Sedraxis
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Posts posted by Sedraxis
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On the matter of SCE vs OBR.
The main weakness of OBR lies in their low movement and model quantity. SCE has the ability to take control early through deploying all over the map. If you can force them to split up you can pick their units off one by one.
OBR also shares our weakness to mortal wounds, so if you can Gavriel bomb/charge them with Evocators you can take out key pieces like Arkhan or other heroes. Same for Longstrikes.
Another thing is the Crawler, it shuts down when enemies get within 3" because of its minimum range, devoting one or 2 cheap units to that might be worthwhile.
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Why wouldn't Foul Regenesis be part of the Lore of Nurgle? It's a Nurgle specific spell on the page covering the Lore of Nurgle.
I have never heard anyone doubt this before.
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24 minutes ago, SleeperAgent said:
I feel like Crawlers are gonna be the big thing until the FAQ drops. Maximum damage output is higher, has easier hit rolls, and the range. Just dump your shieldwalls on objectives and force opps to go near em. Then rain skulls. I love stalkers, but if we're talking tournament competition the crawler looks way better.
The problem with crawlers is that you cannot leave them alone, if the enemy gets a unit within 3" they turn off. The other problem is that the guard move at 4 (7 with the CA) so getting on objectives turn 1 isn't guaranteed unless you also invest in fast units.
Basically, I think OBR is one of the best examples of balance since every unit is worth considering over another and every 2k list will have one or two weaknesses. I wish every book did this.
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24 minutes ago, Maturin said:
I'm really disappointed! Only the two drakes and dracoliens got a point reduction ? What the heck!
Furthermore, tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems that Longstrikes can't shoot 30" in ALL hero phase ? IF so that's incredibly stupid!
Yo bro, you see this unit ? it didn't move, but it can only shoot 24" right now. Yo bro, you see that unit ? It still didn't move, but now it can shoot 30" because "Shooting phase".
"Insert Picard facepalm".I believe the idea is that they spend their movement phase taking on the formation/aiming instead of moving, so it makes sense to me.
Also the point reductions seem pretty cool, dracolines and big dragons have a nice role to fill in the army since they don't need the deepstrikes to get in position.
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20 minutes ago, Cauthon said:
In Azyr, when you add a unit of chaos warriors to a list, you have the ability to select great blades, halberds AND chaos handweapons. In the same unit, at the same time.
So if in the OFFICIAL list building app you can have mixed weapons.. that seems conclusive.
This goes for every unit in the game with multiple weapon options.
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In the new tome, are any of the units in the pictures using mixed weapon options?
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Cogs modifies the move characteristic.
Comet looks at the move characteristic, it doesn't say unmodified so Cogs makes it harder for the comet to deal d6 mortal wounds.
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I don't think LoN will see another update, same with Cities of Sigmar. It feels like a final goodbye Battletome and eventually the older models/units will make room for new ones. Personally I would love a small update to warscrolls/mechanics to update everything to wholly within/unmodified rolls for every pre-2.0 tome.
There may be another new death army in the works for the next couple of years, but I don't see Soulblight/Deathrattle getting a new Battletome or new models.
For now Death feels pretty up to date with 4 main tomes, not bad considering LoN was the only real update in a long time before the NH, FEC and OB happened.
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5 minutes ago, EMMachine said:
It isn't what "without faction" has meant to be.
I'm pretty sure they mean that those battalions can be played in any faction in that Battletome. The same Battletome also includes information on factions, so even tho it's a mess of rules and keywords it checks out.
Legion of Grief not including Nighthaunt battalions is a choice, they didn't include them in a very specific list of models that they are able to take.
On what they should do:
GW should make sure that every tome includes all options it is allowed to take and doesn't use different wording every time. Every errata, tome or warscroll being written by different people isn't making this easier either. Players should also not try to break every possible rule combination and keep the game fun and fair.
Unfortunately neither of those will happen for now and RAW vs RAI discussions will never end in the current format.
My advice (and that of GW) is to just talk with your players and decide how you guys are gonna play your games.
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The solution to the LoN battalions is pretty simple imo.
Death isn't a faction to begin with, it's a Grand Alliance. Therefore the battalions don't have a faction listed above them and as per FAQ belong to all factions in the battletome including Soulblight.
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The double turn is a big part of what makes AoS so good despites it's simplicity. Without it we'd have another 40k style game where winning by tabling an army through mathhammer is easier then actually scoring points through objectives.
