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Unter

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Posts posted by Unter

    AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

    in Order

    Posted

    11 hours ago, Akhelian-Snail said:

    Hey fellow Tadpole!

    As of right now I'm not too impressed with any of the Isharann heros. But the Soulrender is my favorite fighting wise because he seems the one that can actually swing a bit!

    Soulscryers are pivotal to how our lists work, you could make an argument that Tidecaster's table flip is equally central to many lists.

    • Like 1
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    AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

    in Chaos

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Hannibal said:

    I´d run 10 Plaguebearers, 10 Plagebeaers, 30 Plaguebearers, 30 Bestigors instead for exactly 2000 points.

    From his Twitter account it seems to be that he played against Nagash at least once...  (https://twitter.com/TerryPike84)

    Well, I think that´s a viable strategy too, though you can be easily locked down in your deployment zone by some alpha striking lists...

    As you can see on AoSshorts, Terry gained a total gaming score of 30, which is equal to 4 other players. He just has lowest tiebreaker which still brings him Top 7. Hihi, Top 7 with a Nurgle army...

     

     

    If you read my post properly, I mention that the the runner-up of the tournament had no games against Daughters, Stormcast or Nagash, I'm aware Terry played some tough lists.

    I think the point stands that if you finish 2nd without playing Sacrosanct/DoK/Nagash, that is a softer tournament.

    And yeah I think Terry finishing 3rd/7th on GameScore is awesome, power to him!

    AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

    in Chaos

    Posted

    I like it but I think you are losing some plaguebearer survivability with the small units. They are mainly tanky because of their -1 to hit, which you need 20 models for.

     

    How about this:

     

    Leaders
    Great Unclean One (340)
    - Plaue Flail & Massive Bilesword
    Great Unclean One (340)
    - Plaue Flail & Massive Bilesword
    Rotigus (340)

    Battleline
    30 x Plaguebearers (320)
    20 x Plaguebearers (240)

    Units
    30 x Bestigors (300)

    Battalions
    Thricefold Befoulment (120)

    Total: 2000 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 1
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 128

    AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

    in Chaos

    Posted · Edited by Unter

    I actually think Terry's thricefold list was about as competitive as thricefold can be. I don't know who he played, but bear in mind that the runner-up of the tournament had no games against Daughters, Stormcast or Death/Nagash.

    He played a vanilla Nighthaunt list and beat 5 variations of chaos. Not taking too much away from the winner, who of course played DoK, but it shows its a relatively soft tournament where you can place second without facing any of the 3 hardest lists in the game (Nagash, DoK, Sacrosanct).

    Thricefold is gonna be low on bodies and damage output, given how much has to be invested in the 3 big lads. I think Terry probably made the right decision by focusing on board coverage so he wouldn't autolose some of the most common Battleplans, big kudos

    Furthermore, as AoShorts mentiones,

    Based on gaming score alone, the top 5 would have been:

    1. Ben Savva – Daughters of Khaine
    2. Robert Sedgeman – Death
    3. Gary Percival – Sacrosanct Chamber
    4. Nick Thompson – Order
    5. Chris Myhill – Order

      But by all accounts Terry's Thricefold was incredibly painted 

    AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

    in Order

    Posted

    18 hours ago, newsun said:

    Sisters to make storm rerollable 3+ no rend. I'm still play testing, but it's good combo

    It's just way too many points. You will fail the spell about 1/4 of the time, which is actually quite a lot, without even factoring in dispel, which you can't reliably hide from late game.

    It is a cool combo, just think that 220 could go elsewhere.

    AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

    in Order

    Posted · Edited by Unter

    6 hours ago, newsun said:

    Sisters + storm + ethereal.

    Spicy, but that's a hell of a lot of points.
     

    7 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

    I haven't seen this discussed since the old Idoneth thread, so I'd like to drop some thoughts on allies in an at least competitive-ish Idoneth force. This thinking was at least partly prompted by @Unter's post above with the Witch Aelves and Hag Queen package as allies. 

    As a DoK player, I well know how nasty Witch Aelves are. That said, I wonder a bit about using them as a source of bodies. Their offense is great, but their defensive efficiency drops off quite a bit without the DoK allegiance package and temple abilities. When compared with 30 Namarti Thralls you are getting roughly equivalent offense at baseline (WA are better against some targets while NT are better against others), but I'd probably give a slight edge to WA there. You also get slightly better mobility, but you lose out on any kinds of deepkin synergies.  In terms of defensive efficiency it's a bit of a wash.

