LeonBox
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Posts posted by LeonBox
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5 hours ago, pnkdth said:
Ask the TO/judges to keep an eye out. Players who cross the line need to quickly learn that stuff is not acceptable or they'll go on to ruining several player's day (and future events).
Funnily enough, he went 3-0 and got best Chaos player. I have to wonder how many times he pulled fast ones on some of his opponents, though, as I did not find him a skilled player.
I myself went 1-1-1. The time allotted per game was far too short -- we had 2 hours and 20 minutes to finish a full 2k game. I didn't get further than round 3 in any given game.
Irongut/Bull-heavy list with 2 tyrants and some other foot character: Major Victory. We only played 2 full rounds, but my debuffs (and the Masque sneaking into a unit of 20 Gnoblars for early DP generation) meant he really struggled with this matchup.
Teclis/Sentinel LRL: Draw. We only finished 2 rounds (his first hero phase took up about 20% of the match) but I wiped both units of Sentinels and put 8 wounds on Teclis, who walked right into the Crown of Dark Secrets debuff. Had we gone to round 3, I think I'd have tabled him. Also the Masque tanked Sentinel and Teclis shooting for the whole first turn, and it took him 2 turns to remove her, meaning she more than earnt her points back wasting a lot of shooting units' time.
Droth-only Fyreslayers list: Major Loss. Just so many Droths reflecting mortals back on everything, and not enough shooting to deal with them. Also I was tired by this point and made a lot of stupid decisions (failed a battle tactic and didn't get any objectives at all turn 1), and the battle plan played too well into his strengths (only 3 objectives that he could park 2-3 Droths on; my low model count made it extremely hard to take them off them). Highlight was Glutos tanking 3 Droths for almost a whole double turn from them.
The Lord of Pain survived every battle, but I was too cautious with him sometimes (he didn't buff at all in the Ogor matchup). Glutos was actually pretty rubbish the first two battles, but almost made it for it by one-shotting a Droth and putting another on 14 wounds.
MvPs was Slickblades, who were champion EKs. Coupled with the Barbseekers, their rend is killer. Also the Twinsouls were great for dropping attacks and tanking LRL wardens. Our debuffs really hurt LRL, actually making them quite a decent matchup for us.
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11 minutes ago, Enoby said:
Thanks for the write up @LeonBox!
I had a game against Gargants - no pictures as there were a lot of proxies and blank bases so not the easiest to follow with a visual aid!
My list was:
- Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh
- Army Type: Godseekers
- Grand Strategy: Glutton for Depravity
LEADERS
Lord of Pain (135)*
Keeper of Secrets (400)*
- General
- Command Traits: Master of Magic
- Ritual Knife
- Artefacts of Power: Girdle of the Realm-racer
- Spells: Progeny of Damnation
Shalaxi Helbane (420)**
- Living Whip
- Spells: Paths of the Dark Prince
BATTLELINE
Blissbarb Archers (150)*
Seekers (140)*
Seekers (140)**
OTHER
Fiends (200)*
Fiends (200)*
Slickblade Seekers (200)**
TERRAIN
1 x Fane of Slaanesh (0)
CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 1985/2000
My aim was to test out Shalaxi, the Fiends, and the KoS without the Aegis, so I won't go through the game step by step and instead will just comment on them. I'll also comment on Godseekers.
Shalaxi
With a prime target in their sights, Shalaxi should have been right at home killing gargants, and in many ways they did a good job! Armed with a while rather than the Aegis (wanting to test it out), they did 1 damage in shooting and failed to reduce attacks by one. They did however do 17 damage in combat vs the Gargant, which certainly helped depravity generation. Unfortunately I didn't realise that gargants had an ability to do 4d6 mortal wounds, which quickly squashed Shalaxi flat.
Overall, their damage (with their spell) seemed very good against heroes, but I wouldn't take them without the Aegis again. Even with their high save vs heroes, that mortal wound and bad luck protection is just too important to miss out on, especially as the Whip doesn't always work. With the Aegis, they may well have lived to fight another day.
The ritual knife Keeper
I was a bit more worried about the KoS, though the Girdle should theoretically protect them a little in my turn (when it comes to choosing safe combats). The KoS did good damage, killing a unit of small gargants (and doing 6 mortal wounds with the ritual knife, and another 3 later), but again I just don't see any argument convincing enough to take the knife over the shield. The amount of damage the KoS took was unsustainable, no matter the damage it did in return.
The Girdle was, as expected, fantastic and I would definitely consider it again combined with the Aegis. While I can definitely see the KoS being swingy, I did pretty well with them so no complaints here!
