shalvan
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Posts posted by shalvan
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22 hours ago, Malakithe said:
I need list ideas for magic damage heavy HostsDup and GoS
I tried the attached list in Hosts Arcanum. Throws around spells like it's nobody's business.
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6 hours ago, Tizianolol said:
Guys can a verminolord deceiver know flaming weapons?
Yes-yes
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Can coalition units be generals? I don't think so. If you swap a unit of pinks for screamers you can take a changecaster and end up with even 2000, then the changecaster can be the general.
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21 hours ago, Cosmicsheep said:
I need to run a few games without my trusty screaming bell. I'm wondering if the ability to use Inspiring Presence from the Clawleader is enough to keep the rats in check.
Now clanrats can use command abilities on themselves as long as they have a clawleader.
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12 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:
9 are probably enough.
Yet if you really enjoy painting these guys or just want to play 12 stormfiends at some point, I’d just go for it, maybe it'll be exactly the list that will dominate the meta.
I actually just came up with one.
It includes:
Heroes:175p
1Arch warlock:175p spells:mmmwp, general: deranged inventor, Artefacts: Talisman of destiny.
battleline:1705p
9Stormfiends:945p
6stormfiends:630p
5skryre acolytes:65p
5skryre acolytes:65p
others:75p
Warpgrinder weapon team:75p
Total points:1955p
yeah, this list has a ton of fire power.
And 15 stormfiends😋😜
It actually even has about 110 wounds. 95 on the Stormfiends, 6 on a warlock, 10 on the schools acolytes and 3 on the grinder. What would you use the grinder for? Is deranged inventor used in shooting?
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8 hours ago, PUFNSTUF said:
So what are people's thoughts on stormfiends as battleline in skyre lists in the new edition? Some acolytes in smaller or larger squads?
They need support and they kick butt. Don't take three small squads, it's bad for buff efficiency. My impression is that it's a very large opportunity cost to run them as a hammer. I put together a list with 9 Stormfiends, basically what you're left with is some MSU acolytes to fill the battlelines, then heroes to support the fiends. The thing is your need to protect them but you can't really screen and you don't get to use hidden weapon teams.
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That's just... I have no words
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4 hours ago, Feorag said:
I've not tried one yet but I do have a couple of ideas to test out.
I think enlightened will be done of our hardest hitters we have at the moment.
The Chronomantic Cogs might be one of the better spells now to try and get into combat turn one with Tzaangors or Enlightened. Though map-wide +2 was surely better than +1 to charge only within 18 inches. I guess for a tzaangor list we'd get a Tzaangor Shaman general and also a Great Bray-Shaman for his movement aura. Enlightened on Disk are so fast they should generally be able to reach the enemy T1, while regular Tzaangors could enter from Ambush.
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Just now, Qoolin said:
Unfortunately not possible. Bonuses to hit/wound are capped on +1/-1 and +1 for saves. 13.3 in new Core Rules.
Still possible to stack versus penalties to hit/wound (do they exist?) and rend such as Shining Company or Locus of Change.
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Do you think it could be possible to go for a Tzeentchy build focused on Tzaangors in the BoC allegiance? They got significantly cheaper now and they can hit like trucks. They do suffer from coherency though because of low attack range, and not having DoT agendas for bonus attacks after charge hurts. Have you tried such a build?
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7 minutes ago, Verminlord said:
You can reinforce rat ogors to 6 in Moulder. I honestly believe Moulder may have legs this edition. Idk if you have looked at the new battleplans and battle tactics, but doing nearly anything with monsters is getting you extra VP.
I know you can. But I don't want to play straight Moulder
I prefer Izzet over Simic, 
if you know any Magic lore.
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I am tempted to play them, but the fact that the toughened sinews is restricted to one unit coupled with the MSU of 2 puts me off somewhat, since you can only reinforce them once. I'd like a 6 or even 8-model unit of Rat Ogors, but that's not possible under the new ruleset. 4 models is still good, 24 wounds at 4+ with decent melee prowess for 190 points is certainly okay. Though I guess 6 models would have the problem of coherency ****** with delivering melee attacks.
