macrake
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Posts posted by macrake
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I think people need to get more familiar with the current battleplans. Most of them have 3 central objectives, or 4. From round 3 one is removed. It's really pretty rare that you need something to stay on a "home" objective.
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4 hours ago, Turragor said:
A) hold objectives - Unless we're playing an all dragon list, we'd prefer something else to stand and hold (especially in our board half)
Not really though. I'd rather have a 145 point dragon on an objective than 5 115 points liberators.
4 hours ago, Turragor said:B) trade against multiple expensive enemy units - the damage discussion above is interesting as it may be that comparably priced enemy units may survive against 2 Stormdrakes, which isn't always ideal. But it is a classic Stormcast problem, not a great trading army.
Stormdrakes have the mobilty to let you choose where and how much you hit something with, with no luck of dice needed.
4 hours ago, Turragor said:D) synergise with another unit that then does A-C better. In a dragon list the Knight Draconis has a touch of this I guess.
They synergise with our only good command trait. -1 to enemy wound rolls. And the knight of course. They take buffs as well as anything else. Sadly SCE dont have many synergies.
4 hours ago, Turragor said:E) prevent the enemy from doing A-D... often this was my bread and butter in a Starcast list, removing buff pieces (D) or tying up a dangerous unit with an unkillable Lord Celestant on Stardrake preventing that unit from performing (B).
With their tankyness, mobilty, ranged MW, good output and taking up massive board space, they perform this role exceptionally.
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Do we know base sizes for the new units? (dragons in particular)
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4 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:
Thank you for your replies and your patience. Can you explain to me what you would be specifically using the long range ballista shot for that makes them worth taking en masse over something like your Judicators or Longstrikes.
I think we're at a consensus that there isn't really a place for the 18" shooting, so my question is really what is the niche of the ballista at long range? It doesn't do much damage (even factoring in the -3 rend, you're looking at an average of about 2.5 damage against weak saves, 1.6 against a 2+ save with no buffs), it's not particularly reliable, and investing in e.g. 2 or 3 and an Ordinator is a huge investment that you rightly point out you could take 10-15 Judicators with.
They're not worth taking. One costs the same as one stormdrake guard. Which has better shooting.
Being serious - you are correct, taking 2-3 ballista and an ordinator is a horrible idea. If you want to snipe stuff, take 6 longstrikes and a lord relictor to teleport them. If you want something to just shoot while being bodies on an objective, take judicators.
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47 minutes ago, PJetski said:
You really want to charge with Drakes, so if you get hit first you lose a lot of damage.
Nah, just use the blades.
48 minutes ago, PJetski said:Fulminators on the charge seem to be our strongest hammer unit so far. Annihilators with Grandhammers are a huge impact and require little external support.
Drakes will guaranteed shoot and smash into whatever you want them to. Fulminators need a translocation. And their damage drops to half after charge. Annihilators do require support - lord imperatant. Otherwise you're banking on a 9" rerollable, which is only about 50%. Both of these are also no where near as tanky as SDG. And they dont take objectives.
51 minutes ago, PJetski said:You need to bring a Draconis to smooth out the variance (and sometimes just to melt something with a ton of lucky mortals) and these points really start to add up.
Draconis is an amazing unit in itself for 255. He's not a useless one trick support like a lord-relictor or imperatant.
53 minutes ago, PJetski said:They are a 3+ MONSTER which is all the rage right now, but remember that they're not HERO units so you can't Heroic Recovery or Their Finest Hour with them. You need to invest in Mystic Shield and other such save bonuses, and if you bring more than one unit your opponent can focus fire down the ones you don't buff with save boosts.
Uhm, this can be said for everything else you mentioned. SDG are FAR more tanky. More wounds per point, 4+ spell ignore, -1 to enemy wound rolls.
56 minutes ago, PJetski said:You need to put a lot of opportunity costs into making them worthwhile and I think that kind of deathstar playstyle has a lot of obvious weaknesses.
What are you talking about? There is no opportunity cost, they do everything, and dont need any help to do it. What are these many obvious weaknesses?
58 minutes ago, PJetski said:You still need bodies for objectives, shooting to tear down screens, and the right support.
They count as 5 each. They shoot. They need 0 support.
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30 minutes ago, readercolin said:
however you will have to keep in mind that damagewise, Stormdrake Guard aren't all that great.
This is just wrong. 2 SDG only do 20% less than 2x charged fulminators (our highest dmg per point unit) and can eat a model and do monstrous rampage. They dont need any help delivering their damage and they dont drop off after first charge.
Every other hammer we have require additional support to get into combat, or rely on a charge roll that can and will often fail.
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Hammers of Sigmar
Knight Draconis
4x stormdrake
2x stormdrake
1x stormdrake
Lord relictor
6 longstrikes
5 liberators
1995 points, one drop.
Or just go all out on the crazy dragons:
Knight Draconis
4x stormdrake
4x stormdrake
2x stormdrake
1x stormdrake+ lord relictor or just 2x stormdrake. Probably relictor to teleport and remain on an objective. Other single dragon can stay with him or go tap another objective.
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16 minutes ago, Ragest said:
First turn with my 6 annihilators. 42 damages with +1Hit.
Second turn 2 down and 27 damages.
Third turn another 24 damages with -1 to hit and +1 to hit.
Who wants boring drakes
That's great, but 3 greathammer annihilators only do about 15% higher dmg than 2 drakes in melee. That does not make them even remotely close to worth losing all the million things drakes have.