    All that being said, it seems to me that deepkin are pretty rich with sources of rendy damage, so high efficiency no rend damage does fill a bit of a gap in the roster. I can see taking the Witch Aelves + Hag Queen package and could honestly see a case for bringing a second Hag Queen along for the ride just to make sure you don't lose Witchbrew.

    I took a peek at the deepkin allies list while pondering this further, and I noticed another possible candidate: Eternal Guard. Don't get me wrong -- EG aren't even close to being in the same league on offense, but if you are looking for bodies they are defensively very efficient. The Witch Aelf package is costing you about 7.59/9.17/9.42/9.42 points per effective wound against rend 0/1/2/mortal damage. Eternal Guard have  a lot of variation in their effectiveness, but it's always better than this:

    Note: for the following numbers when I say "in cover" I am only factoring in the effect on the EG shields, NOT +1 save from cover

    Moving, no cover: 4.28/5.64/7/7

    Moving, cover: 3.89/5.48/7/7

    Not moving, no cover: 2.92/4.28/5.64/7

    Not moving, cover: 2.33/3.89/5.48/7

    Comparing with the Witch Aelves, Eternal Guard are just far more defensively efficient. If you want bodies that will hold the line, I'd consider some of these.

     

    That also got me thinking again about Sisters of the Thorn. They certainly combine well with Eternal Guard, but they really combine well with Ishalen Guard. I'm sure most of you know how easy getting a turn 1 charge is with eels, particularly if you boost the charge distance. Combine the +1 to save on the charge with the first turn guaranteed cover and the fact that units must fight if able, and a unit of eels charging on turn 1 are going to bounce horrific damage back. They will be sporting a 2+ unrendable, rerollable save that kicks back a mortal on 4+. Depending on your setup and the opponent, it's not entirely unrealistic to keep the Sisters of the Thorn outside of unbinding range and still reach your eels, who themselves are close enough for a first turn charge. After that, the Sisters are fast enough to keep up with the rest of your army and should still have some decent targets. 

    I could see 20 Eternal Guard (either 2x10 or 1x20) and 5 Sisters of the Thorn making a potent allies package.

    Interesting points in there. I think the reason I'd favour the Witch Aelves is not bodies necessarily in a defensive sense, but another scary block that has to be dealt with. I think its sometimes overestimated how much utility a purely defensive unit has, and I'm a big believer in units needing to carry ‘threat’ in AoS.  Nevertheless, compelling and I’ll give it some thought for sure.

    Agree also to your point about a lot of the Waelves scariness fading without 5+ rerollable save etc.

    Sisters I’ve looked at a few times but I’m put off by their points cost and the unreliability of their spell. You should get a 6 to cast their spell off, but you’ll fail about a quarter of them, even if you can keep them out of dispel. I think they'd be worth consideration at 180 points or so. Given that turns 1/2/3 are the ones that decide the game, it wouldn't be ridiculous for you to fail the cast on t1, then be within dispel range by 3. Maybe Ionrach could help here? Don't think the allegiance ability would help them though

    Besides, once your Ishlaen are in combat, they aren't getting another charge any time soon and their cover will dissapear on t2, also you don't get cover when you charge right? Leaving them on a 4+ rerollable, kicking wounds on a 6+. Not sure if this is "220pts good", compared to the output of Morsarr.

    Again, food for thought, but it's gonna feel hella bad to not get the cast off
     

    AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

    in Order

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Hankster said:

    That's fair. It is a lot of points to hold objectives or sit in combat. Maybe I need to focus even more on mobility if I'm going to have a Akhaleian focused army.

    I take it you guys think the aspect of the storm is a better use of 440pts than the leviadon? 

    I assume you are using the heartrenders to sit on objectives when you need to. 

    As the above poster said, with AoS2 you just need to capture an objective by tagging it, then you hold it even when you move off.

    I've spent very little time camping objectives unless I'm waiting for an opponent to deep strike and contest it. In that case I've used heartrenders, but thralls you can leave if you really need to. 

    Games tend to be decided by a few crucial combats, rather than disparate melees across the field, so if you've too many points tied down on far flung objectives unable to join the fight, you'll get outnumbered where the enemy concentrates their force better.

    The biggest single strength we have is we can get quickly to where we need to be, and bring big damage when we do.

    Leviadon I don't know. He's a lot of points for not very much, and we don't tend to play enough infantry to really get the most out of his cover. Remember, the Leviadon doesn't benefit from his own cover as he's a monster, so he isn't the tankiest thing ever.

