Borsuk

That might be the switch. I was thinking which is better - canon or drill, and I fell like drill is to gimmicky, and canon seems to be more reliable. I guess taking escort wing can help, but I'm still not convinced. Have you get any good results with drill?

Been there, done that I think we need to decide if we rather want to get rid of Loc ASAP or focus on the shooters. This - 1 to hit for shooting is really cumbersome.

Can you share with us what were your match-ups and general list building idea? Thanks for some insight.

Well I guess gw try to make fun to play ko, but are afraid that truly shooty army will be op and this way we're stuck with this "stupid sandwich". I really don't care atm, I played them when they were Z-tier, I will definitely play them when they're fun to play, sky pirate, steam punk - tier.

Ow man, I'm with you on this one. Why they couldn't at least squeeze in there those are just guidelines for fluff? It used to be my favorite and one of better ports and now I feel like choosing them is shot to the foot. And one more general thought after reading today's discussion. I think it is ok to like new tome, enjoy an army, but stillcriticize things we don't like. It is fine. This book is not terrible by any means, but it's not perfect.

I agree, we need a reason to disembark troops and it would be shame to keep models in box and pretend they here. On the other hand some abilities (not all abilities) might be used from ships, even logic wise or fluff wise.

You get that right.

Yeah, tell me about it. I think Barak mhornar might be the worst skyport in the book. Apart from the footnote and useful I think artefact, they have nothing. But on the other hand, I will cope with that. While I started to play KO they were already considered one of worse armies in AoS, and I had a lot of fun with them, and pretty good win ratio. I think I can have even more with better tome. I wish that there would be less antysynergies, but I have not become sky pirate, because army was broken, but to have some fun and I get plenty of it.

Yeah, I forget to tell what I meant. We used to have 6 ammendments, footnotes and guidelines, that's what I meant. I agree with you for most parts, and usually I build my list around some idea, or port and tbh thanks to new battline options I never struggle with minimal tax. I consider this improvement. I just mentioned some of my thoughts. Tome is not flawless, but most certainly it's not terrible.

I agree and I'm genuinely happy that we at last have new battleline options, and I belive that KO right now is much more fun to play than it used to be, but unfortunately I also agree that our list building is still pretty restrictive: - ww want to have option to choose if we want to go first, but that means we need to take battalion, which to be honest we don't have much. - to make batalion worth our time usually we need to build whole list around it and there's not enough space to add something interesting - it's not a bad idea to build our own skyport, but then we need to sacrifice some good gimmicks of fixed ports, and on top of that, while building a port we have 50% less options to choose from - then again we can refuse to take any batalion, but we are left with milion drops and we need to hope for the best I played some test games and I think KO is awesome, and it is in much better place than it used to be before. I really enjoy playing them, new rules and stuff, but I think gw is still afraid that KO might be overpowered and that's why there are some antysynergies, redundant abilities etc. I mostly play to have fun and that's why i'm trying to make some unique list like Grundstok themed, shiples or full infantry , I will see how it works. My main issue is that I want to have everything : more than two heros, some transport, some objective grabbers, support but it is impossible. Even though we have some new battline options I still found Arkanauts essential. We need bodies. Riggers and Gunhaulers aren't meant for objective holding, but for grabbing them. Same goes for thunderers. Sure, they can pack a punch and are pretty durable, but I want them to be out of combat and focus their fire on whatever I found fit. Also I think that they are still better with full rifles. Keep you distance rule is nice, but to make it work you need to: take special weapons, skipped full potential shooting for at least one turn, than hope enemy charge you and don't wipe out you till your next shooting phase. I'd live to see 10-20 man squad thunderers with +1 attack, +1 to hit reroling failed wound rolls at - 1 to hit but this seems to me so situational. I will try to be inventive with KO because there are tons of options, they are improved and fun to play, but new tome is far from perfect.

