Leemer
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Posts posted by Leemer
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Assuming the EH bodyguard works you can do: Lady O, Nagash, 5x5 Hexwraiths, Spell Portal, in a Battle Regiment 1990pts.
Gives you an additional 50 wound pool for the heroes.
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8 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
He weirdly doesn't seem to get the ward, but I suppose in Nighthaunt he will be the only target for both Mystic Shield and All-Out Defense, so I guess he'll be at a 2+ ignore rend -1, 4+ ward against mortals by default.
Couldn't he also do the Hexwraith bodyguard as a general in Emerald Host?? Potentially 20-30 more wounds before he even brackets
EDIT: nevermind, he doesnt benefit from allegiance abilities unfortunately
EDIT2: maybe it's legal, bit unclear
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Anyone have any experience with heavy STD lists, especially varanguard?
And how essential is the double Warlord?
Put this list together aiming to maximise double pile-ins with the buffed Varanguard and BT. BSG spam and 4 chaff units for board control, then 3 monsters for BTs.
Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance
- Grand Strategy: Predator's Domain
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty
Leaders
Aspiring Deathbringer (85)*
Bloodsecrator (125)*
- General
- Command Trait: Mage Eater
- Artefact: The Blood-forged Armour
Bloodstoker (85)*
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)**
- Artefact: Crimson Crown
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (280)**
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Slaughterpriest (110)**
- Prayer: Bronzed Flesh
Battleline
10 x Bloodreavers (80)*
10 x Bloodreavers (80)**
5 x Flesh Hounds (105)***
Units
3 x Varanguard (280)***
3 x Varanguard (280)***
9 x Untamed Beasts (70) - Allies
1 x Cockatrice (95)
1 x Cockatrice (95)
Core Battalions
*Warlord - Artefact
**Warlord - Artefact
***Hunters of the Heartlands
Total: 1980 / 2000
Wounds: 127
Drops: 14 -
Does anyone have any experience with using Nurgle as allies??
The pusgoyle blightlords (185pt, 14W, 4+, 5+) seem solid for locking enemy units up in combat and generating depravity over multiple turns.
Plus they have a few interesting ways to generate mortal wounds (Beasts of Nurgle, Bloab Rotspawn). Could even get a GUO in the ally limit.
That said would probably avoid plaguebearers as too reliant on faction buffs.
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Been thinking of getting into Hedonites recently. How does this look for a 1k starter army?
Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Lurid Haze Invaders Host (Host of Chaos)
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty
Bladebringer, Herald on Exalted Chariot (265)*
- General
- Command Trait: Skin-taker
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Host Option: General
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Sigvald, Prince of Slaanesh (265)*
- Host Option: General
5 x Hellstriders with Hellscourges (135)*
11 x Blissbarb Archers (180)*
8 x Iron Golems (75)*
8 x Iron Golems (75)*
*Battle Regiment
Total: 995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 53
Drops: 1
1 drop, lurid haze, exalted chariot + sigvald as hammers, hellstriders for mobility/screens, iron golems for objectives/depravity, archers for some ranged threat
Also considered swapping Flaming Weapon for the levitate/healing spell, or running the same list in Godseekers.
Wasnt sure about Grand Strategy, doesn't seem like there are any obvious options for us.
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Looks like a solid list, very durable and gotrek will do work.
I'd say it's weaknesses are a lack of mobility, ranged power projection, and the fact you'll almost always be going first.
Regarding possible changes I'm not sure if you really need the second 20 ironbreaker block? You already have 3 anvils in the phoenix, vindictors and 20 ironbreakers and will only be able to use all-out-defence on one of them. Could consider gyrocopter/allopex/aetherwings plus something with a bit more hitting power greatswords/irondrakes/evocators?
Other question is the investment in emerald lifeswarm with just 2 spell casters per turn. If you're consistently casting mystic shield (phoenix) and wings (mage) its a bit uncertain when you'll be able to use it, especially against opponents with strong magic.
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This artwork is 🔥
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Thought up a couple lists, need some help deciding what to build towards. Which one do you think would be better and/or more fun?
