[AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion]

5 hours ago, umpac said:

Shield wall doesn't have a range requirement. You keep them within 6" early to enable Advance and CS, then break up "formation" if you get a good charge to get proper frontage.

You need it for the Deathless save, plus you want to have the ability to counter strike if another squad comes into the combat. 

[AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion]

2 hours ago, umpac said:

 

I feel like movement trays are a huge handicap so I never use them. In my opinion a unit of 40 morteks is the most competitive option, I much rather take 40-10-10 than 20-20-20. Looking at tournaments both set ups seems about equally common.

Based on my tournament experience 40 is unwieldy. Keeping that many models in 6" of the Hekatos is difficult. In theory it's fine but in practice as soon as you add a terrain piece or you barely make a charge it you lose the ability to shield wall/counterattack with the squad trailing behind, or your guys at the front are moving 2" so the ones at the back stay in range.

I've had success with 30/20/20 and 20/20/20 (and 10/10/10 but that's a whole different can of worms). 

[AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion]

10 hours ago, Greasygeek said:

Quick question that Im not sure I have the correct answer to yet.

Protection of Nagash.

Lets say Nagash casts the PoN spell.

If he would suffer a wound and I choose to use his Deathless Warriors 6+ save instead of the 5+ given from the spell, will he then still be forced to teleport?

 

Thanks in advance🙂

Yes, he teleports when 'any wounds or mortal wounds are allocated to the caster and not negated, and the caster is not slain'. There is no teleport condition related to him failing the specific PoN save.

[AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion]

20 hours ago, Sception said:

Maybe, but is it better than Empower Nadirite weapons or Drain Vitality?  Maybe for some matchups or in some armies.  RBS becomes better if you focus more resources into a single primary unit - say a 40/20/10 mortek base instead of a 20/20/20 base.

If you take enough wizards to know all three then you probably don't have 5+ RDP before rolling for 6s, at which point I think Arcane Command becomes obligatory, imo.

Drain Vitality is better in sustained combat, it's difficult to get the spell down on a unit before the first round of shooting and combat due to it's range. I find with Mortek if they survive the initial shooting and combat phase, and you have Katakros or a Boneshaper nearby you will win long term.

Give both a try and see which you prefer, I don't think picking one of the two is a game winning/losing move, but RBS does take the edge off the first strike from Salamanders and other alpha units such as eels or cavalry with mortals on the charge.

Arcane Command is just not good though, you need to get the spell off, the enemy needs to not unbind it and then you get D3 RDP. You can't rely on it for your turn planning as you will get 0 RDP quite a bit. Even with Nagash lists I don't find myself casting this unless I desperately need the RDP for tricky objective plays, Arcane bolt is more effective.

[AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion]

10 minutes ago, Sception said:

To an extent, but rbs can only be on one unit at a time.  Depending on list and positioning it often just shifts attention from one unit to another.  That can still be valuable, but lately I'm wondering if its a bit overrated, especially in 3x20 mortek lists.

It still has a lot of value, even if it forces the enemy to not shoot at the unit you want to survive. I feel like it's better than Arcane Command in a list with 5+8x6+ RDP. 

[AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion]

3 hours ago, Obeisance said:

Fair call. What IS the current meta? I thought the world was pretty much shut down.

There are still a lot of games taking place in Tabletop Simulator, and even some tournaments online, so the Meta is still progressing and developing. It is probably moving quicker as well as you don't need to purchase models to try out new lists. 

Seraphon is the core of the current Meta, the standard list being Skink battle line, Kroak with his retinue (Starpriest, Astrolith, Priest) and as many Salamanders as you can fit into the list. There are variations, but Kroak + Salamanders are the strong lists. Reinforce Battle Shields will give you some protection from Kroak's spells as well as the Salamanders Mortal Wounds.

[AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion]

4 hours ago, Obeisance said:

I'd been playing a lot of Arkhan, but I thinking I'm gonna drop him from my list.