I was against same tzeentch nonsense. Friend gave me the first turn and I had to deep strike my all force and just like you needed to focus all my shooting (ironclad carabiners shot some horrors, but attacking horrors makes them only stronger) to take out LoC. Then he double turned me, and even though I was playing urbaz and used two shares of gold each turn to survive shooting, he charged me and second turn ironclad, endrinmaster and 10 thunderers were no more. Somehow I bearly won in 5th round thanks to good arcanauts positioning, riggers screening and his bad rolls, but I found that game ridiculous. KO was pretty good tzeentch counter, but right now tzeentch outperform us in almost all ways. My friend is playing mostly tzeeentch so I might have some insight in the future, but at the moment I think that we need to keep our distance, snipe out heroes ASAP, have some bodies for objective grabbing and hope for the best. You might consider Barak nar ironsquad command hero heavy list for dispels, but that leaves us with less bodies and firepower. I love my KO and playing aos on hard is funny, but looking at tzeentch who gets -1 to hit, +1 rend, awesome spell casting, tons of battalions, great battline options with durability, good melee (tzaangors) or absurd shooting volume with some really easy achievable synergies makes me think are't we supposed to be shooty army? I feel like gw gave us shorter stick in aether war and we really need to work for our success. Nevertheless i’ll do my best. To the victor, the spoils.

Tbh i think Endrinriggers are still more reliable. They have less attacks, but on average they deal slightly more damage than wardens and still can shoot after fly high. On top of that they repair ships. Wardens are great at objective grabbing and at delivering some support . I think they are awesome in Barak zon.

Wow, this is some cool idea.

I agree. I was really surprised we didn't get any lore or fyrelayers /khorne like endless prayers. It would be so lore accurate. I believed that GW will give us some drones es and aether-science lore. After all khemist, endrinmaster and navigator are scholars, that is kind of witchcraft. Can you imagine casting aether-balloon drones and let's say they could give us something like overwatch ability or something. But at least spell in the bottle is a fun idea. On the other hand I agree that we don't need any terrain piece, because ships are thousands times better than any terrain in game.

They are very similar. Brokk is slightly more melee oriented with +1 more saw attack and some mortal wounds on charge. He also have different command ability, which unfortunately only works for Barak nar. I think I would go with Endrinmaster, because it can cover more roles, unlock balloons for battle line and is slightly cheaper. Of course it always depends on your strategy.

I'm sure you can come up with some sweet conversion. Ko boxes come with a lot of spare bits it shouldn't be hard.

Well this is some interesting idea how to use mhornar. It could work for some very nasty alfa strike.

No kidding, opportunistic privateers are technically old zilfin artefact, but back in the day it was very good. It would make more sense if it allowed to disembark and charge units or something. I forgot about the footnote, it's nice indeed, but still not compensate for overall average skyport. I also miss those are just guidelines. It matched mhornar fluff so well.

Is it only me, or barak mhornar is bad? It used to be my favorite skyport, but bravery debuff isn't that good, there's no direct buff for your guys, running and shooting while still good can be easily replaced by fly high, and once awesome opportunistic privateers is now removed by ability which is pretty pointless. Artefact is interesting, but not worth taking whole port. Can you guys find any utility for barak mhornar?

I think it is nice to consider at least 1 skyhook for wardens (for +1 charge) and grapnel launcher (for disabling retreat) in bigger units. It works like musicians and banners in other armies and gives you a punch in shooting phase (they pistols have short range). You can take there's no trading with some people footnote. It allows you to retreat and charge once per game. It's not perfect, but still solid.

I've found most of the new rules, but I can't find new traits, artifacts and endrinworks. Could you share it with me by any chance? Thanks.

But warscroll say it actually is: Instead of making a normal move with this model, if there are less than 7 wounds currently allocated to this model, you can say that it will fly high (it can retreat and disengage). Though I also think that would be dumb.

Ok, that sounds better. Can we still take additional footnote? I am excited for the new battletome, but I still have this feeling that we need to make a lot of adjustments and there are bunch of restrictions in using our abilities. Don't get me wrong, this makes game interesting, but I'm just wondering if our battletome isn't too restrictive. I guess we need some testing to know this.

Well I have 2500 points of painted Barak Mhornar. It's sad but this port looks kinda bleak next to the other ones. I might try it out, but almost all Mhornar abilities can be used outside of the port and done better. Footnote and artifact seems to be interesting, but bravery debuff is pretty meh.

So our new, best ability is pretty easily neutered. It looks like NH, ID and anything that can charge us with flyers will be pretty hard match up for us.