Bosskelot
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Posts posted by Bosskelot
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4 hours ago, Arzalyn said:
Any info on how complete the legacy rules are compared to the 2 core factions books?
Talk is from influencers that they are literally fully feature complete factions with just as much attention put into them as the "main" ones.
From what Rob/Square Based said the decision to make some factions "Legends" and others not wasn't a developer decision, but management politics with main studio and the SDS having one of their usual slapfights. With a bunch of """unsupported""" factions having the most models currently available it sounds like the main studio won. (remember kids, companies do like money, but companies are also staffed by individuals who will make plenty of irrational and spiteful decisions to mess with other people or projects. This is corporate culture 101.)
All the talk about saying they wouldn't support them and going on this magical journey with the current factions was absolutely said through gritted teeth. The developers behind this project clearly care a whole lot about it and probably worked on the assumption that every faction would be fully involved in some fashion.-
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Isn't there already an Avatar of the Rat God?
Also the last thing I thought Skaven would need is more big centrepieces. But then AOS does love doing those. -
8 hours ago, JackStreicher said:
How do cannons work now?
They just generally do less damage and LOS is more restrictive.
The consensus among the influencers playing the game is that taking a monster or a general on big monster isn't just going to lead to them getting sniped in turn 1 by a single cannon.
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Yeah artillery now actually sounds fair and balanced, compared to the absolute nightmare it was in 8th.
In general lethality seems very toned down; less attacks on elite units, less AP, AP being divorced from S means that any S buffs aren't doing double duty, no more step-up, magic much less silly etc.-
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Really interesting that GMG says the ruleset is like if 6th ed fantasy and MESBG had a baby.
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The warcom articles can often be wildly inaccurate to how things are actually portrayed.
I remember every Necron player being nervous and disheartened with how warcom preview articles were treating The Silent King in the run up to the Necron release in 9th. Talking about how he was this evil megalomaniac with delusions of godhood which... is like, not his character at all.
And then we got the Codex and his lore was essentially not that in the slightest.
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1 hour ago, Sception said:
what really ticks me off is that the tomb kings *have* plastic kits that still hold up reasonably well. the tomb guard, necroknights, stalkers, sphinxes. /None/ of those are in this box.
Instead we have 90+ of some of the worst plastic models that were left in the oldhammer range, already hopelessly outdated to the point of being outright embarrassing when the game died going on two decades ago!
The tomb kings line had two big problems - skeleton humans and skeleton horses. Even the chariots hold up well enough if you replace the skelletons pulling & crewing them. Just Two Sprues could have revitalized the entire range. That's less than went into the bone dragon, and the tomb kings already had impressive large monster centerpieces.
but no, not only did they not update the models that needed it most, they didn't even try to mitigate the misery with any of the halfway decent kits they already have!
Talk about putting your absolute worst foot forward. A mistep so bad their shin burst from their leg to impale their head from below. It's like they /want/ this game to fail.
I'm big salty abt it.
Perfectly stated really.
Don't get me wrong there's lots of old models I do want to see come back and plenty which I think hold up well still, but the TK infantry and cavalry are most certainly not it.-
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Not updating the old core troops and focusing on useless giant monsters seems like the exact same issue that caused the old TK refresh to flop.
You'd have thought GW would have learned from 9th ed 40k that you need to update the core troops of a faction first otherwise people aren't going to buy into it.
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The success of a tabletop game and it's success as a Lore vehicle to sell novels are not interlinked.
AOS by a lot of metrics is the 2nd most popular tabletop game around, but it is basically non-existent outside of that. A paucity of novels, absolutely barren lore discussion communities, dead wiki's, 0 man-talk-lore presence on youtube outside of 2+tough and even the fun meme-based communities that are supposedly named after the system like r/Sigmarxism talk more about 40k than AOS.