Fiends
In a gargant game, fiends are bound to shins, and my two units did do some decent work, though perhaps not quite as much as I'd have wanted! Their big bonus was actually their -1 to hit and wound, which sometimes had the gargants doing no damage at all.
I'd be fully up for taking another unit of 3 for just this sort of match up.
Godseekers
While not the ideal army to use Godseekers in, it did get me out of being first turn charged so that's a bonus! Other than that, I tended to be in combat with all units after turn 2, so I couldn't use it. The Girdle was great though, so I'd be up for using it again.
Interesting, it's nice to see Keepers not with Aegises getting tried out. I'm really eager to try Godseekers myself too; their spells are fantastic and well worth it alone.
My Shalaxi game was also against Gargants, and they also got smushed (and I rolled double 1s for their spear in their one round of combat). It would, on the surface of things, appear to be the perfect match for them, but Gargants have a lot of anti-monster tech so it can also be pretty rough for them.
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Sorry you had such a frustrating opponent @LeonBox. I know it can be hard not to get salty when dice rolls go against you badly, but I still always try laugh about my bad luck rather than make the game miserable for my opponent.
He was quite stressful to play against simply because I was dreading him rolling 1s/failing charges etc. Also it quite annoyed me that he decided to concede halfway through a battle round, rather than letting me play my turn, which is just bad sportsmanship.
The writing was on the wall quite early when he declared (despite having not played against Hedonites yet) that our book was broken and DP generation was too easy. He continued to harp on about this throughout the entire battle, as each one of my buffs came online.Other "this is it, I'm sick of this" almost rage-quitting moments:
- Rolling a 4 on a Daemon Prince charge
- Rolling a 1 on a run roll to fail to get onto an objective
- Rolling 3s on mortal wounds from refused temptation dice
- Failing a save roll on his knights from Gluto's unleash hell to take 6 wounds
- Anytime he rolled a 5 or 6 to give me depravity points
He also:
- Griped about most of his knights not getting to attack when the LoH taunted them, and claimed that their wasted attacks would get to go into other units (uh no)
- Illegally charged his Khorne daemon into a space he wouldn't fit and had his base overlapping with his knights
- Got super salty about me pinning his knights with two different units on either side after I pointed out that he couldn't pile away from either unit (which was the point).He's actually at the mini-tourney tomorrow, so I'm really hoping I don't get paired with him. Easily the worst opponent I've had since I moved here.
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Just finished my last pre-tourney match against Belakor Slaves. He had a huge block of Slaanesh knights, 10 warriors with the usual Nurgle/Banner tankiness, Belakor, a Nurgle Daemon Prince, a Soulgrinder (never even seen one before) and some little Warcry units (Untamed Beasts and Raptoryx something or other). He also had a foot Clord, some Khorne daemon thing that healed a wound for every model it killed, and a caster. He was in the Cabal thingy that lets you cast on 3D6.
My opponent was the saltiest man of all time, and took every failed dice roll as a personal slight. He also took offence at the fact that I rolled my own temptation die DP generation without asking him as a "courtesy", which OK? This just meant he was saltier when he gave me a bunch of DPs off accepted temptation dice.
My list wasn't super optimized -- I had too many heroes -- but I just finished the Lord of Hubris and really wanted to field him. I had:
LoH
LoP (general, Crown of Dark Secrets, Strength of Godhood)
Glutos
Epitome
Masque
11 Blissbarbs
5 Painbringers
5 Twinsouls
5 Slickblades
5 Barbseekers
He had way fewer drops, I plopped the Masque in front of his huge unit of knights because he screened his foot heroes out. He took first turn and the Masque died at the hands of the warriors/Clord/Khorne daemon. I didn't care because she held up like 60% of his army.
In my turn, I pinged the Soulgrinder (off alone on his flank) for a few wounds with the Barbseekers and charged the Slicks in. I had chosen the Grand Feast battle tactic, which mean the Slicks needed to do 12 damage to a saveless Soulgrinder with no ward. They did 11.
I won priority but gave him the turn. His knights had got all snarled up and charged my Painbringers in the middle, but I was already at -2 there (global debuff plus Glutos) and couldn't get many in. He killed like 2 Painbringers nonetheless, and I killed one back maybe.
Elsewhere he failed a charge onto my Soulgrinder-engaged Slicks and nearly rage-quit (not for the last time). He also failed a charge with his warriors onto my engaged Painbringers.
In my turn 2 he popped Belakor's Dark Master onto Glutos. Glutos failed every roll to do anything that turn, but he was putting in work with his -1 so I didn't mind. (At this point my opponent also tried to claim Dark Master shut off Glutos' -1 to hit aura, which nope.)
