macrake
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Posts posted by macrake
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Not worth the points spent on the endless spell or use of the teleport. With no bonus to cast, it's getting unbound against so many lists.
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The not communicating is the worst. I have to assume they themselves are at a point where they have no idea when things will be resolved, and that's why they're radio silent.
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The comic part is that they actually had time to nerf quite a few solid things, such as:
Heraldor
Castellant (heal on 6's gone, up in points)
Venator
Azyros
Exorcist
Drakesworn
Evocator reach
Gavriel
Who thought these things needed nerfing?
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Yeah, the only thing that comes close to powercreep are SDG. The tome itself has very little power.
Half the new models are either trash tier or way too expensive.
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9 minutes ago, AR605 said:
I hope you're right 😁
Translocate just gives us some options (in casual play) and that is exactly what we need. If they're nerfing it, we are bound to some few units that perform ok (outside of dragons) and therefor we will see the same lists over and over again... thought that would eventually end with 3.0 and MSU...
Also could we see the rest of the lineup up for preorder next week?
I'm pretty much expecting no dragons this year. That way I might be positively surprised.
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35 minutes ago, NinthMusketeer said:
If we are seriously talking strict competitive sense, old paladins are already sub-optimal; nerfing translocate weakens them but does not affect their status in optimized lists because they already won't be there. The dragons are already so much better on multiple fronts on top of acting far, far more reliably than translocate as well as being more flexible and straight-up better for battle tactics. On optimized list is pushing dragons hard and that means filling the remainder with the cheapest units possible. Though vindictors will win out over liberators unless the point are really tight on fitting something in thanks to sheer efficiency. But paladins? They don't fill the objective camping roll as well as the battleline, they don't fill battleline except in Excelsior, they need a priest around to teleport them (in a meta dominated by armies that can snipe it), the prayer to go off, then they can still get screwed by a good redeploy, unleash hell, or screening. Dragons don't need the first two (but can still use it if they want), have a means to bypass redeploy/unleash by charging in the hero phase, and can fly over screens using their larger coherency to make up for their base size.
On the casual end there are a myriad of ways to utilize paladins, on the competitive end they are inferior. Talk of using them is immediately in the 'specifically less than ideal' category of discussion. Which is fantastic; that's where most of the game is.
Well yeah, talking about anything other than dragons and maybe a block of longstrikes is in the sub-optimal category. Thats the point really. If dragons get nerfed hard enough, and translocate is nerfed, there is really nothing competitive enough to fall back on.
Would put SC right where we've been for most of 2.0. Solidly C tier. Our units, in general, are just too expensive and the army offers very little synergy and buffs outside of warscrolls. 3/4 command traits are trash. Scions is close to a non factor. Our subfactions are super low impact.
There is hope for points adjustments though. Few nerfs to top tier armies and some points reductions and we can probably find something workable.
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40 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:
That was said by Sentinels amd Gotrek as well and look where we are 😛
If they get more expensive though, Dragon lists will not have the bodies to work and be lacking damage. So with more expensive dragons and a removal of translocate move they could nuke the stormcast book into meh tier as before. Hope that does not happen.
They could probably survive up to a 20 point increase per 2. Hopefully an eventual points adjustment would include adjusting the points on all the overcosted stuff. And maybe they'll even adjust the armies with 55%+ win rates.
But yeah, if translocate gets nerfed and dragons get pointed out of play, I'll be looking at other armies.
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We lost Gavriel, so yes, without Translocation as is, our slow elite infantry will not see competitive play outside of a few annihilators with imperatant.
It will probably also push fulminators way down in tiers. They will be counter chargers at best.
Basically it means EVERYONE playing dragons. If they ever come out.
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25 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:
So, since SCE are super vulnerable to MWs especially since we’re putting an only an average of 26 models on the table, I‘d like to know if anyone found a way to make our units more resilient? Every MW hurts my soul when playing SCE 🥲
Dragons have a solid wound/point ratio and 4+ spell ignore. Combine that with gardus or hammers for a ward save. Hero can be protected by mirrorshield or amulet of destiny.
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17 minutes ago, PJetski said:
Why would you consider an errata published before the current battletome to be relevant to the current battletome?
When the RAW isn't clear, intent can be helpful. That errata shows intent. It might have changed, sure.
Either way, that errata isn't needed. It still comes down to one of the two interpretations i wrote previously.
And that concludes what I've got to add to this discussion. Email sent for FAQ.
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This is still part of the SC errata. I dont think we can just ignore it. Cycle stops a model from being slain.
