Havelocke

Man, there's so much to say about Belthanos! His warscroll is fascinating, and very unique. His combat profile does a bit less damage than any of the other single entity beatstick options (Alarielle, Drycha, Durthu)., while costing more than any of them (except Alarielle). Obviously, though, he compensates for this with better mobility and survivability (except Alarielle again). A big reason for this is his lack of a ranged profile, which hurts his overall damage output. He's comparable to Drycha or Alarielle if only the melee profile is considered. This also affects his usage options, as he's not doing any damage at all unless he's charging in, which is not true for those other options. His abilities all serve to enhance the mobility of the army without relying on magic. This is really exciting because, in my experience, it's been something that causes the Sylvaneth to struggle against armies that can reliably deny their mobility-boosting magic. The Kurnothi War-horn is the highlight of the warscroll for me (though I question whether the hyphen is necessary). Nature Aetheric is really unique and I think quite powerful, though the timings on it will take some experimentation to fully grok. The retreat and charge ability is a nice little bonus. As a whole, I see him working into lists in two ways. While he doesn't do as much damage as Durthu or Drycha, he is much more durable than Drycha, and much more mobile than Durthu. In comparison to these units, it feels like he needs a lot less support from the rest of the army to be effective on his own, even if his damage ceiling isn't as high. I think he'll shine the most as a "build around" piece, though. He's quite expensive, so I think maximizing his abilities in an army that can also use his combat profile is going to be his best usage. For my first list with him, I'm intrigued by the notion of trying to maximize a "no magic" Sylvaneth army. I think he'd combine nicely with a Treelord Ancient that takes Warsinger, Vesperal Gem, and Verdurous Harmony. The two would form a really bulky support core for as many Spiteriders or Kurnoths as I manage to take from there.

I wonder if the Verdurous Harmony on Drycha is a mistake. It doesn't look like there's actually anything that can be targeted by it in the list. I played my first Oakenbrow game a couple weeks ago, and I was pleasantly surprised with it. I really liked having the extra teleports. Only thing that felt lacking was the damage. Outside of Durthu, I didn't really have anything that could make a dent in tanky units. I wonder if that's the thinking behind including Drycha?

Yup. I totally missed that footnote. Ah well.

Regiments of Renown Let Your Warhammer Age Of Sigmar Army Hire Mercenaries With Powerful Abilities New regiments of renown just announced, including a Sylvaneth regiment consisting of an Arch-Revenant and a unit of Gossamids. "Finally, the half-mad Sylvaneth of Elthwin’s Thorns made a name for themselves seeking a cure for their curse amongst the armies of ORDER, darting around the battlefield on zephyrwing spites and unleashing deadly salvos with unnatural insight." Thoughts or predictions for the new regiment? The two units in the battalion don't really mesh well. I kinda hope the rules will give them some synergy and buff the gossamids, but I suspect that the rules might be more tailored for cross-faction inclusion, and they might just get a watered down teleport or something.

One thing I think really helps a Dreadwood list is a reinforced unit of Spiterider Lancers. Their strike-first effect allows you to get off both strike-and-fades without getting hit back on the turn you activate your glade ability. I'd also make sure you get some Tree Revenants into your list. They're always useful. Spiteswarm Hive is also an auto-include for me. I put the popular Spellsinger/Tome/Warsong into my list as my general, and I liked how it worked with the rest of the army. If you did all that, it'd put you at 1950. Finally, I'd consider blocks of 15 for your Spite Revenants. They'll very rarely all get to attack, but I think it's worth it for the redundant wounds, and you'd rarely be wanting to charge with all three units, anyways.

That's the general consensus on how it works, yeah. I alluded to it in a post on the previous page, but I'm also quite hype for this ability. I think it has the potential to turn Sylvaneth into a defensive powerhouse. I think some people are sleeping on it because of how much more access there is to +1 save in this edition in general. People see it and go okay, it does the same thing as All-Out Defense of Finest hour. Just another way to get +1 save. But it's SO efficient. With minimal set-up, you can give +1 save to your entire army... for two turns... stackable with AOD... for one CP. That's just nuts. And the only thing you need to do to set it up is take a unit that we usually want to be taking anyways.

It... kinda doesn't settle it, though. Not for me, at least. I never suggested that the GHB wasn't a part of the core rules, nor that the warscroll rules don't take precedent when they come into conflict with the core rules. The point I'm debating is whether or not a contradiction exists when examining these two rules at all, which is a necessary prerequisite for a core rule to be invalidated. That said, I agree with you that the discussion isn't really moving forward though, and I think that both of us are re-stating our points in different ways. I probably won't be writing another essay on the subject, as it's cluttering up the thread at this point.

