Zeblasky
-
Posts
295 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Gallery
Store
Downloads
Blogs
Events
Posts posted by Zeblasky
-
-
You know, seeing another kinda generic bunch of models made for Stormcast (archers look pretty cool with capes and without masks though, not gonna lie, this new direction is much better) makes me wish GW would stop making models for them at least until the next edition and instead would give existing ones better rules and would give new models to factions that are desperately in need of those.
Stromcast are not even close to Space marines status, so giving them so many redundant models hurts both AoS as a whole and Stormcast players in particular. The more models your faction have, the bigger chance for them to be redundant, forgotten or even squatted over time. And considering how fast Stormcast range gets expanded and without much of internal rebalancing, this does not look good for them.
-
6
-
2
-
-
You know, I've just realised another good combo for this city - using Annointed on Fire Phoenix as General with a Cunning Foe trait. This is the only way to get Retreat and Charge in CoS, meaning that, besides getting that great trait bonus, you're also dealing Mortal Wounds with Wake of Fire every battle round. And with Phoenix mobility, you can have a good target selection. So this makes Fire variant much better than Frost one in this City. And if you manage to get a Rebirth as well... Oh boy.
-
1
-
-
3 hours ago, BabaYaga667 said:
Not sure if this is the right place to post about this (I'm new to the website and this is my first post lol) but I wanted some feedback on a Settlers Gain list I have been working on for 3.0. I have been playing Living City and I really want some Lumineth in my army and this was the best way I could think to do it. Here is the list.
Annointed (General)
Command Trait: Strategic MastermindYndrasta, the Celestial Spear
Artifact: Blade of Leaping BronzeCelestial Hurricanum with Celestial Mage
Artifact: Silver Plated Wand10x Phoenix Guard (Battleline)
10x Phoenix Guard (Battleline)
10x Phoenix Guard (Battleline)
10x Sisters of the Watch
10x Vanari Auralan Sentinels
10x Vanari Auralan Sentinels
10x JudicatorsTotal 1995/2000
The strategy behind the army is to use the Celestial Hurricanum to buff the sentinels and the Judicators giving them all plus 1 to hit. Using the 24" and 30" ranges on the Sentials and Judicators should be able to provide decent missile support to the Melee troops. The Sisters are incredibly deadly when they don't move shooting 21 shots and doing mortal wounds on 6's. I can't find anywhere that says Yndrasta is a named character so I equpped her with an artifact that will give her 2 extra attacks on her main melee weapon. The Hurricanum will also be able to cast 2 spells and have plus 2 to all casting rolls. It will also give the sentinels plus one to cast their power of hysh spells. The Phoenix Guard are great in combat as they have a 4 up ward and also do 21 attacks in one unit. Yndrasta also makes it to where they wont have to take battle shock while in 12 " range of her..
Ahah, the part about Yndrasta not being a named character is funny, but it will be fixed in the next FAQ most likely. Using Hurricanum as a casting buff piece for Lumineth units would be quite a smart idea, but it buffs casting only for Collegiate Arcane Wizards. However Hurricanum itself gets +2 to casts here, so giving it a wand is a good idea. As the build itself... well, you do have a bit of everything and an aura of +1 to hit, which will be crucial for missile pieces. That aura has quite a small radious however, and you do want Hurricanum to be in range for shooting and casting.
Don't forget that now you can add some core or battlepack batalions in your build for free and get some nice bonuses from them. -
So, while we wait for FAQ on overwatch, it seems that due to 6.1 rule and warscrolls precedence over core rules, by RAW Sisters and Handgunners can Unleash Hell every time anyone charges near them. While it's unclear, if you can use actual UH CA only before the first overwatch gets triggered or at any time, I've decided to do some theorycrafting just for fun.