Option 1: Ironrach + Gotrek + Turtle + 12 eels + 2 sharks
Pros: All the hammers, 3 drops, double net shark, nice mix of eels, tried & tested competitive
Cons: gotrek will definitely get nerfed at some point, lack of bodies/woundsQuoteAllegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Ionrach
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty
Akhelian King (230) in Battle Regiment
- General
- Command Trait: Emissary of the Deep Places
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Voidchill Darkness
Gotrek Gurnisson (435) in Vanguard
- Allies
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155) in Battle Regiment
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155) in Battle Regiment
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (195) in Battle Regiment
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (195) in Vanguard
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (125) in Battle Regiment
- Retarius Net Launcher
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (125) in Battle Regiment
- Retarius Net Launcher
Akhelian Leviadon (380) in Battle Regiment
- Mount Trait: Reverberating Carapace
Battle Regiment
Vanguard
Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 435 / 400
Wounds: 95Option 2: Feuthan + Tidecaster + Eidolon + Ellania/Ellathor + Turtle + 40 Namarti + 6 eels
Pros: All the rr1s, teleporting twins, +1 hit +1 wound +1 save bubbles, bodies, fun/weird playstyle, 2x Start Collecting
Cons: Might be trying to do too many different things, hard countered by spell-doms, not sure about grand strategyQuoteAllegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Fuethan
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs: Indomitable
Isharann Tidecaster (105)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Lore of the Deeps: Abyssal Darkness
Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Storm (330)
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Ellania and Ellathor, Eclipsian Warsages (285)
- Allies
10 x Namarti Thralls (120)
10 x Namarti Thralls (120)
20 x Namarti Reavers (230)
- Reinforced x 1
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155)
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155)
3 x Aetherwings (45)
- Allies
Akhelian Leviadon (380)
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)
Total: 1985 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 330 / 400
Wounds: 111Cheers for any replies.
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2 hours ago, KrispyXIV said:
Disagreed - I remember the days of trying to play a magic army when Dispel Scrolls were a thing, and they're toxic as hell when your primary game plan is already dependent on having proper positioning, making a casting roll, and the not having your spell unbound.
Generally, there's a once per game point where a big spell really needs to have an impact - and allowing EVERYONE the guaranteed ability to take that away from you is the worst feeling in the world.
Reigning in the current top casters is a reasonable goal/request - giving everyone the ability to flat out ruin any spell they want with no RNG is not a good solution.
If they bring back the Dispel Scroll, it needs to be significantly reigned in from their historical power. An extra unbind attempt a turn (anti-tome) or once per game reroll on an unbind check maybe.
The problem is that doesn't really fix the issue - any solution to the mega casters just makes the less mega casters even worse.
Maybe its NPE, but IMO if an army falls apart because it can't deal with failing a big spell once a game maybe it's just not a very good list. Any good army should be flexible and I also can't think think of any spells like that in the current meta?
It does address the issue too. The value of a dispell scroll vs mega casters is much more than vs normal wizards. Plus if it's an artefact you have to include the opportunity cost of taking it vs other items.
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A one-time dispel scroll universal artefact would definitely be useful
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9 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:
Oh wow, I never though about using aetherwings allies before. I always go straight for their tanky or shooty Stormcast units to add survivability.
Yeah I'm a big fan of aetherwings and will pretty much always take at least one unit. They're cheap and versatile, plus you can model them as crabs, fish, seahorses etc.
I find one of the problems with IDK is they don't really have any decent<100 point, sit-on-objective type units or chaff. Your eels are too expensive to fill this role and namarti just aren't very good. I guess allopexes could do it but they still too cost too much IMO.
Aetherwings are ideal for small chaff walls, screening deepstrikes, and objective grabbing. They tend to be very low target priority so good in turns 3/4 to move onto the points your eels have cleared out. Plus at 45pts it really doesnt matter if they die.
Only downside is they're taking up your limited ally quota and there's quite a lot of decent ally options now.
Tree-revs and khainite shadowstalkers could also be good. But I dont have any experience with these and they cost a bit more.
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Been trying to come up with a list that goes heavy into Namarti Reavers as the triple shot Unleash Hell seems like it could have gas.
Enclave: Dhom-hain
Warlord Battalion
1x Eidolon of the Storm (330)
A: Cloud of Midnight
1x Lotan (75)
1x Soul Render (90)
A: Arcane Tome - Tide of Fear
3x Ishlaen Guard (155)
3x Ishlaen Guard (155)
Battle Regiment
Soul Scryer (140)
General
CT - High Priest
Prayer - Curse
10x Reavers (115)
Battleline
20x Reavers (230)
Battleline
20x Reavers (230)
Battleline
3x Aetherwing (45)
Allies
3x Aetherwing (45)
Allies
1x Leviadon (380)
Points: 1990
Wounds: 129
Drops: 5Full buffs looks like rapid fire (3 shots), +1 hit (leviadon), rroll 1 (lotann), 6's mortal (curse prayer), +1 wound (eidolon), rroll monster wounds (dom-hain) and resurrection (render).
