Baron Wastelands
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Posts posted by Baron Wastelands
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2 hours ago, TheBluMnM said:
Hey All! Quick question - I have 5 of the warpfire thrower teams from the IoB kit, and I want to convert some to Ratling Gunners for a little bit of list diversity. I know it will vary from list to list, but IN GENERAL would you guys recommend I have 2 Warpfire and 3 Gunners, or 3 Warpfire and 2 Gunners? I don't have plans to convert Jezzails at the moment, so RG would make up most of my long range fire support (Not including a WLC)
Thanks!
I think, as a very general response, I’d go for 3 ratling guns, just so you can maximise overseer of destruction as a command trait (on a Skryre general) should you wish to, and also one spark hits all 3. Sparks won’t help warpfire or a wlc.
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31 minutes ago, Kiwanis said:
A second quick question - I know the new rules for stormfiend weapon selection, however I am wondering if you are able to mix and match between the same equipment "bundles" in bigger units.
I.e. 6 Stormfiends - 1 rattling gun, 1 grinderfist, 1 shockfist, 1 ball of death fist, and 2 warp fire throwers... OR do you have to choose between 2 rattling guns or 2 grinderfists.
Thanks!
I think you can only do 2,2,2. It says “a third of... can be armed with one of ...” rather than with any of. Most of the time, you’re better off with multiples anyway.
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1 hour ago, Danny76 said:
Certainly at first only 1000 points or so.
My friend has renewed interest in Beasts of Chaos and is thinking of trying AoS now because of it.
So we may look at 1500/2000 eventually I suppose.
But that’s where I think I may start lacking/falling behind..
I think you would be fine; at present, until we get an update, you have all the bones anyway. The key winners at the moment are big blocks of 12 ogors (think bulls, with a discount for taking 12), tyrants (can dish out serious damage when geared properly, multiple tyrants is a thing), and then either ironguts or allied maneaters as your (smaller - I run in 6s, some run in 3s) hammer units. Butchers are good, better with a cauldron (think skragg). Leadbelchers offer a bit more flexibility, bit of ranged and a bit of melee, but don’t excel at either. Big units of gnoblars (40/60) can make a good tarpit, especially since a tyrant can make them immune to battle shock (running away). The ironblaster is a bit weak at present, and the scraplauncher is not much better, but every iteration has its ups and downs I guess
Gorgers ... are still models that don’t fit with the range. Some things don’t change.
At 1k, take a tyrant and then a block of 12 ogors. After that, either a butcher + 3 ironguts + 3 ogors, or maybe try a second tyrant and 6 leadbelchers and see how you get on
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1 hour ago, BalborBullguts said:
So just curious what people think of my list (not fully collected yet but the plan so far) - The general idea is to have the bulls to soak up damage with Bully Of The First Degree plastered on them for bravery, and using the ironguts to provide the killing charge
I chose two smaller ranks of guts so they would run away a lot less as a larger unit has more to lose and it doesn't at that scale seem to have any particular benefit! I haven't played a match yet as I haven't collected enough minis, so am happy for any tips or advice
Tyrant (160)
- General
- Pair of Clubs, Bashers or Slicers
3 x Ironguts (180)
3 x Ironguts (180)
12 x Ogors (400)
- Pairs of Ogor Clubs or Blades
Total: 920 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 80Sound plan. For the extra 80 pts, I’d ally in 4 frost sabres, I think; or a gorger if you want to stay pure Gutbusters. If you find you lack magic, you could always swap out one unit of ironguts instead, and add a butcher plus 3 ogors. Ogors aren’t as hard hitting, but can still deal with non-armoured targets, especially on the charge, and the butcher buffs can help all.
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18 minutes ago, Kimhot said:
Are you sure the Damage is 3,5 for the wlc unbuffed? Since It is not "just" 1d6 you have the chance og getting 0 mw (you roll a 6 with the first dice and then 0 6 with your next)
Therefore there are 7 outcomes and not 6 as normal. Without having done the math i Think the Damage is lower
You essentially have to do averages of averages. If you roll a 1, you will average (well, you will get!) 6 mortal wounds. If you roll a 6, you will average 1 mw (I.e. you will roll one 6 in 6 dice on average). There are way more than 6 outcomes, but 6 average outcomes corresponding with the first d6 roll.
