Browncoat89
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Posts posted by Browncoat89
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2 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:
I think the Warhost is a very good option. The extra bravery and also the rerolling hits of 1 in melee for the dudes who don't move is useful, especially coupled with Standard's rerolling wounds of 1 in unmoved melee for them. Probably better with more models though. Especially if Draz is there with his ignoring battleshock ability bubble (that's a good one).
That said, I will never argue against a Tauruk! He can form the center of the trident that is the Skullcracker, himself, and the Kdaii.
As for the general, I might recommend the Daemonsmith for that. He's arguably more valuable being a wizard and has the Ashstorm power. For your Castellan I recommend trying the Thermalrider Cloak, which is fluffy, and good for him to make him faster to be in range sooner for his ability.
That's right I forgot I can make my Daemonsmith my general and still use the Castellan's Martial Contempt command ability now as well. The new book has quite a few changes I'm still getting used to.
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Hey guys! It's been a while since I've played or posted, life has been so busy. I'm going to the first tounrament in over a year and a half though so I was gonna post my list here and get some feedback. It is super different from what I normally run which is a list maxed out on war machines and artillery. I used to run 2 Irondaemons, a Skullcracker, and 4 artillery (either 2 mortars and 2 magma cannons or just spam 4 magma cannons) in almost every list. I'm trying to run more infantry to claim objectives now. I also know for a fact from the tournament packet that the first match will be fought in the realm of shadows so there is a very good chance that shooting range will be limited and people will be dropping in the back field.
The matches are:
- Border War - Realm of Shadows
- Total Conquest - Realm of Beasts (No monsterous beast added)
- Star Strike - Realm of Life
Allegiance: Legion of Azgorh
Leaders
Drazhoath the Ashen (320)
Infernal Guard Castellan (120)
- General
- Darkforged Weapon & Spiteshield
- Trait: Grotesque
- Artefact: Armour of Bazherak the Cruel
Infernal Guard Battle Standard Bearer (100)
Daemonsmith (100)
- Darkforged Weapon
Battleline
30 x Infernal Guard Ironsworn (240)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
Units
6 x K'Daai Fireborn (280)
War Machines
Skullcracker War Engine (200)
Magma Cannon (140)
Magma Cannon (140)
Total: 1840 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 118
I have 160 points left which I was either going to put towards a Bull Centaur Taur'ruk or toward the Blackshard Warhost battalion. I haven't ever felt like the warhost was worth it but I'm wondering if the extra command point, one less drop, and extra magic item (Chalice of Blood and Darkness to shut down some enemy casting) might outweight the mediocre battalion buffs. I suppose I could also use the 160 points for a 3rd magma cannon and use the last 20 points for an endless spell or something. I'm totally open to advice, feedback, and criticism. Since it has been so long since I have played I could really use the help, I haven't even played with the 2018 General's Handbook yet, lol. -
10 hours ago, mattbarker said:
I feel like it will - but only because they'd be wrong and would be trying to argue around it.
The rule snippet you quoted above clarifies everything IMO. Fair enough, mortal wound allocated, all that really means is a wound that you don't get to try and save. Beyond that its just a number of wounds to allocate so the rule should apply regardless. I think after careful "explanation (perhaps with a hammer)" they'll accept
Yeah especially since the Soul Wars core book simply defines mortal wounds as wounds you "Do not make hit, wound or save rolls for". This is not a save roll. idk, I feel like it could be contested a little bit about if a mortal wound is treated like a normal wound as it is allocated vs after it is allocated and if that means only after a unit has already actually taken the damage from it, but yes I agree I think most of the case supports this use for it.
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3 minutes ago, NemoVonUtopia said:
Yah, I thought that it would be really bad, but after two games I've realized that taking d3-1 wounds isnt too bad. And at least if the shots roll is average or below average there is not downside.
So there is a pretty strong indication then that it should definitely work on mortal wounds since the core book says "after a mortal wound is allocated it is treated as any other wound for the purposes of rules"? or is this something that might cause arguments?
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That means we will actually probably be able to shoot at 4d6 more than we used to.
