Mwatts25
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Posts posted by Mwatts25
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9 hours ago, Lord of the Isle said:
Oddly enough they are! Vaguely thinking of them as Brionne / Parravon
Brionne was a coastal city, they basically controlled the southwestern corner of the shoreline in the old world. Parravon would work, other options that would as well include Montfort, Quenelles, Gisoreux, Bastonne, or Artois
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21 hours ago, Lord of the Isle said:
It’s a long story but basically the surviving humans have tired of being manipulated and used as mercenaries and auxiliaries by the Lumineth and have teamed up with various tattered groups of non Lumineth aelves of Hysh who also don’t trust Teclis’s children. It’s an alliance of the defeated, desperate and opportunistic. It has however been orchestrated in the shadows by Mysterious Entities
I’m now thinking Cities ruleswise with the knights and Bret heroes being SCE, the commoners being Freeguild, and City Aelf and DoK back up (the DoK are something else lorewise
EDIT - on elves and Brets. Brets and WE were of course buddies in 5th and much less so in 6th but still unavoidably connected, while various places reveal HE influence. But my Hysh ‘Brets’ are mostly working with ‘Dark Elves’ plus Shadow Warriors. It’s going to be a fraught, divided, suspicious force for sure!
Gotcha, though a point to consider, brets also disliked dark elves due to their habitual piracy and raiding of the brets armada and coastline, so you may want to make them descendants from one of the inland provinces of Bretonnia in your lore
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On 1/15/2021 at 5:26 AM, Lord of the Isle said:
I'm developing a Mixed Order force representing descendants of Bretonnia in Hysh with various (non-Lumineth) aelven allies - can put up lore / poss lists here if of interest! Model wise contains very few Bret models, just Questing Knights and a few archers, mostly Mordheim / Empire / DoW humans plus various aelves
While I approve of anyone who tries to keep the Bretonnians alive in any way, lorewise im kinda unsure how you were able to combine bret q knights with aelves. Most Brets are less than friendly with those of a pointy eared persuasion(not outright animosity more like intelerance and contempt).
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4 hours ago, zilberfrid said:
If you want good modularity, take a look at what Northstar is doing
They are even compatible between multiple sets.
True, they have lots of modular possibilities in these minis. And thats how gw minis used to be, not so much anymore. Now, to kit bash gw minis requires a lot more work.
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51 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:
Kharadron are also the best looking army in the whole of AoS.
I only have them and Cities, together with a Necromunda set. To me, AoS is modular.
Most GW minis are modular to one degree or another, im not saying there is no variation between mini sculpts. What I was saying is that in recent game editions and with the more recent sculpts, there is less “wiggle room” for variations of weapons, angles to glue arms on, stuff like that. Just as an example, using some examples from 6th edition, between various arms, heads, torsos, and legs, one could make 100’s of thousands of variations of a mini from bits in the same kit roughly estimated 8-10 head variants, 8-10 torso variants, 6-10 right arm variants, 6-10 left arm varients, 4-8 leg variants, 12-16 extra detail variants(packs, coils of rope, food items, pouches, etc) and different angles you could attach all of these to each other. A kit in most aos sculpts could provide maybe 400 assembled variants(many of which requiring cutting and swapping weapons from one arm to another) versus the old sculpts several hundred thousand variants(requiring only cutting from the sprue).
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8 hours ago, zilberfrid said:
That depends on the army. Freeguild, Disposessed, Coven, Kharadron etc can easily be given other stuff.
Some factions are built more with a single build option, but it isn't all armies.
This is true, but i would also point out that of the examples you listed, only 1 is based on new sculpts, the kharadron. The rest are holdover sculpts from whfb which was still more customizable and modular friendly than most of the new sculpts in aos
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12 minutes ago, Koala said:
One of the many advantages of both playing AoS and 40k is to see the complaints on both sides ( a friend and long time hobbyist just recently mused "Warhammer can not exist without whining. Whining is half the hobby!")