    Aspect of the Storm in a bad list is worse than eels, but with adequate support I think he is decent.

    AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

    in Order

    Posted

    7 hours ago, Hankster said:

    So you use only Morsarr eels? You don't find the Ishlaens useful for holding objectives? Their ignore rend seems pretty awesome to me. 

    Have you tried a Laviadon? In my mind Ishleans supported by a Laviadon seems like it should be insanely tough. And the perfect anvil to hold up enemies on or sit on objectives. But maybe it would be too vulnerable to mortal wounds...

    But remember they are only sitting on a 4+ save, unless they charge. Like, sure they can tie stuff up, but you still need to kill your opponent, and they won't do it.

    As you say, mortal wounds will mess them up, but so will volume of attacks unless they get in cover.

    If you want to take the Leviadon  and a big group of Ishlaen you are then investing about c.700 points in an 'anvil' unit that will be a damp squib in combat.

    You have to play to Deepkin's strengths, which to my mind are force maximisation, enabled by our mobility. 

    We can bring all of our damage to bear practically wherever we want on the table, at a time of our choosing. Very few armies can do that, and I think if we spend our time compensating for what we aren't good at (long, grinding combats), we will dilute what we are good at - long range, reliable damage output.
     

    • Thanks 1

    AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

    in Order

    Posted

    On 9/13/2018 at 9:02 PM, Hankster said:

    Hey @Unter what sort of list do you run? I'm still building my army, and right now I'm focused on Akhelians. I'd be intersested to hear everyone's thoughts.

    Currently I have:

    Voltrunos / Akhelian king (not sure if I should build Voltrunos or the King - Thoughts?)

    Soulscryer 

    Tidecaster

    6 - Morrsarr 

    6 - Ishlaen

    2 - Allopexes

    I'm planning on adding more eels and either an Eidlon (probably storm) or a leviadon. 

    I plan to get an Akhelian focused army up and running as it's easier and the eels and sharks are cool models. Plus I like the idea of having a very fast army to grab objectives and get charges in. Down the line I may make a second Namarti focused army. 

    Would it make sense to get the Leviadon so I can take the Akhelian battalion? Does it really make that much of a difference to have a two drop army? I'm really tempted by the Eidlon since it looks so cool and the Leviadon seems a to have really high point cost in AoS2. 

    Any thoughts on if Voltrunos or the King is a better choice? The anti-magic shield sounds pretty cool, but I don't really like the eye patch. 

    Last question, any thoughts on fighting Beastclaw, other than stay away and focus on objectives? 

    Hey, I did pretty well (3 major wins, one minor loss, one major loss to the tournament winner) at a recent 40 player event with the following list:

    Akhelian King - Cloud of Midnight

    Tidecaster

    Scryer

     

    10 Thralls

    10 Thralls

    10 Thralls

    9 Morsarr

    9 Morsarr

    5 Khinerai Heartrenders

    5 Khinerai Heartrenders



    Very few armies can handle that many eels, who are after all reasonably tanky with 4 wounds each. I lost to Nurgle on killpoints for the minor defeat, and to a Tzangor spam to pretty decent opponents, but I took out Nighthaunt, Sylvaneth and Khorne in relatively straightforward games.

     

    Next tournament I'm looking to ally in some Witch Aelves to get more bodies on the board. Considering the following:

    Leaders
    Hag Queen (60)
    Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Storm (400) - Cloud/Ethereal Amulet
    Isharann Soulscryer (100)
    Isharann Tidecaster (100) - General

    Battleline
    30 x Witch Aelves (270)
    - Pairs of Sacrificial Knives
    10 x Namarti Thralls (140)
    10 x Namarti Thralls (140)
    10 x Namarti Thralls (140)

    Units
    6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (320)
    6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (320)

    Total: 1990 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 0
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 135

     

    I'd consider dropping to a single unit of 9 eels, or switching Eidolon for more eels/King. A cloud/ethereal character seems too powerful to drop

    AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

    in Order

    Posted

    On 9/9/2018 at 6:55 PM, DocKeule said:

    Hi everybody,

    I have been playing IDK now for a little while and with mixed results, I did OK in casual games but I played the first tournament yesterday and the results where kind of underwealming. The event had three different sized games so I tried three completely different lists, one pure infantery, one mixed and one pure cavelley.

    In my opinion the IDK are good on average but they lack some highlights and spectacular synergies that other factions have. And one of their biggest weaknesses are mortal wounds - both in output and protection against it. 