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Oh you guys! More power now happens in the shooting phase not the hero phase! Paired with the battle trait that shrugs the first wound of the shooting that's huge!
That means there should be no reason not to fire at 4d6 every shooting phase with your Irondaemons! It is almost guarenteed to not take any other wounds in its own shooting phase which means if you get more power there is a 33% chance it won't take any damage at all by rolling a 1 and shrugging it off. 66% chance it'll only take one wound or less for double the shots.
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I know it is discontinued but part of me does still wonder why the Skullcracker has never been allowed to be taken as part of the artillery train battalion. Not even last edition while they had the model out. I don't know if it matters much anymore though, I'm not sure I'll take them much with how more power works now. Although I have considered doing it with the emerald lifesward endless spell moving around the army and just taking the mortal wounds hoping to heal them again.
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Yes, reading the new Soul Wars book it does say that battle traits are army wide. So it does seem like Blackshard Armor is an army wide thing. That is pretty big!
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38 minutes ago, mattbarker said:
Not sure either, as far as I can see the taur'ruuk has lost an attack not gained new ones!
He might be refering to the command trait that allows a hero (Tau'ruk) to pile in and attack a 2nd time on a 5+ if he is attacking a hero or monster. That's all I can think of. That combined with the +1 to hit from the battalion, and +1 to hit from the Taur'ruk command ability, could have the whole battalion hitting on 2's rerolling 1's.
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2 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:
I think you are mistaken. The artefacts of the realms can be taken by anyone who declares their army is from that realm. The spells, on the other hand, are tied to the realm that the battle is taking place in. All wizards on both sides know all spells of the realm where the battle is taking place. And that assumes you are using the realm rules in Malign Sorcery -- it's not at all clear that tournaments will use these rules.
Oh you're right I was thinking of the artefacts, my mistake.
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1 hour ago, swarmofseals said:
I'm not really sure what to make of these changes. Having the army not be invalidated entirely is obviously nice, of course. The rest though seems like a mixed bag.
Fireglaives - Improved
Previously a unit of 10 Fireglaives would do an average of 3.39 rend 1 damage against non-monsters and 5.08 rend 1 damage against monsters. Assuming you just don't take a Deathmask at all, 10 Fireglaives do an average of 1.94 mortal wounds and 2.92 rend 1 damage when standing still and 1.67 mortal wounds and 2.5 rend 1 damage when on the move.
So basically we lose the reroll 1's for saves against shooting and the naptha bomb in exchange for an overall substantial improvement in damage. If you use my weighting system for rend and mortal wounds, Fireglaives now are basically as efficient as if they were firing at monsters even when on the move. When standing still they are markedly more efficient. Under the old system bonuses to wound or rerolls to wound from the castellan and/or BSB have more of an impact than they do now, but I still think it's an unmitigated improvement. Fireglaives are also marginally better in melee.
Ironsworn - Mixed bag, mostly worse
No more reroll 1's against ranged, but spiteshields are slightly better as they trigger regardless of rend. That said, the shields also don't benefit from cover bonuses or other boosts to save. Small squads are cheaper now by 10 points but the massive regiment cost is unchanged. The champion also lost his bonus attack.
Battle Standard - Improved
Doesn't need to plant banner, gives both bonuses and ranges on both bonuses are improved, albeit the bravery bonus is "wholly within" now.
Castellan - Mixed bag, mostly worse
Lost spiteshield and armor rerolls as well as the great weapon option. Being able to use the command ability even if not the general is great, but the command ability matters less now that fewer things scale off the wound roll. Also, this command ability improvement is a change in the basic rules and not the warscroll specifically, so it's hard to call that an improvement. He would have been much better off had his warscroll stayed the same.
Daemonsmith - Mixed bag
Blood of Hashut is better, but I'm not sure how often a Daemonsmith will be close enough to use it and survive long enough to use it more than once. Ash Storm is both better and worse. It suppresses running better and the long range is excellent, but it's now only -1 to hit penalty instead of -2.
Bull Centaur Renders - Mixed bag, mostly worse
Lost weapon options including the best one. Now gets +1 to charge inherently without the Taur'ruk. The problem is that these guys just aren't very efficient. Both their defensive and offensive efficiency and speed are all merely OK. They don't really stand out in any way. Even the buff from the Taur'ruk command ability their offensive efficiency doesn't impress.