My Twinsouls and Lord of Hubris charged his knight block in the middle, and my Slicks charged his Daemon Prince in his central backfield to try to kill him for Gaining Momentum. The Daemon Prince, weakened by Blissbarb and Barbseeker shooting and with his save largely neutered, died pretty quickly.
In the middle, my Lord of Hubris did his best "are you not entertained?" impression at the Chaos Knights, who, with -1 attack from Twinsouls and not being able to fully pile in, did only 2 wounds to him. Painbringer, Twinsoul and LoH attacks back (all with the LoP buff, and now with mortals on 6s) reduce them to 7 left.
He won priority and opted to take the turn despite the fact that he would have messed Glutos up by forcing another Dark Master turn on him. He made a bunch of charges and bounced off my Lord of Hubris (who was still tanking his knights) with his Khorne daemon dude. Belakor and 7-8 warriors killed one Barbseeker, suddenly very tanky behind their 5++. My Slicks put 5 wounds on his chaos lord. He failed his tactic to wipe a unit out (praise be to the Lord of Hubris again, keeping wounds off my 2 remaining Painbringers) and at this point it was saltiness overload; he quit before I got to take my turn 3.
Still extremely impressed with the book 3 games in, and after my mini-tourney on Saturday I'm gonna start mixing it up and moving away from Pretenders with a LoP general. I'm still finding DP generation insane (I generated 46 tonight in 2.5 turns) and can honestly see there being some major changes to our DP thresholds for buffs and summoning going forward. Also the LoP is genuinely too strong, and I agree with whoever said upthread that we can expect a nerf to his ability to that it only affects melee -- or even that he can only pick one unit to affect with it. Even just affecting Glutos with it is crazy powerful.
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6 hours ago, Enoby said:
Current Sylvaneth game is going well
My list is:
- Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh
- Army Type: Invaders
LEADERS
Keeper of Secrets (400)
- General
- Command Traits: Best of the Best
- Shining Aegis
- Artefacts of Power: Icon of Infinite Excess
- Spells: Flaming Weapon
Contorted Epitome (190)
- General
- Spells: Lash of Slaanesh
Glutos Orscollion (480)*
- General
- Spells: Pavane of Slaanesh
Lord of Pain (135)*
- General
The Masque (140)*
- General
BATTLELINE
Blissbarb Archers (150)*
Blissbarb Archers (150)*
Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)*
Symbaresh Twinsouls (140)*
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Mesmerising Mirror (60)
CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 1990/2000
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Turn 1
They gave me first turn, and I charged their first unit of revenants with the Masque, who killed 4 of them (for 8 depravity) and then they teleported away, and I shot at the little tree men with scythes (whose name escapes me) with the Blissbarbs to deal 5 wounds (with the help of a nearby LoP), but I offered a 6 to keep one alive and they took it. I rolled a 4 on the DP for a total of 12 depravity. I also shot at the unit of dryads who were outside of the forest at the time, and killed 9 of them when battleshock is taken into account.
As for spells, I managed to cast a single mystic shield on the KoS from the Epitome.
I tried to make a charge with the KoS into Drycha, but couldn't stretch the 10", so I waited in front of her and the tree lord.
On their turn, they had similar casting luck as me and only managed to heal one of the little tree men with scythes by one. Those lil tree men marched up to challenge one of my units of blissbarbs, and Drycha and the treelord moved to kill the KoS, who had decided it was their time to shine and had used finest hour. Drycha and the Lady of Vines shot at the KoS, and the Treelord Ancient shot at the Masque, but the ward saves were very lucky for both of them and they didn't take anything from shooting. Drycha did take 3 mortal wounds from a rejected temptation offer for one of her shots though. The Treelord Ancient killed six Blissbarb Archers with his shooting.
Drycha and the treelord charged into the KoS. The Treelord made them strike last and Drycha did a monstrous duel. I tried to roar the treelord, but it failed. The little tree men with scythes charged into my five remaining blissbarbs, who unleashed hell and killed one. They made short work of the other Archers and teleported away to cover.
The same could not be said for the Treelord and Drycha. Drycha refused the KoS initial temptation and took an additional 2 mortal wounds, leaving her on just five. In display of very poor luck from Sylvaneth and good luck from me, the treelord and Drycha only did six damage to the KoS, who struck back with the Icon active. Despite very poor hitting and wounding, the KoS did 5 MWs in a last did attempt from the claw, which finished Drycha.
The current battlefield:
Great read, looking forward to the rest of the battle! I hear we've been having a tough time with Sylvaneth so I'll be very curious to hear the outcome of this one.
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6 hours ago, Lord Veshnakar said:
What have your experiences been like so far with the new book regarding opponent experience? Have there been cries of “broken/OP”? I’m seeing it a lot online but my actual opponents (Disciples of Tzeentch and Khorne) have been enjoying our games. Is the book really “S” tier now??
