MotherGoose
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Posts posted by MotherGoose
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7 hours ago, Troll.exe said:
Does anyone have any clarification on the hero phase sequence of blood tithe and prayers yet?
Will we be able to blood sacrifice then spend that tithe for 3x d6 movement in the same hero phase?
Prayers are during hero phase, blood tithe is spent at the end of the hero phase.
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6d6 depravity points per round or 6d3 mortal wounds to your opponent per round or a mixture of both *just from that one battle trait*
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Yeah I'd love a rework to the spells, hadn't even crossed my mind for some reason!
I'm confident we will get 6++ baked in without needing to be near graves/heroes - every death army has had it given without the need for auras now. With that in mind, I wonder if grave sites will stay/change? I also feel like our healing/ressurection may get a slight tweak now that so many armies essentially have better versions and....thats kinda our jam.
New grave guard models would be incredible. Vampires being how they should be too - currently a goblin warlord is better in combat than a vampire lord which is just crazy. I'd love the legion of blood vampire abilities to become a warscroll thing (+2 to cast/dispel or +2 attacks) rather than be locked to a subfaction - hell i hope they expand on that even more and give vampires more choice.
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With the rumours our new tome is coming alongside Bonereapers, what are your guys thoughts?
Majority of 3.0 tomes have been great, but SBG are in a fairly unique spot with the amount of subfactions/different mechanics and abilities and access to different tables of artefacts and traits for each one. I must admit I'm a little worried they will water each one down and give us a single table of artefacts/traits. That said, maybe that won't be such a bad thing? Half of them are useless currently anyway.
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10 hours ago, JerekKruger said:
That's a different sword, this is the one:
That said, the one you linked looks quite Slaaneshi too, so perhaps from the likely Warcry warband?
I think the one I posted is from the female vampire in the crimson court.
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11 minutes ago, Goatforce said:
Think there might have been one like that, also I could swear that the feet on that statue head were a rumour engine too...
Feet definitely were. The gloved hand with ornate blade i remember too but I'm sure that was solved a while back though I can't remember the exact mini - crimson court? A slaanesh release?
Edit: was this the gloved hand one?
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1 hour ago, Nezzhil said:
Khorne!
New priest.... or base of valkias spear is my guess.
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21 minutes ago, DinoJon said:
I had the exact same thought and then I was like "no, no, I'm just being greedy." I am hoping we get more than the 4 kits that have been gifted to us by Whitefang and we just haven't guessed the other ones. I had a dream last night they revealed a new starseer... I probably should devote some energy to not lizards.
What ones has whitefang hinted at?
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24 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:
Askurgan trueblades warscroll is up! Yes please to this!! Its a little bit complicated of a warscroll but I like it.
Im assuming the khorne-dogs 🤭 is as well.
Trueblades seem quite cool, not sure they'll be worth taking over GG but they could be fun in a kastelai army for full vampire lists.
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So with everyone and their nan getting access to mortal wound saves, death is feeling less unique in that regard.
Also soulblight is now the only death army still restricted when it comes to their mortal wound save (be near a hero or grave).
Do we think this will change? Personally I hope so... graves could be such a cool mechanic, already playing a pivotal role with ressurections, but what I'd like to see is a buff to our ward saves for being near them. Or maybe a 'ressurection' mechanic like necrons in 40k - let's say if you're within 12 of a grave and a model dies, you roll a dice and on a 5+ the model returns.
Just a thought after seeing FEC now getting 6+ ward without restrictions as before.
What do we think, will we be next to just have the ward?
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5 hours ago, woolf said:
haha well you can probably generalise that to: "compare what gutrippaz do to <enter random warscroll> do..." a personal favourite is dire wolves given how similar their profiles are (same except wolves have higher move & bravery with a better warscroll ability for 135pts vs 180pts...........)