The uncertainty of what happens next forces you to make tough decisions instead of autopiloting on track, which makes for a very interesting game.
Besides that, the excitement of that one roll is always fun! Unless it gets overtaken by salt I guess.
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10 minutes ago, Inquisitorsz said:
Show you what list?
One that does what? Spams good units? Or one that has a 20-40 man Mortek Guard unit that bubble wraps a Harvester and sits on an objective?For the former, there's plenty of armies that can spam strong units, like:
15 bow kurnoth hunters. Or 15 skyfires. Or some equivalent number of Eels? Or 3 Keepers of secrets? or 4 Mortek Crawlers?
The latter is a nothing overly special and probably in almost every OBR list.
I never mentioned any specific boogie man list. I'm talking about spamming specific units in general and how some armies can find it very difficult to deal with bubble wrapped single models. Especially if that model is a 10 wound 4+ save thing that can be healed. That's different to sniping a 5 wound wizard with a 5+ save.Do you ever play with objectives or against people with good movement options? Again, review those rules and try to build an actual list with those 4 crawlers and see what happens.
There have been plenty of spammable problematic units in the past, keepers being the most recent. Those units are spammed because they lack a clear counter-strategy or weakness. Crawlers aren't one of those units.
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3 hours ago, JackStreicher said:
On spot.
Undying units and killing your infantry heroes at range with a single unsaved wound. - S-O mUcH fUn! 👏🏼
I am painting mine up and then they go on eBay ^^(Slaves to Darkness DOn‘t you dare to disappoint me!)
3 hours ago, Inquisitorsz said:Yep the thing I don't like the most about OBR is the harvester. Most armies won't have the means to snipe it thorough a Mortek Guard bubble.
On one hand every army should have some way to snipe heroes because of how important they are in AoS. And you could use that to kill the harvester.... but a lot of armies don't have that. MW spells can often be short range, and endless spells don't help much because they can't move close enough to bubble wrapped models. Quite a few armies don't have any significant shooting at all.
The other thing is the +1 save. While that's not terrible on it's own, I fear that it's going to lead to even more MW spam in the future (as people adjust lists and as the next power creep battletome comes out). I don't think that's going to be good for the game long term.
Mortek Guard, especially with a harvester backup and the +1 save simply seem too efficient. But making them 150 or 180 pts might not be enough and you risk making them too expensive.
The final problem is unit spam. This is prevalent in quite a few armies. On one hand it's cool to make a whole army out of stalkers or kurnoth hunters or some other elite unit. On the other hand, making a whole army out of the strongest and most point efficient killing machines in your battletome is just boring min/maxing. Spamming casters in hallowheart or catapults in OBR just leads to negative play experiences in my opinion.There's no easy fix for that though.
Only thing I can think of is a composition based point system. Eg, first catapult is 200, second one is 220, third one is 260 etc... So you pay a tax if you want to spam something.
Often in this game 1 single unit is never completely broken. But it becomes a problem when you can fill 1600pts of your army with that one strong unit, without any downsides.Show me this magical list that does all those things please, because I don't see it.
All I see are people complaining about ghost stories so far. Try building an actual list with them, it's the cure to many AoS fears in my experience.
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1 hour ago, Vasshpit said:
Question: Im assuming when building Mortek Guard that the unit leader should receive the great blade for first 10?
It's optional, the greatsword trades in the extra hits on 6s for a +1 on wound rolls so it's more of a side-grade then an upgrade vs the normal swords. In a spear unit the greatswords are good tho.
Up to personal preference I'd say.
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1 hour ago, Forrix said:
Gotta say I hate this to the point I'm thinking of quitting. Maneuvering doesnt matter when their 130 point battle line beats your 400 point tricked out killing machine let alone any chaff or objective runners.
But they don't. You likely lost because you misplayed, your opponent had the winning strategy and the dicerolls weren't in your favor.
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1 hour ago, MKsmash said:
No idea what an OBR competitive list would be like, but here's what I got:
Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Petrifex Elite
Leaders
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (360)
- General
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)
Battleline
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Spear and Shield
- 3x Soulcleaver Greatblades
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Spear and Shield
- 2x Soulcleaver Greatblades
Units
3 x Immortis Guard (200)
3 x Immortis Guard (200)
Behemoths
Gothizzar Harvester (200)
Gothizzar Harvester (200)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Bone-tithe Shrieker (30)
Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 105
Posted without artefacts or command traits because I don't know what's good.
