Silchas_Ruin
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Posts posted by Silchas_Ruin
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I enjoy a lot of the newer BL AoS books. But I think they need to do more to ground small area's of the world. Take the most important cities or places and give us more information. Maps of the areas around these places and give us some idea of how these places relate or not.
If you had a map with Hammerhall in the center it would be nice to know stuff like where is Odessa? A army calling themself Lions of Odessa are mentioned in the first Gotrek audioplay sending troops to Hammerhall. Does the Hammerhall have buffer kingdoms all around it and then maybe wild lands held by Greenskins or still under control of Chaos outside that? There are several major cities in the Realm of Life, are they so far apart they are just kinda aware of each other or are there better relationships between some of them. What kind of leadership is there? In several books there has been hints at problems between the "leadership" of all the people coming out of Azyr and the poor people who managed to survive the age of chaos. There has been time jumps, has that kind of stuff turned into permanent upper and lower classes?
Pick some area's, give them maps and ground them to make us care more. Can still leave 99% of the Realms wild and let the authors play there and explore most of the time. But pick some some places to make us care about, I'm sure some authors could do great work with that. Most books would still explore the wild places of the Mortal Realms, but if 100% of the books are exploring new fantastic places its not the best way to make us care. There are no stakes to a place being overrun by Death or Destruction if its the first time we hear about that place. Take a example like Odessa I mentioned before. If they had bit parts in a couple of books that happen around Hammerhall and then where run over if you make a major story about a Waaargh attacking Hammerhal, people might care. But there is not much impacts if you never heard of them before.
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2 hours ago, Enoby said:
Personally, I really did try to get into AoS Black Library books, but as others have said they come across as very pulpy. I would find myself sighing when a fight scene came up - it always felt the authors were struggling to put something interesting in and so just had some fighting in there. The Realmgate wars were, on the whole, very unenjoyable for me - too many Stormcast making mince meat of Khorne over and over again, with very little depth.
That said, maybe that's what people want out of BL? I don't think anyone buys a Warhammer book expecting anything revolutionary - I think a lot of people just want to see their guys do something.
I think most people agree the Realmgate Wars is a really bad place to start reading AoS. Personaly I gave up on them after a couple of books. After a break people startet talking about books they liked, like Nagash the Undying king or Spear of Shadows. Its still BL and its to a degree personal taste which authors you like, but much better than Realmgate Wars.
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I played a game of 40k last week that was pretty even and changed who had the lead in point last turn, it was great. But I also don't remember how long since last time I had a game like that. In AoS I have them all the time. Thats what I feel the double turn does for me, makes me want to play more AoS than 40k.
To many 40k game you come to the table, see each others list, setup and decide who goes first .... and at that point you might as well shake on it and go have a beer. You know who is going to win. Its not always and you can get insanely lucky on dice, but really, you know who is going to win...
Not that you can't have that situation in AoS, but way less so. There is always the the chance that if you do everything right AND get to decide the turn order at the right time you can make it.
I look at the double turn as random ****** happens in a battle. Planning everything thats going to happen in a game before it starts just seems stupid to me.
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I feel like Stormcast need a new book, without a new chamber. I don't want to see point drops to make them better, all the old stuff new need new warscrolls,
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12 hours ago, Overread said:
Out of interest how many people let their opponent have two turns when the rolls allow for it and when playing a competitive game. Ergo when you are playing to win the game rather than any other social elements, do you allow your opponents to take a doubleturn and if so is it ever at any other time than the first turn when they might already have burned one whole turn being quite ineffective (ergo just moving into position).
Because we tend to always talk in terms of either neutral situations (it allows an underdog to win in a theoretical game we aren't involved with) or we talk about how we prepare for our opponent taking a doubleturn. The subtle message there being that we would not "give" them a doubleturn; since if the player has the initiative roll then its their choice (a known element) and all the preparations appear designed to be as if the opponent chooses to take a double.
I will give my opponent a double turn at times. Far from as offen as I take the turn myself, but if my opponent is not in a great position to take advantage of the double turn I will do it. If I can survive the double turn I know it will not happen next turn, instead it could be my turn.
A example could be if my opponent missed charges or or only killed my first rank his turn. I offen do layers, Bloodreavers in front of Bloodwarriors in front of Skullreapers. If my opponent can only hit Bloodreavers, sure give him the turn. If they are already dead or someone can double pile in, it might be worth it to lose both Bloodreavers and Bloodwarriors to get it over with, even more so as Bloodwarriors can give mortals back on 6 save and can fight if they die. In a situation like this they are also likely to have been the units I buff. This is a maybe, depending on how the rest of the table looks, but if a double turn only takes out my less important units I could be in a really good position in my turn with a possible double my way. If my opponent is likely to get into my good stuff, which depends a lot on what army you are up against and how much you can screen, no chance of giving away the turn.