That’s why the average is 3.5, but also why you have a higher probability of high or low damage. (E.g. the probability of getting max output of 6 mw is 1 in 6 - not bad odds. If you mmwl, the odds of max 12 mw is still 1 in 6 because of the peculiarity of the way damage is calculated. The chance of 0 mws is different.)
MAX output is however 12 mw in one turn, which I didn’t adjust above! Grrr, give me back hit and wound rolls! So 12 in one turn, 24 over 2 turns while it destroys itself. Compared to 12 (vs 4+ Sv) in one turn for 4 max power jezzails, 18 over 2 turns, while they destroy themselves too.
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4 minutes ago, FPC said:
Would be cool to see a true BCR wizard and spell lore. I’d always really like to see a firebelly unit, but I’m not sure if that’s in the lore.
With BCR, you could easily give huskards prayers, and something like judgements if you wanted to.
As for firebellies, let’s be honest, they weren’t in the lore first time
Someone made a fire breathing ogre model, and they came up with hokey fluff about eating volcanos. So wouldn’t be hard to do it again
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1 hour ago, FPC said:
All rumors and conjecture at this stage. Lot of people seem to be hopeful, mostly that we’ll see either a combined Ogors+BCR book, or a separate Ogor book that rolls Gutbuster, Firebelly, and Maneater together. I personally hope for Ogor and BCR to remain different factions.
1 hour ago, Walrustaco said:Personally, I will take literally anything I can get. I'm easy.
1 hour ago, FPC said:Fair. Anything that makes Ogors playable would be nice. Look at Gloomspite. You can play all goblin, all squig, all trolls, or anywhere in between. Wouldn’t be bad to have all those options in the Ogor sense.
To be honest, after Gloomspite, I tend to agree. Whereas I would like to retain Gutbusters as an individual faction with an individual flavour (and the same for BCR), this is essentially still true for dankhold, squigs, etc. And I have separate armies for each of those, it doesn’t harm anything that I can also field the whole lot together. Like a mini alliance, really. Key bit is that each has their own command abilities, artefacts, etc. The only thing that doesn’t quite fit is the terrain piece, but that works better for skaven. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t holding out hope for a maw pit though
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20 minutes ago, Primes said:
What do you mean when advising to increase the WLC Damage with a Spark. I was under the impression, that Sparks only increase the damage characteristic of weapons. Something that the WLC and Warpfire are lacking..
Hmm, I think I have confused the damage characteristic of the melee attack on the wlc when doing the calculation. You’re right, in that you can’t spark the mw of the cannon (I made the assumption correctly when calculating the jezzails, in that a natural 6 would only cause 2 mw, not 2+1). In which case halve the numbers for the wlc after the initial calculation, and you have:
unbuffed: 3.5
mmwl: 7, but suffers average of 4 wounds a turn
over 2 turns, 14 mw destroying itself.
max output 28 wounds a turn, 56 over 2 turns.
That does look more sensible, good catch!
so the wlc is better when overpowered than jezzails with full buffs, but they will kill themselves quickly. Interestingly, that changes the position when jezzails are just sparked, in that 4 sparked jezzails will do around 6 wounds against save 4+, whereas unbuffed wlc will do 3.5 on average. The deviation is different, in that a wlc will be more likely to do more and less.
The choice I think comes down to how prepared you are to overcharge and burn your own units down. Burst damage, the wlc is still better over 2 turns, but sustained, the jezzails are probably better.
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1 hour ago, Kimhot said:
I really wanna knowhow the math on WLC vs Jezzails.
I got a 1000 list to make in a Coop match. I Play with dok so the idea is that i supply the ranged and mw from spells.
So far i got a Skyre list with 2 bombardier, 1 doomwheel, 2x20 clanrats and 1 wlc. I could go another doomwheel of some Jezzails. However the points dont match Up as i would like 6 Jezzails and the list then comes to 1060.
Happy to oblige, but giving average output for a wlc is not quite comparable, as it is very swingy. That said:
on average, a WLC will do 3.5 (mortal) wounds a turn. With a spark, this is 7 mw. With mmwl (its own ability) as well that’s 14 mw, but you’re gonna break your cannon in (on average) 2 shots. No command traits/artefacts will help.
