[AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion]

On 5/30/2021 at 6:53 PM, martinwolf said:

So on the new Awakened Wyldwood warscroll it says the wood has to be more than 3" away from terrain and objectives in addition to whatever an ability or spell says, that means all spells/abilities got worse and harder to place woods with them because a lot of them were 1" previously. It's in general more likely to find a place for a single tree, but it got harder to get a 2 or classic 3 piece wood down. Don't get me started on the old plates. I have tried one game and the 3" rule for everything now really was a huge pain.

Any thoughts?

we had a short discussion a few pages back (179 I think) - basically the 3'' has always been the requirement as per GHB 2020. But the way it was phrased was quite convoluted, so most people assumed 1''. 

[AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion]

19 hours ago, Havelocke said:

A thought occurred to me while writing my post about wyldwoods a moment ago. While the general consensus is that the new Warsong Revenant is overcosted and I have to agree, I think the model, along with the new wyldwood rules, might breathe new life into the classic 'Branchwych Bomb.'

• When combined with a balewind and the spellsinger command trait, a warsong bomb is dealing mortals to every enemy unit in a 21" bubble.
   
• The warsong has three casts on the vortex, which means they can be stacking TOV every turn and spitting out their AOE, while still having a leftover cast for healing, mystic shield, or additional damage.
   
• The new wyldwood rules still block LOS, so the warsong can remain safely tucked inside a wyldwood the entire time.
   
• The Warsong spell deals twice as much damage as the old Branchwych spell used to.
   
• Compared to the branchwych, the Warsong is much more durable. Albeit for a lot more points. The build even has a free artefact slot, which could be used to increase survivability

 

You could also ditch Spellsinger to run the build in gnarlroot so that you get the chalice. I think it's better with spellsinger, though.

 

I hadn't considered that Balewind still works for it. Makes me consider trying to use Balewind & spellportal with the guy, spamming mortal wounds while staying behind your frontlines. I like the idea of teleporting to a central forest too, though - forcing lots of units into your forest if they want to quickly finish the guy.. Meaning lots of mortal wounds because the forests proc on a 4+ since he's a wizard

 

[Rule precedence]

Is there any such thing as 'rule precedence' in Age of Sigmar? Many games I know have some kind of statement that, if multiple rules seem clashing, specific rules count over general rules. I was wondering is Age Of Sigmar has these kinds of rules.

I am asking because I've noticed the GHB, Warscrolls & allegiance abilities clashing. For instance when talking about sylvaneth & wyldwood placement rules: GHB has different rules from the wyldwood warscroll which has different rules from the unit warscrolls such as TLA and Alarielle who can place wyldwoods.

If there is such a rule, that would help a lot with the ambiguity. I could image something like Warscrolls (count over) > allegiance > GHB > Core Rules.

Apart from making sense, I'd say that the AoS rules would be very problematic because otherwise we'd have no clear reason why warscrolls which, for instance, state that a creature can Run & Still shoot, or Run & still charge, can actually still do that if the core rules state that you can't. and, of course, we reasonably assume that warscrolls can do that if they state so even if it conflicts with general rules. In that sense, I can imagine warscrolls, with for instance run & charge but also sylvaneth wyldwood placement, take precedence over the more general rules. What do you guys think?

[AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion]

1 minute ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Doesn’t look like Alarielle has an after-save which is a massive negative. You can have all the heals in the world but a 3+ won’t allow you to survive a single phase against many of the big hammer units in the current meta, never mind a double while you wait for your next hero phase. You can just nuke her off and then you’re sat with an underpowered ~1200 points sitting on the table. It’s grim.

Flute guy looks like hot garbage. Of all the amazing things you could do with the song, +1/-1 bravery is so uninteresting. And 275 is easily twice the going rate for a 2-cast wizard.

Willing to change my mind but it doesn’t look good early doors. 

I'm hoping the woods flexibility is going to negate a lot of problems. Being quite a bit weaker than avarage is not going to be too much an issue if your army can pop up everywhere throughout the battlefield. The Doubleturn against you also seems to be a bit less of a problem now that you do not necessarily have to go first if you want to be able to place woods. I feel like (Or, at least hope), with the revenant and smaller woods, it might've become much easier to just pop up behind the enemy backlines. Not saying Sylvaneth is the most competitive, but they might actually fulfill a strong mobility niche with the new wood rules

[AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion]

Glad about being able to place wyldwoods..

So, considering the upcoming changes, what about lists?

I was wondering about a 2k gnarlroot list myself, with the new Allarielle & Warsong, ofcourse.

1x Alarielle 

1x Warsong, General & Chalice

1x Branchwraith  (perhaps Spiritsong Stave)

1x Drycha

---

Battleline

20x Spite-rev

20x Spite-rev

5x Tree-rev

---

Battalion: Drycha's spitegrove.