The 40k crowd is seriously jealous of the interesting and creative new models and (whole new) armies AoS gets. "Everything we get is rules bloat, a few resculpts of old characters and lots of marines".
Imho:
40k gets more stuff overall, but the AoS stuff is on average more inspired and fun! So i would say clear advantage AoS.
I would say however that 40k has a much more interesting modular aspect that allows for easier modification of armies, most new aos sculpts take a lot of work to modify and still look decent. for example, space marines often have limbs separate from hands and weapons, which when combined with micro magnets allows for on the fly army adaptation(though the recent edition seems to be undoing this somewhat by making the space marines more....fixed in design)
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4 minutes ago, ChillTuup said:
Concerning the high fantasy point I wont further go into, since High fantasy is basically something you apparantly don't understand compared to low fantasy which was more WHFB related as well as your entire charlemagne story, which also doesn't matter. If you don't want to accept that according to my opinion the army doesn't fit to AOS then there is no point in discussing this.
Buddy, i’ve been a fan of fantasy in general since I was a toddler, before warhammer minis were even a thing. Going strictly by definition, low fantasy is fantasy taking place in our world, not a similar world, not a parallel world, our world, for example, harry potter is low fantasy , however, a series like howls moving castle is high fantasy due to the fact it is not our world and has illogical aspects regardless of the addition of magic. Warhammer fantasy (which includes both whfb and aos)is all high fantasy by this exact same definition, because while there are similarities between our world and the old world, there are entire continents that exist there that dont exist in our world, illogical species and places that do not fit in a rational world even accounting the inclusion of magic. This isnt a debatable point its actually the specific definition of high vs low fantasy. And I hate to break it to you but all high fantasy is inspired by low fantasy. So please try not to act as though you are more knowledgeable about a subject than someone you have never met, they might be much more informed than you know.
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1 hour ago, ChillTuup said:
Exactly, both your examples are based on history in western civilization medieval direction, which is not like the high fantasy universe that AOS is. Hence the little amount of humans. And u assumend they dont match my personal aesthetic which is wrong, I own Bretonnia models as well, few knights, men at arms, trebuchet, etc.. However, if u wanna be upset about my opinion and make assumptions, go ahead.
Not really...they are purposefully left out of AOS cuz GW didn't feel like they'd work or didn't make enough profit, or both.. It's the same for Kislev (yes I had them too), and Chaos Dwarfs, etc etc...
Either way the point of the thread was that someone feels neglected because his army doesn't get an update which I think is lame, especially when it comes to the army that has one of the biggest ranges already.
While charlemagne is a person of historical fact, the multiple hippogryphs that appear in the stories involving him are obvious fantasy added to the story, making them fiction, as for king arthur, it is unknown whether he was a real person or an amalgamation of several britainic leaders, but he is still a work of fiction in that there is absolutely no evidence of his actual existence. You might as well try claiming that Atlantis is a historical fact, rather than historical third party mythical hearsay(and sidenote, ulthuan is based on Atlantis, so yeah there are ties to real world mythology in whfb and aos, as Malerion Tyrion Teclis and Morathi still exist and remember, further tying to a real world myth with the attempts of Teclis to recreate elves resulting in the idoneth and making them elves for after their Atlantis sunk. Throw in the whole dragon story of how arthur got his surname and its even more high fantasy.
as for why gw didn’t continue with those lines, it didnt have to do with profits or aesthetics. It was because gw wanted exclusive trademarks on all their terminology, and the terms used for all those knights, skeletons, mummies, kosaks, and even the term elves, are not able to be exclusively trademarked. Thats why lizardmen became Seraphon, dwarves became duardin, elves became aelves, etc. because them if anyone makes similar miniatures and uses any of those terms gw has proprietary rights and can sue.
this has backfired on them several times, many of those terms also cannot be trademarked, and they faced cultural lawsuits for them trying to steal copyrights to those terms(for example duardin and aelves are Northern European words from Norse mythology to describe dwarves and elves, so they are just as much open to public use, as for the word Seraphon, its actually a first name, and several people filed lawsuits against gw for that too. The loss of these suits are half of the inspiration to have forgeworld redo the old world. The other half being player demand.
as for original poster, yes he whined about the fact his army has not been updated in a while, how is that different from the multitudes that whined for vc updates during 6th- 8th edition, and because they whined, they got them. Squeaky wheel gets the grease after all.