Enter 3.0 Handgunners. For the cost their damage is quite low (Irondrakes do ~30% more damage base and can be buffed much better), so their viability boils down to 2 strategies - MSU units with Long Rifles acting as pseudo Sentinels and blocks of 30 roleplaying as Prussian Musketeers. Let's try the latter and see what we can do.Save Handgunners attack without moving or double overwatch Handgunners double overwatch with Hurricanum Handgunners shooting with General CA Handgunners double overwatch with General CA Handgunners double overwatch with General and Hurricanum 2+ 4.59 6.89 5.74 8.61 11.48 3+ 6.89 10.33 8.61 12.92 17.22 4+ 9.19 13.78 11.48 17.22 22.96 5+ 11.48 17.22 14.35 21.53 28.7 6+ 13.78 20.67 17.22 25.83 34.44 - 13.78 20.67 17.22 25.83 34.44
First is simply how much damage Handgunners can do with a single unbuffed volley while standing still. Their double overwatch on 5+/3+ does the same damage as a single 3+/3+, so for a price of a single CP you can basically shoot another volley at approaching enemy. Solid, but not that impressive.
Second example is when Handgunners are supported with Hurricanum. First of all, Handgunners only lose +1 to hit when moving, so Hurricanum support gives them complete freedom of movement (unless they face debuffs to hit of course), which is quite important for them. Second, their double overwatch starts hitting on 4+, giving them much more damage output when charged.
Third and fourth examples are when Handgunners get supported with a General CA. For it they need to stay still all the time, so you either have to stay in your deployment zone or you can activate this strategy only turn 2. But for support resources invested it's the cheapest one, only 100 points and 1 CP. But if your Freeguild General get sniped, this strategy falls apart at your next Hero Phase. And investing in the backup General feels a bit too much.
Now the last variant is the max possible stacking of to hit and to wound buffs for Handgunners close range overwatch. You get 330 points of support units near, you keep them still, you spend a CP on a General CA, and now every volley of them hits like in a third example, on a 3+/2+. And, considering that you hit everyone who's charging you every time they charge... well, it's would be an almost unbreakable caste.
So, in my mind, the most optimal strategy would be to run 2x30 Handgunners with Hurricanum or General. First variant is very mobile, while second yields higher reward for less cost, if you manage to pull it off in time. Stacking them both yields much greater reward in overwatch department, but at the same time, it would be a immobile blob of 960 poins in the middle of the table. And yes, this is hard counter charge strategy, any decent shooting versus them, and Handgunners will start to drop like flies.
P.S. While all this is quite overpowered right now, I fear that Handgunners will become completely obsolete if their Warscroll overwatch will be limited to 1 per turn together with Unleash hell. They are extremely reliant on it. And, well, if GW fixes their overwatch to work almost as it used to, all this math and theorycrafting will be quite relevant.-
2
-
1
-
-
4 hours ago, yukishiro1 said:
The Cities FAQ managed to mess up Living City too, now it only gives Sylvaneth coalition units LIVING CITY, but not CITIES OF SIGMAR (lol). Making it unlike every other faction in the book, which give their coalition units both CITIES OF SIGMAR and the sub-faction keyword. Pretty obviously a typo given how everything else works, but just thought I'd point it out.
Yea, an obvious oversight for Living City and Tempest Eye, yet all is correct for Settler’s Gain and Har Kuron for some weird reason. Good thing that for now it only cancels Amplified Sorceries trait for Sylvaneth and some keyword buffs for CoS units from certain Stormcast warscrolls.
By the way, even without CoS keyword, Sylvaneth and Kharadon units still count for 1 in 4 rule for Stormcast, correct? -
1 hour ago, Zappgrot said:
No no. The problem is that you can only USE an command ability once (6.1) And then we thank gw for not clearing up what using means. !
Pretty much this. Some, including me, believe it's a full sequence, others believe it's getting any sort of effects from CA, so yea. And the warscroll overruling core rules part. FAQ within a month would be quite nice.
-
2 hours ago, zilberfrid said:
I think the intent is for a single one, which isn't counted towards the maximum of 1 otherwise. It'll take a FAQ to be sure, but it fits how the previous warscroll worked and simply feels right.
It could be argued in a number of different ways, but relying on the extremes would be setting yourself up for disappointment in the FAQ.
