pnkdth
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Posts posted by pnkdth
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41 minutes ago, Malakithe said:
A lot of the increases across the board dont make sense. Some factions got decimated while other are workable. Some might even be ok/good.
I dont know what to do about my poor Fyreslayers while KO is actually in a decent position. All of Chaos got hammered though. Kinda scratching my head with my Mawtribes now but I think I can make a workable Underguts list.
The overall loss of battalions plus the points hikes have me lost overall with list building as there is no theme or direction to go.
We're essentially in a position where we are going to have to find "the new normal." At first list-building is going to feel off but I am fairly certain it will soon be business as usual. Especially as more realise it isn't just their faction who's struggling to find their new identity or style.
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19 minutes ago, MothmanDraws said:
lord of pain 155
dexcessa 280
sigvald 265
shardspeaker 150blissbarbs 180
painbringers 160
painbringers 160slickblades 230
slickblades 230
dread pageant 130
(1940)Armies are so painfully hard to build now, even with old rules I struggled to put them together, before hand this list would probably do fine as I could squeeze something cool in. I cant even afford any of the slaanesh endless spells because they start waay to high of a cost.
With the added point cost everyone is going to find themselves landing short. Characters has gone up by a fair amount for everyone, for examples, and monsters too (or both!). For this list you just got to decide on what is the most important.
Do you need an endless spell for this list to work? If so, what other unit is redundant? Currently, you got both Dex and Sigvald, 2 x painbringers and 2 x Slickblades. Is the Dark Pagent needed for you to do your thing? And so on.
Taking a unit of fiends over a slickblade unit would put you in a position to afford Visage or the mirror.
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Just now, Enoby said:
I'm thinking
LoP 155 (Glory Hod, Rod of Misrule)
Dex 280
Sigvald 265
Syll'Esske 210
5 Painbringers 160
5 Painbringers 160
5 Painbringers 160
5 Painbringers 160
5 Painbringers 160
10 Twinsouls 270
Some Painbringers could be swapped for some Slickblades, but this is kind of meant to be a grindy army.
Would consider dropping Sigvald and Syll'Esske for Glutos.
For that kind of list I think a unit of Blissbarbs + hellstriders (or seekers) be great just to put the pressure on. They land on nearly same cost as two painbringer units. You'll still got 3 painbringer + 1 twinsoul units with significant close combat threat with Dex, Sigvald, Syll and even the LoP if he really has to get in there.
Getting some early objective steals/screen out enemy beatsticks and DP could prove valuable in the long run.
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2 hours ago, Feorag said:
I have updated as I missed seekers and mispointed syl.
First off, big thanks for the compilation.
Price hikes with monstrous characters and endless spells as expected.
Blissbarbs love the Unleash Hell ability.
Slickblades got better due to smaller board/speed.
Hellstriders/Seekers are really interesting as battleline now.
As mentioned, DP and summoning just got better since, 1) board is smaller, 2) armies deployed are smaller (making our summons more significant), 3) more MSU across most armies.
Going forward, I think I'm going to continue enjoying twinsouls/painbraingers, sprinkle in some hellstriders, fiends with Syll and Siggie. Might even field that Infernal Rapturess too since that makes casting scarier + adds more DP. Having predominately useless battalions it is nice to see confirmation of them being gone.
TL;DR: I'm not feeling the doom or the gloom just yet since there's plenty of play left.
@Enoby I wouldn't send anything yet. They'll just discard it since there is not yet context to all the rules changes and how other armies are being affected (because everyone is being affected). For now I'm going to look at what new plays we got and burn the past. No time like the present, after all!
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54 minutes ago, Mcthew said:
Quick question: how many players are now holding off buying AoS 3.0 until the General's Handbook Points are released/leaked? Who is hoping for the best/expecting the worst?
I'm holding off and letting the rules sink in. 20+ years in the hobby has taught me to never ever listen to the initial outrage or hype. It is just something that happens at every edition change since every time you change something ⏤ or anything, anywhere ⏤ you will annoy some someone.
More importantly, before I see the points changes it is pointless to speculate since I don't see the point(s).