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1 thing I would like to see is more interactions between battleplans and double turn. They tried with Relocation Orb, and while not my favorite battleplan I like that they tried. I have lost that due to taking the double turn to kill my opponent, it got me ahead on kill points, but ended up losing with 1 point. I would love to see more battleplans trying to make players pick between killing and victory points.
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The best thing about the double turn is that you don't know how the game will go.. Its 1 of the main reasons I play more AoS than 40k. In 40k you (almost) always know basicly how the game will go sometime before the end of turn 1. Can happen that you get it wrong, but mostly thing will go as predicted unless the dice don't roll average at all.
I been playing a ton of games with 15+ drops so opponent can give me turn 1 and try for double turn. Was fun and that double turn they get at some point rarely decided games. But then I play Khorne, so I can both have several screen units and hard hitting counters. Depending on what army you play it might not have the tools. And a couple of the top armies hit so hard you need luck with your good planning to survive a double turn.
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9'th Age tournaments are bigger than AoS here, there are also people playing oldhammer. If someone asks on FB or a forum about starting Warhammer all 3 groups try to recruit. I was pretty sure AoS would slowly win out, with active support and stuff its easier to get the new people. And I guess I still think we will be ok, but this is making me worried.
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Its great that so many people here have a gaming community so big they are not worried about it splitting at all. But for the rest of us, this is actually a problem. If my local play group loses 1/3 of the players, it will be harder to actually get a game and if you start having trouble getting a game more will stop.
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I want to set up a Warcry campaign. It will be people who have shown interest in the game, but not people who have played a lot.
The campaigns in the book seem fun, but pretty basic, you can pretty much play it on your own as long you have a opponent who is willing, which is great. But if you have a group doing campaign together is.... Do people just stick to people running their campaigns from the books or build on some home rules?
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15 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:
30k didn't split the 40k community.
Chances are by the time this releases, the Cities of Sigmar forces will have evolved into their own AoS-only specific armies anyway.
Also, this will do more to heal the transition. Not to repeat myself, but I think we'll see a lot more WHFB players who were still burnt by AoS' existence considering giving it a try, knowing their old, favourite game is coming back in the future.
This is not the same as 30k and 40k. Fantasy vs AoS is already toxic starting out. Still lots of people complaining about ending Fantasy and talking about AoS being a mistake and a failure. Its been slowing down and now GW is keeping it going. STUPID.
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Blades of Khorne is great. Almost everything in the book can be made usefull and you give most people a good fight. Can at least compete with most top armies and playing against weaker armies they almost always still feel like they had a good game.
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I enjoy the turn roll. Sometimes it ****** you over and there is nothing you can do, but its a dice game, games can turn on other rolls. I use several screen units and I'm in my current games trying to play for giving away the turn early and coming back later. It can be hard agains high dmg lists.
The main reason I like the double turn is the feeling that the game can always turn. I had to many 40k games where a look at the army list and seeing who gets to go first can tell you most of the game, and if not from the start then after turn 1 you see where its going. The turn roll makes me feel like there is always the option of a comeback, unless you lost almost everything. Would much rather sit around watching my opponent play 2 turns in a row than play the second half of a game just deciding the size of a victory.
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Looks like the Firestorm expansion is the base for this, I like how they work so could be good and its a way to use a lot of the old small fractions. But if small human / aelves fractions don't get a place here I'm wondering if they are going away.
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57 minutes ago, Kaz said:
Between the Slaughterhost, think it this way. Do you want something more beneficial for the entire army as a whole, or something more beneficial for a your single heroes?
My problem with using a Skullgrinder AND an exalted Deathbringer then giving them damage artifacts is that they are squishy. Straight out. And while yes, they do a LOT, there’s still that chance to whiff. I really found myself preferring to rely on my non-hero stuff like warriors or reapers to deal damage, because they have a lot more force multiplying potential.
Another thing to note, is speed. A Bloodthirster is fine to focus on damage because he has the speed to go after the right target. But Skullgrinder and exalted DB are slow. I find them best used as countercharge units to either deter charges, or punish an over-aggressive enemy.
I understand Exalted DB is a must for Slaughterborn, though I’d personally trade the grinder for a stoker. Still up to you though, I can see the value of a grinder. I’d however focus on either artifacts that boost his durability, or a support artifact like Talisman.