I can't remember where I saw it, but there was a mention of what goes into points for units, and allegiance abilities and ability access goes into points decisions too - also don't forget gutrippaz have 2" range so always fight in 2 ranks minimum (big nerf with the new ghb with the 0.5 inch attacking in 2 ranks thing, but still 2 inch range is/has been great).
Before the new ghb dire wolves would find it extremely difficult to get more than 5 or 6 attacking without breaking cohesion, gutrippaz didn't care.
Dire wolves do f all in the save stacking meta, gutrippaz don't care.
The downside to gutrippaz for me is that they don't really fulfil a role that the army needs. You can build around them to be absolute glass cannons, but you already have boltboyz etc. For mortal wound output and heroes for hammers.
I can't see them reducing their cost without removing/changing access to mortals on 5s and 2 mortals on 6s etc.
Off topic a bit...
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33 minutes ago, Jarminiatures said:
Setting aside how unlucky you were in this scenario, and that LRL with Teclis are kind of a hard counter to him for this, but surely the most NPE thing in the game is Hand of Dust? For the 95%+ of models in the game that don't have an ignore or reduce/negate damage from this - it's a straight up 50/50 if you die. At least with Sentinels you have to commit one of the max five chances you get per game with 340/510 points worth of models into one target to maybe kill them.
On Teclis' autocasting too, whilst the risk of the miscast is removed with Teclis, I'd rather have 8 casts with a 3+ than 4 autocasts.
Yeah I was so hopeful for them to reduce his cost and remove/change hand of dust. Currently he's really just a gimmick for 1k points, it was just going to be a fun friendly battle nagash vs teclis.
At least he still has to be within 3 (or pay extra for portal) and cast it, get through unbinds (a lot of auto unbind now), and then it's a 50% chance of a kill, so you can play around it a little. Especially if he doesn't bring portal.
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10 minutes ago, UltimateManiac said:
Its crazy how our playing experiences differ
in all this games i played my Warden were far off from making huge damage. Yeah they have that -1hit effect, but to keep that effect they cant charge and only have a 1" Pile in, also the bases have to touch 2 other bases each others, so you cant place them in long lines.
Also where comes hat d3 Mortal Wounds from, Moonfire Flask? They only get a +1 Wound and +1 Rend on Charge and most of the time there is nothing left from the warden after they got charged. Most of the times i play against Fyreslyer, Seraphon, Soulblight and Orruks. Sentinels do nothing against 60 Zombies and some Units can also pass the Mortal Wounds on a 3+ to other units. Fyreslayer just run over everything and they benefit quite well with the new GHB.
Please dont get me wrong, surely Lumineth got some good stuff, but i feel like every army got some other good stuff too
Yea it's all personal experience I guess! And depends on lists, sometimes feels like you could reveal lists and be like ok you win let's do another lol.
Again, I'm not saying LRL are too good or anything and theyre not stomping tournaments. They just have a fair few examples of what I personally feel results in NPE - mass Mortal shooting, impossible to catch movement, super tanky capability, auto casting at high value etc etc. It may not be OP a lot of the time, but it has resulted in NPE.
Another example of mass mortals - I've used skarbrand before and in a single turn killed a keeper and shalaxi. I've also used him and killed the glottkin + a blob of rats (2v2) and it didn't feel good on my end either, felt like it took the fun from the game.
My insenate rage bloodthirster sometimes does 0 damage, sometimes does like 20 and 10+ mortals to everything around him. It's again what I mentioned about units being 'swingy' it can lead to NPE on both teams.
It just seems that there's such a huge amount of mortal output at the moment and I can't see it toning down, as in some cases it's needed with the sheer amount of save stacking capability.
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1 minute ago, JackOfBlades said:
It just seems to me that picking off elite models with low wound counts is exactly what the lumineth, or at least that lumineth build, would be meant to do. Sort of like how youd expect that if a khorne list brings a bloodsecrator, skull altar, hexgorger skulls, mage eater, skullshard mantle, spellbane hex, a wrath of khorne bloodthirster, and skaarac the bloodborne, it wouldnt necessarily be an "NPE" that your magic-based list wouldnt work so well.