It is going to shake things up though and I'm all for it.
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47 minutes ago, Gristlegut said:
Here is the other list I was considering, nit-picking, but I like having more demon battlelines on the board. Especially with the two magic heavy armies I am facing. I also get an extra CP for DP or VLC where needed. How does the Bilepiper help with mobility?
second choice list:
Be'Lakor, the Dark Master (380) - General
Verminlord Corruptor (280) - Artefact: Fourfold Blade
Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (150)
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210) - Sword
UNITS
20 x Plaguebearers (220)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (280)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Extra Command Point (50)
2000/2000
My thought is that it will be tough to get the vortex off against a Teclis or Arch Recheant with +2 to casting. again, I will go nurgle against LRL and Khorne against FEC. Got to slow down those terrorgheists.
I was referring to controlling movement with anti-pile in moves. Badly phrased and I blame the heat.
Yeah, you are probably right and I hate why. I get why LRL should be awesome with magic but it is just so disheartening to see people drop an entire aspect of the game because of the designer of LRL thought it was awesome to design an army based on undermining the experience and the game for the opponent.
The second list also have the benefit of preventing teleports/redeploys better with more bodies.
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42 minutes ago, Gristlegut said:
Looking for a non Kairos list. Looking for comments:
Allegiance: Legion of the First Prince
LEADERS
Be'Lakor, the Dark Master (380) -General
Verminlord Corruptor (280) - Artefact: Fourfold Blade
Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (150)
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210) - Sword
UNITS
10 x Plaguebearers (110)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (280)
3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Warp Lightning Vortex (80)
TOTAL: 2000/2000 WOUNDS: 104
Got two games coming. One with Teclis led LRL where the DP will go Nurgle. The other is FEC feast day where DP will go Khorne.
Looks solid.
I really like the Bilepiper as it really adds both punch and mobility.
Only thing I might change is to turn two PBs units into a block of 20. Better target for Master's Command and can challenge more for objectives with more presence.
But yeah, it looks good. Khorne DP is life, VLC hurts a lot, and you got good magic and shooting. Let us know how it turns out!
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With the changes to Arcane Bolt, a VL Corruptor (with fourfold blade) becomes even more of a mortal wound bomb. Tasty!
Add in all the new fun stuff and you got a real beast on your hands.
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8 minutes ago, TimeToWaste85 said:
I’m cool with our point costs if everyone
This tells me you can move before magic. Woohoo!!!
It could also just be it is a spell you can choose to activate in the hero phase or subsequent phases. Very interesting choice for wizards who also want to be in combat. It would be very bad for buffs and such spells if they take effect AFTER you need them (if the hero phase comes later).
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On 6/9/2021 at 10:18 PM, Sorrow said:
I think this is new, I do not see it here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/broken-realms/
Anyway, Sigvald and Glutos went against each other, that is why no Hedonites reached the city.
Story: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/GoOdPej7qcXOKbTT.pdf
Good catch! Neat, they actually expanded upon the previous confrontation between the two. This outcome is also incredibly in character since Sigvald was pretty much about to cut Glutus' head off had he not been interrupted.
Edit: It also seems reinforcement points are only relevant for Path to Glory.Edit2: I'm giving up on what is what on the reveals till I get the full picture.
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10 hours ago, Mcthew said:
It so is! Yet, therein lies the problem with AoS. The new rules, concentrating on smaller units, god units, monsters, smaller board size etc (if the leaks are all true, which they tend to be), points AoS towards a skirmish game, which we already have in Warcry.
It's all very odd, and disjointed. What are GW trying to achieve here?
Removing conga-lines stretching across the board/objectives, making units operate like units not a line-dancing squad and with slightly smaller board put units closer to each other (which makes sense with the changes to coherency since bigger units will be closer together).
With that in mind, 1) smaller table, 2) more accessible, 3) similar model count, 4) more options for monster mash and with that different types of army lists. In other words, it is a stretch and a half to call 3.0 a skirmish game on the scale of Warcry based on these changes.
