting only. If you want a Wanderers Battleline, go for Sisters for offense and Eternal Guard for defense.
The thing that all those Battleline you listed have in common is: They are all tougher than Wildwood rangers. And cheaper per wound.
I can see them filling the glass cannon role, but will they really outperform Sisters of the Watch? I highly doubt it, even when considering the points difference. And they both have the same situational Battleline.
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7 minutes ago, Landohammer said:
My meta has a lot of Bloodthirsters, Mortrarchs, Nagash, and scary Seraphon dinosaurs. A 260pt batteline unit that can pick up those models in one round of combat seems pretty decent to me!
I agree on the battalion though. We probably have one of the worst in the book.
The thing is, these monsters have a massive threat range (Bloodthirsters go up to like 46"?). You're only getting the charge on them if you deep-strike and roll an 8+ on an unprotected monster. Nagash will definitely have a screen, so will any Mortarch. They might seem appealing in theory, but they never live to hit things back, unlike Phoenix Guard.
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2 minutes ago, Landohammer said:
Fair point, and Phoenix Guard are definitely emerging as a frontrunner in Cities Battle-line choices. But 30pts is still a 23% price hike. Also their cheapest unlock character is a whopping 40pts more than a Nomad prince.
So even with just 20 guys and a general you are looking at a 100pt price difference.
Are they still worth it? Probably, but I would wince anytime my Phoenix guard end up fighting a monster lol.
Actually, the Nomad Prince is 20 points more than the Anointed. So for a NP and 20 WWR you're paying 380. For an Anointed and 20 PG you're paying 420. And the NP doesn't actually do anything for the WWR. The Anointed gives battleshock immunity and has a command ability giving them re-roll wound rolls. WWR are just rubbish.
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12 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:
But for 30 more points you get 10 Phoenix Guard who are offensively identical but far excel defensively.
Yeah. Wildwood Rangers are horrid. Both they and Executioners aren't worth their points, especially when we have much better options in Black Guard /Greatswords (offensive) and Phoenix Guard (defensive). The battalion is by far the worst one in Cities and shouldn't even be looked at in a competitive environment.
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Actually, we have one wizard with 2 casts that can receive the trait: Lord Arcanum on Tauralon! 🤯
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14 minutes ago, FRoper said:
In going for a magic casting general, to take advantage of the everliving druid trait, what magic user is best??
The only multi-cast wizard we have access to is Alarielle. And she can't take that trait. The only casters that have any bonuses are Sorceresses (+2 with sacrifice) and Battlemages (+1 with realm/Hurricanum or +2 with both)
So we aren't really spoiled for powerful casters. We simply have a lot of basic ones (Hallowheart makes them twice as efficient).
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On 10/19/2019 at 6:57 AM, swarmofseals said:
The build that I get stuck on is something like this:
Hurricanum with battlemage (280)
Runelord (general: hawkeye, artefact: crown of the patricians) (90)
30 Longbeards (shields) (270)
30 Irondrakes (450)
30 Irondrakes (450)
20 Irondrakes (retinue) (300)
Endless Spells: soulscream bridge
Extra Command Point
It feels bad not taking an adjutant, but this build isn't very CP hungry anyway and I think keeping the drops as low as possible is important.
Outside of a few specific matchup and battleplan combinations I don't really see how you are supposed to beat this army. The amount of damage that it deals on average is unreal. If you fail to cast bridge and you need to move to get in range you still do a really heavy amount of damage (6 mw, 1.62 r3, 26.74 r2, 38.88 r1), and the 3" bonus from Tempest Eye means your opponent is going to have a hard time keeping away. And you get all that while screening your army behind 30 wounds of 2+ save on the first turn, with a CP available to give reroll 1's to save if your opponent takes the first turn and alpha strikes. Even if your opponent is heavy shooting, all of your shooting also has a 2+ save on the first turn against missile attacks.
Maybe Changehost would beat this with crazy mortal wound spam?