This is the complete opposite of 30k which has probably done more to keep Black Library afloat over the last 20 years than anything else they publish, and takes up 70% of all lore discussion, youtube videos and memes online about 40k itself, and yet the last time I saw anybody playing 30k the game was a year and a half ago.
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Again, it isn't a good thing to be finding these supposed limited boxes in the wild over 2 years later. Boxes like Dominion and Leviathan swallow up a HUGE amount of GW's production capacity, which has already been having a terrible time for the past 2 years, so if they they produce like 60% too many of them that's an absurd amount of plastic and cardboard that hasn't gone into keeping their other ranges in-stock.
If we want to use new players as an excuse here, well I'd hazard a guess that more new players will be looking at 40k, so if 40k product ranges are getting hammered by needing to produce an AOS or Warcry or KT box that won't sell enough then that's objectively worse for new players.
As I said before; there are countries that have had certain products out of stock for over a year now. That's how bad GW's logistics are struggling currently. Overproducing these big prestige boxes that either rot away on shelves or end up having to be sent back to Nottingham to be destroyed is not all that good for anyone outside of finding cheap extras if you're going some crazy skewlist of 100 ETB hobgrots or 120 ETB necron warriors or something.
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The character system in 10th works horribly and is not something you want replicated.
If AOS just had 9th's Look Out Sir rule it would be way better.
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On 9/22/2023 at 12:40 PM, Ejecutor said:
I am surprised about that Dominion sentence. We saw lot of stores throwing its price to levels that we've never seen in AoS history in terms of big boxes (even lower than some Start Collectings), and that is a hint about it not selling so well.
Maybe it was too overproduced? I don't know, but that sentence is really surprising.It all comes down to how GW decides to judge or spin numbers.
In terms of sheer volume sold Dominion probably was the "best" launch to date.
But they absolutely 100% overproduced it to an absurd degree. I remember the release time and talking to some LGS owners around me, and they were telling me that GW reps were really trying to push absurd numbers of the box onto them, solely because Indomitus had done so well and Paul Marketing at GW thought that ALL boxes would sell that well. This lead to them trying to get the biggest LGS to take on 200 boxes of the new BB. For comparisons sake, they sold 125 boxes of Indomitus. BB is not as big as 40k.
Dominion was much the same, trying to get them to order 150-200 boxes of it and doing the usual "oh but remember Indomitus? And Age of Sigmar has been growing a lot in recent years..." spiel, completely ignoring actual reality in general but also locally; the owner had to say to them repeatedly that AOS just wasn't anywhere near the popularity of 40k locally and that he'd had 15 boxes of Soul Wars back in 2018 that he still had stock of 3 years later.
It's a very common PR spin within the corporate world, especially within investor reports, to game the numbers to make the performance of something look a lot better than it actually is. Video game publishers love to bandy around numbers of accounts, or hours played over a specific time, or any other number of tricks, to make the performance of a product look really impressive. So you can have a game that only hit half of its expected revenue/player count/sales in a specific time, but if its a big enough game that's still enough players that you can pull out "[x] amount of hours played over release week" and it will be a big impressive number to hopefully fool investors and journalists.
And it being overproduced and available for so long is also not some pro-consumer thing either. Every Dominion box that goes unsold and rots away on a shelf or has to get sent back to GW warehouses to be destroyed is potentially half a dozen other products that aren't being produced. Since 2020 we've had consistent issues with stock and availability of GW products, which is made worse when they do a big box game release that eats up all other production and exacerbates those issues even further. Look I love that you can buy multiple boxes of Dominion to get a bunch of extra Yndrasta's, good for you. But there are countries out there where people have not been able to buy Land Raiders, Fire Prisms or Battle Cows for OVER A YEAR. That's not an exaggeration either.-
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This is cropped art of the eventual 4th ed battletome and you can't convince me otherwise.
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also really hoping the Ard Boyz have options other than spears
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Very happy as an Ironjawz/Gitz player, although Trugg might end up going on a square base and being an Idol of Gork for my Oldhammer games. 😂
Do wonder if the current ard boyz/black orcs kit is going to keep being sold but for ToW instead.
