[Balanced Path to Glory system]

1 hour ago, InterrogatingTheCat said:

Good luck on balancing it as GW certainly didn't pay any attention to it. A Beasts of Chaos army can start with a beastlord and 5 Jabberslythes if they want, or a Legion of Blood can take 1140 points with Blood Knights and a Vampire Lord. Meanwhile a Nighthaunt army is getting 620 points at best. 

So with my system if the beasts of chaos player plays against the nighthaunt one, he would only be allowed to play with 620 pts of jabberslythes+beastlord, I think it works

[Balanced Path to Glory system]

1 hour ago, EMMachine said:

I think the reason in case of the ogroid is because he is a 3 follower Champion and would be a 2 Followers choice (and maybe in case of heroes GW didn't wanted 2 follower Hero choices.

Yeah, that buffles me too.

I mean, I have made this list here in the other thread by looking at the pointcosts the models had during that list time:

 

There are huge parts where points are overlapping (mostly if you compare lists from 2016/17 and later once)

And for example I have thought that the Arch-Revenant of the Sylvaneth would get 4 followers because it costs 100 points, but it got 3 followers in the table.

So is this guy too cheap in AoS or what happened here?

Also Sylvaneth has a Elite follower Table but forgot to wrote the "2 slots or 1 slot + 1 Glory Point".

 

Especially in case of Path to Glory I have the feeling that it has to be either a yearly update release like the patched play points.

Or a online only pdf release that is updated if something changed.

I think others have already tried fanmade versions like this:

Or the Path to Glory Draft Rules Miniwargaming made:

Rules, Lists

I'm totally agree with you. Hopefully (maybe sometime) in the future Path to Glory has decent attention it deserves by GW. It's indeed a great and easy way to introduce new players to the game.

[Balanced Path to Glory system]

2 hours ago, EMMachine said:

Well, basicly all heroes have 1 follower less.

10 Tzaangors, 3 Tzaangors Enlightened and 3 Tzaangor Skyfires are Elite Followers (same ratio on D6)

3 Flamers and Burning Chariots are Elite Followeres (ratio 2:1 on the D6)

next to the 10 Acolytes there are now 5 Tzaangors as regular followers (ratio 2:1 on D6)

Brimstone Horrors and Blue Horrors are doubled, Pink Horrors have 2 Spots in the table and Exalted Flamer instead of Burning Chariot.

Ogroid Thaumasturge is a Champion now, removed from the Hero Follower Table, and the list has 2 entries for Gaunt Summoners (one with Familiars) instead of the Ogroid and one Tzaangor Shaman.

Those are basicly most changes the Path to Glory book had made.

The funny thing is after points had changed in 2018, the Tzaangor Shaman has less followers in Beasts of Chaos than in the Tzeentch list.

The main problem is, that lists aren't updated when points were changed (so the path to glory Book lists are basicly made with points from the Generals Handbook 2016 in mind while all later lists with the points of there own book) and when looking at the point differences the champions have in case of followered these are partly overlapping.

I had this in my thread here:

 

Wow those are important changes. Now I can't use my ogroid (what has no sense, ogroid thaumaturges are something like mercenaries on Tzeentch lore after all...)

It's really funny to see how GW keeps writting pages on battletomes for path to glory but at the same time they don't take care of the system at all 🤣

Thank you very much!

[Balanced Path to Glory system]

11 hours ago, Greyshadow said:

I think this is a great idea. The bigger army will have an advantage as it will have a larger roster to task organise from. Will be interesting to see how you get on.

That said, we are planning on throwing caution to the wind and playing some unbalance games. If I am greatly outclassed, I’ll just try and see how long I can hold out. We are planning a reduced length campaign of around four battles per army though.

I'll report the results of the idea! With so few games probably you won't have many balancing problems, good luck!

2 hours ago, EMMachine said:

When your Gaunt Summoner can have 5 Followers you are using an outdated table. (this is the case because it was for the Rules of the Generals Handbook 2016, where Elite followers didn’t exist yet.

In the last Path to Glory (May 2017) book has an updated list with elite followers (or in case of Tzaangors Beasts of Chaos had charged some stuff again).

Sadly for example Blades of Khorne copy & pasted the old list from the same time that has too many followers and no Elite followers.

Oh, I didn't know that, I'll have to check it out.

Do you know by chance how is the tzeentch table? The friend that has the book is on vacation 😂😂

[Balanced Path to Glory system]

37 minutes ago, PensivePanther said:

Hello DarrinTheOccult. I think your suggestion is a fine idea for bringing a modicum of balance to Path to Glory. Unfortunately I think a group that plays Paths to Glory just need to be able to find the fun in throwing two unbalanced armies at one another (something I'd wager most gaming groups find difficult). 