No matter what, this is at least one of our precious reinforcement slots to be impactful.
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11 minutes ago, Verminlord said:
RAW weapon teams can only be revealed in your own shooting or charge phase.
I easily get salty. I am salty it is only Stormvermin and Clanrats. I want to hide them in Skryre acolytes especially, but could be fun to hide them in plague monks too, night/gutter runners less so because they are so fast. Giant rats is probably a stretch
The biggest problem to me is you can't hide them in pure Skryre army, otherwise an amazing and flavorful mechanic. Though 6 weapon teams jumping out of the last clanrat is super silly -
16 hours ago, Verminlord said:
Still working on my competitive build, but here are a couple of fun lists for your perusal:
Unleash Hell x Warp Lightning Cannon
Do you really like Warp Lightning Cannons? Do you want to shoot-kill in your opponents turn with no penalty to hit? Then this is the list for you.
Arch Warlock 175
-General: Skilled Leader (5+ CP every hero phase)
-Chain Warp Lightning
Shackles 65
Lifeswarm 60Vanguard:
Bombardier 125
-Warp Lightning Shield
-Vial of the Fulminator (x2 move on WLC)
Nightrunners x10 85
Nightrunners x10 85Hunters of the Heartlands:
Clanrats x20 130
Clanrats x20 130
Clanrats x20 130Grand Battery:
Bombardier 125
-Warp Lightning Shield
WLC 185
WLC 185Grand Battery:
Bombardier 125
-Warp Lightning Shield
WLC 185
WLC 185Total 1975
Overall just pure glass Cannon self destructive mayhem.
The Grand battery battalion let's you use Unleash Hell for free once per game, and importantly, does not count as an issued command, meaning you can use Unleash Hell 3 times in your opponents charge phase potentially. Hunters of the Heartlands turns off Monstrous Rampage abilities so that they can hopefully live longer screening WLCs.
Nightrunners tag objectives t1 and allow your clanrat/WLC bubbles to move forward. If nightrunners live the first round, Vanguard let's them auto run 6 for free once per game without it counting for being issued meaning you can do it for both in the same turn to get them even deeper into enemy territory.
Lifeswarm is there to heal up your WLCs that will obviously always be overcharging. Shackles prevents charges from deepstrike or a key objective. Bombardiers will be spamming overcharged rockets and warp lightning spells.
My next variation (and probably more competitive take) will take one grand Battery out for 2-3 Doomwheels in Alpha-Beast Pack for D6 pregame move on each one.
Puree' de Moulder
Warlord Battalion:
Warpseer/Skreech 335/330
-General: Skilled Leader
-Skitterleap/Warpgale
Master Moulder 95
-Rabid Crown
Master Moulder 95
-Arcane Tome (Becomes Wizard)
-Levitate (grants flying to a unit)
Giant Rats x6 40Hunters of the Heartlands:
Rat Ogors x6 285
-Toughened Sinews (6 wounds, 4+ save)
Rat Ogors x6 285
-Insanely Rabid (6 attacks, reroll charges)Alpha Beast Pack:
Hell Pit Abomination 240
-Never-never Die-die (reroll death effect)
Hell Pit Abomination 240Giant Rats 8x6(msu) 320
Shackles 65Total 2000/1995
Can't decide between warpseer and Skreech for the general. Warpseer is probably more competitive as you are getting an extremely tough to kill monster hero that gives cp on a 3+ and another on a 5+ with Skilled Leader and CP he uses is refunded on a 5+. Won't feel as bad using Master Moulders 5+ respawn on chaff because you'll be swimming in CP, though his unique command ability won't be super useful. He still has a 26" range D6 MW spell that turns off fly though. Skreech is interesting to me mostly for the fun factor of his unique spell. 9 minimum size giant rat units flooding the board plus multiple clanrat summons sounds fun. He's also a hero monster which has its benefits.