But if there's one thing that's consistently true when an edition is about to change is wild speculation and hyperbole. The vast majority will settle in, start enjoying the new nuances of a fresh edition, and look back at older editions with a mix of nostalgia and indifference.
Personally, I'm looking forward to a new meta and all that comes with it.
10 hours ago, Greybeard86 said:Some people just embrace it, I wonder how much it comes down to most warhammer players not having experience with other game systems.
For me it is about so much more than a game system. It is the history, expanding lore, scale and width of armies and the community as a whole. I'll take a decent game with lots of support over a niche game I only get to pull out every once in awhile.
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29 minutes ago, Enoby said:
- Slain models: A minor change that has a large impact on some armies: slain models are now not removed until all wounds caused to its unit have been allocated and all attacks that inflicted damage on the unit have been resolved. I don't think this really matters for us, unless I'm misunderstanding
Only thing I can think of is OBR with their Harvester recycling a ridiculous amount of models but mostly a way to clean up any overlapping abilities/attacks.
In general, looks pretty good for us (or in general). Lurid Haze, as you mentioned, has a lot of play if these are correct. Though with a smaller board I also think Godseekers are going to add a lot of consistency across the, well, board.
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16 minutes ago, Cambyses said:
Long time Slaanesh player (since the first GHB) but first time poster here - hello to the wider Hedonites community.
Really comprehensive post & I do agree on most accounts, however I do feel the need to discuss this last point a bit. Having a difficult or high skill floor faction is fine, and in fact should be expected from something like Slaanesh, but the faction should also have a high skill ceiling payoff to match, which I don't think is quite there when compared to other factions with similar levels of skill expression. I have a buddy who plays Blades of Khorne who is probably the best player in our groups has expressed similar frustrations before, where he would have to work much harder and be more meticulous with positional plays just to get the same pay-off as a easier or better faction, and while I don't think Hedonites are nearly as bad as BoK, I do get somewhat similar vibes.
I would have liked something similar to Tzeentch's agendas (so we can show off for Slaanesh) or Necron protocols (as in we call what our 'pleasure' is for each turn). Just to give another layer of rewards for completing great plays and add to the good part of the book, i.e. how it lets us create more synergy through player moves as opposed to just being a mechanical thing you can exploit in list-building.
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On 5/31/2021 at 10:18 PM, Frowny said:
One of my frustrations is how obvious some of the balance stuff is. For example, the new sylbaneth revenant is a good warscroll but it is horrifically overcoated. 275 points for just 2 casts is an absolutely horrible deal.
Some comparisons:
belladonna Volga, released recently, has +1 save, +2 wounds, +2mv, +2 bravery, same damage output, a second unbind and a command ability. And she is 75 points LESS.
A skaven grey seer is 140 pts. 2 casts and unbinds, casts on a 3d6. Less sturdy, sure, but you can get 2 of them for the same price, easily equalizing the durability difference. And stand next to a warp hole for even better casting.
Or to a slaan, who has quite similar base stats but is a 3cast/3 unbind wizard, also has a useful command ability, and generates 2 CPS on a 4+. And costs 15 pts LESS.
Or to a contorted epitome. 2c/2d, a useful fights last aura, and 65 pts less.
All of the above also have something equal to or similar to the +1 to cast, and all just blow this out of the water. Even within the battletome itself you could get 3 branchwriaths instead, for 3 casts and unbinds.
it's true I picked some strong playable options as my comparison point, and things need to be balanced within a battletome. But at the same time, sylvaneth are clearly a weak battletome already and all of these comparisons are just so far ahead of her it's not even close. At 275 she is a hard pass in any serious list in an already weak book.
What's frustrating is that I didn't even have to try very hard for figure out this was hopelessly overcosted. I'd have hoped better from a multimillion dollar company tasked solely with making and designing a game.
I realise Sylvaneth is in a rough spot but taking a more positive look at the revenant it also has a 4+ shrug (making more tanky than most other units of a similar role), solid melee profile (3" reach means you can do some tricky stuff), potential MW bomb (you just gotta be within 9" not wholly within which can cover quite a lot of enemy units), and a decent aura to disrupt the opponent and keep you from failing battleshock. M8" and fly makes it nimble too.