Bull Centaur Taur'ruk - Sidegrade
The major change is the command ability, which now buffs hit rolls instead of allowing run and charge. This mostly seems worse to me, but in some situations it will be better. I'll call it a wash.
K'daii Fireborn - Mixed bag, mostly better
They gained an attack but lost reroll 1's to hit. Overall this is a slight upgrade, and a more substantial one if you have some other way to give them reroll 1's to hit. Kiss of fire is slightly weaker offensively but no longer hits your own units. Overall their offensive efficiency is similar to BCR (relatively unremarkable but not bad either).
Burning Bright is totally different now. Before, K'daii would be at their best against rendless troops but now they are actually weak against chaff attacks while being relatively stronger against high rend. The good news is that they are 20 points cheaper now as well. Before they were 4.44 points per effective wound against rend 0 and 13.33 points per effective wound against rend 2. Now they are 7.78 points per effective wound against all non-mortal damage.
Before they had a clear role in tying down and cleaning up chaff. The bonus against rend - combined well with their damaging but non-rendy attacks. Now they are a bit more consistent across the board but kinda work at cross purposes unless you can get them stuck in against something that has both high rend and low armor (a relative rarity).
Iron Daemon - Mixed bag, unsure
Crushing bulk doesn't fall off quite as steeply. The big change is in "More Power!". Before this worked pretty reliably until the ID had taken a fair bit of damage and then became rather unusable. Now you can use it any time (you get the bonus attacks even if you take damage) but are very likely to take damage if you boost it up to 4d6 and still reasonably likely to take damage even at 3d6. It is worth noting, however, that the new battle trait really helps here. You're unlikely to take any other damage in your own shooting phase, so really this is now d3-1 damage rather than d3 damage.
I think without the battle trait it'd be a clear nerf, but with it I'm really not sure. It might even be a slight buff.
Skullcracker - Nerfed (probably)
Unlike the Iron Daemon, I'm pretty sure this one is a straight nerf. The default number of attacks is now simply lower than before, and although the number of attacks doesn't fall off with damage anymore the wound roll does instead. It can be scaled up to be as good as it was previously, but at the cost of very likely taking damage. I think the Skullcracker will perform worse for most of its lifespan but will perhaps bit a little better when almost dead.
Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher - Mostly buffed
The removal of minimum range is a straight up buff. The daemonsmith bonus has changed from +1 to hit to +1 attack. In the case where you aren't targeting a 10+ model unit, the average damage is exactly the same. The bonus vs. large units is now +1 to hit instead of reroll 1's to wound. If no daemonsmith is present the average damage is improved from 2.34 to 2.67. With a daemonsmith present, the average damage is improved from 3.12 to 3.55. The only loss here is the -1 bravery debuff.
Dreadquake Mortar - Nerfed
I really don't understand why this needed to be nerfed so badly. The removal of minimum range is nice, and while most are reacting to slave ogre changes as a nerf, the math doesn't quite bear that out so clearly. Before, whipping the ogre would lead to an average of .591 successful wounds (before save and damage roll) and an average of .33 mortal wounds taken. Now it leads to an average of .741 successful wounds (before save and damage roll) but an average of .66 mortal wounds taken (note that this assumes a daemonsmith is in proximity). Note that you can also whip the ogre even if there is no daemonsmith present.
On the downside, the model now is 4+ to hit, but gets +1 to hit with a Daemonsmith present. The big nerf though is that instead of 2d6 damage against large units it's now d6 with a reroll. So before it was 7 damage on average, now it's 4.5 on average (albeit with a lower standard deviation). The ability to suppress running has been lost completely.
And it's 20 points more expensive. Even when firing at large units with a Daemonsmith present the efficiency is mediocre at best
Magma Cannon - Nerfed (very slightly, but may actually be better anyway)
Basically unchanged, now +1 to the magma roll instead of roll 2 and pick the highest. +1 is an average of 4.17 mortal wounds, while roll 2 and pick the highest is an average of 4.28.