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8 hours ago, ChillTuup said:
It's frustrating for sure, but it's part of the business either way whether we like it or not and no point in discussing how I would react lol. However, imho, bretonnia for example just does not fit in the high fantasy setting of AOS. Having said that, I was mostly responding to the overal negativity of the forums and not just bretonnia, which was just an example. TS is even in other topics posting useless ****** BUT WHEN IS Stormcast getting update :(:
:(: (:(:8 which was more my kind of point just because His army doesnt get an update yet
You really think that Bretonnians dont fit high fantasy? They are a fusion of Arthurian legend and the saga of Charlemagne, two of the primary inspiration points of western civilization based high fantasy novels. Even lord of the rings takes quite a bit of inspiration from both of them. Just because it doesn’t match your personal aesthetic, it doesn’t render them less fitting in high fantasy.
also, i wasn’t referring to strictly Bretonnian minis, though I suspect you checked my post history to figure which army I post about most. And while Bretonnians are one of my favorites, they are far from my only army, they are just the army that needs the most rebalancing to make worth anything for AoS competition. I also have a waaagh army(Mork>Gork, fight me), a seraphon army, a kislev army(doesnt even have legends warscrolls) and a vc army (Vlad>Mannfred, fight me).
and as for the whining about faction updates, someone else in here stated the solution in here, never have just 1 army, because it can be years between updates for a single army, by doing several, the feeling of being left out is reduced.
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1 minute ago, cyberhawk94 said:
Lance Formation's potential can be mitigated by limiting the strength or size of the units that have access to it. Based of the most recent warscrolls, the only units that even use lances are Knights of the Realm / Errant, Pegasus, and Grail Knights. So I can simply take it into account with the battleline, and limit the max size of the elite units to not be an issue.
The problem with a flat buff is a old-school 12 or 15 man lance will always do more damage going 6+ wide then any buffs I can give to 3 models, so they'd never actually be in lance formation
Im using the old terminology of lance formation, which admittedly I desperately miss from whfb, but rather than reverting to the actual lance formation utilized there(another issue that most my fellow aos players have issue with due to it “slowing down game” ) refer to it as Bretonnian cavalry training, permit the unit to do whatever width of unit, and apply the “3+ units in contact” caveat to the rule and you have a competitive but not broken cavalry unit
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5 minutes ago, cyberhawk94 said:
Working on some ideas for a mini-battletome. Keep in mind with this, I am not a writer, just a amateur game designer, so instead of trying to write new lore and incorporate things like the Ascendance of the Grail Knights, I'm going with the tried and true approach of "oh look, the same society somehow evolved thousands of years later in a new universe". So this would be just making bretonnia playable in AoS with its own allegiance abilities, not writing a new army.
That said, here are what Im working on for allegiance abilities. You all know the army better than I do, and obviously Ill be tweaking warscrolls and adding artefacts and such, but how does this look?
### Battle Traits
##### Blessing of the Lady
Roll a dice each time you allocate a wound
or mortal wound to a friendly NOBILITY model. On a 6+,
that wound or mortal wound is negated. If a NOBILITY unit retreats from combat or fails a battleshock test, they cannot benefit from this rule for the rest of the game.##### Lance Formation
If exactly 3 models from a friendly BRETONNIA unit are within 1" of an enemy model, every model in that unit can attack with its Lance weapon, regardless of that weapon's range.