My opponents have both largely enjoyed the experience. It’s not like there isn’t counterplay (refusing temptation dice early and alphaing us being two; magic domination being another) and our debuff stuff can be mitigated by good positioning.
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That's rough. I've been lucky so far I think -- I've had Troggoth Gitz and Sons of Behemat, and both had good options for generating EK. Since I'm finding EK our most important DP generator, I guess it really shuts us down if they're super tough (as in your case).
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29 minutes ago, azdimy said:
I got so little depravity that game.
Euhoric killer per turn got me 0/0/4/0/5 and he took mortal wounds when offered dice except about 6 times? I ended the game with about 30 depravity only. The depravity mechanic is super mqtchup dependent and his list was a real counter to depravity generation while I would have had so much with the old mechqnic 😀. It s a while new army to learn. again
How did you generate so little depravity from EK? Just no decent targets to go into?
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11 minutes ago, azdimy said:
Got my first game with the new book last night against Seraphon thunderlizzard double bastilladon and I never got this close to win against Seraphon. With old book, i d get tabled and despite the bastilladon hatred for deamons my keeper of secret with shining aegis was actually alive at the end of the game. We tied 21-21 but I ended up losing because I failed the grand strat to tempt a unit 6 times in the game which I don t believe I ll try again. Super fun game when I used to hate playing Seraphon with hedonites. I m very impressed by the book
That's a shame about your grand strat! How much depravity did you generate, and how was he with accepting/refusing temptation dice?
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Yep, the book is just very strong even if you do make mistakes. A good Euphoric Killers target more than makes up for your opponent refusing temptation dice too — and refusing really hurts them over time. It really is an excellent mechanic no matter how your opponent interacts with it.
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1 minute ago, Tizianolol said:
Guys a question af lord of pain aura: battletome says he got aura +1 to wound if he is cintesting an objective. If im inside of an objective that i controlli, it count he is contesting an objective? Thx a lot:)
Yes, he still counts as contesting it.
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My Sons of Behemat battle tonight in brief:
- He made me take T1 and doubled me. I had foolishly moved everything up; he obliterated Shalaxi over the course of the double and a unit of archers, and had also charged my LoP general. He also kept putting strike-last on Shalaxi, so despite Brodd being strike last too (from Visage), she just got roflstomped by him and the fighty gargant.
- I was convinced it was a done deal after that double did such a number on me, but we pressed on. Sigvald and Slicks charged and killed a horde-killing gargant. My LoP died after I overestimated his ability to hold a gargant in place for a turn.
- I failed to win a priority roll throughout the whole 5 rounds. The Epitome also failed 5/6 casting rolls (despite the re-roll) over turns 2-3, then got stomped when Brodd finally caught up with her.
- Sigvald was amazing. He killed two Gargants who had been injured by shooting and refused temptation dice. Speaking of which...
- My opponent refused every temptation dice until around turn 3, when the tide began to turn and he had to start accepting them. This was (a) in stark contrast to other battles I've played and (b) hilariously apropos, because it was a case of him being steadfast and refusing temptation until he phsyically couldn't anymore (gargants were close to dying) and so he had no choice but to give in.
- Because of this refusal and the fact he was too far away for me to charge T1, I generated 1 DP the whole turn.
- At the bottom of 4, I had left:
4 Painbringers
Sigvald with 3 wounds
5 Slickblades
1 summoned Viceleader
37ish DPs
He had:
Brodd, who’d taken 30ish wounds
He conceded despite winning priority because he couldn't score a battle tactic and could get, at best, 1 point. I'd likely had got the full five points in my turn. Also, he failed his grand strat (cast all of the Gargant Prayers or something) and I had the 36 DPs I needed for mine.
Final score: 20-16 Slaanesh
Final thoughts:
- I misplayed pretty hard at points (despite vowing my general would not be exposed again, he was and I left him there because I got cocky), but still managed to pull a win out of the bag. This was mostly because he didn't go after Siggy and the Slickblades (new band name) but absolutely should have because these two units basically wiped his army.
- Refused temptation dice really sucks, but they actually did so much damage to him. By the bottom of 3 every gargant had 20+ wounds.
- Phantasmagoria is just the best you guys.
- Shalaxi is getting shelved for a looooong time. She rolled double 1s for her spear with her spell up. Slaanesh does not forgive such incompetence.
- Should have gone with my second list (and intended to), but I forgot to print it. Glutos' -1 to hit would have put in work against gargants.
Siggy messes up Brodd.
Barbseekers prepare to run away from a Phantasmagoria'd killy gargant.
