Dietzen
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Posts posted by Dietzen
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2 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:
Fair enough, in an effort to put this to bed I have tried again and this time managed a proper "live chat", rather than submitting my question and waiting for a response to come through via email.
The advisor confirmed there is no rules help desk, they are all one customer services team.
He did, however, answer my question. Below is the transcript.
So we now have 3 responses from 3 different people from the same team with the following conclusions:
1) you must take an allegiance trait/artefact first
2) you are free to pick
3) we are not allowed to comment and will pass it to the actual rules/FAQ team
Today’s chat with Rowan Hey Joe, If you’ve got any other questions, feel free to hit reply and continue the conversation. Here’s a copy of your discussion You Hello, do you have a specific help desk for advice with rules for Age of Sigmar that I could connect with? Rowan joined the chat Rowan Hi, thanks for getting in touch! We can help with rules queries here, what would you like to know? You Hello,
In section 27.4 of the AoS Core Rules, it states that "If the allegiance abilities for a subfaction include
a command trait and the general of your army has the keyword for that
subfaction, then that command trait must be the one you give to your
general. If the allegiance abilities for a subfaction include an artefact
of power and any Heroes in your army have the keyword for that
subfaction, then that artefact of power must be the first artefact of power
given to one of those Heroes."
Is this referring to those sub factions which only give you one choice of Trait and Artefact that MUST be taken (e.g. Gristlegore Flesh Eater Courts), or to all sub factions that give you a range of choices e.g. Kastelai Dynasty Soulblight Gravelords?
If it only refers to those that are "locked in" to a particular trait, are those that are free to pick allowed to use the generic command traits and artefacts from the Core Rules, e.g. "master of magic" or "amulet of destiny" as their first picks?
Thank you!Rowan This rule means that if your general is locked in, you will have to pick those specific abilities and artefacts. However, if you do not have a general that is locked in, then you can pick any options you like! This includes the generic traits and artefacts You Thanks Rowan, this helps clear things up. Do you know if it can be addressed in the next AoS FAQ, as currently there is a fair bit of discussion on this rule due to it being a little bit unclear. Rowan I'll certainly pass this on to the rules team for you! I won't be able to guarantee that this will be included but I can assure you that this will reach the rules team for you. In the meantime, was there anything else I could help with today? You Could I ask if you are from specific rules help desk or is this just the general customer service chat? Rowan This is the general customer service live chat. We've got a number of hobby specialists here, including myself, who are here to help with rules, lore and any hobby queries you might have! We're not a part of the rules team who make the FAQs, but we can contact them on your behalf with questions like this You perfect okay, thank you so much You can I get a transcript of this sent to my email? Rowan I'm glad I could help! You'll get a copy of this to your email once the chat has ended and if you have any other questions at all, please feel free to let us know. In the meantime, I hope you have a lovely day! You thanks you too! Rowan ended the chat You do realize he also confirms you have to pick from the table right? He literally says, if your general is locked in you will have to pick those specific ones..
Here's the chat I just had
Today’s chat with Brandon Hey Martin, If you’ve got any other questions, feel free to hit reply and continue the conversation. Here’s a copy of your discussion You Hello
I've got a question about the Age of Sigmar core rules section 27.4 and whether or not it affects the Soulblight Gravelords bloodlines?
Since the rule 27.4 says a/an trait/artifact and to use "that", it implies it only affects scenarios where there is a singular option?Brandon joined the chat Brandon Hello, thank you for getting in touch. Let me look into this for you now. Brandon Yes this would apply to them from my reading of the rules as the Vampire Bloodlines count as the subfactions for this army. You Okay, but what about the word usage, the 27.4 rule says if there is A command trait, or AN artifact, you have to use THAT.
Is this to be taken literally as in, it only should apply if there is a single option available?You Since each bloodline has 6 options for both command traits and artifacts (except Avengorii which has 3 ofc) Brandon A hero can only take one artefact of power hence the singular, they are taking an artefact of power from the list. You Okay, thank you for taking the time to get back to me :) Brandon No problem at all, anything else I can help you with? You Not currently no :) Brandon ended the chat
So I agree let's put this to rest in that you do actually have to pick from the available tables. ;)
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5 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:
Yes I saw that banner, it does say that, and I clicked the respective chat bubble and asked my question.
I don't think there is a specific "rules help desk", it's just the customer service team.