I agree about the intent here, but intent is a very flickle thing. Literally the next post after you thinks otherwise. So, while at friendly games you can come to the compromise, understanding rules RAW is important for now, until we get FAQ on this issue. And RAW it seems that Wascroll Unleash Hell is "broken" twice.
4 hours ago, Marcvs said:. Please note that the wording is the same as the Slayers effect from core battalion, which, being in the core rules cannot benefit from the hierarchical argument (warscrolls > core rules).
Sure, the wording is the same, and there is logic behind such a statement. The problem, it's just a conjecture and RAW does not stop warscroll rule from triggering over and over again, unlike the batalion rule. Warscroll says that you receive unleash hell under those conditions, so sure, you just receive it over and over. I am hoping though that FAQ will come soon.
-
Well, I guess there is nothing more than can be said about 6.1 rule, but what do people think about The Red King point? Does wascroll simply overrides core rules here due to warscroll rules having priority? Does that mean that even if we're wrong about 6.1 rule, Sisters and Handgunners still have unlimited overwatches?
-
1 hour ago, The Red King said:
But there is a direct contradiction between "...this unit can recieve the unleash hell command..." and "a unit can not receive more than 1 command in the same phase. In addition you cannot use the same command ability more than once in the same phase..."
It's not a direct contradiction but the blurb only says "if theres a contradiction" so it seems safe to say that using "real" unleash hell on any unit in the charge phase now means you cant use unleash hell again in the charge phase and the unit that received it can't receive any more commands BUT "loose until the last" allowing the unit that was charged to receive the unleash hell command ability now contradicts that rule and takes precedence.
As written, with the blurb on pg 61 in mind it seems that yes they can overwatch as many times as they get charged.
So, we actually have 2 rules going in our favour. And, untill FAQ drops, we can shoot anyone approaching as much as we want, haha. Just gotta use Unleash Hell first.
-
5 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
The problem is that the term "using a command" does not appear in mechanics bold in the core rules. I think there is a case to be made both for your reading and the one where other units still get to unleash hell in the same phase. Arguably, using a command ability means you go through the whole sequence of pay a point, issue the command, receive the command. Since Handgunners/Sisters/core battalions skip two of those steps, these cases would not qualify.
In my opinion, that would make the most sense from a design stand point, because otherwise these units and battalions are a lot less interesting.
Yep, in the past couple hours I've reach such conlusions as well thanks to a question thread I've created (see below). The thing is, it's even worse.
Right now, consensus on how to understand the rules RAW drifts to 2 conclusions:1) Free Unleash hell or CA Unleash hell can only be used once per phase, never together.2) Free Unleash hell can be used as many times as enemy units finish a charge near it, even when you in melee already (old overwatch restrictions have been removed), and you can also use UH CA on any unit on top.
So it's either a huge nerf, or it's a huge buff. Both are not good I'd say x)
Sort by date btw.
10 minutes ago, The Red King said:To copy my post from the other thread.
So what about the little rule blurb at the top of page 61 in the GHB. "If the effect of an ability [loose until the last] contradicts a core rule [Cannot use the same command ability twice, a unit can not receive more than 1 command ability per phase], then the effect takes precedence."
Seems pretty clear to me that if you issue "real" unleash hell first then activate loose until the last then the effect of loose until the last will take precedence over the concerns of using/recieving multiple command abilities. It is not however clear to me that would work if you did it in the other order but I cant imagine why it wouldnt other than poor writing.
To copy my edited post as well x)
"You know, I was also thinking about that, just was not sure that this applies here. There is no, well, direct contradiction, like "every time a unit finishes move within 3" or "this unit can receive Unleash Hell multiple times through the use of this ability". " -
16 minutes ago, The Red King said:
So what about the little rule blurb at the top of page 61 in the GHB. "If the effect of an ability [loose until the last] contradicts a core rule [Cannot use the same command ability twice, a unit can not receive more than 1 command ability per phase], then the effect takes precedence."