My only other suggestions would be to allow the player with the smaller point value pick the terrain or even setup the table to give them a different kind of advantage. Or ally in x number of points from a buddies list who is also playing in the same grand alliance. Or switch it up every time! Its all about the story right?

Happy gaming.

Yeah, you're right in the beginning, but if the campaign keeps being more and more unbalanced each battle, it is just not fun. No one likes not having even an opportunity to win hehe

I'd share all of that in my group, thanks!

[Balanced Path to Glory system]

Hi everyone, we're  trying  a Path to glory campaign in our playing club.

After we played the first game and having selected the units with the given method. We just realise that it was just too much unbalanced. I play DoT and according to my battletome, if I choose for example a Gaunt summoner as my champion, I  get 5 units. These 5 units can be all pink horrors, tzaangors or even skyfires, while another guy with his Nighthaunt could have a couple of 10 chainrasps, 4 banshees, his champion and 3 spirit hosts.

If you are good enough at maths, that means I could start with like a 1000pts approx army, while he barely could reach 600pts. I think this difference can be produced because my book is much older and doesn't have the "that unit needs 2 rolls for getting it" thing. However, even if we try to adapt the older battletomes to that system, there are always unbalancing issues.

I have to say that we play with allegiance abilities, but we may not take artefacts or command traits (only spells and objects like the lantern of the guardian of souls) as we get objects for the champion while the campaign advances.

The problem of path to glory is the reward system. We all can agree, that is not really fair that someone can have an extra unit instead of an extra ability for the champion or for some unit. If you play in the way of choosing your reward, no one will never get the last ones and it takes the campaign feeling away. But making it random is not much better.

So we thought a little system that can make it fun and balanced at the same time. When you face an opponent, you have to play with the lower amount of points total of the two armies (for example if you have in total 700 pts and your foe 900 pts, you play a 700 pts game), and the one with more points can choose from all his units which the ones that will participate in battle. That way the opponent has as much the advantage of having more units to choose, but doesn't swap you in the game. Besides that, if you get a unit ability reward, you can only give it to one that participated in the battle.

We of course preffer the random reward system as it makes it funnier, but what do you think about it? Have you thought a better balancing system?

[Inspiring Presence - Bad for the game?]

22 hours ago, Nacnudllah said:

I don't know that I think Inspiring Presence is too powerful, but it certainly is really annoying and bit demoralizing.  I've seen a lot of proposals, but I haven't seen anyone mention having it double the unit's Bravery, which I think would be a good way to provide near immunity, but having it scale with the unit's Bravery and also leave them vulnerable to Bravery modifiers.

That would be awesome, but there's still the problem of  aura abilities that some armies have.

 

 

The problem with all of this I see is that I don't think GW would rework all that system of two armies like skaven or gloomspite that have had their battletome released this year. It's GW you know 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

1 hour ago, AresX8 said:

 

And that's exactly what I covered in the latest Storm of Blood: 

EDIT:

Also, @kozokus, I played a test Bloodmad Warband list, this time with 2x5 Wrathmongers and deployed them aggressively; they were one of the first units I deployed and then formed the rest of the army around them. This was much, much more noticeable and they were relevant most of the game. I suggest trying that next time you play.

I'm gonna have a look at it, thanks!

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

6 hours ago, kozokus said:

It is good on the paper but it is hard tu put in place in the actual game for the following reasons :

-The unit of 6 is absolutely huge and hard to fit between your other models scenery etc.

-All your models have to reach the enemy, which is hard with such large base. (to act at full potential)

-Once in combat, without any buff, you have something like 25 attacks with only seven that can produce mortals and have rend. that is a bit low compared to 20 attacks for a 100 points unit of dogs. Plus with your large base, it means that not all your models can fight.

-You loose your charge bonus the moment you loose one model, which isn't hard with only 4 wounds and a 4+ save.

-You only have 8 movement, it might seems good but there are things much faster in the game, so you are not THAT fast.

Don't misunderstand me, this unit is worth its points, but only because it is cheap enough. Just don't imagine that this unit is an elite tranpler. Like all the Khorne units, it needs heavy support. Sadly, the best support you can give them is the pile in 6" which negate the charge bonus. You have to rely on full rerolls from WOKBT +1 armor and +1 to hit prayer.

Strangely it is one of the few Khorne units that lack the innate reroll charge.

I see, that sort of things is what I have to test for the army

 However for 40 pts more than the hounds you're getting +1 to save and 2 wounds more. Maybe in a murderhost could fit as a second wave unit, although they would pile in at 6" (which helps the large base problem), charging something that  other MSU blodletters or flesh hounds have engaged looks good to me.