I keep getting screwed by Protection of Nagash forced teleports, he's mediocre in combat and our spells aren't killy enough.. and you can't really afford to take more endless spells due to the way the army is pointed. I will, no doubt, miss his mass regeneration of units and ability to shut down enemy spellcasting. I find I'm not getting enough out of Arkhan. Maybe I'm just playing him wrong. 

Adding the Leige gives me access to his +1 attack command trait and he's pretty decent in combat. Adding a Crawler, well, I haven't tried the Crawler yet. I'm gonna run a single one and use it to try to snipe out characters and generally be a pain in the butt. I can give it extra attacks, rerolls and a bonus to hit rolls as well. 

Leige for +1 attack, Mason for reroll 1s, Shrieker for +1 to hit. (I'll double check it's not melee only.)

Remove Arkhan and Nightmare Predator, add Leige Kavalos and a Crawler.

I'm pretty happy with this list, I'm gonna give the changes a shot on Sunday.

...

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Petrifex Elite

Liege-Kavalos
- Trait: Mighty Archaeossian
- Artefact: Godbone Armour
Mortisan Boneshaper
- Item: Artisan's Key
- Spell: Arcane Command (or Drain Vitality)
Mortisan Soulmason
- Spell: Empower Nadirite Weapons

20 x Mortek Guard
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard
- Nadirite Blade and Shield

6 x Necropolis Stalkers
- Spirit Blades

Mortek Crawler

Mortek Shield-corps

Bone-tithe Shrieker

Total: 2000 / 2000
RDP: 5+8D6
 

Consider Reinforce Battle Shields instead of Arcane Command. With all the spellcasting in the current meta it keeps Mortek alive a lot longer. With that list you shouldn't need the RDP from Arcane Command, especially with only the 1 crawler.

[AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion]

7 hours ago, Sception said:

1.  I'd argue the Liege is almost compulsory in lists that don't run katakros for rdp efficiency and the precious +1 attack ca.  even with katakros it isn't bad.  In addition to the support hero role, a liege is also fast & solid enough to be a mobile element in and of itself, able to chase msu camping units off of objectives.

OBR casters, the main alternative for leaders/rdp generators lack useful command abilities, are less efficient at generating rdps for the points investment, and cannot operate on their own.  And while we have some decent spells in their lore, our wizards mostly lack the significant bonuses to casting rolls to reliably push spells past the unbinding rolls of many of the more magically oriented lists in the game.

Obviously Arkhan and Nagash are exceptions here, but Arkhan is really too fragile for his points even in petrifex to really be competitively viable, and while Nagash arguably is viable, he dominates your list & leads to very lopsided games with much more pronounced weaknesses than your more typical obr lists.

2. 6 stalkers does seem decent, but you've gotta take morteks, who are already fighty and way tougher, and/or riders who are faster, so stalkers which are kind of a mid way between the two have a hard time fitting imo.  Things might be different if you could take even one unit of them as battleline, but as is, well, they aren't bad, but I doubt one unit of three will do as much for you as a single harvester, or a liege if you're otherwise light on heroes, while 1x6 or 2x3 will have a hard time providing the kind of utility you can get from a pair of crawlers.

I want to stress, though, that they aren't bad.  OBR listsmaming is very tight and it's hard to fit even pretty good units like stalkers in if they aren't strictly critical to the game plan, but if you do make room for them they'll still put in some work.

Immortis are in a worse spot.  they're too expensive to use to protect heroes - too slow to keep up with a liege and you could get another liege for that price anyway.   our non-named casters aren't good or critical enough to justify the investment.  nagash and katakros are tough enough thay they shouldn't need them & expensive enough that you can't reasonably fit them even if you did.  Arkhan is about the only dude fragile enough to need them, & expensive enough to justify them, but at that point you're kind of throwing good points after bad.  plus they're dirt slow and one of Arkhan's best points is that huge flying move, so you're clipping his wings by sticking near them.