Seems pretty clear to me that if you issue "real" unleash hell first then activate loose until the last then the effect of loose until the last will take precedence over the concerns of using/recieving multiple command abilities. It is not however clear to me that would work if you did it in the other order but I cant imagine why it wouldnt other than poor writing.
EDIT: You know, I was also thinking about that, just was not sure that this applies here. There is no, well, direct contradiction, like "every time a unit finishes move within 3" or "this unit can receive Unleash Hell multiple times through the use of this ability".
-
So, I've sent GW a letter to aosfaq@gwplc.com . Now do we wait a month or half a year for a FAQ? x)
SpoilerGood day to you! First time writing such letter, as I'm relatively new to AoS, but it seems that as no one on forums can give a clear answer to this problem, I will have you ask directly.
So, Sisters of the Watch and Hadngunners overwatch got changed into this new rule. And this makes all of it very confusing. The rule, for reference:
‘If an enemy unit finishes a charge move within 3" of this unit, this unit can receive the Unleash Hell command without the command being issued and without a command point being spent.’
This rule is quite simular to the "free" Unleash Hell that you get from "Slayers" batalion ability, yet nowhere in the core rules is it possible to find answers as to how exactly does it work.
1) Can you use multiple "free" Unleash ****** from different units in the same phase? Or can you use Unleash Hell Command Ability after using a free overwatch on a different unit?2) Can you use "free" Unleash ****** on a same unit multiple times if this unit get charged by multiple enemies?
2) Can you use both free and the usual Unleash Hell on the same unit in the same phase?
Right now, consensus on how to understand the rules RAW drifts to 2 conclusions:1) Free Unleash hell or CA Unleash hell can only be used once per phase, never together.2) Free Unleash hell can be used as many times as enemy units finish a charge near it, even when you in melee already (old overwatch restrictions have been removed), and you can also use UH CA on any unit on top.
Both of them feel over the top. First variant is a huge nerf to handgunners and Sisters, which, unlike many other units, were previously balanced around having access to free overwatch. Now they would suffer both cost increase( +5 for handgunners, +20(!) for Sisters), -1 to hit on their warscroll overwatch, having an option to only use it once across multiple units per phase AND no way of combining it with a CA UH. This simply seems counterproductive, when an introduction to a universal overwatch CA across the game actually badly hurts and limits units with warscroll overwatch, instead of benefiting them in any way. Second option also seems not what.... you have intended. While it could explain such a steep increase to SotW cost, unlimited overwatch would definetly be too much to handle for most armies.As to why there is uncertainty about this, it all depends on uderstanding certain part of 6.1 of Core Rules - "you cannot use the same command ability more than once". What qualifies as "using" the command ability? Having effects from a CA apply your unit in any way? That's a variant number 1. But the whole 6.1 part is called "Using Command Abilities", and in it, using the command ability is a sequence if spending a CP, issuing, receiving and applying the CA. By that logic, warscroll Unleash Hell does not qualify as "using the command ability", so it's variant number 2. Oh, and by that logic, when you use a CA, but do not spend a command point for some reason, you also do not "use a command ability". Leading either to unability to use this CA at all or actually not "using" this this CA, but getting the benefits from it and still being able to use it once more with different units.
As for me personally, the best way to solve this situation would be to functionally return warscroll overwatch rules to the state they were in. You could even leave -1 to hit in warscroll overwatch, as long as it can be stacked with Unleash Hell CA. Clarification on the not spending CP issue would be quite appreciated as well.We will wait for your reply or for a FAQ with great anticipation, thank you for your time! -
13 minutes ago, SentinelGuy said:
I can kind of see why they might nerf SoW if they had concerns about mortal wound spam, but if that was the case they should also have smashed Lumineth Sentinels into the ground. I see no reason for nerfing handgunners really - were they that afraid of long guns?
Also, Sisters of the Watch do Mortal wounds on a 6 to WOUND. Meaning, overwatch -1 to hit does actually affect them in a quite noticeable way, unlike Sentinels. So yea, I cannot see logic here.