##### Peasant's Duty
Increase the Bravery characteristic of any friendly PEASANTRY unit by 2 if there is a friendly NOBILITY model within 6" of that unit.##### Virtues of the Chivalric Knight
At the start of your first hero phase, you can pick one of the following virtues to be emulated by your forces in this battle:- **Confidence:** Re-roll failed hit rolls of 1 for friendly NOBILITY models if they made a charge move in the same turn.
- **Stoicism:** Friendly NOBILITY units can re-roll failed battleshock tests.
- **Empathy:** Friendly PEASANTRY models gain the benefit of the Blessing of the Lady battle trait.
- **Purity:** Friendly BRETONNIA WIZARDS add 1 to unbinding and dispelling rolls.
- **Heroism:** If the unmodified wound roll for an attack made by a friendly NOBILITY model is 6 and the target is a HERO or MONSTER, that attack inflicts 1 mortal wound on the target in addition to any normal damage.
##### Command Ability**Inspired Virtues:** *Visions of a past hero dance in a noble's mind, guiding him toward honorable victory.*
You can use this command ability at the start of your hero phase if your general is on the battlefield. You lose the benefits of your current virtue and choose a new one as though it was the first hero phase.
This is some good stuff, i like the directions your thought processes are taking this, as they match bret play style but aren’t overly broken(lance formation has slight potential of it though, perhaps something along the lines of “as long as at least 3 units in lance formation are in contact, gain +1 to hit or(not and) to wound” instead)
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1 hour ago, cyberhawk94 said:
? As far as I can tell they are the exact same cost per model and Bretonnian is slightly better with its 3+ to hit, but only getting the better save on the charge. (Free Peoples cav are 140 per 5 models, Bretons are 220 per 8 models)
First, which specific units are you comparing? I base my statement off of the knights of the realm and the drakespawn knights from cities of sigmar. Their stats are similar, with the slight stat and point value leaning to the drakespawn, both are heavy cavalry without ranged, both hit on a 3+, both wound on a 4+, both deal 1 damage per attack, but drakespawn have rend -1, their mounts hit on a 3+ versus the brets 4+, and they cost 130 per 5, or 26 points per unit versus the 220 per 8, or 27.5 per unit. All bret skills only work during a charge, so they only affect first round of each combat they initiate. Drakespawn beat them in matched points
also, drakespawn have higher bravery and a better save
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On 1/3/2021 at 3:46 AM, ChillTuup said:
Furthermore as an edit, i am a player and hobbyist who came back after years of break. Theres a few nice aos communities and people, but this supposedly big aos forum has so much negativity..every day the same complainers about GW selling and release strategy, the I want bretonnia back whiners and why does my army not get more my life is so difficult because of this and i want more horses for my army so now i feel neglected mimimimi, and constant other things that come back every thread i wonder if people shouldnt just get a different hobby where u can play 1 model and have no releases and just be happy.
Buddy, if you spent several thousand dollars on your armies, only to have them rendered OOP, with shite legends crossover rules, and then had to deal with ridiculous ebay inflation prices to continue building said OOP armies, only to be replaced with the sigmarines(which are uninspired, and bland compared to other creations they have come up with)you would be just as bitter and enraged as we were.
I don’t whine about the situation here much, I try to figure out ways of adjusting ****** warscrolls to be more balanced in gameplay, that would allow players of the old editions to convert to aos and reduce their pugilistic attitude. You complaining about their discontent just shows that you lack a sense of empathy for people who lost a lot. If it ever happens to you, I wonder how you will react.
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On 1/7/2021 at 1:36 AM, Grdaat said:
I don't recall that at all, probably because the stores I went to never went out of stock of any of those. They only went out of stock when items went on "last chance to buy" which the Slaanesh and Beasts range never did.
Also the Legends Bretonnia rules have been fixed for a long time now, the most recent one is on their app.
I think what he means is the rule set for “Louen Leoncouer” which was included as a separate entry in legends from “Bretonnian King” has never been updated. In fact, I would go so far as to say he has been excised from the app warscrolls.
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On 12/31/2020 at 1:29 PM, Grdaat said:
I also don't see any reason to get people's hopes up until an announcement is made, it'll only leave people disappointed and bitter.