I don't want to overstate their badness, as they're also pretty tough with some non-negligible hitting power.  with two weapons and a double attack ca they also take buffs well, particularly +1 attack from a liege or katakros, which would synergize further with their double attavk ca, but the second attavk round being limited to their shields only takes a lot of wind out of their sails.  Plus, morteks are tougher and hittier and take buffs even better and you already have morteks because battleline.

As with stalkers, if you could take even one unit as battleline, or if their CA allowed then to fight again with all their melee weapons, then there might be something to talk about, but as is they're rather lackluster.  Worse than stalkers, which are good but just really hard to fit at 2k points when everything you need to take is already so expensive.

I run them anyway, because i love their thematics and aesthetics, but yeah, can't really recommend them.

3. Havent run nagash in obr yet so I mostly defer to others, but yeah he seems pretty viable, but the monstrous cost combined with everything else in the army being ecpensive makes it very hard to play for objectives, and there are melee hammers strong enough to down him even in petrifex.

4. Shrieker is good if you have the points for it, predator is decent but imo pendulum is better at the same job for only 10 points more.

Soul stealer's pretty bad as it only triggers on enemy casualties in its fairly small range, not casyalties to enemy units in that range.  most of the time, opponents will be able to just pick casualties from outside the aura to avoid the effect.  has some extra utility for nagash, in order to get line of sight on enemy heroes to machine gun them down with arcane bolts, but his flight and height make it difficult to hide from him already, and the bound mechanic cuts into the big guy's casting bonus, which is one of his main srlling points.

Other endless spells can be useful as well, so long as you have at least one caster to try them.  balewind is nice for a boneshaper or soulmason.  Nagash likes his spellportals.  I still like shackles even after the hefty points hike.  geminids is still pretty good.  bridge or cogs can help with OBR's relatively slow speed.  palisades can be useful for blocking firing lanes.

Because of the high cost of units & heroes in OBR, and our inability to use command points, you'll often be left with 50 to 100 points spare at the end of list construction with nothing to spend it on except for endless spells, so if you're running any wizards ar all then it's worth taking some time to familiarize yourself with the available options.

5. As already mentioned, I think Arkhan's too fragile for the points to be competitive, even in petrifex.  Like stalkers, I don't think he's terrible, just worse than ither options.  I run him anyway, but yeah.

 

My typical 2k list right now is:

Arkhan
Liege
Boneshaper
40 morteks
20 morteks
5 kavalos
3 immortis
crawler
shrieker

if i were trying to be competitive the immortis would definitely be another crawler.  I'd also trade out arkhan for a mason and either a harvester or just more morteks.  Or trade arkhan, the shaper, and the shrieker for katakros.

1. I ran Liege/Katakros for a while and ended up swapping the Liege for a Soul Mason. The Liege is redundant in that list, he shouldn't need to be giving something +1 attack unless Katakros is lagging behind, in which I would say Katakros isn't being used properly. Soulmason gives Soul Guide and the ability to unbind endless spells, which I found important as players were using them to block my slow mortek's movement.

The boneshaper's ability is fantastic for its cost and the soulmason is actually a pretty decent caster (getting 2+ spells each turn, and soul guide is amazing). Both have a place in competitive lists.

Nagash is a large chunk of your list, but he does a lot. His command ability makes your army just stronger in every way. 8 spells is a lot of damage (Arcane Bolt machine gun does a ton of mortals to something within 18") and his combat profile will do a lot of damage. If you get protection of Nagash off, he won't die that turn, and if you don't get it off, well you know before the movement phase and can play safer with him. Yes things can kill him, but you should be able to play around those units easily enough with 9" movement.

2. Stalkers have a place in lists, especially against armies like Orruk. I agree that Crawlers and Harvesters make that 200 point slot competitive, but Crawlers and Harvesters have problems of their own as well. Crawlers are feast or famine, and if you have some bad dice rolls, or they make some saves, they do nothing. Harvesters are a difficult unit to run as you need to play conservative to avoid mortek charging out of range of them, which means your slow army stays slow, and you

3. Give him a try, you can play him smart enough that he doesn't die, and whilst you run less units with Nagash. I find Nagash lists a bit more difficult to play, but I think the ceiling is higher as well, in that a great player piloting a Nagash list will accomplish more than he/she would with a standard list.