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If nids are the sunday preview for today it's wild to me that we haven't even seen the codex cover yet, or even have any details on the Marine model release.
They are keeping things crazy close to their chest right now.
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GW have been massively overproducing these types of boxes recently.
You really shouldn't have any issues getting hold of one, especially as AOS is far from 40K's level of popularity.
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Loving these Soulblight Vampires continuing to be an excellent source of Drukhari kitbash material.
Hello new Archon.
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Two main ones:
- Get thee gone double turn. Can lead to one player having to sit through 2 turns of doing nothing (which for a game that already has a lot of downtime really isn't good) and it also leads to highly restrictive and boring listbuilding because if you do want to "play around" the "priority roll" then it massively constrains how your army is built. The fact that GW has had to bolt on so many band-aid fixes to this one mechanic to try and make it work should tell you that it doesn't work.
- Any future GHB/mission packs should just be... missions, and maybe "secondaries" or whatever they might be. All this extra realm stuff with new battalions, enhancements and command abilities is just an extra layer of annoyance and complexity that the game doesn't benefit from. And I say this as someone who is no enemy of complexity.
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20 hours ago, Beliman said:
Can you elavorate on this? I'm really interested in this kind of stuff.
Mostly this is down to all the different reaction or interruptive rules that can trigger, such as moving in an opponents turn.*
A lot of it just massively slows the game down or just makes some units practically unable to be dealt with by certain armies because they just don't have the movement speed to close the distance and make that extra move useless. Putting Overwatch in the movement phase too has had disastrous knock-on effects for game smoothness too; if both players know what they're doing they know how good Overwatch is now, so every movement phase becomes a player moving a unit, stopping, and asking their opponent if they would like to Overwatch; the opponents might consider for a little bit and then either do it or not. Repeat this for all 10 movement phases, with some armies able to do it multiple times, and the time it takes to get through a game balloons out of control. And this isn't even getting into the balance concerns with it either: one of the reasons for most Aeldari infantry being useless as I descrbed above is also down to Overwatch. T3 1W infantry just get chewed up as soon as they want to move anywhere, so unless they're super cheap or can respawn endlessly their use in-game is basically very limited.
There's other stuff too such as Fly movement now requiring diagonal moves if non-infantry flyers want to go over terrain; it sounds like a good idea conceptually, but not only does it make it more worthwhile to just go around most terrain features as most Fly models (thereby defeating most of the purpose of the keyword), if you're actually playing the game properly diagonally measuring and moving units like this is an absolute nightmare. The same applies to the Charge & Fight Phase changes; GW removed most of the "jank" surrounding fight phase movement which I guess some people would like (not me, I enjoyed that aspect of 9th's fight phase) but now the fight phase takes longer to play because of all the "Must" qualifiers put into the rules about distances. It turns the phases into these long drawn out slogs of having to measure out every individual model.
Characters joining units has really only shown itself to "work" if you're an army like Space Marines; where the sheer amount of characters, who all wear the same armour and are the same size as the units they lead, means that for the most part there's always at least one good choice for a Leader to attach to, or a unit to have. Then you get to every other army and the system just breaks down. The nonsense of Tyranid characters becoming weaker by joining bodyguard units because mixed toughness isn't really a thing and Sisters and Aeldari having these restrictive bodyguard units which either just make certain character/bodyguards useless dead picks are the prime examples here. But there's also just the fact it's made big deathball units the meta again as if your characters often cannot benefit anything outside their own unit, you just put all of your eggs into one basket instead. Then if the bodyguard unit dies, you're left with a bunk character that often doesn't do anything else.
The shift over to Tempest also makes games longer, as there is the requisite drawing of your cards, reading your objectives, looking at the board state to figure out if you can do them, thinking about it, and either continuing on with your turn, or discarding one and pulling another card out and repeating that process. This isn't a major thing on its own, but when both players are doing it over 5 turns then time quickly gets added onto the clock.