Warlord gives me an extra cp, and an extra artifact that lets me turn a MM into a wizard with Arcane Tome. He will probably be using mystic shield every turn on the toughened sinews ROs. Alternatively I could give the rabid ones flying if the opponent has a lot of screening. The toughened senews ROs also reach the threshold for counting as 2 models each, so that's 12 models for objective purposes on a 3+ with mystic shield, 6 wounds each.
I am still undecided on which Hell Pit mutation to take, but I do find that they die quickly once targeted and tend to do enough damage on the charge without buffs, so reroll respawn seems decent to me. Anyone know if warpstone spikes and other abilities that ignore "spell effects" ignore damage in addition to regular effects?
I think the rest is obvious if you're familiar with playing Moulder, but feel free to ask questions.
EDIT: aaaand one more
Rats in the Walls: An Eshin-ish List
Battle Regiment:
Verminlord Deceiver 345
-General: Master of Magic (Reroll cast/dispell/unbind once per hero phase)
-Flaming Weapon (+1 dmg chr to a weapon)
-Shadow Magnet (Fights first once per game)
Night Runners x10 85
Gutter Runners x5 65
Gutter Runners x5 65
Clanrats x20 130
Clanrats x20 130Battle Regiment:
Lord Skreech 330
-Warpgale
Clanrats x20 130
Warpgrinder 75
Warpfire Projector 70
Warpfire Projector 70
Night Runners x10 85Alpha Beast Pack:
Doomwheel 165
Doomwheel 165Shackles 65
Burning Skull 20
Total 1995The idea in this list is to maximize board pressence/objective pressure. Nightrunners and doomwheels both get D6 pregame moves, Gutter runners deepstrike, a unit of 20 clanrats deepstrike with warpgrinder and 2 warpfire throwers, Deceiver teleports himself, or Skreech, and Skreech summons clanrat speed bumps. Elite armies will really struggle to be in so many places at once.
Taking Master of Magic generic command trait on Deceiver to make sure he gets those key dreaded skitterleaps off. Not 100% about his artifact, but "fights first" in your opponent's turn might crank out just enough damage to finish off w/e target Deceiver goes for. Warpgale on Screech is there to turn off flying so I can screen scary stuff like Mawcrushas, but splinter may actually have place depending on how often coherency casualties ends up happening.
The list really leans on the two verminlords to dish out damage, but new heroic and monstrous actions should help with both output and survivability. It will have trouble against big high save flying smashers like Archaon, Morathi, and Mawcrusha. The double warpfire thrower will melt hordes. It is also 4 drops, which should out-drop most lists that aren't built around 1 or 2 dropping.
Lore of Ruin is Grey Seer only, so I believe you can't take those spells on Verminlords?
@Cosmicsheep
The new builds with stormfiends seem super squishy to me as of late. Sure, they have 4+ save and lots of wounds, but it still ends up being less than other things. Still, I'm inclined to try something where the Stormfiends play the role of Archaon. Even based on your list:One Drop 2 2000
Battle Regiment
Verminlord Warpseer 335Arch-Warlock 175
Warlock Engineer 125
Skryre Acolytes-5 65
Skryre Acolytes-5 65
Stormfiends-9 945Warplock Jezzails-6 290
Almost no screen and super glass-cannon, but with an aetherdust injector, spark and mmmwp this unit of Stormfiends can delete anything.
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1 hour ago, Verminlord said:
I think skaven are in a great spot and have a ton of viable strategies. I will post some lists later, but just wanted to say THE RATS ARE BACK BABY
Please post
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56 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:
Anyone else think Guild of summoners stonks are up? New cogs is a steal at 45 points giving a spell to each wizard within 6". I threw this together last night, and while there's certainly room for improvement and modification once we figure out how coalition works (this list would love gor/ungor/ungor raider chaff, maybe grashrak, and the gaunt summoner on disk is cheaper and an upgrade) Plus I've got no idea if the vortex beast is still gonna work.
Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Guild of SummonersBattalions:
-Command Entourage
-Enhancement: Spell Lores
-Battle Regiment
Leaders
The Blue Scribes (135)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (255)
- Lore of Fate: Treacherous Bond- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (185)
- General
- Command Trait: Prophet of the Ostensible
- Artefact: Brimstone Familiar
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (135)
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
Battleline
10 x Kairic Acolytes (125)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (125)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (125)
20 x Tzaangors (390)
Units
10 x Blue Horrors of Tzeentch (140)
Behemoths
Mutalith Vortex Beast (175)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Purple Sun of Shyish (70)
Chronomantic Cogs (45)
Tome of Eyes (50)
Total: 1965 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 112(147, pending horror changes)This list has 13 spellcasts if I wrap the heroes around the cogs, and it wouldn't be hard to bump the number up. I'd be interested in a ruling on whether kairics can try to cast their spell multiple times, but the current wording seems to indicate no.
What does the Vortex Beast bring that is worth it? The model seems generally underwhelming to me. You could consider darkfire daemonrift to be cast off of the Gaunt summoner
you can also cast up to 14 spells there if the changecaster spellcast goes well. First lord of change also brings beacon of sorcery which helps further.
Why Tzaangors? If you need bulk then probably warriors of chaos would be better, if we still can take them.
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Yeah, I also thought of this, since I have a KO player who runs Zilfin with an Ironclad filled with 20 thunderers and an aether-khemist with a Warp Lightning Vortex in a Bottle. The thing is that it's pretty hard to actually kill the Ironclad in one turn with its 3+ save and rerolls from spent aethergold. Now the triumphs are different, so perhaps it will be doable. Still, remember that each subsequent warpfire thrower will roll fewer dice, so deleting the 2-wound thunderers might not be possible. I'm not positive 3 ratlings can reliably (xD) take down an Ironclad. We're talking 6d6*2, or 42 attacks. All three will optimally reroll hits, but to wound stays the same, which means 3/4 hits, 1/2 wounds, which means 16 wounding hits at -1. Ironclad will surely get+1 to saves to stay at 3+, so we get 5 attacks in for 10 damage total. We need lots of luck on the rolls to kill the ship.
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Looks decent, but very glass-cannon. Are you going for an alpha strike with the engineer jumping through the gnawhole to get in range of the three ratlings? The MMMWP is kinda wasted since you don't have a target for it before shooting. With no skitterleap you don't really have a way to bring more points to the fight, and the weapon teams tend to just die, especially when hit by things such as Teclis's unique spell.
I am really unhappy with the point changes. The two armies I'm most interested in - Skaven and DoT mortals - got huge point increases to the units I like most, including Stormfiends (over 20%), and Kairic acolytes (25% up, when it was the Daemon side that was a problem). I love the Doomwheel too and I don't think the point increase was justifiable on a model that didn't really see any play...
Would going for 9 Stormfiends unit with two units of 10 acolytes make any sense? No hidden weapon teams shenanigans whatsoever though, as you can only hide them in a mixed army. Still, a highly buffed unit of 9 stormfiends with vigordust, MMMWP and a spark should put out insane damage. The army wouldn't have screening though and it's putting all eggs in one basket, as those 9 Stormfiends are pretty much half the army at 945 points.
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3 hours ago, Cosmicsheep said:
Rule 13.3 states that the save roll cannot be modified by more than 1
So does this mean our clanrats and stormvermin clan shield ability cannot be modified further? Even by cover? This makes the 3+ armour save of other armies that much better
There is a clause that explains it. So you cannot stack positive modifiers easily, but you can stack bonuses to save against high rend as long as you don't exceed the rend and other negative modifiers by more than one.
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9 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:
Yeah, he really could put out a lot of damage.
I might have to try some stuff out.