Slickblades put a heavily wounded gargant down (probably by licking him to death; more than one gargant died to seeker tongues)
Shalaxi gets tag-teamed and a gargant makes it into my Barbseekers. If you're wondering how this happened, it's because I'm dumb.
An alternate angle of Shalaxi getting roflstomped in the double.
Siggy and the Slickblades prepare to charge and kill this gargant, who at this point had killed 6 Painbringers. The Painbringers stoically kept passing their battleshock rolls. In the foreground, I inexplicably don't retreat the Lord of Pain.
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I've been kicking two lists around for my match with SoB:
Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh
- Army Type: Pretenders
- Grand Strategy: Glutton for Depravity
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty
LEADER
1 x Shalaxi Helbane (420)**
- Shining Aegis
- Spells: Born of Damnation
1 x Contorted Epitome (190)**
- Artefacts: Arcane Tome
- Spells: Phantasmagoria
1 x Lord of Pain (135)**
- General
- Command Traits: Strength of Godhood
- Artefacts: The Crown of Dark Secrets
1 x Sigvald (205)**
BATTLELINE
11 x Blissbarb Archers (150)*
11 x Blissbarb Archers (150)*
10 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (290)*
- Painmaster
ENDLESS SPELL
1 x Dreadful Visage (60)
TERRAIN
1 x Fane of Slaanesh (0)
OTHER
5 x Blissbarb Seekers (200)
- High Tempter
5 x Slickblade Seekers (200)**
- Hunter-Seeker
CORE BATTALIONS:
*Galletian Sharpshooters
**Warlord
TOTAL POINTS: (2000/2000)And:
Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh
- Army Type: Pretenders
- Grand Strategy: Glutton for Depravity
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty
LEADER
1 x Glutos Orscollion (480)*
- Spells: Born of Damnation
1 x Contorted Epitome (190)*
- Artefacts: Arcane Tome
- Spells: Phantasmagoria
1 x Lord of Pain (135)*
- General
- Command Traits: Strength of Godhood
- Artefacts: The Crown of Dark Secrets
1 x The Masque (140)*
BATTLELINE
10 x Myrmidesh Painbringers (290)*
- Painmaster
11 x Blissbarb Archers (150)**
11 x Blissbarb Archers (150)**
ENDLESS SPELL
1 x Dreadful Visage (60)
OTHER
5 x Blissbarb Seekers (200)
3 x Fiends (200)**
CORE BATTALIONS:
*Warlord
**Galletian Sharpshooters
TOTAL POINTS: (1995/2000)I could also switch the Fiends out in the second list for Sigvald or Slicks. I'm not sure on Slicks in this list -- they've got high rend, but without support they'll get wrecked by the first gargant that looks at them funny.
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Bit of a trial by fire tonight -- I've got SoB in my second game with the new book. Thoughts on the best approach? Shalaxi seems like she'll actually be a good pick here, not only for really putting the hurt on them, but also to tank them with her -1 to hit and wound against heroes.
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I found Barbseekers super handy in my last match. The 12" range is a bit of an issue if your opponent is able to get a charge off against them, but I used them to tag stuff already in combat to build up the minuses to saves. They're a fantastic debuff unit and great at objective stealing when you need that.
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That's incredibly unlucky with the squig hero! She does seem quite tricky to use properly, and generally only if you can get the first turn. If it's up in the air whether or not you get first turn, then you'd be best not deepstriking her, or using her to force your opponent to take turn one.
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1 hour ago, Enoby said:
I've had another game with the book, again vs trolls, with the following list:
- Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh
- Army Type: Pretenders
LEADERS
Lord of Pain (135)*
- General
Lord of Pain (135)*
Lord of Hubris (135)*
Glutos Orscollion (480)**
The Contorted Epitome (190)**
The Masque (140)**
BATTLELINE
Blissbarb Archers (150)*
Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)*
Symbaresh Twinsouls (140)*
Myrmidesh Painbringers (145)**
OTHER
Slickblade Seekers (200)**
CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 1995/2000
Overall the game was really fun, and I love how varied we can be with our tactics now. Our Battle Tactics are super easy to get and I achieved every turn, alongside denying theirs.
One of my favourite "techs" is to use Phantasmagoria for movement - so have your slickblades go into a weak Unit A, which has Unit B nearby, charge into A to attack and then pile into B. The weak Unit A should die, and the activation of Unit B should allow you to retreat, getting an extra 14" move.
When Painbringers actually got into combat with a 5+ ward, they absolutely weathered all attacks, from charging bounders to a Troggboss.
Twinsouls really held their ground when it came to surviving and fighting back against a herd of buffed squigs. In combination with attack on death from the Lord of Hubris, they helped secure the centre point.