My point is that you can't really interact with it, which leads to NPE. The khorne list you mentioned revolves around a slaughterpriest. He has to chant (yea with rerolls) but can easily die, chants can be unchanted (cant remember the technical term), attempts can happen x2 per round, the bloodthirster can barely do anything at range, so you have time and screens, it doesn't do mortals so you can save and fight back, or use shenanigans like fight last, opponent might make mistakes and have to pick a different unit to fight first, meaning you get to fight the target before getting hit, they may fail charges, you may get the drop on them etc.
Not rolling for spells could be less NPE if it was their casting value, like 6, 7 or 8 but 10+ as the worst case is just a bit lame.
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12 minutes ago, JackOfBlades said:
You mention using fairly expensive units with a low wound count per point - vlozd, vengorian, nagash. Out of curiosity, do you also get this NPE vs lumineth when you do something like plop down 140 zombies in legion of night?
I don't like to bring npe or play against it, so have never brought 140 zombies so can't comment really.
Plus the thought of building and painting that many makes me want to puke....might try it on tts one day.
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9 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:
It not just heroes. Non-hero units - especially those intended to be tanky - need tools to stick around longer as well.
Stuff like, for example, Mymidesh Painbringers get a marginal advantage by having a +1 to their saves on their warscroll, but a single +1 does very very little to keep them alive against hammers that can easily bring 2-3 rend. Having the ability to stack mystic shield and AoD on there gives them the potential to actually do their job and not be summarily removed from play. And its not like those things are free - CP are valuable, meaning AoD is an expense. Mystic Shield requires a Wizard (points cost), and can only be in one place at a time. The same is true of essentially all save bonuses.
Removing save stacking just turns the game back over to rendy hammers, because investing in survivability becomes meaningless - you aren't able to boost units to where they can survive anyway, so doing so is wasted points. It just turns the game into 'Trading Hammers', and thats a horrible feeling IMO.
Yea I get that - I'm really hoping it doesn't go the 40k way with huge amounts of rend. The armies I play and play against in my group have little access to rend, and 2 to 3 is rare (other than beasts of chaos now lol) so when we come across stacking it's just not fun. Maybe the issue lies with the amount of rend in the game? There's definitely too many mortals imo.
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30 minutes ago, UltimateManiac said:
Would be interesting to hear what else he got in his Army. +1 Save Command = -1CP, Gem can be used just by one unit per phase and its gone, also -1 bravery. Scenery can happen, thats not Lumineth exclusive. Lumineth has no Heroes >130 Point (before new GHB) so i would realy like to know what else he got in his Army.
I just started playing AoS like 6 Months before and im really struggling with my Lumineth. Sentinels do a decent Job, i dont get the hate they receive. I got a pack of 30, thats 29 shots with MW on 6+. 5+ if you get the spell through. Even if they all shoot on one target thats around 5-7 MW. Sure maybe it will kill small Heroes >7 Wounds, but thats not guaranteed and its 500 Points shooting at 150 Points.
The 5+ Ward comes with Teclis (remember 740 points) and all he does is the same thing every turn, Protection of Teclis, (5+ Save Bubble), Total Eclipse and maybe a Spellportal and his Damage Spell or something like Teleportinig Vortex. That's 1200 Points - the rest of the army cant compete against anything else in the game. Warden can't screen anything on the board, Alarith are a joke with the current book. What else do we have, where comes that the hate from?
Standard teclis, wardens, sentinels and a few other support - I'm not hating or saying the army is op or anything, just an example of how save stacking can be silly. Pretty sure the garrisoned hero was the dude that can plant the banner, so it was +1 save command, +1 gem, +1 cover and +1 heroic action, which, imo, just shouldn't be able to happen. I'd like to see a cap at save stacking of +2 maybe?