And while I enjoyed Tempest in 9th, and enjoy Tactical Objs in 10th, they are definitely frustrating for a lot of people to play and do not "reward building balanced armies" or whatever nonsense people liked to say about them in 9th compared to the GT missions. If you don't have cheap highly mobile throwaway units you cannot play the mission pack well, just like Tempest. And so your only choice is to lean into pure lethality and table your opponents. Can't do that either? Well, have fun I guess? Not to mention the randomness makes it difficult for people to counterplay their opponents objective play which was a huge part of 9th. Now the best general play, even if you can play objs well, is just to table people by turn 3 because if they get better draws than you in the first 3 turns it can be incredibly difficult to actually make that comeback. Not to mention the inconsistency of which cards can be freely discarded on turn 1; somehow GW thinks Behind Enemy Lines and Seize Enemy Output are easily doable in the first turn despite like, maybe Aeldari and Marines being the only ones conceptually capable of doing it somewhat reliably.
Also, requiring every unit to now have its own super special unique rules adds more bloat, burden of knowledge, imbalance and gotcha moments onto the game than stratagems ever did. A unit can't just be a fast moving skimmer with a heavy weapon on it anymore; it now needs some additional rule where it places a debuff on an enemy unit somehow EXCEPT if it's the same skimmer with slightly different weapons it now has a completely different rule entirely. Certain artillery units have absolutely punishing "Pinning" rules that can severely limit the movement of units; in 8th and 9th these were stratagems and so could only be used once except for the one exploit end of 8th where a Thunderfire Cannon could Tremor Shells 2 units at once and was considered wildly OP as a result. Now just take 3 Nightspinners or 3 Basilisks or 3 TFCs/2 Whirlwinds etc and just be hitting 3-5 units with these rules every single turn.
*AOS players will immediately think of Redeploy here. Guess which mechanic, aside from the double turn, makes people bounce off of AOS the most? Yeah, it's Redeploy. Now Redeploy is everywhere in 40k.
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I've played more 10th and my opinion of it has soured even more.
Just lots of change for the sake of change. Even its most arguably positive changes aren't necessarily an improvement on 9th, they're just something different. And there's a wealth of rules that look good on a first read but quickly show themselves to be problems in terms of mechanics or just general game smoothness if you just play a handful of games with them.
There is maybe the skeleton of a good edition in there. I once heard someone describe 10th as a bunch of stuff that is a conceptually good idea until it hits actual game mechanics and it falls apart. Them rushing it out to meet the 3 year deadline clearly did tremendous damage to it.
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40 minutes ago, CDM said:
Hopefully 10th edition 40k and 4th edition AOS will be the first editions with a decent model release and battletome/codex for all factions.
Didn't 40k 9th have a codex release for every faction?
8th and 9th had codex releases for every faction.
9th had model releases for basically every faction (think only IK were left without one?), with pretty expansive releases and refreshes for a good number too.
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Influencers who received the new epic 30k box are being asked to send the books back.
So definitely some very bad print errors.
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Just seems like a repeat of the Kruleboyz; an overwhelming amount of characters and/or monsters but the actual core of the faction is looking very barebones.
Not that I'm too bothered by it; definitely not a fan of the new CoS stuff although I find it hard to pinpoint exactly what it is that makes them look so off to me.
Warhammer - The Old World
in Warhammer: The Old World
Posted
With regards to base sizes I think it's inevitable that over time everyone will move over to the new base sizes either through rebasing or adapters. The rules are just fundamentally written with them in mind and the footprint of your army changing by 20% is too big of a factor. Yeah very few people will be fully rebased on release day and for the initial weeks where everyone is learning, re-learning, experimenting with the rules then there will be a lot of leeway given. But even the local super casual Old World players are ALL rebasing their armies and one of the local clubs is even offering a laser-cutting/3d printing service for new movement trays to encourage people to switch over.