Duke Eligos
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Posts posted by Duke Eligos
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3 minutes ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:
Here’s hoping then that those sky battle rules take off! Love the sky theme, don’t get me wrong, just makes it hard for them to become central to the “big story” which seems to largely be ground based.
Who knows though. One edition’s release theory doesn’t determine the next and there’s commentary about expanding factions so maybe you won’t need to be as central to the Ghur narrative thus go round.
One of the major new developments in the Mortal Realms' narrative is the Cursed Skies. The SCE already shrugged the problem off with their new armour, but the skies are still cursed across the Realms.
It would be painfully easy to give them narrative weight since they are the dominant power in the skies of the setting.
5 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:You hold grudges as a Ko player?
Are you certain that you’re playing the right dwarfs?
Jokes aside, the kharadron do have Grudgehalls and the Kharadron Code has a grudge-clause to grant Kharadron Rune of Marks
I'm an old dwarf fan who grew to prefer the innovative take on dwarven tropes that KO have. There isn't a lot of unique dwarf factions in major fantasy IPs (I'd even argue that KO are the only one).. so losing it because GW doesn't know what to do with the old tropes that we've known for decades is soul-crushing.
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54 minutes ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:
To be clear, as big a fan of Monty Python as I may be my desire for Dwarf soup is not simply always looking on the bright side of life but a proactive desire based on owning both factions and loving the potential their combination would create.
As importantly I actually see it as the most direct way to get more models. As others have pointed out soup doesn’t clearly or cleanly differentiate who gets more new models. The most obvious factor appears to be… importance to the big story. Slaanesh awakens? They get lots of new models. Nagash goes on offensive against Chaos. Get OBR as new faction. Teclis takes the fight to Nagash. Get LRL. Nagash loses the fight loosening his grip on his legions. Get Soulblight. Age of Destruction. Get Cruel Boyz.
To be clear, I recognize the models come first and story second. That said I think the model makers have an inspiration loop with the narrative. Could KO suddenly leap to the forefront of the big story on own? Maybe. But a massive story about reuniting and reclaiming to me seems much more likely than that…
I'm not interested in a story about reuniting and reclaiming.
And reclaiming what exactly? The old Karaks? Why would I be interested in old crapy underground complexes when Sky-ports are cooler in every single way?
I'm interested in the skies of the Mortal Realms and how the Kharadron interact with them. Changing the focus to an underground reconquista completely changes the narrative and the setting in which my faction operates.
I don't mind the odd few mentions of Kharadron pillaging (not conquering) ancient karaks, but I want the main focus to remain on the skies of the Mortal Realms and the sky-ports.
I will also never own Fyreslayer or Dispossessed models, even more so if they drag my faction down... I hold grudges, believe it or not, and reducing the Kharadron to a soup tome is one hell of a grudge.
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2 minutes ago, Greybeard86 said:
Jeez! Have you even read my posts? I have no issue with people liking KO. I am just hypothesizing that this is a business decision coming from a company that has changed design and business plans around AoS factions. From fire and forget factions to continually supported. I think that’s a good move, overall!
I think we all need to realize that the lore is a reflection of what they want to sell, and written accordingly. They wanted to split apart hard dwarf factions so they made them very different in the lore. If they want to bring the, back, they ll smooth it out via lore too.
I do not like this whole retconning business or weird lore bends to push models. But I do very much prefer to have factions that work for decades, over the planned obsolescence of model ranges. Among other things, because that forces them to be a bit more consistent with releases and plan ahead, rules, models, and lore wise.
You're mistaking GW making small factions to see what sells and what doesn't for planned obsolescence.
They started by making smaller factions in order to populate the setting faster and to allow crazier ideas to come out. Then you see what sticks and build upon it later on. Unless you are considered a 'safer faction' like SCE (Space Marine).
At some point, the setting developed enough of an identity that they could build up meatier factions. Give it time for a Kharadron second wave... I wouldn't mind waiting another 3-5 years if I do get to keep my faction as it is.
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3 minutes ago, King Under the Mountain said:
At this point I would rather have Fyreslayers perish then to drag Kharadon down with them into soup hell.