In my list I was thinking on 2 bloodthirsters so the second one can be de WOKBT to give the bonus to them, as the bloodletters with a slaughterpriest and +1 to hit for having +20 makes them to repeat only the 1s. What do you think?

[Inspiring Presence - Bad for the game?]

3 hours ago, Lucur said:

As a current meta thing, IP doesn't do that much, as any army vulnerable to battleshock has other means to negate battle shock (looking at you, Verminlord Warpseer!).

I don't like the "nope" feel of it, imo there should be a roll or a scaling effect of some sort involved, instead of an autopass. Reroll seems to weak, a fixed number seems to arbitrary, changing the roll to a 1 is the most compelling proposal i've heard so far (and shouldn't trigger abilities like daemons getting models back, because it's not an unmodified roll. Those rules are worded that way, right? RIGHT??? ^^). Maybe ignore battleshock on a 4+ or some such could work.

In fact both daemon abilities would be triggered: the one that adds more daemons and the one that makes the foe repeat battleshock tests of 1. 

I also think that the change the roll to 1 thing would work better, but IMO they should add a rule that specifies that none abilities could be triggered for the purposes of IP

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

7 hours ago, Troll.exe said:

If you run a murderhost, take a bloodthirster of unfettered fury as one of the two. His command ability lets you pile in and attack from 6”. Then you can run, rather then charge with your +2 from you murderhost, your entire daemon hoard, hounds, bloodletters etc up to between 3 1/2 and 6”.

The 16” bubble on the command ability easily gives you  room to fit everything. Almost like an army wide first strike. You decide what to pile in first and therefore what will be able to retaliate etc. 

I didn't thought about that, it looks interesting to test 🤔 I'll try it thanks!

About what I've read, why are bloodcrushers not worth it? The +2 for d3 mortal wounds each on charge for units of 6 seems pretty good to me 

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

9 minutes ago, Charleston said:

Well, the mentioned Gorepilgrims are just neat for the range bubble of the Secrator but not necessary. You could also use Reapers of Vengence for this one, with an battatlion so you can take an additional Artifct, and take the "On 4+-Halo-Of-Blood" that you can combine with the Reapers of Vengence "Fight Twice" Ability. Double the Fun for the Bloodletters, but also only 50% Reliability on Fightning first

What about 2 bloodthirsters and 30 bloodletters looking for a murderhost? Would that work efficiently?

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

14 hours ago, PivotalCar said:

Cool! Like you mentioned you defiantly want a bloodsecrator and 2/3 priests. These are staples in any Khorne list. If you are playing daemons then there are basically 2 ways you can go. 

Option 1- Bloodthirster spam

Pretty simple, get 4 bloodthirsters, reapers of vengeance, tyrants of blood and watch your opponents cry. This is certainty as close to Khorne gets competitively, so it is good if you want to go to tournaments. For battleline you could go with either bloodletters or flesh hounds, either works

Option 2- Bloodletter bomb

Get gore pilgrims (you will need some mortals), bloodmaster, the halo of blood, and 30 letters. Bam, that's a lotta mortal wounds before the other guy can even strike back. This is list is hard, but probably more fun than the one above, and it feels like more of a daemonic horde. 

If you are unsure, just start collecting models but avoid the traps. Skull cannon is bad. Skull throne is bad. The herald on juggernaut is bad. The mounted daemons are way bad, Karanak is okay, Skarbrand is mainly for memes. Hell, just get bloodletters, bloodletter heroes, flesh hounds, and thirsters. Maybe a cheeky Skarbrand.  

Remember to shout Blood for the Blood God at every opportunity. 

Oh the first one looks a little bit expensive for my wallet 😂

The second one looks fine to me, except maybe for the fact of adding mortals. The bloodsecrator and the slaughterpriests can be easily converted to be daemon-like but so many bodies can be a pain in the ass.

Thank you for the answer! I'll get it all in mind

[AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion]

Hi everyone, I'm probably getting the khorne part of Wrath and Fury set, but I know little or less about the army. What I know is I like the aesthetic of Khorne daemons and I would prefer to go without mortals (although I know I'd need probably a couple of Slaghterpriests and a Bloodsecrator, but nothing that a conversion can't do)

I'm not really a competitive person, but I don't want neither to get swept, so if you could help me with the next steps from there I would be very grateful 😁

[AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion]

What do you guys think about this list? It combines Tzeentch mortals and arcanites

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
- Runestaff
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch
Ogroid Thaumaturge (180)
- General
- Trait: Illusionist 
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
- Artefact: Aspect of Tzeentch 
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160)
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future

15 x Chaos Warriors (270)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
10 x Chaos Warriors (180)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
30 x Tzaangors (480)
- 7x Pair of Savage Blade
- 12x Savage Greatblade
- 11x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Chaos Glaives
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (220)

Total: 1990 / 2000