By posting all that info on bretonnia for tow, even if im wrong, its still an announcement of a return of Bretonnian minis. So if im wrong its still 10 steps forward and one step back. I just hope there are new hippogryph sculpts, you have no idea how aggravating it is to convert a gryphon to a hippogryph
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7 hours ago, Grdaat said:
I highly doubt that, we're not going to be seeing the newer AoS factions in the Old World, and I don't believe they'll bring Bretonnia into AoS, especially when they haven't announced anything that supports that idea.
Technically Bretonnians are already in AoS. The longest part of developing an army is the sculpts, no question, if they did not update rules for AoS, they would be very foolish. Playtesting new rules for balance in a game like AoS takes maybe 2-3 months for a faction, sculpting minis takes around 5-6 days per sculpt(each unit type having anywhere from 3-5 sculpts, they’ll likely have at least 8-9 unit types eventually if not more). So if a single sculptor did the brets, it would take 3-7 months to actually make the minis. They could easily playtest rules for both AoS and TOW in the timeframe it would take to do the sculpts.
Now, more than likely they’ll have 3-4 artists on the sculpt teams, but they’ll have 3-4 play testers as well, so the timeframe for a single faction to be developed would be 3-14 weeks,
Take into account they will be doing anywhere between 12-18 factions(some of whom are already in aos and rule development time would be cut in half) that would account for the 3 year timeframe they estimated.
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11 hours ago, Grdaat said:
Old World maps are not compatible with AoS, and this isn't an Old World forum anyway.
I think the point that they are trying to make is that new bret info likely means not only new minis for TOW, but also a highly likely update for AOS meta balance for bret players. It really makes quite a bit of sense, as it kills several birds with one stone(it adds new minis to end some of the disgruntled end times players grumbling, implies updates to the AoS bret balance to smooth over transition players, it brings in new players with the classic “Arthurian” look of Bretonnian knights, it kills the sky high market on ebay, it adds new canon to the lore for all the black library fanatics, and it even defines the rivalries for TOW for people to start converting minis and making adjustments to basing work)
i knew it was smart of me to hold onto those orc and high elf bits, yay for decapitated elf heads on my general’s base ;D
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On 5/4/2019 at 10:02 AM, Beregond said:
Zeroken I really like your second example with having regional or racial differences between the horses. I would just be careful adding more abilities without increasing the point cost, which I am hoping would be avoided. How about the traits come with both a bonus to some stats and a penalty to others? For example a sturdier breed could have +1 save and -2 move or what do I know.
If they were not balanced this way, then I would only have these traits for the mounts for heroes. Though I do admit that the whole story is way cooler if it is applied across the board.
I would be afraid of the tome becoming too unbalanced for my mates to care to accept me using it, if the updates or additions going forward are not balanced.
Given that the current point cost of Bretonnian cavalry is already expensive compared to free people cavalry despite having equal stats, these horse breed traits would bring balance, not throw it off balance
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On 3/15/2017 at 10:04 AM, DWCScubaSteve said:
It’s good to see there is an interest in keeping Bretonnia alive. Having a large force of them sitting at home, I too would love to see this develop.
Sadly, due to time constraints, I have been unable to continue my own background story for why my Knights exist. But I thought I would share them. Just in the off chance you can use even a piece of it.
So…
Brief History
Gilles survived the fall of the old world and now rides through the mortal realms seeking out those who have survived Chaos and teaching them of the return of Sigmar. Whenever enough survivors are banded together, he bestows to them a magical Grail, said to contain powerful and ancient magic. In essence, they are relics of the old world.
These Grails are used by Enchantresses to cast magical spells or to bestow the blessings of Sigmar on their chosen warriors.
Belief System
Bretonnians (May replace name), are devoted followers of Sigmar. They see him as the true god of humanity.
They view the realm of Azyr as a Viking would Valhalla, believing that through devoting their lives to Sigmars fight, they will upon death be rewarded by becoming one of Sigmars Eternal Warriors where they will serve him once more until the end of time.
