Hollow
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Posts posted by Hollow
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Yeah, looks to me that people are just willfully not listening to or accepting information that has been clear as day to anybody paying attention for several years now. They announced the factions that were going to be supported. They stated clearly that there will be PDFs to get people by if they want to use older collections, but they are not part of what they are planning with ToW. Yet people are still sitting with their fingers in their ears "but they will get to them eventually, right? Right?" No. Wrong.
ToW and AoS are two different systems, from two different studios, with two different sets of factions and different models.
Vampire Counts are not in ToW because they step directly on the feet of the AoS Death factions.
Lizardmen are not in ToW because they step directly on the feet of the AoS Seraphon faction.
Skaven are not in ToW because it is clear that Skaven are about to get a huge AoS faction overhaul and they don't want ToW Skaven to step directly on the feet of the AoS Skaven faction.
Dark Elves are not in ToW as it seems like they would directly step on the feet of a planned AoS faction incorporating the DE aesthetic and thematics (Shadow Elves)
Ogre Kingdoms are not in ToW because again, they would step directly on the feet of a planned OK range refresh of AoS.
Chaos Dwarfs are not in ToW because it is likey they are going to show up in AoS and them to step on the toes of that planned faction.
Daemons are not in ToW because they would step on the toes of the demonic AoS factions.
Beastmen are in ToW because it is clear (at least it is to me) that the Beast range as is will not stand on the feet of what is planned for Beasts in AoS (With either removal of the faction as is or a complete aesthetic and thematic overhaul)
It's that simple. The 9 core announced factions for ToW are there because they don't step on AoS faction feet. The Legacy factions are there because they do. You might not agree with it, you might not like it, but that is the reality and what is going to be the case for at least several more years to come.
So what does that mean for players of the game.... erm... literally nothing. If you want to have a Vampire Counts army, you can buy AoS models and build yourself a Vampire Count army. Same with lizardmen, or Ogres. They just won't supported via Arcane Journals or at Official Warhammer tournaments. That's it.
What I find more exciting about this approach, is that if ToW is successful through the launch of it's 9 core factions, it has tonnes of design space to explore factions that do not step on the toes of AoS factions. Kislev, Grand Cathy, Nippon, Araby, Moot, etc...
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7 minutes ago, michu said:
It's not like they can't change this in the far future
lol.
I think it is pretty clear that they want AoS and ToW to be seperate things. With the 9 core factions they have outlined there is plenty to work with and I would bet that if there is to be expansions into other factions that is when we could see Kislev, Cathay, Moot, Araby etc.... (Which I would much prefer personally)
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4 minutes ago, Garrac said:
darl elves/chorfs/skavens
They will either be in the PDF or not at all. These factions will not be getting Arcane Journals.
Rob: A few of the factions from the previous Warhammer Fantasy Battle game will not feature in Warhammer: The Old World – this is in terms of game rules, model ranges, and the ongoing background narrative. These ‘Legacy’ factions will however get free, downloadable army lists so people can try out the new system using their older model collections. More about this in the coming weeks, though please note that they won’t be considered legal for tournaments, and won’t receive ongoing support.
If you want to come on this long-term journey with us, the factions in the Forces of Fantasy and Ravening Hordes books are the ones to collect and play – and we want to be pretty clear about that
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4 hours ago, madmac said:
I'm getting increasingly tired explaining the entire history of the BoC range to someone who only just glanced at it for the first time today. About half the OG BoC range is resin. Out of the handful of plastic kits they have the SC or Vanguard box covers most of what you need. In recent years they've had maybe 2-3 kits go to online only which is completely in line with many other armies, LRL for example had half their range switch to online only in 3E and those are far more recent kits than BoC.
I have been collecting Beastmen for a quarter of a century. Most of the current range available for Beasts of Chaos in AoS I have on square bases from before The End Times. So you can hop back in your little box.
Whilst many models have been moved to Online Only, The fact that the entire range is online only AND out of stock is not "in line with many other armies".
Online Only means that they are not available in GW retail stores, but can be stocked by FLGS and Online retailers. Take a look around a dozen or so major Online retailers and compare the offerings to updated AoS factions (Like LRL) and BoC, it's laughable, most have nothing apart from a smattering of kits that have just not sold or the aforementioned Beastlord and Vanguard kit.
I don't even know what you are arguing about. What are you saying? That the Current BoC model line will stay in AoS untouched and unchanged for many more years to come? You do not want new miniatures for Beasts *whether that is in a reimagined Beasts faction for AoS or as mono-god units for existing Chaos factions?
We already know for a fact the Shaggoth is in ToW. Do you think it will stay available in AoS? I do not. As I have mentioned before, I think with AoS 4 reboot there will be Index rules available for the existing range for use in AoS at launch and the range will be moved over to ToW and if/when Beasts are redone in AoS it will be all new models (along with the Tzaangors and perhaps the spawn kits) You think what? When Beasts are released for the Old World they will use other models than the current BoC line? They will be dual use (which is something GW are not planning on doing with AoS/ToW) What are you arguing about? What is the point you are trying to make? What position are you advocating for? I don't think you even know.