Oh sure it might just be their customer service team, but unfortunately atm they aren't open for direct chat, so can't verify like you wanted to.
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4 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:
Yep and fingers crossed it's addressed in a future FAQ.
For what it's worth I also contacted the live support out of curiosity, as I wanted to see if we'd get the same response twice or possibly a contradicting answer, and will paste the conversation below. Have bold/underlined the main bit.
I will forward my email over to the FAQ team, though they never actually respond.
{#HS:1611440291-800300#}Hi There,
Thanks for the email and your feedback. I'll be sure to forward on your feedback to our rules team to look into but at the same time I would suggest you forward this and any other rules related question to our specific FAQ emails.
Unfortunately as a customer service team trained in assisting with order and product related issues, we are not permitted to reply to rules question or offer clarity over how rules can be used. The forge world and greater Games workshop business have dedicated rules team and staff that design and publish all rules and FAQ's. As part of their role here in Games workshop they look over all relevant emails submitted in the correct inbox and will consider changes and updates that are necessary and issue them in a future FAQ
Any rules questions can be forwarded directly for their attention on the below email address's
40kfaq@gwplc.com for 40k FAQ question submissions and feedback
aosfaq@gwplc.com for AoS FAQ submissions and feedback
KillTeam@gwplc.com for Kill Team FAQ submissions and feedback
Whunderworlds@gwplc.com for Shadespire and Nightvault FAQ submissions and feedback
community@gwplc.com for general community-related questions
Thanks again!
Kind Regards
How would you rate my reply?
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Leeanne E
livechat@gwplc.comOn Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 8:58 AM BST, Joe Grzywinski <joe.grzywinski@live.co.uk> wrote:Hello,
In section 27.4 of the AoS Core Rules, it states that "If the allegiance abilities for a subfaction include
a command trait and the general of your army has the keyword for that
subfaction, then that command trait must be the one you give to your
general. If the allegiance abilities for a subfaction include an artefact
of power and any Heroes in your army have the keyword for that
subfaction, then that artefact of power must be the first artefact of power
given to one of those Heroes."
Is this referring to those sub factions which only give you one choice of Trait and Artefact that MUST be taken (e.g. Gristlegore Flesh Eater Courts), or to all sub factions that give you a range of choices e.g. Kastelai Dynasty Soulblight Gravelords?
If it only refers to those that are "locked in" to a particular trait, are those that are free to pick allowed to use the generic command traits and artefacts from the Core Rules, e.g. "master of magic" or "amulet of destiny" as their first picks?
Thank you!It looks like you got them at a point where their rules help desk wasn't open? Because when you live chat with them, they will be able to answer questions regarding the rules. There's even a banner in the AOS page (at least there was) that said something in the lines of "for questions regarding rules or.... something click the chat bubble"
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21 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:
As RuneBrush said, it's a transcript from customer support who may or may not be fully clued up, and in any case can't be used as a reliable source and not one that anyone "has to follow".
You've asked the question in quite a loaded manner also, for what it's worth, stating that core rules say x then asking whether bloodlines are sub allegiances in order to get the confirmation you are seeking.
You are free to interpret the rule as you think it is and others can do the same, until GW come out and clarify then it's a grey area and nobody can claim their interpretation to be the only way.
Also want to point out theres not bias from my end, I just want to figure out what's right or not.
If I just wanted to confirm my own preference, I'd have stopped when people say it doesn't affect Soulblight, since I actually do want to take the Amulet of Destiny in a lot of cases, rather than an artifact from the book.
Or the generic command trait that gives re-rolls to run & charge, rather than just charge from Avengorii. -
16 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:
As RuneBrush said, it's a transcript from customer support who may or may not be fully clued up, and in any case can't be used as a reliable source and not one that anyone "has to follow".
You've asked the question in quite a loaded manner also, for what it's worth, stating that core rules say x then asking whether bloodlines are sub allegiances in order to get the confirmation you are seeking.
You are free to interpret the rule as you think it is and others can do the same, until GW come out and clarify then it's a grey area and nobody can claim their interpretation to be the only way.
Yes I agree, it can be viewed from both sides. Don't think I asked it how you say though, I have to point out the things I want an answer to tbh
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24 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:
Being a bit mean your response is from a member of GW's customer service team, for them to say it's an official answer is them overstepping it a bit. The only official answers would be from the main studio ideally via an FAQ.