That's about as optimal you can get the whole bridge-setup. You could go for a Wanderer/Aelf version of this with Sisters of the Watch, or go with Kharadron Arkanauts/Thunderers or Freeguild Crossbows/Handgunners or even Stormcast Ballistae/Raptors. The end result is about the same.
I'm running a similar list with a bit of Stormcast mixed in (sub-optimal as I was limited by which miniatures I had available) for a tournament this weekend.
The one thing I worry about with a list like this is the objective game. How do we cap multiple objectives? Might Shadow Warriors be the solution?
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12 hours ago, Landohammer said:
Yea if you bring Alarielle, I think you can easily trim a wizard. She brings 3 casts to the table. If you really want to have all of the Living City spells then consider Sisters of the Thorn since they can help you fill battle-line tax as well. They are about 30-40 more points than most wizards but you get a LOT of benefits for those points. (speed, shooting, larger wound pool, and their spell can really help SoTW stay alive)
Drycha is great in any list but Durthu really only shines in Sylvaneth lists. He is really reliant on Wyldwoods and Glade buffs to maximize his damage output. Without them he has to rely on 3 attacks plus an impale, and that just isn't cost effective for 340pts. I would much rather have frosty.
The hurricanum is great if you summon Hunters with bows but I think the Nomad Prince is more cost effective since he can fight well and has a very scary shooting attack for heroes.
Not sure if it has been mentioned in a while but also remember Alarielle can't use the Living City deepstrike mechanic. Her base is 6.25 inches 😭
Yeah, I think you have a point. Durthu might not be optimal. I have tried him with a blade of Hammerhal Ghyra or the Kurdroth Warhorn, Ironoak Artisan and Hurricanum for 4 attacks with 2+/2+ which was fun. But then he just stood there for the rest of the game, so I see what you mean. I'm thinking a dragon instead?
The thing about Sisters of the Thorn being battleline is only if your general is a Nomad Prince, and then you don't get the Ironoak Artisan CT. So I guess I could go with Phoenix, Drycha, 2x30 Sisters, Nomad Prince and some support. With the Nomad Prince as General I suppose I free up points from the battleline for other units. Is it worth giving up Ironoak Artisan on the Phoenix?List example:
SpoilerAllegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Living City
Nomad Prince (120)
- General
- Trait: Ironoak Artisan
Anointed of Asuryan on Flamespyre Phoenix (300)
- Artefact: Spear of the Hunt
Battlemage (90)
- Spell: Lore of Leaves - Cage of Thorns (Living City Wizard)
- City Role: General's Adjutant (Must be 6 wounds or less)
- Mortal Realm: Hysh
Drycha Hamadreth (320)
- Lore of Leaves: Ironoak Skin
20 x Sisters of the Watch (320)
- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
30 x Sisters of the Watch (480)
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (130)
- Spell: Lore of Leaves - Lifesurge (Living City Wizard)
10 x Eternal Guard (130)
10 x Shadow Warriors (110)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 112
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The Executioner thing. Again.
in Cities of Sigmar
Posted
That is exactly the reason. Needing to get 15 models in base-to-base is easier said than done, especially if fighting a more elite unit or monster. The 2 inch range means that the black guard only need 10 models in base contact to have full reach. That's 2/3 of the space needed for the same number of models (slighly less considering that it also increases sideways reach)
If they had a 2 inch range, I would definitely consider using my 60 Executioners who spend their days gathering dust on my shelf. Now they simply fall a bit short.. For MW, you're often better off using Greatswords or Hammerers. Hammerers are just one more point per model and have -1 rend. Sure, they do MW on wound rolls rather than hit rolls, but Executioners have been nerfed quite a lot. I used to run them with a Hurricanum, causing 2 MW on a 5+. A unit of 30 did a total of 50 MW in one attack for me once, average would be about 40MW if all 30 got in. Now the average is about 10MW if all 30 get in. The non-rend attacks hardly do much unless fighting stuff with very low saves.
I suppose they work for a more casual setting, but in competitive play, they just aren't worth their points. Just giving them rend or atleast 2" range would go a long way towards making them viable.
But, just because you took the time to make this post, I will give them a go next time I play.