     

    This is what I have bought, built and painted so far:

     

    Akhelian King / Volturnos
    Eidalon of Mathlann
    Lotann Warden of the Soul Ledgers
    1 Tidecaster
    2 Soulrender
    2 Soulscryer


    30 Namarti Thralls
    20 Namarti Reavers 
    9 Akhelian Guard
    2 Akhelian Allopex
    1 Akhelian Leviadon
    2 Gloomtide Shipwrecks

     

    I would really like to not get too eel heavy. I know they are what most people seem to concentrate on but I don't enjoy that model that much (especially the building and painting) and I would like to variety on the table. Consensus seems to be that the Leviadon and the Eidalon are not really worth their points so I might take only one or none of them in competetive situations although they are the two most spectacular models.

    Hello! First things first, IDK are very strong, and while eels are mandatory if you want to be competitive, you don’t have to go mono-eel.

    The Leviadon and the Eidolon are both useful models, probably overcosted, but you can certainly incorporate them. The Allopexes also, to an extent.

    You’ve got some seriously poor units though, that are basically dead weight. Disclaimer: I feel your pain. Big fan of the Reavers and Lotann, sad that they are hot trash.

    The soulrenders only really get close to worthwhile regen with Morph’ann Enclave and the Batallion, and even then they are poor. Lotann (memes aside) is more or less unplayably bad, as are Reavers.

    If you want a cheap screen, ally in some Khinerai Heartrenders for 80 points per 5 models. These can deploy off the board and deep strike to take objectives or screen charges.

    Reavers will do 1-2 wounds at long range into a 4+ save, and have a good chance of doing 0 damage to anything higher.

    Thralls are excellent, but I’d advise splitting them into 3 units of 10. They are extremely squishy and only have 1” range. This means if you DO get them into combat, you aren’t getting full benefit. If you take any significant casualties furthermore, you are losing a fair chunk to battleshock. This is mitigated by multiple units that are also more tactically flexible.

    Way I see it, you can keep your Allopexes and Leviadon, even your Eidolon, but you can free up 580 points, over 25% of your army, by dropping the Reavers and Soulrenders. This saving would enable you to split your thralls into 3x10, and fit in 9 more eels.

    You could then end up with something like this:

    Leaders

    Akhelian King (240)

    Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Sea (440)

    Isharann Soulscryer (100)

    Isharann Tidecaster (100)

     

    Battleline

    10 x Namarti Thralls (140)

    10 x Namarti Thralls (140)

    10 x Namarti Thralls (140)

     

    Units

    9 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (480)

    1 x Akhelian Allopexes (140)

    5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)

     

    Total: 2000 / 2000

    Extra Command Points: 0

    Allies: 0 / 400

    Wounds: 108

    You probably have to make a choice between Eidolon and Leviadon in most games, otherwise you'll have close to 1k of your army tied up in two models.

    This list is probably too squishy for me, and if I was taking Eidolon I'd probably not take King or Allopex, and put the savings into more eels, but this is the skeleton of what a stronger list could look like with your models.

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

    in Sylvaneth

    Posted

    Hi folks, tempted by Sylvaneth at the moment but more by a shooting/magic heavy list. Is this viable at all these days? Seeing people lean more towards alpha strike dryad heavy armies.

    Also, what battalions do you guys get the most value from?

    Cheers!

    AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

    in Order

    Posted

    12 hours ago, LegioX217 said:

    Right now I'm planning out my 2k list as I build up my initial buy and finishing painting some units. I'm trying to include most models from the range, and I'm feeling like the Leviadon completes the feel and uniqueness of the army more than the Eidolon, and I was having trouble fitting both, so I got something like this.

    Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin (enclave tbd)

     

    LEADERS Vulturnos, High King of the Deep (280) - General

    Isharann Tidecaster (100) - Lore of the Deeps : Arcane Corrasion (artifact tbd)

    Isharann Soulscryer (100) (artifact tbd)

    UNITS

    1 x Akhelian Allopexes (140)

    3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (140)

    9 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (480)

    10 x Namarti Reavers (140)

    10 x Namarti Thralls (140)

    BEHEMOTHS

    Akhelian Leviadon (380)

    BATTALIONS

    Akhelian Corps (100)

    TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 110 LEADERS: 3/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 0/2 ALLIES: 0/400

    I get to include the awesome shark model with the excuse that its' for the battalion, and I get every model in the range besides the Eidolon, soulrender and Lotann, and I still have a punchy eel unit and a tanky one to screen/soak, with some bodies on the ground to claim objectives or blend some infantry. Magic is light but still there, and I even got to squeeze a soulscryer in for fun.