Seems pretty solid once you get in position, but how will you reach the objectives before your opponent blocks you? 9 drops is too much for first turn and with roughly 4-7 RD per battle-round there aren't a lot of buffs to go around.
I'm having trouble building a reliable list without giving up some of the goodies, leaning towards 2 battalions to keep the drops low.
I'm really curious to see more lists, especially those that can show how OP the army supposedly is cuz I really don't see the issue.
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11 minutes ago, Edoval said:
Is there an answer to the title of this subject now ?
I mean, games have been played, maybe some people bring Ossiarch-Bonereapers to tournaments.
Are they so strong ? What about their power in Petrifex ? And in other legions or without one ?I bought the army before reading the battletome because i liked the models, but i wonder if this a fun army to play against for my friends...
Sorry not a native speaker.
The answer is no, they're not hilariously overpowered. They're pretty good, along the lines of most recent tomes like Mawtribes, Orruks, Cities of Sigmar.
Bonereapers have multiple ways to build a competitive list a well as plenty of options for a more friendly approach, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Currently Slaanesh is the only real outlier in terms of power, maybe Skaven is up there too but with the FAQ supposedly bringing them down a bit we're in for a pretty fair environment. Assuming they don't mess up the next couple of tomes.
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That sounds like a great idea! Great colours too.
Assuming you order 3000+ dice again, how much would a set of 25 cost me?
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6 minutes ago, Ninjon said:
...Because it doesn’t limit you to “once per unit per charge”, and GW has had the “once” CA wording on LOCKDOWN lately. If it doesn’t say “once”, they actively chose it to be worded that way (theoretically).
Also your argument based on “charge phase” is completely invalidated at every turn based on previous GW rules and updates. An aspect of a phase is not given some “finite window” to work within, look at IDK or Orruk spamable CAs, they all work in the same “small window” that you claim this one does.
It's not just in the charge phase, it's limited by the fact that a unit can only finish a charge move once. Unlike for example the start of a phase, this is a limited window per unit. Same with "After a unit fights for the first time" abilities, they don't stack either.
Just because it is a command ability doesn't mean it can be spammed.
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I don't get why people automatically assume that the Deathriders Command Ability can be used multiple times. We all know it's not meant to be.
A unit only finishes a charge move once, so there is only one window to do it. Same with the existing command abilities that happen after a unit fought for the first time and alike.
Please don't force even more and longer FAQs by assuming there are loopholes everywhere, there are plenty of badly written rules already so no need to push the well written ones in there too.
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I think it was a good move, especially in combination with games like Warcry also coming with a bunch of scenery. Empty tables are a thing of the past.
Faction terrain as part of their Allegiance Abilities works pretty great. The only thing I find somewhat iffy is the scenery table in GHB2019. Allowing someone to bring only Arcane terrain or especially faction specific pieces like Realmgates and Mausoleums is just asking for abuse. It's fun when mixing it up or creating scenarios, but gets old real fast when Steve brings his 4 extra graveyards and 2 arcane stones every game.
I think the GHB2019 terrain rules could be better, but as a whole I do think specifying terrain rules for matched play is a good thing. Maybe prevent duplicates or update some warscrolls so generic terrain won't benefit a specific faction.
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27 minutes ago, Platypus said:
Can normal command points be used for the OBR command abilities? Don't know if anyone can ally them in yet, but for the sake of argument, in a GA: Death army.
I don't see why not. They are command abilities and the restrictions regarding command points are part of the Bonereapers allegiance abilities.
The way I read it:
Ossiarch Bonereapers allegiance abilities prevent you from using regular command points, but instead give you Relentless Discipline points.
These can be spent on any command ability on Ossiarch Reaper Warscrolls and the ones provided in their Allegiance Abilities. This includes Arkhan and Nagash since they get the keywords if you put them in.
So no GHB2019 or Core Rules command abilities.
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In this case yes, a LoN general can revive an allied SUMMONABLE unit. Gravesites can also heal/resurrect allied SUMMONABLE units.
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I think loads of people picked it up as a second way to play, it's a new little format to make smaller games more interesting.
Around here people are hyped about it and it's being played about as much as regular old 2k. Then again, we also like 1500 or 1250 games here to break up the lists a bit.
It allows for a lot more variety in listbuilding.
AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion
in Stormcast Eternals
Posted
Not when you consider that the 500 point unit does can do other stuff as well and the 260 point unit needs to be supported by resources and spells from other expensive units to stand a chance. And even then you are playing their strong suit (melee), theres still the option of shooting and only engaging in favorable melee combat.