A unit of 20 Reavers will be looking at 15 wounds and 10 mortals against a 4+ save. Stacking AOA and Leviadon can mitigate the -1hit of unleash hell so you can get a decent amount of damage in.
At the same time the ishlaen, leviadon, eidolon and aetherwings are running interference tagging enemies in combat. The eidolon and leviadon are decent hammers also.
Think Soulsnare Shackles and/or an Annointed on Frostheart (+alpha beast battalion with leviadon) would also work well in this list. Also not decided on CT and the 2nd Artefact after Cloud of Midnight. High priest seemed like a way to make the curse more consistent.
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Interesting now we can ally the phoenix temple units from CoS. What do people think of bringing Frostheart Phoenixes?
Seems like a pretty solid choice and they actually got cheaper. Very hard to kill with the 4+ aftersave and hero healing. The permanent -1 wound aura looks useful and not sure we have many existing ways to debuff.
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IDK is getting some nerfs but nothing gamebreaking.
Coherency means big eel units are much less likely to see play and so will probably return to a more 3-man MSU style.
Namarti thralls and reavers with big bases and 1" reach are even less useful now.
As our only behemoth the leviadon gets some new monster abilities which is nice.
Two big impacts from the no more stacking rules. (1) With the king/volturnos limited to a single lord of tides ability, we'll no longer have the +3 attack fights first eels. (2) no save stack means no more 2+ unrendable eels. Admittedly these combos were pretty OP but it's not like IDK have a lot of competitive alternatives atm.
The tome is pretty old so hopefully we get a new book fairly soon that'll open up some new units and playstyles.
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Want: CoS vs Hobgob Starter, New Doom Diver, longer-term roadmaps
Expect: AOS3, aggy twitch chat, tv trailer
Dont Want: GW Severith fur-suits, any more elves
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I'm looking to make a semi-competitive 1k starter mortal list.
I've come up with 2 options. Which one do you think is better?
Option 1: tanky hero, mobility, independent hitting units
Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut (160)
- General
- Command Trait: Disciple of Khorne
Bloodsecrator (120)
- Banner of Khorne (Artefact): Banner of Rage
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
- Reaver Blades
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (160)
- Bloodglaives
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (160)
- Bloodglaives
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Goreslick Blades
9 x Untamed Beasts (70)
- Allies
Total: 990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 70 / 400
Wounds: 87Option 2: maximise attacks, warrior anvil, combo heroes
Aspiring Deathbringer (80)
- General
- Bloodaxe and Wrath Hammer
- Command Trait: Violent UrgencyBloodsecrator (120)
- Banner of Khorne (Artefact): Banner of Rage
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
15 x Chaos Warriors (270)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (160)
- Bloodglaives
5 x Wrathmongers (140)
9 x Untamed Beasts (70)
- Allies
Total: 980 / 2000
Allies: 70 / 400
Wounds: 99thanks
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Seems like quite the consensus then, a mix of game design and sales.
I think most of the FOMO and ebay price gouging stuff doesnt apply in the same way to Age of Sigmar as the majority of these warbands are still available, they've released characters separately in the past, and the regular points updates would be able to mitigate any major mistakes.
I was listening to the warhammer weekly podcast yesterday and thought their idea of designing these units for power pairs would do a great deal to make them a bit more useable. i.e. heros providing buffs to unit keywords that don't already see much use. I think the example they used was an order hero that could buff flagellants.
This doesnt risk pushing them into 'overpowered' or even particularly strong territory but would open up list building options and maybe even push players towards buying kits they might not otherwise.
While this would be mainly effective in factions with lots of warscrolls, it's better than the current state where we have lots of unique characters, lore and sculpts not being utilised by 95% of players.
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Reading through the recent Cursed City warscrolls and seeing the various Underworlds and Warcry warscrolls over the years, it seems that the vast majority of these units are underpowered compared to their battletome equivalents and therefore don't see much play on the tabletop.
Do you think this is an active design choice by the developers at GW or just a normal result of the internal faction power variability?