29 shots with 5s doing mortals, ignoring line of sight at 30 inch range definitely is NPE, that's the main thing in LRL that's just silly imo. Yeah you can say 'on average' its like 7-9 mortals for 500 points, but thats 7-9 mortals to pretty much whatever you want, without your opponent being able to stop you in a lot of cases, *per turn*. There's not many units in the game that could take out a 150-200 point unit turn 1, and continue to take out 150-200 points every single turn. Melee mortals are nothing in comparison as you can easily play around them with screens and movement, they also have the pre requisite of needing a successful charge first. Every army has something to help against melee, even if it just a chaff screen. Not every army has something to stop extremely good mortal wound ranged.
The huge swings are what ruin it. I've played nagash vs teclis and 30 sentinels before and nagash died turn 1. It was a mixture of horrendous luck on my part (misscast on first spell) and disgustingly good luck on my opponents part (teclis hit everything through portal and got so many 6s, archers hit a crazy amount of 5+s).
As others have said, these type of abilities would probably be wayyyy less 'NPE' if they were on the wound roll instead.
Luckily my opponent knows it and only brings 20 or less most battles. Tbh anything dishing out mortals at range is a bit of a weird one in my opinion, you can't really avoid it with the non existing terrain rules in AoS. Take boltboyz as another example - kruleboyz are in no way op, but the boltboyz can just downright make the game not fun with wild swings and lots of 5s and 6s alongside the sludgeraker.
I also don't agree with wardens not being able to screen anything in the game. They're an extremely good unit and also have access to the once per game gem, -1 to hit formation, d3 mortals when they get charged, +1 to save command, 5++ from teclis, maybe a +1 from mystic shield and suddenly they're -1 to hit, immune to rend 3 and, if they have their spell on, dish out crazy damage - again the swings of loads of 5s. I've had a unit of 5 wardens kill a full health vengorian lord before even rolling wound rolls.
This isn't just wardens - again just an example. Picking a different army (one that I play) - blood knights, built in 6++ pretty much, 3+ base save, lots of access in the army to debuffs like -1 to hit, wound or attacks, can receive cover, mystic shield etc. It all adds up extremely quickly. However, the main difference is that I have to cast those spells, and potentially get dispelled. Which brings me back to my original post - automatic abilities like auto casting on 10+ is just NPE. I don't care how much you spend on a unit, with abilities like that it'll always feel bad for the opponent. If your opponent can't get to teclis to kill him, your army will most likely always have all the best spells up every turn, with no risk of failure. And that leads to NPE for the opponent, and is something (along with 30 inch ignoring los archers) I hope they tweak in the new book. I don't want them to become bad, my brother plays LRL and I like them, but armies/units can be good and fun to use/play against without being frustrating for the opponent.
Something else I've thought about, being an avid 40k player too, is the 'cap' they have in 40k - take necrons for example, can spend a stratagem (cp) to do mortal wounds on 6s to hit (or wound can't remember), but it caps at 3 and any other 6s are just successful hits.
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17 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:
And this is where subjectivity comes into it.
While the situation you described above is annoying, what sounds much much worse to me is the world where absolutely nothing survives at all, because you can't expend effort to increase survivability.
Even in a world with save stacking, offense feels like it wins over survivability in general - by the bottom of turn 3, it's merely the fragmented remnants of a couple/few units running around the table.
Absolutely everything dieing to hammers approximately equally as easily to rend because you can't negate/oppose it sounds like Hell.
Save stacking - the ability to interact, expend effort, opportunity and resources to increase a models survivability - is one if my favorite things about 3E.
Because it is interactive, and makes me feel like I do have agency to stand up to hammer units.