It's worth noting though that in the new edition the Magma Cannon is even more tactically valuable as it doesn't get penalized by "Look Out, Sir!". This is one of a very few shooting attacks left that is still fantastic for character sniping.
Drazhoath The Ashen - Nerfed (I know this will be controversial)
There are basically three changes in play here. His blazing body ability is better, but that's not really a huge part of his warscroll. The second change is that he has a command ability, which is a strict upgrade. The command ability is a relatively narrow one, however, as it's only particularly helpful if there are multiple units taking battleshock wholly within 24" of him. It may be that this will turn out to be quite good -- I think it depends a lot on your list.
The big problem is that the Hellshard Amulet was heavily nerfed. Instead of negating any wound or mortal wound on a 5+ it now only negates wounds made by melee weapons. That's even worse than only working in the combat phase!
Shar'Tor The Executioner - Sidegrade
Darktide reaping is now better and he has a built in +1 to charge rolls. His mask and command ability both changed dramatically. The command ability is certainly more dramatic now and makes up for the change of the Taur'ruk's command ability. I'd say overall it's quite a bit more powerful. The Mask of the Executioner turned from a one-shot horde buster with a side of charge buffing to a reusable mortal wound generator. The top end of the mask is lower than before, but it should be a lot more reliable. My main concern is that the mask no longer really adds something new that the army can't already do (with the horde wiping potential) as the mask is now somewhat redundant with what Magma Cannons continue to do well.
Still though, my impression is that this guy is better particularly if you are taking a centaur heavy army.
Blackshard Warhost - Depends on how you look at it
It's 20 points cheaper, but the bonus now only applies to melee attacks. I can't really guess as to whether +1 Bravery or reroll battleshock is better. Of course, the reroll 1's to hit ability when not moving is now native to Fireglaives so there isn't really any loss here. It just adds less than it used to (not that it was particularly good to begin with).
Hashut's Wrath Artillery Train - Sidegrade
It's just totally different now. -80 points, no bonuses to run and charge rolls or rerolls on 1's to hit. Now it basically gives your Daemonsmith infinite range for its war-machine bonuses. If you want the extra command point and artefact then sure, go for it.
Execution Herd - New
Allegiance Package - New
This is new, so in some ways it's an upgrade. It really has to be compared against the generic Chaos allegiance package though. I haven't seen what's changed in GHB2018 yet, so it's hard to comment. Blackshard armor is interesting and encourages an MSU approach to list building. Burning skies will be garbage some of the time and fantastic some of the time. Fireball is nice, but it's not that great compared to an entire spell lore. Of course, if they had given us access to the lore of Aqshy regardless of realm, then that'd have been a really big game (probably OP as the lore of Aqshy is so good). Relentless and Grotesque are both OK but nothing to write home about. The Armor is nice but I'm pretty sure there is a realm artefact that does exactly the same thing.
All in all I'm very underwhelmed by these abilities and wouldn't be surprised if generic Chaos ends up being better (unless flying heavy armies become very popular).
We gained access to Monsters of Chaos as allies but lost access to Brayherds and Warherds.
Overall I don't think things have changed drastically at least from a competitive standpoint. The new stuff is definitely great from a "rule of cool" perspective, particularly the Execution Herd. I fear though that competitively the army is getting narrower and narrower. I'm having a hard time imagining anything aside from massed Magma Cannons and Fireglaives being competitive. Something like 9x10 Fireglaives, a BSB, a Daemonsmith, 4 Magma Cannons and 2 Jabberslythes seems like it could do some work, but I'm not really sure that it's even all that good.
I believe any army can use the lore of any realm if they just thematically state they are from that realm. That was the point of the realm spell lores was to give everyone a big bag to pick from (only one realm at a time though of course).
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Hey guys! Allegience abilities, artefacts, slight points drop, new battalion with the bull centaurs check out the love!!
AoS 2 - Legion Of Azgorh Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
Do you guys think just taking the Tauruk would be better than the Martial Contempt command ability that could buff the whole army? I was just thinking +1 to wound could be really nasty to add to 6 K'daai, the skullcracker, and all the infantry that's all.