Knights of the Grail Wardens (Grail Knights).
The Grails bestowed upon the Bretonnians, are used in a drinking ceremonies, where warriors who have proven themselves worthy of remembrance, drink from the Grail and devote their life and soul to Sigmar. Once a Knight has partaken in the Ceremony, he becomes a Knight of the Grail Wardens, protectors of the realms of man and sworn enemy to Chaos.
I know it’s not a huge amount to go on, and it does stray from the ways of the old Bretonnians, but it could come in use.
My vision of the Bretonnians is a mobile crusading force who live in vast tents and constantly stay on the move.
Im sorry, but no. gilles would never turn from the faith of the lady(even if that mantle passed from mother to daughter.) nor would louen. According to the lore, both of them were able to secure the entrance into Lilleath’s realm of dreams behind them. And before you go on about Lilleath being dead, yes she is, but before she even went into the last battle, she passed all her godly powers to her daughter who took her name as well. So the god power of lilleath was not in her when she died. Both Gilles and Louen ascended to godhood as well, so the most either might do is acknowledge sigmar as a god, not as their god
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On 11/24/2020 at 12:56 AM, JackStreicher said:
The Horse is from the new Black Coach or the Corpse Mare stampede (Flesh Eater Courts endless Spell)
You could also use this Horse: (Knight of Shrouds) - it‘s a rather big horse. It also comes with a sword you could put in Mallobaude
While i do like the sword, i think the horse here is a bit too skeletal, so what i will likely do is one of the flesh mares, lop off the head at the top of the neck, lop off the front hooves, attach either some harpy claws or griffin claws to the front legs, and for the head either attach a secret keeper head or maybe a reaper mini vulture demon head, my only other option would be to sculpt a beak end on the corpse mare head.
as for the sword, I’ll likely get a blood dragon or von carstein vampire arm with a sword and add an inverted fleur de lys via green stuff on the guard
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On 12/4/2020 at 8:07 PM, Oceanic_Eyes said:
You guys see these bad boys yet?
They aren’t on the store website, im assuming they are only available via patreon or kickstarter, two organizations I would gladly accept money to hunt down the people who started them for their shady ethics and business practices.
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23 hours ago, JackStreicher said:
Some input:
I hope that helps
Definitely some ideas from those images, i take it the undead horse is from alliance death stuff, shouldnt be too hard to find, then a bit of minor edits to front legs to add talons, then i just add a pair of wings(fortunately have some extras From a damaged pegasus knights set) use my dremmel tool t grind out a few “bald” patches in the feathers, use some greenstuff to add a few feathers into the mane a bit. Could be good
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I am currently working on a rather large diorama of my Bretonnian army facing off against Mallobaude. And I want to do something I haven’t seen as yet. A zombified hippogryph(i played with skeletal, but i want the hippogryph wings, not fused on bat wings like most flying skeletal mounts)
my problem lies in trying to find the best mini to customize in such a way, i know i dont want either of the louen models for it, i want it to be very differently posed, more like a pissed off and ferocious animal thats been beaten into submission( think the hippogryph equivalent of those circus bears 5 minutes before they turn on their handlers. If anyone has suggestions, I’d really appreciate it
:(: (:(:8 which was more my kind of point just because His army doesnt get an update yet
AoS 2 - Bretonnia Discussion
in Order
Posted
Specifically, Languille and Brionne probably were the ones with the most reason to dislike druchii, since they were the 2 most important port city dukedoms in Bretonnian lands, languille as a major mercantile power, and Brionne for its Naval forces. Before the freefall of moussilon from dukedom to damned wasteland, they were also a fairly important mercantile port city, though also the likeliest location of illegal activity(buying and selling of stolen goods, drug trafficking, etc.). Couronne, being the capital dukedom, was likely too big a hazard for piracy targeting. And Lyonesse had the longest length of coastline, so they were more likely to be targeted for raids