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5 minutes ago, madmac said:
Beasts of Chaos have always been mostly online only outside the Start Collecting and Vanguard boxes. Gors, Bullgors, and chaos hounds were reboxed for retail as I recall. Most of their models never were, and obviously the finecast models are right out.
I suppose that means nothing then... 🙄
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8 minutes ago, madmac said:
Bro, everything has been constantly out of stock for every army for the last couple of years.
This just isn't true though. Most of the AoS ranges have a handful of out of stock items. Just clicking through the different factions you can see this.
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Just now, madmac said:
Bro, everything has been constantly out of stock for every army for the last couple of years. The average time lag between me deciding I want to buy a model that wasn't just released and me actually being to buy it because it's finally back in stock is 3-6 months if I'm lucky and I'm not talking about Beastmen. There are several models for popular factions that haven't been in stock since they got their last battletome.
Dude... it's the entire range! Seems clear as day to me what is happening.
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It feels like many on this thread are not familiar with the BoC miniature range.... at all. Take a moment and go to the AoS BoC section of Warhammer.com
Beastlord (With Ripper Axes) - Out Of Stock
Shaggoth - Out Of Stock
Dragon Ogres - Out Of Stock
Gors - Out Of Stock
Doombull, Cockatrice, Centigors, Tuskgor Chariot, Jabberslythe, Ghorgon, Bullgors, Warhounds, Bestigors, Ungors, Gargant - All ONLINE ONLY.
(Also all those aformentioned models are from Fantasy btw)
The only properly stocked items are the Vanguard box, New Beastlord, Spawn and the Tzaangor range. That's it. Everything else has been left to run dry. My bet is an AoS 4 "Index" of existing units to be replaced by either a completely new AoS Beasts faction compremised of God-Specific beasts (Like the Tzaangors) and for the existing range of old models to reappear in an ToW BoC Faction box. Simples.
In the same way as the High Elf and Empire kits are.
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How are you not "being allowed" to play a game they are providing rules for day one of the ToW and are currently supported in AoS? Are you no longer "Allowed" to use an Iphone 10 because Apple release a new Iphone?
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7 minutes ago, Luperci said:
Even if people do think that(I do not) it is arguably only that way due to lack of support from GW. I don't think GW will immediately squat all old whfb miniatures from AoS, one of their flagship systems, to prop up sales for a specialist games/FW game system
People are reading what I said (and what I'm advocating for) completely backwards. BoC fit ToW, it keeps the current models around and allows for NEW Beast type models to be released in the AoS setting (Either as a new AoSfied faction or apart of other Chaos factions) "Squatting" is completely the wrong term. They are being made avalible for ToW (which is where the came from in the first place for goodness sake) opening up logistical space in AoS for NEW SCULPTS and ideas.
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1 minute ago, Snarff said:
There's a huge difference between removing a few old kits in an update/refresh and removing an entire army
People acting like BoC are some huge integral part of the AoS product line. They clearly are not.
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24 minutes ago, Grunbag said:
It means actually the current cross models will have a box for TOW and a box for AoS ?
No. It will mean that models that are going to be in ToW will be removed from AoS and be marketed as ToW models. Some will be removed entirely or new AoS reimaginings will replace them within the AoS line. Different kits, different systems.
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I can see AoS 4 being a complete reset with all models earmarked for ToW (BoC, Dwarfs, WoC, Woodies) being last chance to buy until they return. (Just like what has happened with Empire models)
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14 minutes ago, Grunbag said:
I can’t see how . So many old models left in AoS yet
There really isn't.
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Some people really don't seem to grasp the fact that ToW /AoS are NOT going to have official cross over models. They will have completely different factions with completely different model lines. Older models currently in AoS will be dumped from that system and picked up by ToW.
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9 minutes ago, madmac said:
STD are also a core faction in TOW and they're not going anywhere in AoS. TOW is a specialist game that cobbled enough of a budget to put up three cheaply made plastic models for it's big game debut after five years of development. The idea that TOW is this huge mover and shaker in GW land that is actively driving massive development decisions for AoS, the much bigger and more established game, is, frankly, bananas.
No. Warrior Of Chaos are a core faction in ToW. STD is AoS. They are different and you will likely see just how more different they become. ToW is a specialist game that has received more investment and resources than any other specialist game (Outside of LOTR) in GW's history. It's "Game Debut" is over 20 products with nearly 100+ products ear-marked for release over 9 different factions.
I am NOT saying that ToW is driving AoS development. It's literally the other way round. AoS development is driving ToW's.
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This is just a personal view, but I think with AoS 4 fast approaching and with the launch of The Old World, 2024 is the time for some lingering band aids to be ripped off and for AoS to be finally freed up from previous fantasy lines.