I cant see much of a reason for doing this but it seems to be a consistent trend across all the grand alliances. Improving these to be viable options would only enhance the likelihood of players transitioning from their boxed game forces (typically smaller investments) into full Age of Sigmar armies. Plus a lot of them are great sculpts so it would be nice to see them getting more action.
Thoughts?
As always there are a few notable exceptions: Khainite Shadowstalkers, Iron Golems, Morgwaeth, etc.
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20 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
Personally, I think this list slaps and it's something that can only be done in Settler's Gain. I might build this one if I can find the motivation to paint all those fiddly foot units
Very cool list. Only thing I'm not convinced on is the regular luminark and the units of only 5 pistoliers. Outside hallowheart or settlers gain battalion I'm not sure it's worth it for the 270 points.
For the same cost you could have:
a hysh battlemage (same protection spell)
5 more pistoliers (giving one of the unit actual punch and wounds)
geminids (mitigate some of the luminark mortal wound loss and adds debuff flexibility, loreseeker can deepstrike and cast this empowered right in the centre of the enemy)
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Different tools for different targets.
The difficulty with the volley gun it competes with freeguild handgunners for a similar damage output but without the versatility (battleline, bodies for objectives, stand-shoot).
In general rocket battery is more popular for a few reasons, but it NEEDS to have sufficient support to work properly.
Range: 36" is huge this means you can threaten turn 1 and also leave it safely protected in your backfield
-2 Rend w/ D3 damage: This is the big difference. -2 rend is fairly uncommon and can target high armor enemies a lot of your units cant deal with outside mortal wounds.
Synergy: lord ordinator, greywater fastness (battalion, prayer), tempest eye (hawkeye), engineer, rocket salvo ability, hurricanum
Really you need 2-3 buffs of these to make it worthwhile but once you do it's not too difficult to get hitting on 2+ which makes them way more reliable. The hurricanum is close to an auto-include in a lot of lists anyway.
If you're going in on this I'd suggest going all-in with the battalion, if you just take 1 or 2 without support it's not going to be very points-efficient or impactful.
Overall artillery is cool but expensive.
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Yes in general they are bad.
But there are exceptions. Freeguild on griffon, both annointeds on phoenix and dreadlord on dragon are pretty decent in the right list. Sure they could do with coming down 20-30pts across the board but overall they have decent utility, synergy and strong defence.
I also think you're severely underestimating the tankiness of frostheart phoenixes. With just mystic shield you've got him to 3+4++ rr 1s, then easily buffed to 2+ with artefacts (armor mallus, iron oak) or allegiance abilities (tempest eye). The rr wounds is also a great command ability for blocks of PG which is quite rare. Reducing that to 220pts as you suggest would be extremely OP.
Sure we dont have any mawkrusha/terrorgheist-level damage dealers, but saying they're all useless would be incorrect.
That said, the hydra/kharibdyss, steam tanks, BM on griffon, and sorcerer on BD all do really need a boost. Which is a shame as they're all cool models.
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Think I'm going to start Gloomspite Gitz this year. Models are great and keen to try something different. Probably going to focus on moonclans, how does this look for a 1k list?
Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
Leaders
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- General
- Command Trait: Boss Shaman
- Lore of the Moonclans: Itchy Nuisance
Madcap Shaman (80)
- Artefact: Moonface Mommet
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork
Battleline
40 x Stabbas (260)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
- 6x Barbed Nets - 1x Moonclan Flag Bearers - 1x Badmoon Icon Bearers
20 x Stabbas (130)
- Stabbas & Moon Shields
- 3x Barbed Nets - 1x Badmoon Icon Bearers
Units
5 x Loonsmasha Fanatics (140)
10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)
6 x Sneaky Snufflers (70)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Scuttletide (30)
Total: 1000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 105
Tried to make it decently competitive and synergistic. 2 spellcasters. 60 grot infantry to recycle with loonshrine (is this enough?). Snufflers to sit on home object and buff units. Fanatics and bounders to take out high profile targets. Bounderz for mobility. Scuttletide is just good. Cave-shaman ct basically makes it a more versatile loonboss.
Other version was to maybe cut the madcap and snufflers for another unit of fanatics. More hitting power but loses the Mommet and attack buffs.
Criticism welcomed.
Also some advice on how to play the fanatics/teleport would be good. Is it better to use smaller units which dont matter if it dies, or just go all in and try to teleport the buffed 40 and hope for recycling?
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Potential more aggressive alternative.