Alternatively, drop the battalion & Drycha, and swap out one team of Spite-revs for 30x Dryads & some kurnoths or the like:

1x Alarielle

1x Warsong

1x Branchwaith

--

30x dryad

10x spite

5x tree revs

6x Kurnoth Scythes(or 2x3 swords)

-

Spiteswarm hive

What are your thoughts? An alternative to Kurnoth spam? Wasting the Alarielle heal, without Kurnoths and Durthu's?

 

[AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion]

As of now, I fear it's going to be disappointing. That said, I'd like a viable fear army - and perhaps 3.0 is going to change bravery and make it better. I'm afraid we'll have lost outcasts by then, though.. considering the rumour that battalions are changing. So perhaps this is just going to be the replacement. 

Buying it for the model regardless 

[AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion]

23 hours ago, Pennydude said:

@Havelocke I stand corrected, you are right that it is an Allegiance Ability.  It's been over 15 months since I've played Sylvaneth and between then and now, I've only played one game and that was back in December with my IDK.

So it does look like our woods must be at least 3" away from other terrain and 1" away from models and objectives per GHB 2020.




WOW GEEDUB MUST HATE THIS ARMY.

I thoroughly regret asking this question.. But, thank you all for the answers! 

[AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion]

20 hours ago, Pennydude said:

General consensus has been that the allegiance ability woods is 1” from enemy territory, 3” from other terrain, and 6” from objectives and all others are 1” from everything. I’ll have to look more into the TLA woods bit. 
 

The other person is definirely wrong about the Verdant Blessing forests because that’s not an allegiance ability.

Thanks! Glad to know about the spell.. That helps a bit. I'd be interested on your perspective on the TLA (and I guess also Alarielle's spell), your views on sylvaneth in previous discussions here have been very insightful and useful for a starter like me. As of now, though, I feel like that 3'' does invalidate the use of the TLA.. of which the usefulness was already doubtful if you ask me. 

 

[AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion]

When reading about the distance of forests from other terrain features, what is the notion that forests summoned during the game follow the sylvaneth book rules when playing a matched game? (so, just 1 inch away) my opponent referred to:

Sometimes the allegiance abilities
for an army will allow it to include
1 or more terrain features, or a
warscroll will allow you to set up
1 or more terrain features once
the battle has begun. These are
set up in addition to the terrain
features that have been set up as
previously described.
In a Pitched Battle, faction terrain
must be set up more than 3" from
any other terrain features and more
than 1" from any objectives,

 

Claiming that my verdant Blessing forests and TLA forests also should follow the 3'' rule. This pretty much meant that I could only place 1 forest during the game on quite a meaningless spot because the field was already filled with the 10 other terrain pieces - leading me to concluding that basically the only tactic in even friendly games is the dreadwood Kurnoth ambush. But before pretty much needing to setup using the one thing that led me to wanting to play sylvaneth.. What is the argument for 1''? the 2019 clarification in the FAQ is apparently not cutting it because the 2020 GHB explicitly also refers to warscroll abilities, while the 2019 doesn't.

 

[Sylvaneth - Broken Realms Wishlist]

- I think sylvaneth's power should be that they force the opponent to spread out, and then attack them where they've spread too thin. I'm okay with them not winning a straight fight, and not being too good in long-ranged combat. This requires high mobility. I'd dare say that they should be able to teleport to woods within 3'' of opponents, or even combat range. This does assume that there would be a hard limit on wyldwoods. Sylvaneth should be all about that wood placement. 

- I think the goal shouldn't be having as much forests as possible on the field, except perhaps as a trait for a glade such as Harvestboon to accomodate people who have bought 7 sets. I'd be okay with laying down 2 or 3 forests at the start of the game (without too much restrictions. This would represent the fact that the sylvaneth have weakened, and are protecting what they have left. It would fit if obstacles would be replaced, or can simple be surrounded by a forest. The forest existed before the obstacles, or the forest has overgrown it) Furthermore, it would enable GW to make the forests much stronger, and balance around the fact that forests will always be present 

- I'd also like alarielle to be at a high point power-house level, I'd rather she'd be stronger and didn't have the summon. I'm also okay with her being relatively fragile to spike damage compared to other gods - her deal should be massive healing for herself and your army. If you don't manage to take her out, you're starting all over again. She does need some more protection though against ranged/mortal wounds

- Tree rev's should be more elite - more damage and perhaps 2 wounds- & cost more point. Flavorwise, I'd love if their realmroot navigation would enable them to attack opponents close to forests as if they are in melee as long as they are close to another forest, or something like teleporting after fighting. This would represent them flickering in and out of combat. It would also explain their effectives in combat, even if they remain very fragile in direct combat. 

- forests only block for the opponent, also when flying. 

- TLA has more potent magic - they are ancient forest spirits & leaders of clans. 

- Kurnoth spam shouldn't be the way to go.

- I like that dryads are conditionally strong in the sense that they are not fighters, but are fanatic in their defense of their forests.