Might not be the best thing ever but I think it has some play, even so.
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1 hour ago, Enoby said:
The seventh and final point is impossible to argue against (unless the rules team is secretly genestealers) and I would wager is probably the cause of most truly bad warscrolls. I guess my point is that some of these human errors are spotted within minutes, and I have no clue how the rule's team misses it or why they let it slide.
My guess is deadlines and a last minute nerf which goes too far. The reason it stays is because there's already a miniature for it. They rather release a bad warscroll with an already finished model and fix the rules later than removing it from the battletome. I think this swings both ways, creating overly powerful units or bad units.
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On 6/2/2021 at 9:52 AM, CarkFish said:
Hi chaps .... I've been constantly changing my mind about which faction to play going into third.... I adore the Slaanesh vibe.... but.. I've heard some pretty awful things said about the ruleset.... How bad is it really?
I think it is one of the better designed battletomes (just can do with a slight reduction in unit cost and... the poor Slaangors) and its tabletop performance is strong.
A common statement is "the tome lacks synergy" but on in its the most base sense, e.g. there is little in the ways of X unit boosts Y unit or allegiances/sub-factions which focus on particular units. This is in my opinion a GOOD thing since it means at no point will you be forced into using a particular unit in a particular sub-faction. You are able to build your own synergies.
This is further enhanced by the abilities and auras in the battletome. Very few of them are conditional and at most they divide between mortal/daemon units but most of the time it is friendly model. This is also due to many abilities are actually debuffs, e.g. friendly models attacking X unit get re-rolls of 1 or enemy unit get a -1 to whatever.
What this means for the army is that there is synergy, it simply doesn't rest squarely on abusing mechanics in the list-building phase. Sure, we can do it and lean heavily into Seeker Cavalcade and it is probably our most "meta-chasing"-option for tournaments BUT most factions has this issue of one (maybe two) builds which are "the best." The synergy in HoS is something we layer ourselves, we decide which units support each other, and we decide on what unit to summon to best impact the battlefield. So if we take tactical versus strategic, then HoS is a very tactical army. We can, of course, make a clear battleplan and eventually know when and what to summon, I'm just saying it is a rewarding experience which can be as fluid as you like.
As mentioned, Lurid Haze is very popular (and for good reason, great mobility and CA). The best part about starting out is that you can change sub-faction as you please. None of your units will suddenly being unusable so you'll never get that horrible feeling "oh, I wish I was..." just because you happened to like the wrong unit in the wrong sub-faction. Personally, I'm enjoying Godseekers because of how many times that +1 charge has saved me and it helps to get footsloggers into combat quicker... Buuut, again, I can just decide on something else and play that for a session.
Oh, never let getting depravity take priority unless you're going for a play which nets you the objective. Also, don't tunnel vision on summoning a keeper, in many cases being able to plonk down 20-30 daemonettes can be a game-winning move. For some armies, one of the daemonic characters might turn the tide, and so on. Summoning is fantastic tactical asset (though limited by models you have :P).
Hope you have fun and welcome to the most fun side of chaos damnation!
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Looks like a potentially really cool kitbash option for either a LoP or Shardspeaker depending on the way you take it.
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Is it just me or did they linger a really long time on the Khorne symbol in the beginning? Could it be... Hm, hm, hmmm.
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We're never going to be the heroes. The AoS team isn't afraid to kill off the baddies (or humble them with a series of defeats). Death suffer from this as well cause, well, they have to lose otherwise there is nothing left to fight over or a world to "live" in. Their win would be extremely final. Which is why I think SBGL became a thing since they now they have multiple antagonists with different self-interests instead of an increasingly more powerful god of death.
Note, I haven't actually read Kragnos yet so I'm just speaking general. However, the good thing with immortality is you can keep on keeping on.
As for the rules, I think they're interesting in different ways. It is true that Synessa only gets a single cast with no bonuses but on the flip side, the toolbox it brings is huge. I really dig its shooting attack since is very reliable for MWs and big threat range 12" + 18". With Pavane it also adds to the ability to snipe fast characters. The ability to throw out command abilities anywhere could be game-changing. Not having to be right in the face of the enemy also means it acts as another summoning point (it is also a good DP generator).