I say that someone who loves Slayers, think Fyreslayers have a lot of potential and also whose 1st AoS army was Fyreslayers.Better dead than desecrated.
16 minutes ago, Greybeard86 said:I think we are coming to discuss from two different perspectives. I am not arguing that, as things stand, the two factions blend well together. They do not! But that was GW going out of their way to make sure they didn’t. They picked steam punk and slayer and pulled them apart; they did so to get two distinct factions with smallish ranges. The goal, much like other 1st gen OS factions likely was to fire and forget them.
However, now mid game GW decided to keep all these factions. But they cannot maintain them because there were never plans to make that many factions into full rosters, likely it isn’t even feasible. So something that doesn’t belong together (because it was designed that way) must be put together. The alternative likely being death by neglect.
What can GW do? Same as they did and end times and killed United dwarves now they can get the White Dwarf to epically reunite the race. Stranded cousins brought together for some big reasons. Then, this separation can be part of the living history of the faction, and those factions integrate like the old guilds. The engineers / traders guild = KO, the fanatical slayers guild = KO.
Is it forced? Yes! Is it likely going to happen? If we are not wrong and this is GW plan to save the factions destined (designed) to perish, then probably it is.
There are many hints of new Kharadron units on the way, be it from their battletome (Black Marine and Copperhat) or the more recent BR:Be'lakor (shock-vessel and single-pilot fighter craft). You're straight-up inventing that KO won't get new models unless they get dissolved into a soup tome.
Is it so hard for people to conceive that people can enjoy having factions being their own thing and how merging them with others can ruin their interest in said factions?
QuoteStranded cousins brought together for some big reasons. Then, this separation can be part of the living history of the faction, and those factions integrate like the old guilds. The engineers / traders guild = KO, the fanatical slayers guild = KO.
I'd rather if they killed the faction I love, both lore and model wise, than having this ****** happen.
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12 minutes ago, Doko said:
Its so easy,all those kharadrons haters of soup.
Dont get nothing new and continue playing only kharadrons units the same than ironjaws oe bonespliters can play without big wagg.
I dont get all the problems and ranting,if you like soup play soup,if you dont like then play only monofaction all is posible
Not getting anything new because of a duardin soup is part of the problem believe it or not. The other part is losing the content that has to be removed for 2-3 factions to fit in 1 Battletome.
We can already play with every Duardin model in Barak-Thryng, a duardin soup book doesn't give us anything new.
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19 minutes ago, Doko said:
The excuse kharadrons and fyreslayers are diferent style and cant be souped is ******.
In fantasy dwarfs were all together and had old nordic dwarfs with low armor(warrior), heavy armor(actual ironbreakers),slayers,the steampunks gyros and artillery.
So in fantasy the dwarfs were dispossesed,fyreslayers and kharadrons all together and was cool and great.
Im happy to be soup and i hope gw finnally do it because fyreslayers and kharadron should have been in the same book since the beggining
In Fantasy Goblins, Orcs and Giants were all together. Why not unite them while you're at it?
Old Dwarves didn't have Magmadroth, their artillery wasn't steampunk in any way shape or form and the Gyrocopters have a completely different aesthetic to Kharadron skyvessels.
The only thing those factions share is their race. The point of the Kharadron is that they AREN'T classic dwarfs. Combining them to be a part of a global classic duardin force ruins what I like the most about them.
I like that they are off doing their own thing and gave up on old dwarf tropes and aesthetic.
The only way to be happy with a duardin soup is to either don't like the current duardin factions, not care enough about lore and model aesthetic or to be desperate enough to settle for garbage.
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What I want in an army is for it to represent a coherent culture/civilisation that tells a captivating story that lets my imagination go wild.
The problem with souping everything for convenience sake is that those things are often the first things to be affected.
There's a big difference between souping factions whose models were designed to be of the same culture/civilisation (like Skavens and Ogors) and doing it with factions who were designed on their own with no concern about fitting in other armies (like KO, FS, IDK and DoK).
The closest thing to uniting the Duardin that GW has done in the past is merging all the Old World Elves in End Times: Khaine... and I expect the fans of the factions to react similarly to how Elf fans reacted to ETK. Those who don't care about the lore and aesthetic identity will be happy to have more things to play with, while the rest will be fuming for years to come.