-
1
-
-
6 minutes ago, Beliman said:
My suggestion: never buy anything from GW just for the power-level and quality of their rules.
But I bought Sisters just because I wanted to play
Wood ElvesWanderers Archers with a semi competitive army qq-
2
-
-
1 minute ago, Howdyhedberg said:
Did anyone send in a question about this to the AoS team?
I asked about the Loreseeker unique or not. I don't know if gw look on these threads, so it would be good if someone sent the question!
Already on it, almost finished a balanced email for AoSFAQ@gwplc.com , will see if this will lead to anything.
8 minutes ago, SentinelGuy said:If they didn't intend for it to work exactly like a normal CA (with the exceptions that no point is spent and they don't need to be ordered), why did they bother changing the scroll in the first place?
May be to do a huge nerf to Handgunners and Sisters of the Watch out of the blue, may be just to standardize such rules across the warscrolls, who knows. Honestly, even intent here is not quite clear. And GW love to say that we should always follow rules RAW, but here even that is not quite possible.
-
23 minutes ago, Christopher Rowe said:
But doesn't the wording in the Sisters' ability specifically say that the unit has received the command? And Rule 6.0 says "a unit cannot receive more than 1 command in the same phase."
Did someone already make this argument and have it countered upthread? Reading this has thoroughly bamboozled me.
If you consider this a Command ability being received, then you can't use it more than once per turn in any way. If you considered Command ability only as something that goes through the "Spend CP, issue command, receive command, resolve effects" sequence, this is not a Command ability, thus it can be triggered every time the conditions are met, AND with Unleash Hell CA on top.
-
2 hours ago, Howdyhedberg said:
I feel you... But I have 20 sentinels in my Lumineth army... So I guess that makes up for it.
But honestly, they made them and the handgunners worse! They should boost their stats now I feel .. dmg 2 or rend 1 would make up for it!
Yes, the irony of units with overwatch getting much worse after changes, which gave everyone overwatch is not lost on me. Handgunners got +5 pts, Sisters got +20, their overwatch was made worse with -1 to hit AND being possible to use only once and only on one unit per phase, without a chance to stack with Unleash Hell CA. Which, if it was possible, would only bring their damage up to a long range overwatch anyway.
This is a nerfhammer out of nowhere. Sisters might survive it, but Handgunners were very dependant on their overwatch. Buuut, as I was writing it, I've had some interesting thoughts in this thread. Sort by date, yea, I should have made just a usual thread, not a question one.As of now, consensus goes like this:
1) Free Unleash hell or CA Unleash hell both can be only used once per phase, never together.
2) Free Unleash hell can be used as many times as enemy units finish a charge near it, even when you in melee already (they've removed old overwatch restrictions), and you can also use UH CA on any unit on top.Yeeeep, no middle ground here, it's not looking pretty either way. Oh, there is also a thought, that any CA, that can be used without a command point being spend, is potentially not a used CA, and it can be used again, lol. I think I've opened a huge can of worms... sorry...
1 hour ago, yukishiro1 said:Why do you think it isn't intended what they did to them? I mean yes, it makes no sense what they did to them. But that doesn't mean GW didn't mean to do it. GW does things that doesn't make sense all the time.
I can't see any way it wasn't intended. This wasn't some weird interaction that slipped through the cracks, this was a deliberate change to make these units worse at overwatch at the same time that they made everyone else better (because previously they couldn't do it at all).
Look up the question thread I've posted in this message. The more I try to understand the rules interation here, the more I see, that those "free" command abilities created a huge gap in the rules due to "using command abilities" being synonymous with "spend CP, issue, receive, resolve" sequence. If you're not following this sequence... this is not a command ability?
-
9 minutes ago, schwabbele said:
So if for eg 2 units charge, sister can do 2 times and you could still issue the command on another unit
Or on Sisters themselfs, as they are not really using this CA, are they, lol? Unless you count the 6.1 rule about receiving CA and "unit can receive the Unleash Hell" as talking about receiving a command ability. But then it means that Sisters used the Unleash Hell command ability and... damn, we've got quite a logical ouroboros in here.