A single jezzail (when not moving) will average just over 1 wound a turn. (1 and 1/9). Before any saves, but includes the possibility of mortals). With a spark, this is 1 and 1/2. With an injector as well, it’s 1 and 7/9, but you’re losing a jezzail a turn. With mmwp as well it’s 2 and 5/36 (say 2 and 1/7) wounds a turn each, but now you’re losing 2 jezzail a turn as well (though you can move again!).
now a wlc is 180 points, and jezzail are 140 for 3. So closest comparison is 4 jezzail for every 1 wlc.
Without any buffs, that’s 3.5 wlc vs 4.45 jezzails (though some can be saved at -2 rend; e.g. against 4+ save, this is approximately 4 wounds). So unbuffed and unsparked the jezzails look slightly better in most cases. Once you spark them, the wlc starts to pull ahead quickly.
On max power (all possible buffs) both units will destroy themselves within 2 turns. But the wlc will deliver 28 mortal wounds, the jezzails about 12 and a 1/2 wounds (some mortal).
Note that these are averages, as I said at the start, the WLC is more swingy than jezzails. However, the max damage output of 4 jezzails fully buffed in one turn is 12 wounds (18 over the two turns that 4 would wipe themselves out) whereas the max output of a wlc is 56 mortal a turn (112 over the two turns it wipes itself out). Unlikely, but it’s there!
Hope that helps. In terms of your list, if you already have 2 bombardier, 1 doomwheel, 2x20 clanrats and 1 wlc, I think I’d simply go with another wlc. If the exercise is to squeeze the jezzails in, I’d either drop a bombardier, or restart
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2 hours ago, Nicorko said:
I was thinking about a 1k bcr list for a campaign that was
1 husk on tt leader vuitre
everwinter masterand 2 sh beastraider with vulture both
What artifact would you recommend? I do not think the amulet will be useful to me, because except for 4+
The gryph-feather charm is great on a thunderhusk, as it stacks with chill. I would also consider charngar’s pelt from BCR, as coupled with the (self) healing ability of the thunderhusk you can heal your ‘tusk for an average of 2.5 wounds a turn; which can really help keep those mortal wound snowballs coming thick and fast, especially if your opponent has some plink attacks to chip away at his damage table, rather than a full on gunline.
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1 hour ago, basement dweller said:
A big(er) moulder hero would be nice...make the hand to hand artefacts potentially useful. Dont think that will be happening anytime soon...so its rabid crown and/or realm artefacts i guess. The doppleganger cloak seems like a great one for models you dont want fighting anyways...
Doppelgänger cloak has been errata’d to be once per game, so less useful. Rabid Crown is absolutely the way to go, turns a Master Moulder into a locus of buffs!
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6 hours ago, Patriark said:
Hi! I’ve been toying with an idea ever since GH2018 came out with the costreduction for frostlords. I was hoping some of you more seasoned players could give me some feedback on it? Is it just plain stupid or could it work? Of course there are alot of lists/scenarios it will not work against, but maybe some that it will? Before I start buying stuff, I would greatly apreciate some insight.
Allegiance: Beastclaw Raiders
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (420)
- Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak
Frostlord on Stonehorn (420)
Frostlord on Stonehorn (420)
Frostlord on Stonehorn (420)
Icebrow Hunter (140)
- General
- Trait: Everwinter's Master
Battleline
2 x Frost Sabres (40)
2 x Frost Sabres (40)
2 x Frost Sabres (40)
2 x Frost Sabres (40)
Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 75
Well it would certainly be fun to try! As you surmise, it wouldn’t play the objective game well, and you are a bit vulnerable to hordes with multiple attacks, but then you are playing BCR in the first place!
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4 hours ago, Charleston said:
Hi guys,
yesterday I received the news that I can get the Gutbusters Army from WHFB of an friend of mine tommorow. It´s a little bit of an dream come true and I am actually already looking a bit into the rules for Gutbusters. I have a little question about the alligience for gutbusters. From what I see we can either play them as a GA:Destruction Army, with Artifacts and "Free Allies" (Yeah, Aleguzzer Gargants!) or as Gutbuster Alligience which grants us better Battlelines (Ironguts can be even more awesome this way :D). Did I got that part right? Or is a Mix possible?
Also, do you have any advice for the first games? As they most propably will be against Spell-Heavy Idoneth Deepkin and Nighthaunt I am a bit afraid of all that magic going on. Ogre-Stats look incredible offensively but can they handle all that magic well? Especially with thoose pesky Idoneth -1 to Hit Terrorwaves?