    Any suggestions or tweaks ? Only thing I could think of changing is switching the eel ratios, but its hard with the odd point values.

    Also which enclave should I run? I'm painting them as Ionrach but will use whatever. Dhom-hain for re-roll or maybe Nautilar ?

    Depends if you are thinking super competitive or friendly :D

    if competitive, drop the Reavers, Allopex and Akhelian Corps, bring more Morsarr.

    Fuethan and Dhomhain seem to be the best for most people, don't really see Nautilar working

    AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

    in Order

    Posted

    I think its a dangerous game staying off the board till turn 3, which is why I'm leaning towards Fuethan. By turn 3 you could be a very long way behind in objectives if you keep 1/3 of your army off the table.

    There's also the issue of screening.

    If a good player keeps his big hitters screened, or sacrifices just one of his big units - bearing in mind we have to come in on a clump on one board edge - we might find ourselves too far behind to come back. 

    Remember, 9 eels will kill most things anyway, especially with biovoltaic shock, do we really need to stack another 6 attacks on them? 

     

    AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

    in Order

    Posted

    Haha yeah, mine always die too :(

    Even a handful of them can cause some chaos though. 

    3 of mine did the last 4 wounds of a stardrake the other night, game winning play as it opened up a Morsarr charge onto an Evocator block. 

    It was a little lucky, but they still had a 40% chance of doing that damage, which isn't too unrealistic.

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

    in Order

    Posted

    20 minutes ago, Gildaheir said:

    Hey folks, I'm interested in Idoneth, but I'm a bit tentative. My chief opposition would be Tzeentch demons/tzaangors and Nighthaunts/Death. We don't play hyper-competitive lists by any means, but we also don't intentionally cripple ourselves. Does Idoneth match up well with those? I'm trying to figure out what I'd like to play in AoS, and I'm struggling. I heard some whisperings that Beastmen might be on the horizon and am debating holding off until I know for sure if they are/aren't coming down the pipeline.

    Some of my concern about Idoneth is I love the big models (Leviadon, Alloplexes, Aspects) and it sounds like they kinda stink? Also, do Idoneth play like Sylvaneth? That's who I had before, and I wound up hating their playstyle (mostly how damned slow they were and their relative weakness to ranged/mortal wounds). So, I'd like something that plays different.

    Allopexes are very poor, Leviadon is too, but I know some people disagree.

    The strongest list is eel spam, which is extremely fast, and we have virtually no ranged damage output, so I wouldn't really compare to sylvaneth.

    I'd say a 'balanced' Idoneth Army with all the fun stuff in is mid-lower tier, while an eel heavy army is just below top tier.

    You can deploy so much stuff off the board and don't have any restrictions on when you come down, unlike say, Stormcast.

    Magic is ok and alpha strike is one of the best in the game. Aspects are pointed about right, not too strong, not too weak. 

    AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

    in Order

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Kugane said:

    That sounds nice. Did you manage to see the games? I am curious how they managed to get them in range. From personal experience opponents tend to know they are super strong and shoot them down turn 1 XD

    I saw bits and pieces on stream.

    It really isn't about how you line up a thrall charge, or whatever, you just have the thralls, and if people are targetting them they aren't targetting your eels.

    Both lists I think played 15-18 Morsarr, to give you some context. 

    In that environment targetting the Thralls isn't a great idea.

    To clarify, I think any strategy depending on Thralls to win the game will NOT work. But as a filler unit, used to control the board and objectives, they pack a good punch.

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

    in Order

    Posted

    Hey Thralls are core to good lists.

    Both the high placing Deepkin lists at BoBo (big English tourney) on the weekend played with I think 30 thralls split across 3 units.

    They aren't superheroes, but they are very solid for what they do.

    For example, you'd expect 10 thralls to do 8 wounds to a high wound monster with a 3+ save, that's without any buffs. 

    They tear through multi-wound, high armour targets, which is a relatively rare commodity, and they are flexible enough to deal with hordes.

    You'd expect around 9 wounds against infantry with a 4+ save, for example.

    Crucially they also fight in both turns, remember you are still fighting with them after your opponent activates in his turn.

    Again, not saying they are perfect, but they are very solid battleline.