Tldr; I want factions to be divided by culture instead of their race.
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None of the Kharadron Battletomes mentions a potential union with other Duardin forces.
The White Dwarf story about the Kharadron also does not mention any need for Kharadron to unite with other duardin forces.
The Duardin question is very different from what GW did with Orruks. We are talking about an insane amount of build-up and preparation for what is to come with Grungni. GW never put that much effort into releases without a considerable amount of new models. If the Duardin were to be put into one Battletome it would just have been dropped out of nowhere.
It's well known that no one who plays the any of the current duardin factions wants a combined Duardin tome.
It'll either be a new Duardin faction or a slap in the face of Duardin fans, forever relegating the duardin factions to useless background noise that will never get second waves of models.
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52 minutes ago, SirSalabean said:
It’s all quite funny as this poll stemmed from an aelves vs dwarves discussion from the rumour thread... I think aelves are clearly the best 😂
This only holds water if you take into accounts the least popular Duardin faction and disregard the fact that Aelves are getting more support atm than any other fantasy race.
I mean we are literally in a narrative entirely centered on Aelven gods.
Hell, even if Morathi just got an entire narrative shaping campaign book for her, that DoK got the latest versus boxset and are presently being hyped for their newest battletome…. Even with all that they aren’t “more popular” than the Kharadron Overlords. Why such?
I personally prefer Duardin over Aelves, the difference is that I don’t try to prove that one is “better” than the other since I realise that those tropes attract different peoples and that people interest in things is heavily influenced by the amount of efforts put into any given faction.
As for Fyreslayers, I honestly think that what holds back the army is that the dual Hearthguard kit should never have been made. It doesn’t add anything to the faction.
If they weren’t a thing, we would be speculating about what type of cool elite Spartan berserker duardin would come next. It would also be easier to tolerate an army with limited aesthetic if it only had one battleline and a monster (plus heroes).
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4 hours ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:
I've seen a number of surveys like this where Fyreslayers score extremely poorly. This may be controversial but I think the best solution here is not to give them more models. You don't sink money into a loser. They should, at best, merge them into a combined Duardin book. It isn't just the number of options that causes them to score low. It is the visual design. There are other low kit armies that score much better in appeal and use.
I don't like people talking about a combined Duardin book, mainly because it implies combining the Kharadron with other factions.
I know that most people mean Dispossessed + Fyreslayers when they talk about that possibility (even more plausible considering the unification teases all came from the Fyreslayer Bt and weren't included in the latest KO Bt), but it's always annoying to not take the time to mention it.
I'm not surprised at all by the placement of the Kharadron, they always seem to rank 4th or higher in popularity/favorite faction. What's impressive is that they managed to create such a considerable following without getting that much model support. The mere ingenuity of their concept and their top quality lore and models seem to be more than enough.
My biggest surprise is SoB, that army is still very recent so they should be way higher than that.
Hedonites, DoK and LRL do benefit from current hype to some extent. LRL is nonetheless a popular army, notably because they managed to grab High Elves fans.
Hedonites' placement seems very bad considering the huge model release and attention they are getting.
I also think that the survey was too vague and it makes the data's insight limited.
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Tossed into the Mawpot! Soup Armies Thoughts and Feelings?
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
The Kharadron didn't follow Grungni (Gromthi) in BR:Be'lakor. Recent lore blurbs hint at both unification and separation in regards to KO.
I still think it's likely, but I think the fact that the most recent hint was followed by saying that the IDK and DoK were united in purpose (aka more united than KO and FS) means that I take it with a grain of salt.
Honestly, I'm not sure that Duardin are going to show up in any significant way soon. 3rd Edition will retain a focus on SCE and Destruction for a bit, then Sylvaneth will probably be on the rise. We either get a soup tome with no impact that doesn't affect the story or we wait some more. The Kharadron battletome is still very recent and in very good shape imo. Don't see why you'd invest resources on factions when your main goal is to minimise the resources you give them by uniting them.
The best-case scenario is that the Grotbag Scuttlers come out alongside a KO second wave.