Glutos tanked very well this game, only taking one wound overall (when accounting for his heal) from the Troggboss, 6 Rock guts, and 3 fell water. The -2 to hit really helped here.
As mentioned, Slickblades were great for their movement.
Blissbarbs seemed a bit too strong to me, but it's hard to say. I wouldn't want my entire Army consisting of them, but 2 attacks at 2/3/-1/1 with a LoP nearby nearly killed the mangler outright.
The Masque was fantastic, and netted me 12dp first turn - she is pretty squishy though, so I may use her more cautiously next time...
The Lord of Pain and Hubris are great support pieces - almost too good in some respects, but they're relatively easy to kill.
Overall, very impressed with the book.
What did you send the Masque into, out of interest? The fact that she doesn't "deepstrike" in the traditional sense (end of movement) but goes down before the first battle round definitely makes her trickier to use effectively. She could be useful for forcing your opponent to take first and potentially giving you the double, but then she just dies.
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I've been giving thought to our fairly naff magic, and so next battle I'm going to take the Epitome + Cogs. The Epitome should be able to pretty reliably cast Cogs, and then all our casters will get to re-roll. Spells like Phantasmagoria are just too important to rely on a single roll of the dice.
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10 hours ago, Enoby said:
I've had another half a game and, as a quick comment, Blissbarbs with a Lord of Pain are absolutely fantastic.
I've not been as impressed by Painbringers - not their stats, but I struggle to get them where they need to be.
The Masque was really strong - with a +1 to hit and wound from Finest Hour and the command ability, she does a respectable amount of damage for her points and nets some good depravity alongside dispatching an important target.
I didn't even realize the LoP's aura affected shooting too. I could have done a lot more damage with that had I known.
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29 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:
So, kindof a QoL issue but something to consider for temptation dice - attacks technically happen in sequence, not all at once.
You and your opponent should be resolving temptation dice well before your opponent has perfect knowledge of whether his unit is going to survive or not (or how well their attack is going, etc.) - after the first failed save (or hit/wound roll) in most cases (or after the second, vs. Blissbarb Seekers for example), when rolls could still go very well or very poorly, leaving the fate of the unit still in question.
I've been discussing this with my immediate playgroup (the 4-6 people normally play), and I think what we're going to do is call things ahead of time - "I'm going to tempt you on your first failed save, are you going to accept or reject?" - and unless they don't want to do that, do it that way. Otherwise, we'll resolve the 'correct' way - roll each save one at a time in sequence.
But it is very much not to the Hedonites players advantage to offer dice after your opponent has perfect knowledge of the outcome of the results of an entire combat.
I can see a lot of opponents wrinkling their nose at this, not least because it slows play down, but also because it's second nature for most people to simply roll all their dice at once.
One thing I thought was great (though I think this will change as people wise up to Slaanesh's new tricks) was how readily my opponent accepted at first because it didn't seem like that big a deal to give me a measly D6 depravity. As time wore on, however, it became obvious that his blithe decisions earlier were snowballing and making his life harder. I don't think I've seen a more perfect blend of lore and mechanics.
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5 minutes ago, Poryague said:
Maybe if Visage and shutting down command were on the same unit could force a battle shock test granted not an easy set up. There bravery 5 goes to 4 by Visage. So killing 1 or 2 models becomes significant for battle shock
You know I totally forgot about Visage’s bravery effect. Very much worth keeping in mind.
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16 minutes ago, Poryague said:
With tougher units you may want set up situation to offer 2 Temptations on your turn one in shooting and melee this way its 2d3 on the unit sure it's 4 damage average but in shooting phase and melee phase that can be extra model or models dying.
I think trogs are just a bad deal in particular because of high save, ward, and regeneration at end of combat. Probably one of the toughest units in game if you can't think of a good way to get pass all that.
Yeah Trogs were tough when it came to Temptation Dice, but they were juicy targets for the Pretenders spells (the best lore in the book and it’s not even close). Soulslice Shards utterly shut them down.
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Some thoughts on Temptation Dice:
I think they're going to be very, very tricky to get right. Several times in my battle I found myself offering pointless Temptation Dice -- his unit was going to die, so what did he care about an extra d3 MWs?
I found the most effective use of them was (fittingly enough) offering him a 6 that he really wanted, like an extra hit on his Troggoth Boss' big attack. I actually gave him an extra hit in the combat phase that killed Glutos because I was a few DPs away from a global 5++, and I knew that he'd only give me DP for that if I gave him something juicy.
I found them very easy to forget about. A couple of battle rounds I had a few left over. I'd therefore advise using them liberally.
Troggoths were a bit of a hard counter to the D3 MWs because they just regen that away at the end of the turn. Against an army without a 5++ on most units and in-built regen, I can imagine that decision to be a bit trickier.