You don’t really need the extra CP. it’s very nice, but Khorne isn’t very Command point hungry, unlike armies like Gloomspite. While armies like the Gitz do NOT want their boys running off the table, we don’t mind as much due to MSUs and Blood Tithe.
For Slaughterpriests, I do feel 3 is a little too many.
If you removed 1 CP, 1 Slaughterpriest, you get 160 points, and can get 1 Bloodsecrator who imo, would contribute quite a lot as a force multiplier. And if you do run Goretide, pick the Bloodsecrator as general and give him the torc. He’s quite durable, and the command trait is very nice on him.
Also, why Resanguination on a Priest? Your heroes are too squishy to survive, so the Heal might not make a difference. I’d recommend Blood sacrifice. The ability to, at the start of the battle round, instantly get Blood tithe is amazing. I seriously hope this doesn’t get FAQed (like the skull Cannon... .___.)
Just some advice from a fellow skull Collecting maniac! Don’t want you to suffer disappointments in your games.
I done good damage with Skullgrinder, but yes, I end up depeding on my opponent coming to fight. Never actually done 3 Slaughterpriest, normaly play 2 that do good work. But might be true that I don't get much extra out of the last one, opponent might just keep important stuff away from the Altar.
Already have Bloodsecrator and the extra CP is from battalion.
A real hammer instead of the Skullgrinder might be a good idea, Think I will drop a few things and go Insensate Rate or Skarbrand
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4 minutes ago, ChaosLord said:
Why doesn't anyone use Skarbrand?
Finished painting him a few weeks ago and played some games. With Bloodsecrator and giving him a Wrathmonger bodyguard the mortals wounds from Carnage is at least 24 turn 2. Which is great. but he is slow and dies as easy as other Bloodthirsters, so find him either doing great or nothing.
I been considering doing either Skarbrand or Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage as a hammer in the list I posted above instead of pure mortal.
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I'm building my second set of Skullreapers at the moment and been looking at the Slaughterborn Battalion. Reducing rend by 1 on Blood Warriors and Skullreapers sounds pretty nice.
This is the list I come up with so far. I'm mostly split on the Slaughterhost right now, maybe I should be going Goretide for better movement. But going +2 attacks on both Skullgrinder and Exalted Deathbringer will bring a surpricing amount of punch many might not see coming (7 x 3+, 2+ -1, 3 / 9 x 4+, 3+, -1, 2). While 3 Slaughterpriest will hopefully make a deathzone around the Skull Altar.
Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Skullfiend Tribe
Leaders
Skullgrinder (80)
- General
- Trait: Master Decapitator
- Artefact: Crowncleaver
Bloodsecrator (140)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Resanguination
Exalted Deathbringer (80)
- Ruinous Axe & Skullgouger
- Artefact: Mark of the Destroyer
Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
Units
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Wrathmongers (140)
5 x Wrathmongers (140)
Battalions
Slaughterborn (180)
Endless Spells
Hexgorger Skulls (40)
Wrath-Axe (60)
Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143 -
Visited my local GW today and saw several Looncurse boxes. Seems strange after all the talk about there not being enough. Wondering if its a outlier or if the number of Looncurse boxes not as low as it seemed at first.
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If its a list of units or small battalions that are mercenaries and can be hired I'm fine with it. If its more i start having issues. Greyfyrd Lodge so you can pick anything Fyreslayer would be a no. But if its 10 of a named unit with a attached hero, that I can work with and it would be easier to balance if needed.
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Q: Some abilities can be used when a model or unit has ‘fought for the first time’ to allow that unit to fight again. Does this only apply if the unit fought for the first time during the phase, or does it also apply if the unit fought for the first time at the start or end of the phase?
A: It always applies, even if the first time it fought was at the start or end of the phase. Note that if several abilities allow a unit to fight again after it has fought for the first time, each of those abilities must be carried out one after the other. This means that only the first of those abilities would qualify as happening after the unit has fought for the first time, because after the first of those abilities is used the unit will already have fought more than once. Therefore the remaining abilities could not be used.
So no Tyrants of Blood in Reapers of Vengeance? Can't both attack twice and with next Bloodthirster as I read it
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1 hour ago, ledha said:
i won't speak about the thirster because it's not my expertise
However, wrathmongers don't buff ennemy units anymore and buff khorne units much more easily. This alone is very cool. Sure, they won't make a big monster hit itself anymore, but each wrathmonger killed will create 1 MW in aoe, at least. This can do some VERY nasty damages, and make the units much easier to use and efficient against a bigger variety of units.