Yes, you got that right. Leadbelchers/Ironguts as battleline if you stick to guts. Note that you can still take allies though, you are just restricted to 20% of your total points and no more than one in every four units. So you can get Gargants in if you want them. Alternatively take from the Destruction a la carte. Either way, at the moment, you’re choosing from Destruction command traits and Destruction or Realm artefacts.
Idoneth and nighthaunt are both tough match ups for the Gutbusters, because, on the one hand we don’t like -to hit, and on the other we rely on rend. Don’t forget your efficient blobs of 12 ogors, take butchers, and counter-charge threats with tooled-up tyrants. Some Grot screens might help too, especially against fast charging units.
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11 minutes ago, basement dweller said:
What are the thoughts on a verminlorfd warpseer for moulder? Could use him instead of a bell for a little more punch and somd magic....
Warpgale is a nice spell, and the extra command points can come in handy (so you always have one or two in hand for unleash more-more beasts). However, you have to have him as your general, and personally I think Hordemaster is too good to pass up on a Moulder general. Unless you take fleshmeld menagerie, of course.
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3 hours ago, Nikobot said:
the giant rats are nothing but wounds now, id recommend some smaller units as speed humps/screen
I don’t entirely agree with this - giant rats are actually quite handy in large units. Because they’re skaventide units, they benefit from overwhelming mass (and strength in numbers). Meaning you have 40 models with a 3” range (better than clanrats) hitting on 3+ (2+ with a Master moulder nearby/in the middle) and wounding on 4+, for 200 points. (Average of 17 wounds before saves with a moulder, 13 without - and it’s not that hard to get them all in range to attack because of the extra reach). Bravery is 11 (14 with a moulder) reducing by 2 for every full 10 that are wiped out.
Moreover, with the right general or battalion, the whole unit can come back on a 4+ when destroyed!
2 units of that are certainly better than 3x20 clanrats just to fill your battleline, in an otherwise moulder list, and will contest objectives better than rat ogres. Smaller units of rats have their uses too, of course, but since bodies count for objectives, I wouldn’t leave moulder-nest-home without at least one large unit.
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6 hours ago, basement dweller said:
Any recommendations for a pure moulder list? Im thinking 2 masters, bell, 80 giant rats, 6 rat ogres, hell pit abomination, storm fiends ( for a little shooting), 6 rat swarms (cuz i want to), 3 packmasters and fleshmeld menagerie battalion.
Thats 1980. Any recommendations or must haves? I do like the endless spells so could make room. Theres no real scary heroes in this...and maybe another master would be safer if someone is hunting them....
Want to get some advice before i start painting it all....
Stormfiends shooting without Skryre command/artifact is a bit lacklustre, so I’m not sure I would bother. If you want fiends in a moulder list, I’d take a more combat orientated Loadout, like shock+warpfire+grinder. 80 giant rats is good, I really like units of 40. Aboms are great, think you’d like another one instead of rat swarms, but your choice 😉
not sure I’d take a bell in a moulder list; I guess you want it for the battleshock immunity, so you’d be surrounding it with giant rats ... the rest doesn’t really need it, even rat ogres when accompanied by a Master moulder. Rat ogres are surprisingly good, especially when accompanied.
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4 hours ago, Mikeymajq said:
I think you may be overthinking it. Or wishing really hard it was 1 in every 5 models? The rule is pretty clear.
Maybe. Not wishing though; it just came up in another topic with a different unit, that’s all. And one in every 5 would be different, of course, that would allow 2 in 10, etc. I still think that if I said, for example, 1 adult for every 10 kids, it wouldn’t be intuitive to think 16 kids required only 1 adult, or that 5 required none.
It also seems strange to me that a unit of 5 can’t take an icon at all, if that’s what the rule intends. It’s still a unit, why wouldn’t it be allowed? I won’t gripe either way, to be honest, just trying to help clarify.
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6 minutes ago, AresX8 said:
New warscroll clears it up: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/AoS_Blood_Warriors_EN.pdf
A unit of 5 cannot take an icon.It doesn’t clear it up, it says “1 in every 10 can take a glaive” (same for icon). That is not the same as saying only the tenth (and 20th, etc.) model can be a glaive. In units which come in multiples of 10 only, then it’s clear - but blood warriors can be taken in multiples of 5. So my understanding of 1 in every 10 means no more than one in every 10, I.e. you can’t take 2 in 10, or 3 in 20. In effect, taking 1 in 5, or 2 in 15, does not violate the rule of 1 in every 10, at least not unless there is a ruling which spells that out.