Also some thoughts on Pretenders:
Amazing. 3 CPs per turn (and the ability to issue a command 3 times for 1 CP) is unbelievably good. Until my LoP died, I had almost too many CPs. Also, I'll never put the LoP in harm's way again, even if his output is pretty good with Strength of Godhood.
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So my battle today was aganst Gloomspite Gitz (almost entirely Troggoths). My list was as follows:
Glutos (Soulslice Shards)
Shardspeaker (Phantasmagoria)
Lord of Pain (General, Crown of Dark Secrets, Strength of Godhood)
The Masque
5 Slickblade Seekers
5 Bissbarb Archers
10 Painbringers
5 Twinsouls
3 Slaangors
My opponent's list, roughly:
Troggoth Boss, ability to summon Scuttletide and one-shot one of the game's toughest characters, 4++ that went away if he rolled a 1 (narrator: he did not roll a 1)
2x9 Troggoths that between rally, regen and resurrect are tankier than a T-800
20 stabbers, nets, curious willingness to generate free DP for the opponent
Skagrott, curse of arrow attraction
5 spore dudes that could block shooting (but not well enough)
2x3 River Trolls, stinky aura of -1 to hit, the game's most overtuned debuff to saves
Fungoid Cave Shaman, Hand of Mork (or Gork or whatever)
The battleplan was Ours For The Taking (table 2, battleplan 4). It's three objectives arranged diagonally, with L-shaped deployment zones. Bonus VPs for controlling opponent's home objective and having GCs on the centre one.
Turn 1 Slaanesh
He had one fewer drop and made me go first. Deployment is shown in the image below, but I have a feeling that this is gonna come out weird as it won't let me directly insert images so let's see what happens.
I deployed my Slickblades directly opposite his Stabberz on my left flank, as I don't think he realized the danger in giving me an easy EK target. Behind my Slickblades were my Blissbarb Seekers. My centre was anchored by my Painbringers, with Glutos alongside them and the Blissbarbs, LoP and Shardspeaker behind. Out on my right flank, the Twinsouls screened for the Slaangors.
Turn 1 magic was a wash. I got Dreadful Visage off, but it was too far to do anything (but would still prove later useful anyway).
I moved everything up into the centre and got the Blissbarbs in range to plink at his big central Troggoth unit. I actually killed one, which was nice.
On the left flank, my Bissbarb Seekers did a handful of wounds to the stabbers, and my Slickblades charged in.
I made the first misplay of the game -- the Masque had come on behind his big central block, but he'd screened his characters out with the spore dudes. I charged her in and ate 2 wounds from the River Trolls. Because there was a real danger of her dying, I activated her first. This meant I couldn't use all-out attack on the Seekers, as I needed to use all-out defence to tank the stabbers' attacks.
The Masque whiffed pretty hard, with -1 to hit doing a lot of harm (who plays an army with easy access to -1 to hit anyway), killing like 2 spore dudes.
The stabbers almost killed a Seeker but I got lucky with my saves. My return attacks were not as impactful as I'd have liked, and I generated 10 DPs from Euphoric Killers. For the turn, I totalled 15 DP and got the -1 to hit buff.
On my right flank, the Twinsouls advanced. I kept the Slaangors out of big rock range.
Turn 1 Gitz
My favourite ever endless spell, Scuttletide (spoiler alert: it isn't my favourite spell) goes off and gets parked next to my LoP, as he's decided that this 3CP-getting monster needs to die ASAP. He does 3 wounds to him with the subsequent roll.
He tries to retreat his surviving stabberz out of combat with the Slickblades, but he doesn't have the room to do so.
In the middle, his big Deathstar block moves up, but isn't quite brave enough to charge my 10-block of Painbringers backed by a LoP who's going to make his 9 troggoths go down to 1 attack each. He throws a few rocks and kills a Painbringer or two. I have parked my LoP exactly far enough that he can't get sharpshootered.
The Troggoth boss decides the Masque needs to die. I'm sorta sad (because I misused her) but also not that upset because she's holding his big fighty general at the back of the board.
The Twinsouls get wrecked pretty hard by 9 Troggoths. Those rock throws are really incredibly brutal, especially on MSU elite units like these. They subsequently get wiped out in combat. At least the Slaangors are OK.
We roll for priority, and I win. I take the turn.
Turn 1 victory points: Slaanesh 5 - Gitz 4Turn 2 Slaanesh
I eagerly take the turn because I need to bring some magic to bear on the Troggoth deathstar in front of me. I dispel Scuttletide (thanks be to the Dark Prince because it's the worst thing ever) and I get Soulslice Shards off (which will prove to be huge). I send my Slickblades after his resurrected stabbers (who came on near the back) and send my Blissbarb Seekers to threaten the flank of his big Troggoth block.