I’m just a bit sad that our clawlords, currently aren’t able to take any mighty warlord traits because of the new rule limitations.
hopefully, this will be faqed
I don't think this is the case. Specific rules override general rules. The Verminus Battle Trait says you can take more than one command trait, so you can despite the core rule. There is no clause like for the hit, wound and save rolls in the new Core Rules.
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Hello,
I'm a new player looking to try playing with disciples of Tzeentch using proxies. I am not a fan of most daemon models, I do quite like the screamers, however. So I did compile a Hosts Arcanum list focusing on them as battleline - basically a spam. I figured they are great against monsters and against wizards, the problem I would see against hordes - but then we do have spells to help with this issue.
Could you please take a look and give me some feedback on the list?
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Hi guys,
I'm a new player, so far we're playing in a group of four friends, using proxies to test armies to decide what we like. I played only Skaven so far, since I love the mad science feel of Skryre (don't really like Pestilens or Eshin though). The other army I'm considering, but I am yet to try, are the Disciples of Tzeentch, as strong magic is another theme that I really like. My first list was Warpcog Convocation and was frankly terrible (3x3 stormfiends for battleline, two of which has grinderfists... Rattlegauge Warplock, and whyrlblade threshik with a doomwheel and two doomflayers). I got destroyed by a Lumineth list focusing on Teclis, though I did make an insane amount of mistakes (deepstriking with only a part of the army, not dividing ranged attacks of my stormfiends and shooting them all on Light of Eltharion, not knowing that this model divides weapon damage by 2, rerolling movement on the Doomwheel with the Vial of the Fulminator, which caused my opponent to incorrectly move the model outside the battlefield, killing it - I later checked he couldn't have done that).
Then I tried a no-battalion list, got demolished but a Kharadron alpha strike that removed 700 points worth of the army before they had chance to move, including the only warlock with Skryre buffs (the other hero was a Grey Seer general with skitterleap). This list however beat the fourth player who brought an OBR cavalry list with Arkhan.
When Kragnos dropped and I learned of the new Hidden Weapon Teams trait I decided to give it a try, as it really sounds awesome. This is the list below and I would be grateful for any and all feedback you could provide on it. The list did some work against my lumineth opponent, but a few things went wrong and decided the outcome of the game. First of all, I buffed my 6 stormfiends and teleported them into a shooting position through a gnawhole. I wanted to skitterleap my arch-warlock or bombardier close to my warp-grinding clanrats, but the casting roll wasn't very good and the spell was unbound by a unit of sentinels. This caused the Stormfiends to not receive the warpstone spark damage buff, making his archer units survive. the 2 warpfire throwers weren't optimally placed due to how he positioned his army - they still did very good damage, just not that devastating. And I didn't get Teclis in range to try and delete him. Since his list is 3 drops, protection of Teclis also mitigated lots of damage. Still, if I got a double turn, my army would utterly decimate his once a warlock would get in range of the Stormfiends. This didn't happen, we both rolled sixes on a roll-off, and next turn all my firepower was basically decimated by spells, shooting and combat. That felt terrible. The unique spell of Teclis was especially devastating since he centered it on the spell portal and hit the entire army, all I was left with were my heroes, some clanrats (he one-shot a 39-rat unit with a horde killing spell, it rolled 16 damage on 5+, the rest ran since I failed the skitterleap and couldn't use the command ability).
How do you guys deal with this feeling when one or two rolls determine the outcome of the game, essentially rendering lots of decisions unimportant? Though I guess maybe i should have waited longer with the deepstrike and held back since I didn't have the support for the Stormfiends and clanrats, but on the other hand that would mean eating more spells from Teclis through the spell portal and taking 40 shots from sentinels buffed by power of hysh...
I prefer Izzet over Simic, 
if you know any Magic lore.
AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion
in Skaven
Posted
You can fit this in a one drop, if ratlings are hidden in clanrats they don't count as a drop.