It totally can. In general, I actually prefer Gnarlroot for the better artifact and warlord trait. Winterleaf is always going to be statistically better, as it's adding a flat 16.6% hits while Gnarlroot is usually adding around 11%, so the question is whether or not those 5% hits are worth the tradeoff. In @Domize list, I just think he's kinda all-in on an alpha strike with the Kurnoths, and so the extra 5% wins out. Especially because he's probably looking to teleport the Kurnoths, which might cause them to lose their Gnarlroot buff if they get too far from a Wizard. This is a solid line of thinking. Giving the warsong the chalice, so that he is not as reliant on throne of vine buffs, makes him a lot more flexible, and is more useful in most situations. Giving the spiritsong stave to the Warsong and the chalice to the Branchwraith might be trying to do too much, and ultimately hurt the list. I want to try it at least once, though. Me too! I'll need to dig into this a bit, but I appreciate you taking the time.

I've been thinking about this, as well. I think you never want more than one throne on the Branchwraith, either way. One solution that I've considered is swapping the artifacts, giving the Spiritsong stave to the Warsong and the chalice to the Branchwraith. The chalice is more or less analogous to a single throne, giving the Branchwraith about a 90% chance to cast before unbinding. It also frees up her lore spell slot for Regrowth or Verdurous Harmony, should you need it. Meanwhile, the Warsong appreciates the stave, as it lets him cast throne, spellportal, and unleash in a single turn. The main drawback I see to this is that it makes the Warsong less reliable out of the gate, as his early spells don't receive the boost from the chalice, making them easier to unbind. I think it's very possible that this is the solution, and running a Branchwraith without any enhancements will become the new norm in Warsong lists. The list you wrote devotes a third of your points to your Scythe Hunters, so I think the rest of your list should look to support your gameplan. Kurnoths in their face. To that end, I think Winterleaf is the right call. If you go with Gnarlroot, you're giving up some melee output for magical power, essentially. I think that would be fine if you had more payoff, but your casters are here to support your Kurnoths, not the other way around. I'd stick with the Ancient over Drycha for the same reason. His command ability will give the Kurnoths a defensive buff anywhere on the board, so he's going to be very useful for getting additional rounds of combat out of that unit. I'm going to suggest two additional changes to the list, along the same lines. The first is that you go with the Spiritsong Stave on the Branchwraith, as that will maximize her chances of getting your spiteswarm hive out on turn one by allowing her to cast throne of vines first. The second is making the Arch Revenant your general, as this will expand the range of his buff aura, making it easier to get his re-rolls onto the Kurnoths.

That's the correct way to play their ability. The core rules FAQ clarified that you can't use 'instead of normal move' abilities when you're locked in combat, but the Sylvaneth FAQ changed the Tree Revenant warscroll to include an 'or retreating' option as well.

I would take a different artifact on the Treelord Ancient. If you're looking for survivability, the amulet of destiny from the core ruledook, which gives you a 5+ ward save, will give you a better return. Alternatively, you could run an artifact to boost your magic. Spiritsong Stave on the Branchwraith is a popular choice, and will let you get your Spiteswarm Hive out on turn one more reliably. Vesperal Gem, for guaranteed healing from the Ancient, could also be strong. Finally, I would consider dropping your Dryads for more Tree Revenants. They aren't as tanky as they used to be in second, especially in blocks of ten, and you've got the Branchwraith to add bodies to the board.

In addition to the points you mentioned above, I think that they benefit indirectly from the change to the wyldwood warscroll, because the easier it is to get trees down on the board, the more valuable their additional teleport becomes. I think the ability to teleport multiple threats in one turn is a big strength of our army, and for that reason I definitely plan to continue experimenting with Treelords in my lists, at least for my first few games of this edition.

There's also a realm rule on page 12, called Predators and Prey, which gives a VP once per turn if you kill an opponent's monster.

@Walkirriox - It's in the GHB. I'll provide the page number and the name of the ability when I get home later. Here's hoping I've remembered the ability correctly, and it's not limited to non-heroes or something. Edit: Okay. I found the rules online. It's on page 12, called Feral Roar. Important to note that it's activated in the combat phase, which means it can potentially get blocked by a monstrous rampage.

I think that the command ability you mentioned is absolutely huge. I wrote Durthu off, initially, and have since come around to thinking he's a strong option, largely because of this command ability. I've tended to shy away from Durthu in my lists, despite his high damage ceiling, because of his unreliability. There are just too many ways to bracket him or otherwise shut him down. Between needing the woods buff, needing to be unbracketed, and the inherent swinginess of a lower number of high damage attacks, it just felt like you needed the stars to align in order for his potential to be realized. Now, though, he's got a lot of support that can help him reach that ideal situation. You mentioned tome in gnarlroot, which is probably the first way I'd try him. I agree with @Kaylethia that the fly spell is probably better than flaming weapon, as it gives him another tool to use if your opponent screen out the charge he wants to make. It's also worth mentioning that, if he gets caught out of position, tome lets him summon his own trees to buff himself. There's a lot of other things you could try. Winterleaf plus amulet might have potential. In the end, I think that having that command ability to return him to the top bracket is the big gift that gives Durthu a bit of the reliability he's always lacked.