Grand Alliance Chaos - Blades Of Khorne, Disciples of Tzeentch, Hedonites of Slannesh, Maggotkin of Nurgle, Slaves to Darkness and Skaven are 6 clearly definied, setting specific factions that allow for ample creative freedom. With Skaven all but assured to be getting a full faction overhaul with the Launch of 4th, Beasts are the only real hangover from Fantasy.
GW have been very clear that ToW isn't a setting rife with demonic armies. Skaven are also not a significant force, but Beasts are listed as one of the main core factions. It's almost been completely spelled out by GW that this is what is going to happen. The only real question is how Beasts as a "faction" will be approached in AoS, will they be completely reminaged (With a new AoS name and minis or "rolled into" the exisiting Chaos factions with God specific units)
Grand Alliance Death - Flesh Eater Courts, Nighthaunt, Ossiarch Bonereapers, Soulblight Gravelords are once again, clearly defined setting specific factions, with it being spellied out, once again, that Vampire counts are NOT apart of ToW setting. Tomb Kings are the Undead faction of the Old World. No cross over...
Grand Alliance Order - This grand alliance is almost 90% "AoSified" with only Cities of Sigmar holding onto a handful of Dwarf units that are confirmed to be in ToW (My bet is they will not be in CoS 4 Battletome). It has been stated clearly that Dark Elves WILL NOT be apart of ToW and I think it is pretty clear that we will be seeing Malekith and his accompanying emo-elves appear in AoS, retiring or picking up some of the old Dark Elf units (My bet is these will also NOT be apart of CoS 4). Seraphon are an AoS faction now, 100%. Lizardmen have been stated to NOT be apart of ToW. Sylvaneth are already pretty far away from Wood Elfs and with the potential up coming Kurnothi it will further drive that distinction between them (Woodies have plenty of existing kits to draw from for ToW)
Grand Alliance Destruction - I think Ogors are on the AoS "refresh block" (and once again it has been made clear they are not apart of ToW) and I think we might see new AoS Goblins and the removal of Savage Orukks from AoS (to both be ported over to the Old World)
So this is how I see it. Lizardmen, Ogors, Dark Elves, Vampire Counts, Skaven are not coming to the Old World. The PDF's are throwing the mouthy minority a bone. Dark Elfs, Dwarfs, Goblins and Savage Orks are going the way of the dodo. Beasts of Chaos are getting moved to AoS and there will be a plenty of kits that will be removed entirely and sent to the GW vaults.
A final point, I think doing this (and perhaps even more) would be a VERY GOOD thing. I would love to see some genuinely NEW factions and ideas in AoS. I'm not a fan of everything having to stay around for ever and people screaming bloody murder because a model isn't being supported 20+ years after it was first released. I have said it before, but I would advocate a continual culling of the bottom 10% of AoS on a YEARLY basis. Keeping the game, models and factions fresh. Like pruning a tree.
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I can 100% see the current BoC line-up being moved over to ToW (Considering almost the entire line is from Fantasy anways) and for Beasts to get an AoS "reimagining" (Or reforging if you will) God specific beast units could also be added to the mono-god factions and for the faction to be removed as it's own thing.
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TOW - Bretonnia + Beasts of Chaos
AOS - Seraphon + Cities + (4th Edition hype!)
40k - T'au + Aeldari
Also plan on finally making a proper gaming table and getting into some 3D printing.
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The problem I have with the endless spells is that they are very hit and miss in terms of miniatures. Some of them look great, whilst others look pretty poor. At the end of the day GW only has the logistical capacity for a certian number of kits. If endless spells were to be ended (har har) for AoS 4.0 to make way for new stuff, I'd be ok with that.
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As for the Dwarf Dice. I could see them getting through all 9 factions in 2024. I could see Dwarfs coming with O+G in Spring, HE and Chaos in Summer, Beasts and Woodies in Autumn and Empire for Christmas.
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28 minutes ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:
Facts which do little to alleviate the kicked-in-the-balls sensation.
People pay a premium for that sensation yah know! 😅
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Aussie prices are expensive... It's almost like they are on the other side of the world with a higher per capita GDP than the UK.
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I have said it before, but I really liked the concept of The End Times. Makes perfect sense to me that the world would eventually end (just as ours will) and people/factions actually died (just as we all will) As a fan of fantasy like Game Of Thrones, I have no problem with death, it's a fundamental part of life and stories without it lack something IMO. I also think it's peak grimdark-Warhammer for the world to be consumed by Chaos. The following evolution into the Mortal Realms over aeons, (with some familiar souls and concepts) has worked well, I just wish we would see as much detail and TLC given to the realms as a setting as ToW has received.
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Warhammer - The Old World
in Warhammer: The Old World
Posted
You aren't taking in the information being presented to you. ToW is not out yet. This will not happen in 1 day, but I bet you by the end of the year and with the launch of AoS 4 that the distinction will be very clear.