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I think we'll need to be fast on the trigger finger when dragons come out. They'll sell out so fast.
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2 minutes ago, ledha said:
I hope people ready to spam stormdrake guards are conscious that they will get a nerf in the next AOS faq because even if GW balance team is very often drunk when they decide point costs there is no way they keep them at 285 pts for a entire year
They're too cheap for sure. Maybe even 50 points too cheap. Hopefully next FAQ will have some sensible points adjustments. Theres not much in the SCE tome that is too cheap, but damn there's alot thats way too pricy.
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1 hour ago, Nizrah said:
50 dmg on charge XDDDD
They're great, not saying they aren't, but I just come back to "why not stormdrake guard instead?"
Getting 4 fulminators into combat will require using lord relictor. Thats 145 points. SDG need no help getting into combat. So lets say 4 are about equal cost to 4 fulmis, since fulmis require the lord relictor (they really do, if they dont charge they drop way down).
Now compare the damage. 4 fulmis with +1 wound +1 hit will do 43 dmg to a 3+ save including shooting.
4 SDG with +1 wound +1 hit will do 36 dmg to a 3+ save including shooting.
So what are you trading for 15% more damage?
1. On charge only. (fulmis dmg almost drops to half outside of charge turn)
2. Much less tanky. (less wounds, no 4+ spell ignore, no -1 to enemy wound rolls)
3. Not monster. (able to score more points, more models on objective, monstrous rampage)
4. Mobility. (12" move, fly, hero phase move+charge)
5. Eat a model.
6. I'm sure theres more...
What im saying is, SDG are completely nuts.
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31 minutes ago, Malakithe said:
While the all dragons approach is cool those lists wont be able to do anything objective related. And what about meat grinder lists? OBR, 100+ skaven, 100+ zombies, splitting horrors.
They're monsters so count for 5 models each. From past games experience I am not at all worried about being able to take objectives. Against those lists I'd generally just take out the supporting pieces first, which should be easy with how shooty and mobile dragons are.
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6 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:
6 stormdrakes in a unit is going to be hell to position. Don’t do this to yourself
They have 3" coherency. But you might be right - gonna need to play with it.
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Outside of dragons, I'm really not excited for this tome. There's just too few synergies and too many overcosted units. Probably gonna start a new army when/if dragons get nerfed. I've got two possible lists below.
I want to bring Krondys, but it's hard to take him when you can just take 4 SDG instead, or 6 raptors+relictor. Please convince me I should find room for him in either of these list:
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One drop battle regiment
Knight Draconis. General, monster menagerie. Artefact undecided. Probably hammers of sigmar.
6x Stormdrake
2x Stormdrake
2x Stormdrake
2x Stormdrake
Can swap 2x drakes for some utility/chaff. I think going for one drop is super important with a list capable of so much alpha. Going with a pack of 6 for maximizing buffs and the Knight Draconis hero phase shoot.
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One drop battle regiment
Knight draconis. General, monster menagerie. Artefact undecided. Probably hammers of sigmar.
1x stormdrake
2x stormdrake
4x stormdrake
6x longstrikes
Lord relictor
5 liberators
This list trades 5 drakes for 6 teleporting longstrikes and some libs. I think this list might be better because of the increased options. The damage of 6 double tapping longstrikes is real, and at massive range with a potential teleport as needed. Drakes are better, but something will have to hold back objectives and this list probably does that a bit better.
Krondys could be swapped for 4 drakes in list 1. In list 2 he can be swapped for 3 drakes+relictor or longstrikes+relictor.
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I lean toward rolling one dice. Because usually the wording is "... roll a dice for each enemy unit.. " and in this case, it is not.
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QOUTE: |"Both "on dracoth" or "on Stardrake" are part of the name of the unit in the pitched battle profiles, so they are not a subheading which can be ignored"|
When they write "included in the entry for the unit", it means the entry in the battalion organisation. Entry does not mean "name of the unit on it's warscroll".
For an example, the skaven battalion "Congregation of Filth" has a unit entry of a "Plague priest on plague furnace". Here the sub-heading is "on plague furnace". And it can't be ignored, since it's in the unit entry of the battalion. So no normal Plague priest. If on the hand the unit entry in the battalion was just "plague priest", then both plague priest and plague priest on plague furnace would work.
Consider this: If what you wrote is true, then what is a sub-heading?
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It does list the title yes. But the new rule says that if the unit entry in the battalion is a title, then any unit with that title can used (and you can ignore sub-headers). "on stardrake" and "on Dracoth" are both sub-headers. So by RAW it works. I also think it's intended. Why else would they have made this change, if not to address old battalions? If it doesn't work for Skyborne slayers, then the change to battalion rules is meaningless.
Would be nice to get an FAQ on this. Also affects other old battalions like FEC royal family.
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Sorry, not from GBH, but from Core rules under battalion rules. Not sure the date that it was added.
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Does this change from the GBH 2020 mean a Lord Celestant on stardrake or dracoth can be in a skyborne slayers battalion?
"The organisation section of a battalion lists the titles or keywords for the units it can or must include. If an entry is the title of a unit, any unit with that title can be used (you can ignore sub-headers under the title unless they are included in the entry for the unit). Understrength units (pg 13) cannot be used as part of a warscroll battalion."
Drakecast - The Thread
in Stormcast Eternals
Posted
From my own experience in games and tournaments, I'm convinced a drakespam list with 1 or 2 support heroes will outperform anything else. I wont mind being wrong though, because that means more stuff is viable. That would be great. Excited to get the models and play some tournies.