Dexcessa is a character who really can snowball into a combat monster. Plus, also got utility + extra mobility options.
I'm not blown away by them but I can see potential. Both having an innate -1 to hit takes the edge off many shooting attacks too. Reasonable for their cost but I would have liked something like Synessa either being a two cast or its spell cannot be unbound/is auto-cast. Dexcessa got more flavour and reflects an increasingly violent whirlwind really well whereas Synessa is missing an edge in its casting ability (great utility piece though).
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35 minutes ago, Sorrow said:
They are called Children of Slaanesh by Games Workshop, therefore people are correct in their expectations that children of Slaanesh walk the Realms. As Children of Slaanesh, they ought to be far more powerful than regular KoS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEyEVACRJZQ
I'm basing my claim on official quotes and previews (articles I've posted recently in this thread). They are Slaanesh's children but it doesn't change how they were spawned, i.e. from the essence which escaped its prison. It is but a fraction of Slaanesh's true power and given the nature of the prison it also makes sense why they're split up and fragmented.
Had they been delivered under better circumstances it is likely they would have been far more terrifying. Though who are we as mere mortals to try and understand the will of the gods?
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There seem to be a disconnect between what the twins are and the expectations of what people wanted/believed them to be. They are not the spawn of a fully powered and unleashed Slaanesh but the result of a portion of Slaanesh's power seeping through the cracks of its prison. Not saying you have to love it, just manage expectations. Two god-tier units which immediately overshadows Keepers would not have been ideal either (as I suspect people would have been furious claiming GW making the battletome obsolete and forcing us to pay for new models/expansions to compete, like typical GW amirite?).
Seeing as HoS got a lot of new units recently and a new battletome I didn't even expect the twins to be a thing at all. Instead, we get two new models who can realistically fit into the same army or complement an army with their respective abilities and areas of focus.
TL;DR: Imma wait for the rules and see what's what.
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On 5/26/2021 at 10:09 PM, Popisdead said:
I like the tie-in narrative for Slaanesh vs haughty aelves. nice catch. did you read the novel?
No, haven't read it myself. I just wanted to give a heads up and think it is cool Hedonites and Slaanesh are getting frequent mentions in BR:Kragnos and for the story ahead.
Edit: This bit is also neat,
"Excelsis had already been weakened, undermined by the perfidious skaven and cults of Slaaneshi worshippers before the armies of Destruction arrived."
Since I like it that we're being portrayed not just as chaos warbands but also the slow corrupting influence of Slaanesh. Who knows, maybe we might even accidentally end up fighting against Destruction. Not because of caring about the city as is but the city as it should be, i.e. a glorious city of pleasure and pain.
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More Slaanesh lore!
"Cerith Anlethir is a Lumineth scholar of magic, yet he possesses no innate magical ability himself. Mocked by his peers for his lack of power, he is approached by Teclis for a special mission to unweave a potent living spell called the Winnowing, which is being controlled by a Shardspeaker of Slaanesh. This spell feeds off mages’ power, so Cerith’s mundane nature is a help rather than a hindrance. Can this scholar’s source of shame turn into an advantage to save the Realm of Light?"
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I enjoy the shake up each edition brings, so I'm looking forward to it. It will have its ups and downs but it isn't like the current edition is without its flaws.
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AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion
in Hedonites of Slaanesh
Posted
Everyone has been increased in points.
Board is smaller.
Speed is more dangerous.
MSU is going to be more common.
Summoned units have more value.
Blissbarb Archers are going to love the new Unleash Hell.
As expected, we saw increases on characters/monsters/endless spells across the board.
I think it is quite presumptuous to assume my positive nature is "forced." I'm solutions-oriented by nature and do not dwell much on the past. Things may not be as we expected, i.e. we made a metric ton of speculation on the 3rd edition and we most definitely got blindsided and set up false expectations because of it.
I respect your decision to quit the hobby but I won't stand for being called disingenuous or toxic for expressing what I feel.