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2 hours ago, Kazimer said:
5 can get an icon, its 10 for a glaive. And note they changed it so the leader cant take the glaive.
Is this based on a previous ruling? I wouldn’t assume that 1 in 10 precludes a unit of 5 taking one. It just means a unit of 10 can’t take more than one.
I think you can take one leader, one glaive, and one banner in a unit of 5. You could take them in a(n understrength) unit of 3 if you wanted to.
Unless I’ve missed something; more than happy to be corrected if there’s a precedent in faq somewhere?
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16 minutes ago, Nick907 said:
I'd rather not have a standard 'wizard' either, but a 'rocket bombardment' type endless spell could be fun.
That’s a great idea. Call in an air strike 😊 There is now a precedent for non-magic endless ‘spells’ with the khorne release.
Presumably terrain pieces and endless spells for existing armies sell well, or they wouldn’t keep doing it. Personally, I will usually buy the terrain pieces for my armies, even if I’m not bothered about the bonus. And usually it’s a nice freebie in game.
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1 hour ago, Nicorko said:
Hello good afternoon, first I want to thank the help and ask for my apology if my English is not very good but apparently they managed to understand me hahahaha being as you say I do not see much use to that training to be worth 180 pts for that I prefer the one I can move and charge the same shift and the hunter and tigers to ambush and take me sts, the following week I have a 1k pts rookie tournament and I wanted to take a huskard in SH a unit of 4 MFP and a Th beastrider to support with deadly from behind while the other 2 charge and stick together that opinana? Any suggestions?De nada. 1k list sounds fine to me, but you might find it hard to cover objectives (but then that’s BCR in general). Will have to table your opponent quickly!
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12 hours ago, Nicorko said:
good afternoon I am Nicorko from Chile, I just started playing with BCR and I have not played before AOS or Fantasy, I chose them because I love the theme of giants beasts and elite armies and I think this is my army, I told them that I played a couple of games and I have a couple of doubts, in the formation Eurlbad all gain +1 damage? up to the mounts? Does someone use mournfang pack? any recommendation or combination of items or command features?It is only the Huskard on Stonehorn that gets +1 damage, but yes, his mount’s attacks get it as well. I use mournfang packs, and prefer them in units of 4; the hackers are generally better, but the fists are ok, and are likely to be useful again soon I think. I think Everwinter’s Master is the best all round trait, beast-eater can be good if you know you’re facing a lot of monsters. If you’re only using BCR artefacts, I still like the pelt, but blade of all-frost can combine with eurlbad bonuses for punches and kicks, and the tokens can also make a crucial turn go well. Bleeding skull looks ok to help with lack of casters, but in reality it will only help you against light magic lists, in which case you probably don’t need it anyway. If you are playing realm artefacts, there’s several great choices that you would probably take over any of the BCR ones.
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10 hours ago, DavionStar said:
Finally got my Riggers all painted! It took a while because I kept having issues to decide what to color what.
Congrats. That’s a nice colourscheme, like the purple, and you have a good balance of colours.. I would think about giving them a thin wash in something like sepia, all over, then picking out highlights. Wouldn’t need much, you’ve done a very neat job, but would help you get more definition on the details.
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1 hour ago, Inquisitorsz said:
I've heard people also take him with the Ethereal Amulet.
Now you've got a 4+ save, 12 wound monster who is immune to rend and can reroll that 4+.
Throw in Protection of the Horned Rat (5+ ward save) and now he needs to suffer 144 wounds to die (on average).Think you’ve unintentionally halved the odds again. I make it 72 wounds on average. 4+ rerollable means one in every 4 goes through, so 12 damage needs 48 (on average). Ward of 5+ means 2 in 3 go through, so 48 becomes 72 needed on average. Still a tough cookie though 😊
Gorgers ... are still models that don’t fit with the range. Some things don’t change.
Someone made a fire breathing ogre model, and they came up with hokey fluff about eating volcanos. So wouldn’t be hard to do it again 
AoS 2 - Gutbusters Discussion
in Destruction
Posted
It used to be 6 ogors, 4 ironguts, 4 leadbelchers. But by modern standards of start collecting boxes, that’s too much, especially if you add in a character. I think an equivalent to other start collecting armies out there would be: 6 ogors, a butcher, and then either an ironblaster or 3 leadbelchers.