4. Pendulum doesn't have the control that Nightmare has, it might do more damage but Nightmare is the better endless spell as your opponent cannot plan for it's movement like he can Pendulum.

I would never put the boneshaper or soulmason on a balewind, they need to be moving (especially the boneshaper) and they get nothing out of the extra 6 inch range on their spells.

If your lists are hitting 50-100 points leftover, I'd consider moving some things around for more units. Mortek and Deathriders are priced so that you should be able to hit pretty much right on 2k if you move some things around. If you have 120 points you can pick up Shield Corps and get another artifact which adds a lot to your army. 

 

2 hours ago, Greasygeek said:

Hi all

New to OBR here, so I have a quick question.

Dread Falchions for your Stalkers?

1. yes.

2. No.

3. It depends on the situation (please explain).

 

thanks.

On paper the Spirit Blades are better, especially as you can get them to Rend -2 Damage 2 with their ability. My stalkers have the Falchions as the damage output difference isn't massive, Rend -3 is good for the mirror (5+ Save with Shield wall saves a lot more than 6+) and because I play Warcry where they're good, and I don't want to buy a ton of extra models

[AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion]

On 5/29/2020 at 1:35 PM, Finklelord said:

A couple of quick questions before I start assembling and playing.

1. I see in a lot of 2000 point lists people don't use the Liege-Kavalos often. Is the reason for that because we have better options? 
2. Is it worth having a 6 man unit of Stalkers/Immortis Guard or stick to 2 groups of 3?
3. Is a heavy Deathrider army viable? Not looking to be super competitive. I enjoy their models a lot
4. Are the endless spells worth taking? I don't see many people use them
5. Is Arkhan and Katakros a must take for higher point games? They seem amazing but I feel like it leaves little room for other units.

I believe someone posted it a couple of pages back but I'm shooting for a full 1000 point painted army (just to get my bearings) then I'll expand into more units like the Crawlers and Arkhan. 

List as follows:

Let me know what you think! 

As always any advice or recommendations is always welcome! 

1. Liege has his place, mostly when you want to take two artifacts and in conjunction with the Boneshaper/Soul Mason, or if you run Nagash and need some cheap RDP generation. 

2. I've seen 6 stalkers run more often than 2x3, but both can work. Immortis Guard are not used too much so I can't talk about how people take them. I personally don't think stalkers are worth it as they do a similar role as Mortek (Do well in close combat), but they're cool models and kick ass in Warcry

3. Yes, I'm currently running Nagash, Liege, 1x15 Deathriders, 2x5 Deathriders and spellportal at 2k to some success. Deathriders don't require as much RDP as Mortek to be useful, so if you are running something like Nagash or a low RDP generating army, they are great. They're also fantastic as objective grabbers, and can do decent in combat even in a squad of 5. If you're going 5, get swords. If you're going 15 get spears. 

4. Bone Tithe is good in an army without Katakros or Nagash (Liege, Boneshaper, Soulmason mostly) to help with the +1 to hit. Nightmare Predator isn't terrible either. Carrion looks better on paper than on the battlefield, as you want to use it on something like Nagash or Arkhan to keep them topped up, but it's soul linked so you're hurting your own casting by doing so.

5. Nope, I'd argue that Arkhan isn't very good at all at the moment, and most competitive lists have dropped him in favor of Katakros+Soul Mason, Nagash+Liege or Liege+Boneshaper+Soulmason (or variations of these). There's an appeal to Katakros+Arkhan in being able to heal 4 of your units 6 models/wounds a turn, but honestly it's overkill as usually only 1-3 of your units need healing. 

 

Your 1k list looks solid! Liege will be great at those points, I would love to hear how it performs!