But then it leads to more and more mortal wound abilities like we have now to have a way around save stacking, +1 save command is good enough imo without adding in heroic action +1, LRL gems +1, cover +1, mystic shield +1 and garrison etc. on top of it. Wouldn't be so bad if it was 40k where the 'rend' is off the chain and incredibly common. Units being able to easily ignore rend 3 makes people lean more into the mortal spam as well, because what's the point in anything else?
One thing I agree with is heroes need to stick around more - but they went about it the wrong way, they just need a better los rule to make it harder to auto kill smaller heroes at distance.
I'm not sure I agree with all hammers killing everything by turn 3, this is where msu and screens come in, but when your screen can suddenly be +3 save it gets a little silly. Even if it was a lot dead by turn 3, there's only 2 turns left in the battle, things have to kill and get killed otherwise it'd lead to boring stalemates if the majority of your army was still alive and kicking turn 3 and into 4.
Granted I like the bonus to save command and the choice between that or +1 to hit, and mystic shield is way more beneficial now than ever, and generally am loving 3rd, however they clearly introduced these mechanics without a thought to the broken NPE combos it would introduce.
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23 hours ago, Gokken said:
save stacking: because it jacks up the value for mortal wounds so insanely much rend 0 and 1 attacks need 6 attacks to score one damage where as mortals on 4+ or 5+ need 2 or 3 attacks. You would need 110 attacks to hurt a maw crusher on a 2+ save........
Oh yea I agree with a lot of what you've said but this one hits home.
LRL heroes are unkillable for a round and near enough the whole battle, especially when garrisoned. A little 5 wound hero once tanked my prince vhordrai and some other stuff as he was sat in the waterfall scenery.
I charged him, and he popped +1 to save command, used the gem thing LRL have for +1, was in scenery for +1 and -1 to hit, so a 100 point 5 wound hero suddenly was -1 to hit and immune to rend 3 and had a 5+ ward.
I really hope they remove save stacking. The +1 command is fine if there is very minimal access to other buffs, with an army like LRL its way too good. It may be better if cover provided something different, such as reroll 1s or something.
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Gotta be mortal wound spam for me.
Shooting mortals at that. At least against melee I can screen and move around. The terrain in AoS has barely any impact.
Shooting mortals on 5+ or better and its just downright boring and not fun. You may as well just say 'I pick this hero or lord and they're dead', feels like there's literally no point in rolling dice, which is the point of the game.
Imo shooting mortals on 6s is already strong, shouldn't be able to ignore line of sight, should be short range and there should be no way *at all* to make it better than 6s. It literally just removes fun.
In general I feel like NPE is usually around changing the core rules of the game. No rolls to hit, wound or save vs mortals. No line of sight archers, spending 2x commands to do a single ability, casting spells automatically with the worse being a 10 - at least a lord of change or even nagash still has to roll, which means they can misscast, not cast, cast on a lower value and be dispelled - it leads to the hope of interaction with the opponents abilities or even actual interaction and dispelling. Hoping they change teclis in the next book to have to roll.
Sounds like I'm talking about LRL - it just so happens they have access to a lot of NPE, but boltboyz, dragons etc all can too.
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Okay after some tweaking of lists, reading of rules and playing my first game with the ghosts (tts) they play way differently to sbg and I love it.
They're *so fast* and manoeuvrable with retreat and charge. Olynder had put in work.
The chagr ability they all get is tasty. I've only played one game but already feels like cheap screens and landing your charges is even more important with the ghosts.
Ethereal is still sweet. Was thinking 4+ ethereal won't be as great now everyone has such easy access to save stacking, but it's nice being able to just not care about what rend is coming in.
My chainrasps suffered. I think msu or bigger blobs is needed in the new ghb.
Black coach is f***** awesome. Near enough always has 4+ ward and shooting 3d3 mortals and then d3 on charge is sick.
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1 hour ago, The_Dudemeister said:
As a fellow Necron player, that's easy to answer: Canoptek Wraiths
4+ Invuln, fall back and charge, high movement, "fly". Sounds familiar? Now imagine an army full of Wraiths (or Harlequins for that matter) and you basically get the jist of it.