1. If you think cycle triggers if a model is slain, then 14.2 doesn't matter and the ability functions just like it always has.
2. If you think cycle triggers when a model is removed, then things don't function.
Personally, I read cycle as option 1.
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8 minutes ago, PJetski said:
You disagree but wrote the exact same thing...? Maybe you should actually read what I wrote
It's a very clearly defined interaction - you don't remove models until all wounds are finished being allocated, and Cycle triggers when you remove a model.
I don't really care about the house rules made by your local tournament
You wrote that cycle does NOT trigger on slain. Thats what I disagree with.
Also, the interaction isn't clear at all, because cycle has a specific FAQ that contradicts 14.3
But you have convinced yourself that you're right, so have fun with that.
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6 minutes ago, PJetski said:
Also worth noting that Cycle does not trigger from a model being slain, but rather when it is removed. It doesn't say "when a model is slain" it says "if a model is slain, instead of removing it from play".
Disagree. The ability triggers if a model is slain. The effect of the ability happens instead of removing the model.
11 minutes ago, PJetski said:The old way is not consistent with 14.2
Sure, but do you really want to argue this at a tourney, when there's an FAQ that specifies how wounds are allocated, when cycle of the storm happens? I would never try to argue this wierd mechanic to a TO.
I mean it would be hilarious to have SDG splitting wounds amongst the models.
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The overkill damage would continue being allocated to the rest of the unit, and afterwards the one model would be healed to 1 wound.
But I would play it the way the old FAQ intended. It basically negates a wound, or more importantly, slayer of kings/hand of dust, and can trigger blaze of glory multiple times.
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I'm at the point now where I might as well shelve my SC. I'm not really excited for the tome, outside of dragons, and the odds of them being nerfed to oblivion are probably high. Going to two tourneys with a bunch of oldcast and trying to scratch out a few wins isn't very appealing.
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10 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:
We will know later today what is going up for pre-order next saturday, it might still be some stormcast, would make sense after having kruleboyz, then 40k orkz, then back to AoS... I hope... Still even then that would be 1 month from tome release to actually getting any of the new models, unless they delay even longer...
People seem to love them so much, I just can't see them do very well against so many lists. Sure with all out attack and the 1 time per game double tap, they could make a dent in some things, but there are so many counter that will take them right off the board. For example KO, they will just drop down and nuke them with no effort, 12 wounds on a 4+ save for nearly 500 pts is just a juicy target. I see them snipe off around 500 pts, then die themselves.
I think the list will lack some punch. Outside the longstrikes there is really nothing hitting all that hard. Liberators and vindictors will not really be able to deal with any threats on their own. Aetherwings are also just "there". The chariots got very little punching power and the heroes are mostly there for support,
I am just talking competitive gaming here, for everything else this is just fine, I just do not think it has the tools to deal with the big boys out there. For example Sons of Behemat will just walk over this, even if the longstrikes manage to shoot one down, it is unlikely to happen in 1 battle round, even with double shooting, and after that it will be impossible to deal with them before the game is lost. Same goes for Morathi and bow snakes, who will simply teleport a unit of snakes into range as needed and shoot away the longstrikes, while Morathi just tanks. Seraphon will do the same with their ranged firepower, while also contesting objectives way better.
Longstrikes will have to be used carefully, that's for sure. For a less experienced player I'd probably recommend 15 judicators for shooting.
But it's not impossible for the longstrikes to stay alive. If you get 1st turn against DoK, you can shoot off close to 15 bow snakes. That's their points earned right there. If you don't get 1st turn, you can probably hide them with relictor behind some terrain and screen off the teleport.
Same idea with Seraphon, but will vary depending on their list.
Kharadron is hard. You'll have to be super careful with ranges, and prioritize their high range threats, while keeping raptors far enough behind screens. Will need a hard hitting hammer unit to punish them for teleporting close (Gotrek for example).
A big issue with all these high alpha shooting capable top lists is the importance of the 1st turn. If you want to play with shooting, I think you almost have to go for a one drop yourself.
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Might end up playing something like this next tourney unless dragons are announced this week or next.
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar (Stormkeep)
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:
Gotrek Gurnisson (435)*
- Allies
Lord-Relictor (145)*
- General
- Command Trait: High Priest
- Prayer: Translocation
Knight-Incantor (125)*
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
Anointed on Frostheart Phoenix (315)*
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
5 x Liberators (115)*
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
10 x Vindictors (260)*
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Liberators (115)*
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield
6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480)*
- Reinforced x 1
*Battle Regiment
Holy Command: Thunderbolt Volley
Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 435 / 400
Wounds: 83
Drops: 1
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1 hour ago, Scurvydog said:
That continues to be a problem when I try to make paladin lists. I think the dragon lists are good and paladins are interesting, but Stormdrakes got all those tools to move fast, move/charge in hero phases to avoid reposition/unleash and can also use shooting attacks to clear screens.