     

    • Like 2

    AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

    in Order

    Posted

    15 hours ago, Manxs said:

    Hey guys i just got some deepkin stuff and this a list i am thinking of running what do you think

    Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
    - Enclave: Mor'Phann
    Mortal Realm: Shyish

    Leaders
    Isharann Soulrender (100)
    - General
    - Trait: Born From Agony 
    - Artefact: Black Pearl 
    Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Sea (440)
    - Artefact: Arcane Pearl 
    - Lore of the Deeps: Arcane Corrasion
    Vulturnos, High King of the Deep (280)
    Isharann Tidecaster (100)
    - Lore of the Deeps: Protective Barrier (Nautilar Tidecasters)
    Isharann Soulscryer (100)

    Battleline
    20 x Namarti Reavers (280)
    20 x Namarti Thralls (280)
    20 x Namarti Thralls (280)

    Battalions
    Namarti Corps (100)

    Endless Spells
    Soulsnare Shackles (20)

    Total: 1980 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 1
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 95
     

    I'm not sure what is doing your damage here, your thralls I guess? But kill them and everything else has pretty low output. Also 95 wounds is very fragile!

    AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

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    Posted · Edited by Unter

    7 hours ago, Reuben Parker said:

    Oh yeah I was meaning I wouldn’t like playing it rather than it’s OP (although I do think it would be good). Even with things like new SC and nurgle being a bit crazy  having an entire fast flying army is a huge weapon. Especially as if you get to turn 3 with even a reasonable number of eels left it’s probably a win due to Volturnos multi pumping 3 units.

     

    Having proxied the big thrall ball style I do agree it’s fragile and actually frustratingly hard to make the healing work. Renders should be either both battkeshock phases or our hero phases. 

    Yea I really don't think it would work unless you absolutely played around it. Even then, it won't be competitive.

    Closest I could get to competitiveness for Morphann would be the following:

    Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
    - Enclave: Mor'Phann

    Leaders
    Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Sea (440)
    Isharann Soulrender (100)
    Isharann Soulrender (100)

    Battleline
    30 x Namarti Thralls (360)
    30 x Namarti Thralls (360)
    30 x Namarti Thralls (360)

    Units
    6 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (280)

    Total: 2000 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 0
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 136



    If you traded Sea for Storm you could switch the Ishlaen to Morsarr, but you might miss the bravery buff on the Thralls. 

    AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

    in Order

    Posted

    On 7/26/2018 at 11:36 PM, DantePQ said:

    Again

    1) Reavers are good, they're not broken but have uses, they are awesome at guarding objectives and doing a lot of little stuff

    2) Most armies have useless battalions - what you're proposing is just giving powerful effects to units that you want to include and it doesn't work that way. Daughters of Khaine have bad battalions as well, Nurgle doesn't have much, Death isn't using many as well. I love how battalions are constructed in recent Battletomes. 

    3) so what ? There are many units overpriced or underpriced in AoS. Sure Aspect of the Sea maybe is too expensive but on the other hand you got unit of 12 W, that's got bunch of attacks, flies 14'' and igonres rend for 140

    4) IDK are not shooting army 

    5) many other armies lack them as well (DoK?)and still you got access to generic CA and Akhelian King and Volturnos have amazing CAs. 

     

    Just to respond to this point on Reavers with a similar point I've made before to provide some game detail to the excellent spreadsheet that has also been linked:

    It's important to be realistic about the output of a single unit of Reavers. Over 9"  range you'd expect 1.5 wounds per turn if you are shooting into a 4+ save, and you have a very good chance of doing 0 damage to a 3+ save.

    Even at close range a full volley would only expect to do 3/4 wounds into a 4+ save, and 2 wounds into a 3+.

    Say if you took 3 units of Reavers, that would mean 420 points of your army shooting from distance into a 4+ save would do 3-4 wounds.

    If you are taking them as objective grabbers they are neither cheap nor survivable, with low saves and low bravery. And as the other poster mentioned, their already extremely low damage falls off swiftly as soon as they lose 1 or 2 models.

    If you are looking for cheap, flexible objective grabbers, ally in some Khinerai Heartrenders, who you can deploy off the board before deep striking them in.

    They also won't do much damage, but you can keep them to take objectives turn 3-4 when no other unit can cross the board to steal.

    The best use I've had out of my reavers (who I do think are super cool models!) has been to put them out front to get shot at instead of my thralls. Though that does beg the question as to whether it wouldn't be better to just take...another unit of thralls, then if any do somehow survive I'll have the consolation that they will still do decent damage.

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