The skullreapers lost the two handed weapon, but gained one more attack (4 instead of 3) and hit on 3+ now. They lost the reroll wound after killing lot of ennemy models, but will reroll hits against pretty much anything. They are basically khorne blightking.
One 5-man unit with one bloodsecrator around will do 25 attacks 3+ (reroll all against 95% of the units of the game)/3+/-/1 and more than half a dozen mortal wound +2 attacks from the mutation. Add a bloodstocker (a frequent combo) and they reroll al wound rolls as well. And murderous to the last is slightly better than before.
Bloodletters are nerfed in their maximum output. However, it also mean they don't require heavy babysitting, and mortal wounds in addition of damages (and not instead of them) make them better than before in small number/unbuffed, and they don't really care of -1 to hit too.
Plus don't forget all your demons have locus of fury now.
Bloodstoker is nerfed in his demons interactions too, but reroll all wounds is incredible !
I been building Skarbrand to try playing Council of Blood and now I will probably play pure mortal, which is anoying. They don't suck, but around 300 points for 14 wounds with 4+ and not hitting that hard unless you use command ability and artifact on them, and now with WoKB command ability nerf they are also slower. They are just not worth their points unless there are some new rules we have not seen yet.
Wrathmongers warscroll don't really look bad, true. But they no longer do what most Khorne players used them for in the first place. They made people with good combat monsters be carefull, they where a major part of my plan to handle the new FEC monster lists. How they are a walking buff that can do some dmg.
Skullreapers are better for hordes and will probably see quite a bit of play.
Bloodletters are also better at hordes and worse at big stuff, which was what I used them for.
I'm sure I will figure out some new. Thinking about it now, the nerfs or changes might not make the units suck. But they no longer do what I put them in my army for in the first place. Which means my list will not work at all. So will have to come up with something different. I mostly play at a club where I will do with that, but I'm also just starting to go to tournaments and for that I'm worried.
Also, one of the things we had going for us as Khorne was good battalions, many seem to have been made a lot weaker.
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So my army
Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster, mostly used to command ability - nerf
Insensate Rage Thirster - nerf
Wrathmongeres - nerf
Skullreapers - hmmm, not sure yet
Bloodletters - yey, no nerf they did that with wrath and rapture already
Bloodstoker, mostly used on my deamons - nerf
really love this new book............
Also just for fun was currently kitbashing a skullcrusher to be my Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut - nerf, so much fun
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I been running a Gore Pilgrims, 30 Bloodletters and Wrath Bloodthirster and Bloodstoker to buff them. Changed the last points around a bit, couple of Khorgoraths, Skullreapers to get max out of Killing Frenzy if Bloodletters go down early.
I'm getting ready to go to my first turnament in the new year and Bloodletters can no longer do the job I build my list around. So trying to decide what to go for.
Lots of mentions of Council of Blood, I could do Wrath, Insensate Rage (with Ghyrstrike) and Skarbrand and Gore Pilgrims. 2 drops is nice, but not sure how you actually make it work against big units. Bloodthirster don't hit that hard and die easy.
I was wondering if this list could work:
Allegiance: Chaos
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Leaders
Wrath Of Khorne Bloodthirster (320)
- General
- Trait: Immense Power
- Artefact: Mark of the slayer
Daemon Prince of Khorne (160)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement
Bloodsecrator (140)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
Units
5 x Skullreapers (170)
- Daemonblades
5 x Wrathmongers (180)
Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (200)
Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 125
2x10 Blood Warrriors with Bronzed Flesh and backed up with Skullreapers and Wrathmongers against hordes.
2 big and fast monsters with artifacts for those battleplans.
Wrathmongers and Deamon Prince with Sword of Judgement against monster list.
3 Slaughterpriest with rerolls for mortal wounds or pulling of objectives.
Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster maybe with Doppelganger Cloak instead so I can trow it forward, most games only really get a use out of it a couple of times anyway, so not sure nerf makes me drop it.
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From new FAQ:
Q: Some old abilities refer to a roll of 6. What does this mean exactly? A: If an ability refers to a roll of 6 (rather than a roll of 6+ or a roll of 6 or more), it means a roll of 6 after rerolls but before any modifiers are applied.
I had some arguements over this since AoS1 where it counted as 6+. Does it make Crimson Crown useless or can still be worth it?
AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
OBR is hard. One of the few ways I won against them is with Skarbrand. He still has to survive catapults, but thats what bronzed flesh and luck is for. Building everything around doing as many mortal wounds as possible might work too, but normal melee units against OBR is like a 10 year old fighting a adult.