-
1
-
-
5 minutes ago, schwabbele said:
For me this clearly reads as they can trigger multiple times, if multiple units finish within 3".
Oh god, lol, this... is also a possibility. There is no more "once per turn" restriction in place, even for a single unit, even when it's already in melee.
Huh... now this may explain why sisters went up 20 points... -
8 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:
The wording of Unleash Hell starts by saying “You can use this command after an enemy finishes a charge move” If you’re not using it, then it won’t trigger after a unit charges.
It seems clear that the spirit of the rule is that you only use it once per phase.
But at the same time, again, you're not using the CA sequence as 6.1, you're just "can receive the Unleash Hell command" conditionally.
As I've said before, the main ussue is what "use" at the end of 6.1 mean? If it's about use of CA effects, then you are right. If "use" is about using the Command ability sequence, as it was worded in 6.1, then I am right. But it seems to me, when the rule itself is called "Using the command ability", and then explains, how exactly it should be used... -
Just now, Marcvs said:
So every time you use the Lord Imperatant ability to issue a CA without a CP being spent you can use that CA again because you are skipping one step and hence not using it?
Well, it's only one step, and it's a rule that more like modifies a CA sequence instead of ignoring a part of it, but... may be?
But then it could mean that if you're not using a CA properly, so you can't use it at all? -
6 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:
And your warscroll ability allows you to skip over the issue and spend CP steps. But you’re still using it.
Are you using it though? You use the effect, but you're not "Using the command ability" as it formulated in the 6.1 rule. You skip 2 steps, that means you're not doing it properly and you are not using the 6.1 rule, you're not using a CA.
This line of thought is actually pretty interesting when it comes to a "do not spend a CP for this CA" rules btw. RAW it could possibly also mean unlimited uses of such CAs? Not sure. -
23 minutes ago, Warfiend said:
The way it's described means you can use unleash hell multiple times in a single turn (since the rules state you can only issue the command once, and the warscroll states it doesn't count as being issued as well as costing no CP). But you can't use it twice on the same unit because a unit can only receive it once a turn.Here's the problem, 6.1 in Core Book actually says "In addition, you cannot use the same command ability more than once in the same phase (even for different units). And, technically, you use the Unleash Hell ability on Sisters. The question here is what does "use the same command ability" mean here?...
Oh god, I was so stupid. Of course it means the CA sequence! The whole freaking rule is called Using Command Abilities! And how do you use them? You spend a CP, issue, receive, yada, yada. If you do not do that sequence, you DO NOT USE A CA.
The question about "Can you use both free and the usual Unleash Hell on the same unit in the same phase?" is actually still open though. The wording of the warscroll ability means that you "receive the CA", but at the same time you do not use the CA, so is it a real CA or not, lol?
-
5 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:
- The Handgunners get to Unleash Hell for free, but then nobody else gets to do it.
That would basically just make their ability a free, purpose-bound command point if they get charged and would just be a downgrade compared to how Stand and Shoot worked before. So let's hope this is not the intended new rule.
If you take the rules extremely RAW, this is the way to go. At the same time, this would be quite a big and an incredibly stupid nerf if this is the case. You get a universal ability, that you can use once, and your overwatch units can use it only once for free, instead of always having it no matter what AND without -1 to hit penalty. AND they are made more expensive at the same time. IF this the case, at the very least Handgunners and Sisters should cost 95 and 160 respectfully with such a huge nerf. They were heavily balanced around their overwatch after all.
As an owner of 40 commitioned painted Sisters of the Watch, I feel slightly depressed right now x)-
1
The Rumour Thread
in Age of Sigmar Discussions
Posted
Yep, it is a bad idea. The sooner GW realises their mistake, the better it will be for all of us. I hope that other factions sucess (like Lumineth) and as well as overall factions diverse popularity will kill flagship faction mindset. They can push Stormcast only as far as they sell. When they will finally see, that this is not a profitable strategy and making models for other races gives them more money, they will do it.