Paladins rely on the expensive delivery mechanism heroes, without a relictor and imperatant, the list is going nowhere, but these heroes cost over 300 points and do very little else, while probably also being way behind the main fighting force at that point.
So while the paladin idea is cool and they can pack a punch, I got a hard time making a list that works well around them. Going with 6 hammer annihilators basically requires the imperatant, then you invested over 600 points into getting an 18 wound unit into battle, which will not really go anywhere after they commit.
I agree and don't really see paladin lists doing anything against the competitive lists.
What will 6 grandhammers do against DoK? They wont touch the bowsnakes, because they'll be out of charge range behind screens. 2-3 of the annihilators will die to unleash. Same issue against LRL. And against Seraphon. Against Tzeentch maybe you'll destroy a unit pinks and then those 18 wounds grandhammers get blasted off next turn.
Grandhammers are way too glassy for this sort of one trick thing that most top lists can stop without issue.
Maybe blocks of protectors have a place, being twice as tanky as grandhammers.
I haven't come up with much that could be competitive outside of SDG and SDG+longstrikes.
Maybe a tanky redeemer list with a Phoenix, Gotrek and some shooting.
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4 minutes ago, PJetski said:
I think I would rather have an Arcane Tome on the Relictor/Imperatant rather than Call for Aid
And since you're going hammers, I think mirrorshield or drakescale armor is better than amulet on the knight draconis.
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35 minutes ago, Colgado said:
Two questions:
1. If you're going annihilator heavy for the mortals. How many squads? Shields/hammers? My first thought is x5 units but then you almost need to go shields to save points. What else would you bring to round out the list?
2. With the Stormdrakes, I know the numbers have been crunched on lance vs sword, but in terms of actual game play which seems better? With no way to retreat and charge, are lances good enough even with the higher damage? Anyone tried these out in an actual game to compare?
1. Haven't considered annihilator spam much. It might be fun, but I cant see it going more than 3-2. 6x raptors, lord relictor, imperatant and some bodies probably.
2. If the drakes charge and then stay in combat for an additional turn, lances and swords are equal, but the lances will have better alpha, meaning less counterpunch from opponent. If they stay in combat for longer than two turns, swords become better.
I don't think they'll be stuck in combat for 3+ turns much. You will often be able to shoot anything still alive and in combat with them, allowing them to charge again. Or the lord relictor will catch up and teleport them.
I favor lances, but obviously just an educated guess though. Fingers crossed they give us the models soon so we can get to the table.
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Havent played with the 3.0 tome yet, but have had a few games against good opponents in last battletome and yes it is strong. Used it with 10 evos.
It's a pretty simple but strong play. Get a big hammer unit in and wreck stuff. Shoot their screen first so you can get to the really tasty stuff.
There's plenty of things that can stop it though. Horror screens. Daemon prince halving charges. Belakor. Scary unleash hell units like 2x20 sentinels.
edit: "stop it" is probably the wrong term. More like "lessen the impact/chance of success".
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1 minute ago, LordPrometheus said:
A tool we desperately need, imo
Yep. I hope that both SC and the new OW tome can have an impact on the top tier meta. Would be sad if things are just knee-****** nerfed before we get a chance to play it out and see how stuff performs against top lists.
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2 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:
thank you both!! it really doesn't come across as broken, esp when we're still susceptible to MW and lost some bravery/battleshock auras in 3.0
I dont think it's broken either. Not compared to the many other "broken" top tier lists. I do think it's one of the things that will make stormcast able to compete at the highest tiers. But I think that's about time.
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It's actually really really strong with SDG. No redeploy is obviously nice enough, but the unleash hell is a big deal. Avoiding 15 bow snakes unleashing, or two units of sentinels unleashing, or 30 skinks.
Pretty great tool against some of the top tier lists.
Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors
in Stormcast Eternals
Posted
So stormcast on recent metawatch is on 32% win, hanging out with Gloomspite and BoC. Ofc it's pre battletome, but I just dont see this tome being much of an upgrade outside of translocation+fulminators and SDG. I sure hope people prove me wrong and GW do some serious considerations on how they point stuff.