FEC and Soulblight with their generic lists play more like fully supported 20-man Warrior blobs where you can reasonably out-attrition your enemy. If you can sit on an objective and let the enemy come to your beefed up castle, that's the dream.
While Nighthaunt/Wraiths are fast, higher-quality wound models that charge right up there in the front. You reasonably heal a bit here and there and get a model back. Not to the same extent as FEC and Soulblight, but every brought back model is also a bigger deal.
It's a slightly different take on undead style armies but still fits right in there
Yea tbh that describes it so well! They sound fun and different to my current armies, so would feel fun having different styles even though they're all death.
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6 minutes ago, Vastus said:
So Terminexus actually doesn't return models, but you can get Lifeswarm instead. I think Nighthaunt don't have the level of recursion of SB, but if you add all the different sources up it can become quite a lot.
The main source of recursion that you've missed are the Spirit Torments, which will return 3 wounds worth every Battleshock phase. A unit cannot benefit from more than 1 per turn, but if you bring multiple you can regenerate multiple units of course.
If you want to make a list based on this, I think you can do so. Just bring Olynder, a Guardian of Souls with MoM (and Midnight Tome to guarantee Lifeswarm), one or two Spirit Torments and the Emerald Lifeswarm.
You also need some blocks of units which depends a bit on your subfaction and if you want to adjust for the upcoming season, but Chainrasps are always a cheap option which means you can easily get two blocks of 20 and have points left over. If you go Scarlet Doom you can go Bladegheists of course, but you won't be able to fit as much support (Spirit Host, Banshee, Dreadblade Harrow etc). Would've recommended Reapers before, but reach seems to be less relevant in the upcoming season.
Ah yes I remember looking at the torments, that is cool.
Shame about the terminexus... so it's better for characters/spirit hosts or using as a bomb to enemies. Seems a little pricey but would be fun to try, feel like lifeswarm is probably the better option.
Yeah I've toyed with some lists and seems like 2x20 ghasts is my goto base and then sprinkle in some blades etc.
Cheers!
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Random one for you ghost boys...
Thinking about collecting Nighthaunt. I already collect Soulblight, FEC, and Necrons in 40k... you can probably see a bit of a theme. I like 'undead style armies, love the new rules for Nighthaunt, seem super cool and thematic.
My question is - how do they play in comparison to my other armies who have a lot of 'tankiness' in terms of models coming back to life, whole units coming back etc.
Nighthaunt, from what I can see, only have the one hero (not including Olynder) who can regularly bring ghosts back - the little wizard dude, can't remember his name, and the mortalis terminexus endless which is quite pricey.
Do you feel the hits when your elite ghosts die, such as Bladegheists? One of my favourite things about soulblight is how it never feels too bad losing some Grave Guard, as they will come back anyway (unless fully destroyed - which still may come back half strength). Do ghosts have anything similar to this that I've missed?
I'm going to try some games on TTS and get a feel for them before I commit, but thought I'd come here too!
in all this games i played my Warden were far off from making huge damage. Yeah they have that -1hit effect, but to keep that effect they cant charge and only have a 1" Pile in, also the bases have to touch 2 other bases each others, so you cant place them in long lines.
AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion
in Chaos
Posted · Edited by MotherGoose
Great review overall but I feel you've missed some huge upgrades. Just some examples:
Bloodletters you say received some small nerfs but say nothing about their huge buffs. Double the previous wounds, double the attacks, double the range and +1 to hit.
Bloodcrushers got +1 save, +1 to hit and 5 wounds.
Blood warriors gained better attacks with rend in addition to what you listed.
Skullcrushers went up to 5 wounds with a 2+ save(!). Their weapons also got +1 rend so they have either -1 or -2 for the glaives.
Just a handful I noticed.