Yes ofc, I realise it's not the official response, but they are at a helpdesk for rules, and if I have to follow either A) people arguing whether or not a/an only affects singular terms or B) someone at GW, I think I know what I'll follow.
In either case people can chose to interpret the rules as they see fit, which they always do.
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Here's the transcript from the GW staff member I was in touch with, sent to my email. Added screenshots.
Today’s chat with Brandon
Hey Martin,
If you’ve got any other questions, feel free to hit reply and continue the conversation.
Here’s a copy of your discussion
You
Brandon joined the chat
Brandon
Hello, thanks for getting in touch. How can I help?
You
Can you see the question I typed in ? Else I'll just copy it down :)
Brandon
'27.4 mandatory traits/artifacts
Are Soulblight subject to this, even though their own battletome does not say so?' This one here?You
Yes indeed.
You
I want to clarify that I'm like 99% sure it affects Soulblight and that they are indeed subfactions, there's just a lot of people saying otherwise
You
Hello there - I've got a small rules question regarding AoS core rule 27.4 wherein it states if you have a subfaction, and it includes command traits/artifacts you have to chose one of those listed first - there is discussion as to whether or not that includes Soulblight, and if their bloodlines are indeed subfactions.
Could you clarify whether or not they are considered subfactions, and whether or not Soulblight has to take a command trait and artifact, before being able to chose one from the core rules?You
Also this
Brandon
From what I can see it would effect them. The Bloodlines fill the role of subfactions and each one possess both its own Command Traits and Artefacts of Power.
You
And per the core rules you'll have to then take one, before being able to dip into the core ones
Brandon
Yes that would be the case.
You
Can this answer be counted as an official standing from GW? So that I can relay the rules standing?
Brandon
Yes that would be perfectly fine. Bloodlines is the term for the subfactions in this book in the same way Legions are the subfactions in the Bonereapers battletome.
You
Thank you for clarifying for me :) have a good day :)
Brandon
You too!
Brandon
If you have any further queries as well please let me know or get back in touch.
You
I will.
Brandon ended the chat
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Just now, Liquidsteel said:
Sure, as I said it's ambiguous.
But the consensus in the competitive community here in the UK is that you are free to pick, unless it calls out a specific artefact and trait.
There are plenty of examples of this, such as Gristlegore FEC where you MUST take Savage Strike and Ghurish Mawshard.
That's why I prefaced the topic by saying that sentence has now moved to the core rules, and I'll wager the same goes for the next battletomes as well
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2 hours ago, Liquidsteel said:
I did initially agree with you, however that's not actually what the Core Rules say.
They say if the sub allegiance lists "an" artefact or "a" command trait, then you must take them as your first choice. Our allegiances list several artefacts.
This has been discussed on these forums and various other social media sites on several occasions, and the general conclusion has been the opposite of what you are saying.
Do you mind disclosing who this "GW representative" is, are they one of the rules team from HQ?
The whole a/an is a bit of a stretch argument imo, if I were to say
If there is an open restaurant in New York, I'll buy you a full dinner with drinks
And I then proceed to say, ha ha there isn't AN open restaurant, there are in fact many, so I don't owe you anything. You'd probably think I'm a downright ******.
To devote whether or not there is or isn't an option, doesn't say it had to be a singular choice, but rather is there is an option at all, be out 1, 2 or 6
Also, will have to see if I can get screens in, om my phone atm
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An is not a singular, it's "is there an option or not"
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Hello all
New to the forum, but I've seen a lot of lists taking the Amulet of Destiny as their one and only artifact, unfortunately you cannot do this
Unfortunately they removed the clause in the battletome that directs you to take a command trait and/or artifact from the book first, and wrote it directly into the Core Rules in section 27.4.
I've talked to a GW representative that confirmed this to be how it works.
So basically the new rules states if you have a sub-faction (and yes bloodlines are subfactions) that has any command traits and/or artifacts available, then you have to pick from any available as your first trait and artifact, before being able to take any others.
Just wanted to let ya'll know
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FYI
in Death
Posted
Also you asked the question in such a convoluted way that you force the meaning. Now I've just been in touch with Rowan again, and he agrees with Brandon
OR
Am I free to pick from the core rules, as there are multiple options to be taken in the bloodlines?
So we have 2 reps from GW directly telling us we need to abide by rule 27.4, and that's it.