Cut: soulscream bridge, unit of 10 phoenix guard, annointed on foot.
Add: second annointed on flamespyre phoenix, upgrade guard to handgunners
The second phoenix makes the reborn ability more reliable, provides more offensive power, and their high movement counters the loss from the bridge. You pop a spell near them and you've got 2 very aggressive mobile units on 3+4+, potentially 10 mortal wounds with Wake of Fire, and every game you should expect at least 1 to return. One of them will likely still be within range of the phoenix guard for their ability and they can also buff each other.
Why cut the bridge? One of the main benefits of the bridge is power projection. It's typically used with iron drakes/handgunners/sisters of watch. You can teleport and in the same turn delete a key enemy threat. In your list you have the teleport but little power projection. You can cast a few spells but your units are largely just sitting in front of the enemy waiting to get shot or charged in the next turn. Also as phoenix guard are really durable you'd expect them to be able to survive as they move onto objectives.
The issue with the small 10 phoenix guard is that they fulfil largely the same role as the 30. A unit of 10 is too expensive for a screen and there are better/cheaper options if you want a solid countercharge unit (greatswords / executioners).
Handgunners are much better than the standard shield guys. Still effective screens but can dish out some damage with shooting and fire again when they're charged. Of course they'll melt in combat, but so do normal freeguild.
Plus 2 phoenixes is twice as cool and fits with your fire theme.
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3 mages + general + battalion seems a bit overkill in 1k. 570pts in just characters lacks flexibility and you may struggle holding objectives.
Greatswords are solid blenders especially with the recent points drop.
Helstorm arent great on their own but they can do well if you have a bunch with buffs.
I'd probably drop a mage and the battalion. Then maybe add a unit of handgunners and another 10 greatswords.
Alternatively if you want to keep most of the magic I'd consider Sisters of the Thorn or a Knight Incantor. Still wizards but these have a bit more utility.
What other chaos units work best with maggotkin
in Maggotkin of Nurgle
Posted
Reviving this thread as an enjoyer of mixed chaos armies.
I've been thinking about our options and believe there are a few interesting choices. I've ranked below in order of how 'competitive' I think they are, with a few ideas on army composition:
GUO + Krondspine Incarnate of Ghur
You dont really see many Incarnates but I think Nurgle may be one of the best armies for them. They're very strong in melee and I think they have some play in either plaguebearer host or blightlord spam lists. Bonded to the GUO it's very unlikely to go wild and provides a casting bonus (rare in Nurgle). The levelling mechanic means it's very tricky to kill and requires multiple turns. It's got some high rend (-3) and is fast. The aura of reroll run and charge mitigates our poor mobility, and the no retreat aura means enemies cant escape the grind (although negative synergy with Beasts so avoid those).
Furies
Allied from STD, furies occasionally pop up in a number of competitive chaos armies. They're fast, flying and 6 models which is decent for objectives. The retreat from combat mechanic is very useful and the survivability of nurgle troops means it feels less risky to pick them to escape. Overall strong choice but probably 1 or max 2 units.
Mindstealer Sphiranx
Another STD ally. Provides an always-strikes-last effect which works well with MSU lists that have several units engaging a larger enemy threat. Cheap monster for battle tactics and reasonably fast.
Sigvald
Good independent distraction carnifex. Fast, survivable and a good assassin piece. Cheaper/weaker alternatives include Masque and Valkia (I like the idea of an all flying blightlord spam with Valkia).
Contorted Epitome
Strong double caster with rerolls. Warscroll spell gives you reroll all hits against D3 enemy units which helps guarantee your disease point tally. Very fast and reasonably survivable with 2+ protection from mortals and a weird 50/50 avoid melee rule. Add flaming weapon for some melee threat.
Flesh Hounds
Cheapish mobile chaff with utility unbind ability. Decent if you're relying on Orghotts/LoA and lacking wizards.
Untamed Beast / Ungor Raiders
Cheap chaff with pregame move. Ungor raiders also have some shooting phase synergy if you're taking Bloab.
Great Bray Shaman
Cheap hero for battalions. Good warscroll spell to pull enemies off objectives or generally bring them into range of your slow troops.
Chimera / Cockatrice
Cheap fast, flying monster options to double down on mortal wound spam. The chimera is also surprisingly capable in melee.
Quick disclaimer that if you've got 300 points to spare, the 'right' choice is probably always just another maggoth lord. But these are some fun off-key choices to keep your opponent guessing.