My Myrmidesh, folllowed by a healed LoP (thanks to heroic recovery), the Shardspeaker and Glutos, move into the middle.
My Slaangors decide that slaughter shouldn't come at any cost, and run away from the big Troggoth unit on my right flank.
The Shardspeaker puts -1 save onto the big Troggoth central block, and the Blissbarb Seekers kill Skaggrot. I forgot about the LoP's +1/+1 aura, which was super pesky as I would have done so much more damage to the Troggoths with them. Despite this, I kill 4 Troggoths.
Glutos, who'd sneaked around the side with his turn 2 run and charge, whiffs against the River Trolls. This will prove to be costly.
The Slickblades get into the Stabbers in the backfield and wipe them out. They generate another 10 DP in doing so (I hit the 24-DP buff at this point).
At the bottom of my turn, I control his objective and the centre, but have lost my home objective. I score 6 VPs despite this.
Gitz Turn 2
I didn't get many pics during this turn, probably because of how traumatic it was. In brief:
- His River Trolls vomit on a Finest-Houred Glutos, not only stripping him of ALL save buffs but putting him on -1. Glutos has gone from a 2+ save to a 4+. Can't stress enough how much I underestimated those trolls.
- His general charges into Glutos and, due to the save debuffs, puts three wounds through on him. He then rolls this for damage:
Glutos, already on 5 wounds, should have statistically saved 6 of those 18 wounds and lived to fight another day. He does not.
The Blissbarb Seekers, who redeployed to dodge the Troggoth.
He wins the double, and I weep at the amount of hurt he's about to put on me.
Turn 2 points: Slaanesh 11 - Gitz 8
Gitz Turn 3Turns out I also forgot to get pics for this turn, too. In brief:
- My Lord of Pain was unable to keep up with the chip damage from rock and vomit attacks and dies.
- My Myrmidesh die from the Troggoths (now unencumbered by the Lord of Pain's debuff) and the Troggoth boss.
- He rezzed the little spore dudes because apparently Gitz can rez 3" away from opponents and zoning out their Loonshrine is functionally impossible? Would be nice to have that on the Fane.
- His other big block of Troggoths starts for the centre, leaving 3 River Trolls babysitting my home objective.
Slaanesh Turn 3
My Slickblades sweep through his backfield to threaten his Fungoid (who's been zipping around using Hand of Gork to support Troggoths here and there).
The Slaangors move up, ready to charge his River Trolls now their big nasty brethren have left.
An action pic of his big block of Troggoths moving to the centre for some reason:
The Slaangors make their charge and do decentish, killing a River Troll and putting 3 wounds on another (that -1 to hit is brutal).
My Slickblades kill his Shaman. I put 7 wounds on the Troggoth boss from shooting (and with -2 to his save from the Twisted Mirror and Seeker debuffs). He promptly regens/heroic recoveries most of this away. You come at the Troggoth king, you'd best not miss.
I win the priority roll and take the double.
Turn 3 score: Slaanesh 16 - Gitz 13
Turn 4 Slaanesh
I get Phantasmagmoria on his Troggoth Boss. This is misplay #2, as I'm aiming to kill his Troggoth boss, not run away from him. It should have gone onto his River Trolls.
I also get Dreadful Visage off and slow his River Trolls down.
Shooting takes his Troggoth to a single wound remaining. The Slickblades finish it off and kill a River Troll. Also I summon a Viceleader because Acquiescence might be nice later idk.
The state of the table at the end of my turn.
Gitz Turn 4
Not too much happens, because he has no hero phase now. He kills my Slickblades with Troggoths and River Trolls. He doesn't score much because he hasn't got much in position. He also rezes 2 River Trolls because he passes his rez roll literally every time.
I win the roll for turn 5.
Turn 4 score: Slaanesh 21 - Gitz 16
Turn 5 Slaanesh
I don't have many viable battle tactics left, so I go nuts with a Slaanesh original -- Excessive Carnage. All I need to do is get either my Viceleader or Shardspeaker onto the central objective and kill one spore dude. Thankfully I manage this.
My shooting plinks wounds off his Troggoths because they can't auto-pass battleshock. He still passes.
Below is the state of the table at the end of my turn 5. He declines to take his turn 5 because he's 11 points down.
Final Score: Slaanesh 27 - Gitz 16
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Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion
in Hedonites of Slaanesh
Posted
The issue was I was quite elite (e.g. Slicks) so he was killing like 2 models and then I was failing to wipe him, so he was hitting back with a lot of attacks. As I said, I was misplaying a lot because it was the last game of the day (and 7 hours of gaming total) so I was a bit overloaded at that point.